[House Hearing, 107 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE EDUCATION AND TREATMENT PROGRAMS IN PREVENTION OF CRIME ======================================================================= HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON CRIMINAL JUSTICE, DRUG POLICY AND HUMAN RESOURCES of the COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED SEVENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ JULY 29, 2002 __________ Serial No. 107-219 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Government Reform Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.gpo.gov/congress/house http://www.house.gov/reform U.S. GOVERNMENT PRINTING OFFICE WASHINGTON : 2003 87-384 PDF For Sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Printing Office Internet: bookstore.gpr.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2250 Mail: Stop SSOP, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM DAN BURTON, Indiana, Chairman BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York HENRY A. WAXMAN, California CONSTANCE A. MORELLA, Maryland TOM LANTOS, California CHRISTOPHER SHAYS, Connecticut MAJOR R. OWENS, New York ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida EDOLPHUS TOWNS, New York JOHN M. McHUGH, New York PAUL E. KANJORSKI, Pennsylvania STEPHEN HORN, California PATSY T. MINK, Hawaii JOHN L. MICA, Florida CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York THOMAS M. DAVIS, Virginia ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, Washington, MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana DC STEVEN C. LaTOURETTE, Ohio ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland BOB BARR, Georgia DENNIS J. KUCINICH, Ohio DAN MILLER, Florida ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois DOUG OSE, California DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois RON LEWIS, Kentucky JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia JIM TURNER, Texas TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine DAVE WELDON, Florida JANICE D. SCHAKOWSKY, Illinois CHRIS CANNON, Utah WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri ADAM H. PUTNAM, Florida DIANE E. WATSON, California C.L. ``BUTCH'' OTTER, Idaho STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts EDWARD L. SCHROCK, Virginia ------ JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont JOHN SULLIVAN, Oklahoma (Independent) Kevin Binger, Staff Director Daniel R. Moll, Deputy Staff Director James C. Wilson, Chief Counsel Robert A. Briggs, Chief Clerk Phil Schiliro, Minority Staff Director Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources MARK E. SOUDER, Indiana, Chairman BENJAMIN A. GILMAN, New York ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida ROD R. BLAGOJEVICH, Illinois JOHN L. MICA, Florida, BERNARD SANDERS, Vermont BOB BARR, Georgia DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois DAN MILLER, Florida JIM TURNER, Texas DOUG OSE, California THOMAS H. ALLEN, Maine JO ANN DAVIS, Virginia JANICE D. SCHAKOWKY, Illinois DAVE WELDON, Florida Ex Officio DAN BURTON, Indiana HENRY A. WAXMAN, California Christopher Donesa, Staff Director and Chief Counsel Nicolas P. Coleman, Professional Staff Member and Counsel Nicole Garrett, Clerk C O N T E N T S ---------- Page Hearing held on July 29, 2002.................................... 1 Statement of: Housler, Reverend Albert R., director of the Faces of Recovery................................................... 78 Howard, Constance, State representative, 32nd District, State of Illinois................................................ 33 Lieggi, Frank A., executive director, the Way Back Inn, Inc.; Bettie Foley, associate director, Haymarket Center; Bradley D. Olson, Center for Community Research, DePaul University; and Dennis Deer, president, Deer Re Hab Services........... 8 McDermott, Terrie, Cook County Sheriff's Office; Sharron D. Matthews, director of public policy and advocacy, Safety Foundation; Tim Whitney, special counsel, TASC, Inc.; Dorothy M. Reid, president, Oak Park NAACP Branch; and Jesus Reyes, director, social services, Circuit Court of Cook County................................................ 49 Letters, statements, etc., submitted for the record by: Deer, Dennis, president, Deer Re Hab Services, prepared statement of............................................... 27 Foley, Bettie, associate director, Haymarket Center, prepared statement of............................................... 15 Howard, Constance, State representative, 32nd District, State of Illinois, prepared statement of......................... 35 Lieggi, Frank A., executive director, the Way Back Inn, Inc., prepared statement of...................................... 9 Matthews, Sharron D., director of public policy and advocacy, Safety Foundation, prepared statement of................... 57 McDermott, Terrie, Cook County Sheriff's Office, prepared statement of............................................... 52 Olson, Bradley D., Center for Community Research, DePaul University, prepared statement of.......................... 20 Reid, Dorothy M., president, Oak Park NAACP Branch, prepared statement of............................................... 67 Reyes, Jesus, director, social services, Circuit Court of Cook County, prepared statement of......................... 73 Souder, Hon. Mark E., a Representative in Congress from the State of Indiana, prepared statement of.................... 3 Whitney, Tim, special counsel, TASC, Inc., prepared statement of......................................................... 63 THE EFFECTIVENESS OF SUBSTANCE ABUSE EDUCATION AND TREATMENT PROGRAMS IN PREVENTION OF CRIME ---------- MONDAY, JULY 29, 2002 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources, Committee on Government Reform, Chicago, IL. The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 10:05 a.m., at Representative Danny Davis' District Office, 3333 West Arthington Street, Suite 130, Chicago, IL, Hon. Mark E. Souder (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Present: Representatives Souder and Davis. Staff present: Nicolas P. Coleman, professional staff member and counsel; Nicole Garrett, and Conn Carroll, clerks; and Christopher Donesa, staff director and chief counsel. Mr. Souder. We are going to go ahead and get started. If you can start taking your seats, and the subcommittee will come to order. Good morning, and thank you all for coming. It's a great pleasure to be here in Chicago today at the invitation of Congressman Danny Davis, a member of our Subcommittee on Criminal Justice, Drug Policy and Human Resources. Drug treatment and substance abuse education are two of the most important weapons we have in reducing drug addiction and the death, and the death, crime and misery it creates. Two of the three main goals set forth in the National Drug Control Strategy announced earlier this year by President Bush are related to prevention and treatment. Stopping use before it starts, through education and community action, through helping America's drug users by getting treatment resources where they are needed. Today's hearing focuses on these two goals. First, we will look at substance abuse prevention. In announcing the strategy, the President said, ``It is important for Americans and American families to understand this: that the best way to affect supply, is to reduce demand for drugs, to convince our children that the use of drugs is destructive in their lives.'' The President requested approximately $900 million for fiscal year 2003 for the Federal Government's primary drug abuse education programs. The Safe and Drug-Free School Programs, the Drug-Free Communities Program, and the National Youth Anti-Drug Media Campaign and Parent Drug Corps programs. Although, there is broad support for the concept of substance abuse prevention through education, disagreements remain on how best to pursue that strategy. Not every program is as effective as some others. Many are more effective if carried out by local communities, but some may require Federal supervision and leadership. Second, we will look at drug treatment. Drug treatment represents a growing, but sometimes controversial strategy of reducing drug-related crime and health problems. The number of Federal dollars appropriated for drug treatment has steadily climbed over the past 25 years, from $120 million in 1969, to $1.1 billion in 1974, to about $3.2 billion in the year 2000. This represents about 20 percent of our total Federal drug control budget. The National Institute on Drug Abuse [NIDA] estimates that drug treatment reduces use by about 40 to 60 percent, and significantly decreases criminal activity after treatment. While drug treatment has proved effective in many cases, many questions about how to measure treatment success remain. Again, there are significant differences in the success rates of various programs, and what works in one community may not work as well in another. This hearing gives those of us in Congress an opportunity to hear from people involved in substance abuse prevention and treatment on the front lines in our local communities. In crafting national policies to reduce drug abuse and related problems, we need to learn first-hand what works and what doesn't. I am, therefore, very pleased to welcome our witnesses today, each of whom has substantial experience in these areas. For our first panel we will be joined by Dr. Frank Lieggi, executive director of the Way Back Inn; Ms. Bettie Foley, associate director of Haymarket Center; Mr. Brad Olsen of the Center for Community Research at DePaul University, and Mr. Dennis Deer, president of Deer Re Hab Services. Also on the first panel, we'll have Assembly Woman Constance Howard. For our second panel, we will be joined by the Reverend Albert R. Housler, of Faces of Recovery, Gateway Foundation, Inc., Mr. Kevin Downey, director of operations at TASC, Ms. Dorothy Reid, president of the Oak Park NAACP Branch, and Mr. Jesus Reyes, director of social services at the Circuit Court of Cook County and Terrie McDermott of the Cook County Sheriff's Office. We welcome you all and look forward to your testimony on these important issues. At this point, I'd like to turn this over to my friend and colleague and Congressman Danny Davis. [The prepared statement of Hon. Mark E. Souder follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.001 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.002 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.003 Mr. Davis. Thank you very much Mr. Chairman. And first of all, let me commend you and representative, Elijah Cummings, who is the ranking member of this committee for the tremendous leadership that you have both shown as you have traveled throughout the country gathering information, listening to citizens, trying to find out how we can more effectively deal with the whole question of drug use, abuse, and its relationship to crime in our country. I am actually amazed, and must express tremendous appreciation, as I have observed the way that on almost every issue that comes up, every bill that we have to deal with someway or another, you try and find a way to make sure you got the interest of this committee reflected in that legislation. Most recently, I was watching, as we debated homeland security, and as we developed a new relationship for many agencies and organizations throughout the country as we reorganize the governments, and every time I look up, there would be Mark Souder, right there putting in, let's make sure that we understand the role that drugs play. Let's make sure that we try and intercept. Let's try and make sure that we try and keep those out that should not be coming in. Let's make sure that we have treatment for those individuals that are in need of it. And my mother always told us, you give honor where honor is due. And not withstanding partisan politics and different sides of the aisle and that kind of stuff, I really think you do a great job as chairman of the subcommittee and we are delighted to welcome you to Chicago. I also want to thank all of those who have been taking time from whatever it is that you might have been doing, or would have been doing at this moment, to come and testify. Many people don't give great credence to this whole concept of what democracy really means. To me, democracy means that every member of a free and democratic society has some responsibility for determining what that society is. And that when we don't do that, we actually abdicate our citizenship responsibilities. If we simply leave it up to somebody else to determine what our policies and practices are, then it means that we have not really understood what it means to live in America. And so when you come and testify, you are helping those of us who might have the ultimate in terms of the responsibility to decide, but we decide, hopefully, based on what it is that you have told us, what it is that you have learned from your professionalism in an area. What it is that you have learned from living whatever the experiences are that you bring to a hearing, or that you give to us. So, I thank you. Also, I would just mention the fact that I want to thank TASC because I read this information every time I get a chance. But, just if we look at our own area, Cook County, where since 1984 the drug arrest rate in Cook County has tripled to over 80,000 persons per year. By 1994, 1 out every 1,000 people in Cook County had been arrested for drug-related offenses. Now, the numbers, approximately 1 out of every 700, up to 75 percent of both male and female arrestees in Chicago test positive for drug use, the average daily population the Cook County jail has been above 10,000 since 1995. Drug cases comprise more than 50 percent of all felonies charged in Cook County. And now, there are more drug felonies charged than total felonies charged in any year before 1998. And so just looking at those figures that TASC has put together, I mean you can see that there is probably no area of the country that has more of a need, or more of a problem than what we experience here in Chicago and in Cook County. And so, this hearing is indeed a welcome sight; and, Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to have the opportunity to present written testimony and a written statement for the record. Mr. Souder. Thank you, distinguished Member from Chicago. Before proceeding, I would like to take care of a couple procedural matters first. I ask unanimous consent that all Members have 5 legislative days to submit written statements and questions for the hearing record. That any answers to those written questions provided by the witnesses also be included into the record. No objection. So ordered. Second, I ask unanimous consent, all exhibits, documents and other materials referred to by Members and the witnesses may be included in the hearing record. And that all Members may be permitted to revise and extend their remarks. No objections. So ordered. Now, if the first panel would come forth. Ms. Howard is on the end here; Dr. Lieggi, Ms. Foley, Dr. Olson, and Mr. Deer. And if you will remain standing. As an oversight committee, it is our standard practice to ask all of our witnesses to testify under oath. [Witnesses sworn.] Mr. Souder. Let the record show that the witnesses have each answered in the affirmative. The role of the subcommittee in which we serve is to look at the holistic picture of the Federal Government, we have appropriating committees, we have authorizing committees, and our job is to see that laws are being executed, and the problems are being tackled the way the Congress intended. And we do hearing promotions, and we try to get, when possible, into key cities around the country to learn what's actually happening at the grassroot, and see what things that we can do on a daily basis. Now, we are unusual because we also have the authorizing, in other words, we set the policy, and next year we are re- doing the Office of National Drug Control Policy, and the things that go under that, including the National Media Campaign, Committee on Drug Initiatives, and so we both oversee and write the programming for that office. So, we appreciate you each taking the time today. And we appreciate Congressman Davis's leadership on the committee and the importance of Chicago and the national mix. Sometimes it seems like New York and L.A. get all of the attention, we in the Midwest don't get any. It is helpful to have a speaker from this region, too, who is helping with Congressman Davis to make sure Chicago gets represented. So, we will start out first with Dr. Lieggi. Mr. Davis. Mr. Chairman, could I just take a moment to acknowledge the presence of Alderwoman Emma Mitts, who has joined us, a member of the Chicago City Council from the 37th Ward. Alderman Mitts, we are delighted to have you. Ms. Mitts. Thank you. Mr. Souder. Thank you for being here. Ms. Mitts. You're welcome. Mr. Souder. Dr. Lieggi. STATEMENTS OF FRANK A. LIEGGI, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, THE WAY BACK INN, INC.; BETTIE FOLEY, ASSOCIATE DIRECTOR, HAYMARKET CENTER; BRADLEY D. OLSON, CENTER FOR COMMUNITY RESEARCH, DEPAUL UNIVERSITY; AND DENNIS DEER, PRESIDENT DEER RE HAB SERVICES Mr. Lieggi. In my mind there is no doubt that treatment is a deterrent to crime for substance abuse patients. My interest in what I wrote about was basically my interest in speaking things primarily on how to, if you will, tweak out the existing drug court system, and how it works with treatment providers in our area. And the Way Back Inn is a facility that pushed us back a little bit, we have been for 27 years, and we serve both men and women who are adults, and we have been working closely with the drug court for the district drug court. The drug court has been a fantastic thing. However, their numbers seem to reflect poor outcomes as far--over the last couple years, 300 came before the drug court and 19 had graduated the drug court. And I think that's my analysis of what's going on with that, is that there needs to be some changes that may need to be made, and one of those changes, that if a judge is going to have drug court, one of my recommendations would be that they have certification in substance abuse treatment. They are making determinations right there in front of the client, and although that they do have some professionals with them, they are the ones that are making the choice about how long a client is going into treatment, and generally those lengths of times are short. We also believe at The Way Back Inn that it may be helpful for the community provider to not only be present in the drug court to assess and take the clients back with them, but also to help make that decision about whether a client needs to be in, and that decision should come from the provider, the community provider, and not fall into a legal type of decision that is made. I think with that would be quite more effective in graduating more clients than 19 of the 300 that we have. For instance, if a client is committed to 90 days at our facility, The Way Back Inn, which is a residential extended care facility, on the 91st day they are typically gone, and that we would not say 90 days. We would make a determination between 3 and 6 months of treatment. Most of the clients that come before the drug court report have a significant drug history, and outpatient counseling typically isn't the best, or the most appropriate form, but that seems to be where a lot of clients get referred to, even though, despite they have a long history of substance abuse treatment in the past. So we think long-term treatment is what's proven for clients who have legal problems as well as substance abuse histories, and we would like to see more long-term treatment and decisions about length of stay come from the community providers, rather than the judge. Mr. Souder. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Lieggi follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.004 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.005 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.006 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.007 Mr. Souder. We will take each of your testimony, and then come back for questions of each one of you. The green lights, and yellow, and you won't be shot if you hit the red, but we do try to stick to our 5-minute rule. And your full statements will be in the record, and then we'll ask questions in followup to your testimony. Ms. Foley. Ms. Foley. Thank you, Chairman Souder, and Congressman Danny Davis for providing me the opportunity to testify before your subcommittee this morning. My name is Bettie Foley, and I serve as associate director of Haymarket Center, a comprehensive substance abuse treatment and related services facility located on the near westside of Chicago. Founded in 1975 by Monsignor Ignatius McDermott, to whom we fondly refer to as Father Mac. Haymarket currently offers integrated treatment services to an average of 13,000 clients annually, making us the largest drug treatment abuse center in the city of Chicago, and the third largest in the State of Illinois. For over 25 years, we have remained committed to providing each of our clients with the maximum chance for sustained recovery from addiction so that they may become productive members of society. We achieve this goal by offering a continuum of care to each Haymarket client. This continuum is the integration of drug abuse prevention and treatment, health services, including HIV/AIDS screening and prevention, day care, parent training, vocational education, job placement, and screening for domestic violence, and gambling addiction. We strongly believe that a treatment program should not only include recovery from substance abuse, but it also should go to the next step, in providing substance abusers with the tools to re-enter the world of independence. One of our signature programs, the Alternative to Incarceration program offers non-violent drug offenders who have accepted responsibility for their alcohol and/or drug-abusing behavior, a disciplined, yet supportive environment for which they can re-enter the society at a more productive level. Haymarket's ATI program was originally established through a collaboration between Haymarket Center and the Cook County Sheriff's Office in 1993 to improve community safety for the residents of the State of Illinois. Developed cooperatively with the Circuit Court including the Cook County judges as well as the Social Service Department, and the Sheriff's Department to assure program effectiveness and adherence to judicial protocol. ATI is a sentencing option for the judges. It mandates residential substance abuse treatment in a confined environment and may be utilized in lieu of, or in combination with, incarceration. Since 1998, a grant from the Bureau of Justice Assistance [BJA] has provided funding to enable the ATI program to provide its array of services to all offenders despite their lack of income and subsequent inability to pay. Haymarket's ATI serves as a sentencing option for multiple Driving Under the Influence [DUI], Driving Under the Influence of Drugs [DUID], and other non-violent offenders who have been charged with, and/or convicted of other alcohol or drug-related offenses. The length of stay for confinement is in increments of 7 days, as per court order. During residential confinement, the program provides group therapy, individual counseling and treatment planning, alcohol and drug testing, and community service performed under the supervision of the Cook County Sheriff's Work Alternative Program. After confinement is completed, ATI's clients are offered the opportunity to enter into a continued care/aftercare outpatient treatment regimen for 6 to 18 months. This regimen includes monitoring adherence to abstinence, and indicators for sincerity in commitment to positive lifestyle change. Additional wrap-around services, which vary and depend on the identified needs of the individual, include English-as-a-second language, literacy, GED classes, vocational training and employment services. Each offender's compliance to follow through on recommended aftercare programs is monitored by their assigned case manager, a designated court monitor or probation officer, and through the Illinois Secretary of State's Office due to the severity of most DUI/DUID offenses. All of these individuals oversee the offender's compliance to treatment recommendations. Since program startup, ATI served in excess of 3,000 non- violent alcohol/drug related offenders in a highly regimented and corrections formatted approach; 420 clients have been a part of the BJA demonstration with more than half of them also engaged in the aftercare program. Over 90 percent successfully complete their ATI confinement; 80 percent of aftercare clients successfully completed, or are currently compliant with, their aftercare program. Studies have found that non-violent drug offenders are much less likely to commit new crimes if they are given treatment through special drug courts rather than merely sent to prison. In conjunction with the BJA, Haymarket is working with the Institute on Crime, Justice and Corrections at the George Washington University in Washington, DC, to complete a comprehensive process and impact evaluation. Haymarket is also committed to undertaking a longitudinal study of the effectiveness of the program on overall reduction in recidivism and the impact to overall compliance and completion rates with low-income offenders, as opposed to those required to pay for their continuum confinement and treatment. Haymarket's preliminary figures are indicative of the significant impact in the amelioration of addiction and addictive behaviors. In closing, Haymarket's ultimate goal is to effectively treat substance abusers in the criminal justice system, such that recidivism is reduced and cost savings are realized. Haymarket strongly believes that if more funds were spent on treatment as an alternative to incarceration, not only would substance abuse rates decline, but there would also be a decline in criminal activity and arrests. In addition, communities would greatly benefit from the savings achieved through lower rates of homelessness and high-risk sexual behavior and increased rates of employment and improved health status. We are pleased that Haymarket Center's Alternative to Incarceration Program may serve as a model program for the Nation. Thank you for allowing me to speak before your committee. And I would be happy to answer any questions. Mr. Souder. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Foley follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.008 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.009 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.010 Mr. Souder. Dr. Olson. Mr. Olson. Hi, my name is Brad Olson, and I'm from DePaul University, and the Research Oxford House. Basically, I wanted to talk about some of the problems I see with the present day substance use and its effect on crime. In my statement, I give the estimate of $109 billion that it costs the country annually for substance use; and 58 percent of that is attributed to crime. However, those are probably underestimates because if we just take one crime, for instance, domestic violence, The Center For Disease Control and The National Institute of Justice estimates that 1.5 million a year are either victims of intimate partner rape or physical assault. One fifth of the intimate partner rapes are reported. One quarter of the physical assaults are reported. So, many domestic violence being just one of the many crimes attributed to substance abuse, at least partially, we have extreme underestimates of the cost, and more importantly, the emotional and physical harm it's caused. I don't think there is any question that drugs lead to crime. Although, scientifically, it's difficult to test. We know that some people will commit crimes whether they do drugs or not. But some people who take drugs will--would not commit crimes ordinarily, would end up committing crimes. Drugs lead to impulsivity or decisionmaking, a disregard for social norms puts people in desperate situations, and there is no question that it contributes to crime. Treatment helps. Some of the best research on treatment reducing crime is research on in-prison therapeutic communities that show random sign studies, that show at least 6 months after treatment there is a dramatic reduction in recidivism and prisoners were not returning back to prison. Also, therapeutic communities in aftercare, after someone has been incarcerated, is highly effective. And diversion programs out in the community which can often be secured, can often be cost-effective, allows the person to be out in the community where they can eventually be any way, and those have been found to be as effective as the in-prison therapeutic communities. In terms of prevention, getting treatment for someone before they commit a crime, or when they first committed low- level crimes, it is absolutely necessary, and it is very difficult to get an individual who is going to commit a crime or is using substances to go into treatment. Usually they go into treatment, or a lot of times, when they are absolutely in their worst situation, either when they have committed a crime, or they are about to, and many are turned away from treatment when they have the opportunity to be helped. There is some research showing some significant health disparities. Caucasian Americans are much more likely to get treatment when they need it, than aftercare. And it is one thing when this is a health issue, it's another thing when substance abuse leads to crime and higher rates in certain groups. There are many great programs out there. The initiative Proposition 36 in California, isn't perfect, but it's a promising way to reduce crime and save the State money, and in many ways, be a more humane program. And so far, California, with Proposition 36, has been meeting many of its projective goals, although I think it is important for outsiders to really study the data a lot more closely, find out what parts are effective, what parts have been funded, how it should be modified. When it comes to treatment, as been stated earlier, the longer people stay in treatment, the better. Of course, that's more expensive to keep people in treatment longer. So we need some innovative cost-effective programs for individuals who abuse substances. There needs to be a focus on more resources, employment, housing, medical. There needs to be individuals who are being brought into the appropriate type of treatment for their stage of recovery, for their position in stages of change. I think one of the most effective things that can be done is really to take all treatment centers and correctional agencies and really create better working station systems where there is more communication. We need more integration with mutual help groups that are cost-effective: Analon, who works with the families; Oxford House, completely self-run residential program for individuals who can be on electronic monitoring and they get social support, self-government, they pay for the program, they pay for their rent, and so it's fair. So I think we need a lot of different treatments and we need the demand out there. Thank you. Mr. Souder. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Olson follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.011 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.012 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.013 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.014 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.015 Mr. Souder. Mr. Deer. Mr. Deer. Good morning, my name is Dennis Deer, president of Deer Rehabilitation Services, also the chairman of the Seventh Congressional District and Task Force, as well as a community resident. Substance abuse education and treatment programs are imperative in efforts for crime reduction. For example, the community in which this hearing is being held today is known as North Lawndale. In this community alone, 70 percent of men between the ages of 18 and 45 are ex-offenders, and the number of women offenders has tripled since 1990. A large percentage of the individuals arrested were arrested on drug-related charges, yet there continues to be a service gap in the accessibility of substance abuse treatment services for those individuals in need of such services. I am a proponent of the premise that education is not neutral. It's either liberating or oppressing. An individual can receive education that either puts them into bondage, or education that sets them free. Many individuals who become a by-product of the criminal justice system have, in many cases, received oppressive education. That is, education that has led them to make choices that are not conducive to society rules. This position is evident according to a study done by the Bureau of Justice Statistics. In this study, it was found that 71 percent of women reported substance abuse problems had no history of prior treatment. In essence, these women had not received the liberating education that comes with drug- treatment process. Instead, their minds had been subject only to the drug education of the streets. That is, ``Get your high on,'' in other words, let's get high. And ``Drugs do the body good,'' in other words, this will make you feel good. Last week I sat and talked with a group of women at the Sheriff's Department of Women Justice Services, where I serve as a consultant. The women who are now on the right track to establishing systemic change in their lives. The meeting that I attended was the second meeting of the Department Ex- Incarcerated Alumni Association. The most interesting part of this meeting was hearing the women dialog amongst each other. One woman asked another woman, ``Why is it that individuals who are incarcerated serve their time and then leave the institution just to go back to the streets to do the same thing over again?'' Interestingly enough, the woman responded and said, ``I can only speak for myself. Incarceration is punishment, not education. You sit in your cell thinking about all that you have done and how you would like to change, but there is no one to show you how to change. No one will teach you how to change. So upon release, you go back and do what you know how to do, even if you don't want to do. It's what you know.'' It is my belief that substance abuse education and treatment are very effective in preventing crime. On the contrary, as mentioned earlier, the problem is that there is a large service gap as it relates to the number of substance abuse education and treatment programs available. Therefore, many individuals that would like to access these particular services are in many cases turned away. Many are even mandated by the Illinois Department of Correction and Treatment Services as a condition of their release. But, unable to access such services, if an individual cannot ascertain the liberating education and treatment needed to transform their lives, then the alternative is to go back to doing what they used to do. At Deer Rehabilitation Services, it is our belief that education is essential to the soul, yet knowledge is not power. The belief that knowledge is power is the biggest lie that was ever told. Knowledge is potential power. It becomes power when one applies the knowledge that he or she has ascertained in his or her life. But one must first have access to knowledge in order to gain the potential to change. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Mr. Deer follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.016 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.017 Mr. Souder. Well, thank you each for your testimony. Our first--I should have, also because we have a really strong Illinois contingent in our committee, noted that Congresswoman Schakowsky has been very active on this committee, and on international drug issues, as well as Chicago regional issues. And my friend Rod Blagojevich, has been, as well. In fact, he and I were in South America together a few years ago in Colombia and Peru, and looking at some of the source countries where the cocaine and heroine come in. That is not necessarily endorsement of his campaign for Governor, he and I are good friends, and we had a good discussion about his campaign on Thursday, and he did a great job. I want to thank, once again, not only those on the panel, but those here in attendance for kind of doing God's work in the streets, and really trying to reach people, in addition to providing us with the testimony today. It is important that we get out and hear as much as possible, and say as much as possible as what goes on in areas outside of our own area. Through Congressman Davis and Congressman Cummings, we did do--we were made even more aware of this disparity question and treatment and had a hearing in Washington on that very subject. Because there is an increasing concern, that particularly in treatment programs, it is becoming cost-defined as opposed to needs-defined. And trying to figure out how to address that, and also the length of treatment, and obviously there have been those concerns and sentencing, as well, and how to reach those. I wanted to ask, just for further clarification, Mr. Deer, could you explain a little bit what your organization does, regarding the offenders? Mr. Deer. Yes, basically what we do is provide psychological services and treatment programs for ex-offenders as it relates to those individuals that are recovering substance abuse users. But, also, those individuals who are re- entering society from the Department of Corrections, we try to help provide a smooth transition. But, really what we focus on is the change of the mind set. Mr. Souder. So, how would--What would be some examples of-- Do you just go around the different organizations of different things? Do they come into a center, and it's a series of programs, what would be---- Mr. Deer. What we do is connect up with larger organizations, like for instance, right now, the majority of our work is done with the North Lawndale Employment Network and individuals who are ex-offenders actually, who are released from the Department of Corrections come through a community service delivery system. And what we do is take them through an approach which we call right thinking. It isn't that particular approach. We focus on the mind set that causes them to make some of the choices that they've made in the past. In addition to that, we use street language, because many of these individuals, you know, you can't use the language that we probably talk every day. We have to talk--For instance, we use ``tip,'' and tip is basically known as a street term, for where drug sales are conducted. We use ``gel packets'' because that's what they sell on the streets. And so, basically, we use what we call replacement therapy. And then that particular therapy, we go in and help the individual to re-program to thinking that what has caused them to make some of the irresponsible choices that they've made in the past. In addition, that individual has drug drop-ins on a random basis. And if they need treatment, then we connect up with a larger organization such as Gateway, Haymarket Center, so forth, and so on, to help them ascertain that treatment that they need. Mr. Souder. I guess I'll jump over to Dr. Lieggi, if you can get the microphone over there. You made some fairly serious comments about the drug court. Somebody who has been a strong supporter of drug courts, and I'm wondering, for example, I represent Northeast Indiana, and there we have had a much higher success rate in the drug courts. Do you believe that the primary problem there is the length of treatment or what; 19 of 300, is that what you said? Mr. Lieggi. Yeah, that was over the last couple of years. You know, in mine as being the Fourth District, and our facilities are primarily in Maywood and Cook County, than the local area over there. We are seeing a great deal of clients coming to us without a real clear understanding of what treatment, or what--why the sentence of going to The Way Back Inn, as opposed to jail time, about the facility, about what it is they need to expect out of The Way Back. And basically, what happens is it seems to be more of a time. You have to be here for this period of time, and we like to make that determination, because in most cases, longer-term treatment is required. And our hands are tied then, you know, because the internal clock for the client is on 90 days from day 1. You know, they are already thinking that they are going to be leaving at some point. The problems that I am seeing are multifaceted problems. One of them is that I don't know if the client, themselves, are educated, exactly what to expect from this type of treatment until they get to us. And we tell them, and they're shocked. Or, the fact that somebody else is making a determination by exactly how long, to the day that they need to be there, which sets up kind of a dissidence for us and the client in terms of---- Mr. Souder. Is that predominately driven by the cost of or is the length of time that the person is under supervision in the drug court program. Mr. Lieggi. The latter. Mr. Souder. The latter. Let me see what's the--Do you work for the drug court? Ms. Culler. Actually, I work for Cook County Jail, and in further addition---- Mr. Souder. If I want to ask a question, I need you to state your name. Will you come to the mic and state your name, I have to swear you in, please. [Witness sworn.] Mr. Souder. Will you state your name clearly for the record. Ms. Culler. My name is Crystal Culler. I'm a public health educator at Cook County Jail. And what I do is teach healthy lifestyles, healthy living. Kind of like what he was talking about, changing people's thinking. In addition to what Dr. Lieggi was talking about, you kept wanting to know if it was the amount of time. He mentioned in his statement, I think also it's the length of cohesiveness between the treatment professionals and the court system itself. In somewhere that is not cohesive. It is not getting together and clients are falling in between and during that time, they're getting high. Mr. Souder. Thank you. Mr. Davis. Mr. Davis. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank each one of the witnesses for their testimony. I also would like to just acknowledge the presence of Ms. Adrienne Jones, who is assistant to, what I consider to be the best U.S. Senate in the country. To Senator Dick Durbin. Ms. Jones, we are delighted that you're here. Thank you so much for coming. I also would like to acknowledge the presence of Mr. Ralph Grayson, who is the Deputy Director of Illinois Department of Corrections. Ralph, thank you so much for being here. Listening to the testimony, the question that sort of kept running through my mind, is, what happens to the individuals after they go through interaction? Are you finding that people are able to go back to work, or to get employment, and leave anything approximating what we call normal lives. And all of you can respond. Mr. Lieggi. Yes, the program at The Way Back Inn is designed that they are employed after 2 weeks when they come to us. And that's difficult for some clients with criminal backgrounds, but we have participating businesses in our area, will hire our guys or women. And, you know, they are not career jobs, but they're still jobs that pay decent wages, and allow a client to buildup a resume. We also do financial planning and start savings accounts for each client. And there is a certain amount of money that goes into that from each check. So, at the end of the 6-months, which is typically how long the length of stay is, they have, you know, some savings, and they have a work history, and the most--the fastest program that we have, we have outpatient, we have extended residential care for 6 months. But our fastest is transitional housing. And, you know, you can graduate a client and give him a coin, and a little ceremony, and they go back to where they came from, and usually that triggers use, because of all the associations, abuse in their home. Our fastest growing thing is the transitional housing. It allows them to keep working, keep saving and live in a drug-free environment. And I think that there is a continuum, care that needs to happen for these clients to successfully become self-sufficient and that is, you know, long-term treatment, and transitional housing, and when they are in transitional housing, they step down to outpatient. Typically, what we have in this country is the opposite. You start off an outpatient, if you don't make it, and you still live, you get to go to a higher level of care. You know, well, that model to me, it might be it doesn't work. The opposite model of providing them with places and outpatient aspect of the treatment. This is especially important for the drug court clients that we have. They need to be able to be self- sufficient or they'll never make it. Ms. Foley. Although I am Associate Director of Haymarket Center, I think it's also important for me to note that I was on the committee that went to New York and helped receive the training for the three drug courts in Cook County. I have worked very closely and integrally with the drug courts in Cook County. Haymarket also serves a number of the drug court offenders. In addition to the fact that I have served for a number of years with the Cook County Sheriff's Female Advisory Council, so I'm quite vested with women services also in the State of Illinois. I think one of the things that Haymarket has had to offer that has helped make the successes of its program, is the long-term treatment. The opportunity that offers so many levels of care, whether it's detoxification, residential services, recovery homes, outpatient services, and in multiple locations, so that they can stay close to the local communities in which our offender/client reside. The other thing, which I have brought to the attention both to the State, local, and Federal level on a number of occasions, is that the largest percentage of our criminal justice population that we serve, are DUI offenders, multiple DUI offenders. And one of the things that supports us as a treatment provider is the oversight of the Secretary of State's Office, as we try to monitor through the court system the individual's commitment to change. Whether it's getting education, whether it's vocational training, employment, etc. It is the backing of the Secretary of State's Office to support any type of services that had been clinically recommended. And I think this is one of the shortcomings of the court system over all, which goes back to what you're talking about, which is giving them a number of days and then it's over. Where, with the Secretary of State oversight, we're talking years. So, that long-term support services, long-term oversight, I think does play a major factor in this. Mr. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Olson. I think someone who is coming from the correctional system out into the community needs to have appropriate social support. The patterns of family enabling, the patterns of past friends who use, physical setting. All of those things need to be changed, along with the individual. There needs to be groups like Al-Anon, and community-based organizations that are working with the family. I think, in many cases, it's ideal for the recovering individual coming out of the correctional system to get into a program where they are creating new social networks for people who are not using. And as much as they interact with the family, and as much as they should be where their home is, a recovery setting like Oxford House, where it's all self-run and everyone makes democratic decisions. The whole house makes democratic decisions. People can stay there for the rest of their lives. It's ideal because they are creating social networks. Mr. Deer. And my answer to that question is, yes. As hard as it is to ascertain employment for individuals who have been incarcerated, client success is contingent on first, who they're choosing to change for. Many individuals are choosing to go through the treatment process simply because the judge told them to go through the treatment process. If they're choosing not to change for themselves, then that change may last for a little while, but in the long haul, failure is inevitable. The second thing is, environment; many individuals who are attempting to change, don't have a healthy living environment to go home to. Individuals in many cases who are trying to get off the drugs go home to a situation where their father is using, where their mother is using, where, in many cases, their children are using, and that's why I think it's really important that we move forward to pass the Public Safety Ex-Offender Self-Sufficiency Act which would allow for some housing for individuals that are in these particular situations, because I can try to change as much as I want to, but if a person is in my home, who is doing the same thing that I'm trying to get away from, sooner or later, I'm going to go back to the same old stuff all over again. Mr. Davis. Thank you all. And I thank you, Dennis, because I don't have to make that point. I think you just made it, and I thank you. Mr. Souder. We have been joined by Assembly Member Constance Howard. I appreciate you coming this morning, and if you would like to present an opening statement, we will take your opening statement at this point, then we will do some more questions. Oh, that's right, I have to swear you in, according to our House rules. [Witness sworn.] Mr. Souder. Let the record show the witness responded in the affirmative. It is part of our committee rules that we have to do that with each witness. Ms. Howard. I understand. Mr. Souder. Thank you. STATEMENT OF CONSTANCE HOWARD, STATE REPRESENTATIVE, 32ND DISTRICT, STATE OF ILLINOIS Ms. Howard. And good morning, gentlemen. I am privileged to testify before you today; and, Honorable Chairman Souder, it is indeed a pleasure to be here, and I'd like to thank Congressman Davis for extending me the invitation to be able to address this extremely important issue. We have only to look at our local newspaper headlines to know that drug-related crime and substance abuse are on the rise in our Nation. In recent years, both Federal and State government leaders have passed a number of laws instituting more vigorous sentencing guidelines, and longer terms of incarceration. Such actions have caused dramatic increase, in the number of non-violent drug-related offenders in the prison operation. Given this unanticipated impact, we are holding drug- education programs aimed at preventing drug experimenting and reducing people's penchant for addiction may be a more logical and cost-effective approach. A crucial distinction must be made between the addict and casual user who are arrested on minor possession charges, and the dealers, pushers and kingpins, who distribute massive amounts of illegal substances, and an all- coordinated distribution network. According to the figures from the Illinois Department of Corrections, it is one-half of all of those incarcerations in this State are related to non-violent drug offenses. The question is, ``Should an effective anti-drug strategy treat non-violent drug abusers the same as those involved in narcotic distribution?'' The answer is, ``No.'' They are two separate, though related problems. Helping average non-violent offenders become discontributing members of our population is not only moral but it is in our best economic and social interest. Academic research fairs out the cost efficiency of treatment of incarceration. A study funded by the National Institute of Health found that comprehensive drug treatment reduces the drug possibility by 57 percent. That drug addicted inmates will be re-vested to 37 percent, being less likely to use drugs again. Another study, this one by the U.S. Department of Health, found that drug treatment reduces arrests rates by 64 percent. A study by the Renin Institute found that drug treatment was 70 times more cost effective than using law enforcement alone, as a drug control strategy. Given that alternative treatment programs are generally less expensive than housing inmates in prison, many of my colleagues in the legislature have shown support for this better use of State resources. The general assembly recently passed a bill creating alternative drug courts. That allowed juveniles who have committed non-violent drug offenses to enter a 12 to 18-month treatment program. This program has frequent drug tests, and is under the supervision of the Chief Justice Circuit Court Legislature, also established the treatment center in the Cook County, Department for Women, who have been convicted of non-violent drug offenses, both of those messages pass the central, actually one must be demonstrating very strong support for time and incarceration. They need an opportunity to live their lives and provide the hope of restitution for citizens, who instead of tossing the State money, may contradict to State revenue, straight through income and poverty taxes. Unfortunately, like other States, ours has a budget through leaders and the government to reduce the funding for various adults, taxation by $6.9 million. The amortization of this cut, I believe, will be a greater cost to State and future incarcerations, than receiving treatment soon after they are released from prison living in a cell. Given any number, my emphasis is in drug treatment, rather than this. My hope that the number of offenders returning to prison and using drugs will decrease, and this year cost this State $193 billion with respect to that, it is imperative that we begin to improve the percent of others incarcerated and provide every non-violent drug offender. I applaud the regional award of $2 million for the Illinois Department of Corrections to provide the tentative action for serious and violent offenders who return to Illinois communities after prison. However, I would ask this committee to also consider the benefit of providing strong preventative programs that strike against substance abuse through established alternative rentention programs for non-violent drug offenders. In closing, I want to touch on another concern of our community in anticipating war on our criminals. That when ex- drug offenders leave, after they've paid their time and debt to society, that they have a chance in society. I submitted a bill without success to expunge low crime misdemeanors and make it easier for some individuals to get a second chance at life by removing prior offenses from their criminal records, reducing recidivism, and helping society as we consider our strategy in the fight against the war on illegal drugs. We will do well to consider additional steps that must be taken as part of successful intervention. Mr. Chairman and distinguished other members of the committee, I applaud you for all your leadership, I commend all of you. Thank you for this opportunity to share my concerns, and I will be happy to answer any of your questions. [The prepared statement of Ms. Howard follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.018 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.019 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.020 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.021 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.022 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.023 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.024 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.025 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.026 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.027 Mr. Souder. Thank you. I want to followup a little bit with something said by Mr. Deer on your--I think it's pretty well established that for a program to be effective people must want to deal with the real dilemma here. What precisely does that mean? In other words, in a drug court, what we've seen in some cities, the judge mandates whether the individual will be heard. We heard that in the Dalmore area, in high-income home areas, the penalty is severe with the drug court. Which, I think is really part of the reason. Although the term reasonable for success with the mandate as well. Do we want to do this? I mean, I want to be out of myself for the day going to a lecture. Does it mean I really can portray my life? To what extent is that committing? Because, for example, you quoted in your testimony saying they wanted to do it, but they didn't have followup service to enable them to do it. So, does really wanting you to do it, if you had a second point, but to with what degree does the first point make that decision, as opposed to do services? Mr. Deer. Yes. In my answer to that, it is my belief, over the years of experience that I have, when an individual voluntarily chooses to change because they generally get to a State where they're uncomfortable with themselves, and if I can get through to them they are more apt to do well, they have been involved with the drugs in their lives and are sick and tired of being sick and tired, of being, you know, on drugs. Or, you know, not having a job, so forth, and so on. When we have a situation where they are being evicted or told that, ``Hey, you must change and go along with the process.'' But anybody can either make the choice to go through this and get, you know, treatment for it, the substance abuse problem that you have, or you may end up going to jail. That's another problem that I deal with on a daily basis. They say, you know, ``Hey, I'm not going to get out my mind that I have 6 months in jail, because at least I know that I'm not going to go through a treatment process for 6 months to a year. So, if I voluntarily chose to change because I want to, then I'm more apt to move toward that life change and life transforming liberation change.'' Mr. Souder. Let me ask you another dilemma related to that. In the mid-'80's when I was a staff with the general committee, I was asked, and I went into this huge gang problem, which has worked with a lot, and I met some other people who all worked there with government, was we need to get alternative programs for some of the kids if we are going to get them out of the gangs. We found, however, some kids in the gangs increased and the reason was because the programs were there for the kids who went in the gangs in the first place. The only way not to be targeted was to join the gang. One of the dilemmas we have in government is, should we make this hard decision. We as legislators, having to deal with the people who are following the law, who are working hard to pay for their housing, whose kids are behaving, and they clearly see the need, if there is a violent offender about to come out to try to address that question, and the degree it's less than that it becomes, whether it's a non-violent offender who is not, in many cases, given the fact that they can already barely pay in many cases their own housing and their own types of problems, no matter how wealthy you are, you can barely make your bills, and, therefore, TASC is usually not a very good thing for politicians. TASC tries to advocate and that puts us in a real dilemma with violent offenders, who don't want to report, and yet, they know and lose some of that. From your experience and personal knowledge, I would be interested in some of your concerns. Mr. Deer. And I do think that certainly I agree with what you heard being said. I do think that certainly dollars need to go toward prevention, in many cases, public opinion some really are related to them, because people do see what could happen. It's also like, hey, I'm not going to put a bunch of money if something--And I don't know if it is going to happen for sure or not. I believe that prevention is really the key and the change process in teaching some sense. When we take a look from the youth file prospective, there may be files who they all present poor education in a school system, and, thereafter, school programs, and so forth, and so on, the person would choose to go there because they would have to go on out in the environment. And what I'm trying to say is, if we take a look at this from the present situation; people are saying that the way for people to sell drugs, what are the consequences? I'm saying, educate not from inception, I think that is really, yes. We do need money set for violent offenders, and as each case, the people that I see daily feel like the world has just kicked them to the curb. They feel like in every case they come from dysfunctional homes. In many cases, they have burned all of their bridges, they showed from their comments, they showed from their services, that nobody wanted anything to do with them whatsoever. See, if I come to you with a program and say, I'm here to make you change and first build a rapport. How many of those programs have faces that they can recognize faces of individuals from their communities, faces of individuals who can actually show you that they say, I'm here for you, instead most of the programs came from people they don't trust those individuals. And in many cases, it's people they have never seen before in their lives. To this particular answer, I think that there should be partnerships with communities, their leaders and individuals who are in a group which have come out so that they can move and go out and talk to, you know. Mr. Souder. You make a strong point. I don't think Congressman Davis wants you to run against him. Mr. Deer. I wouldn't do that. Ms. Howard. I'd like to support and agree with it. I have been a long-time supporter of prevention and early intervention. I have worked in the public school systems and the private school system for a number of years, and communities to support education prevention and intervention treatment. Lifestyle change is so important, it is so critical that I think it's got to start at the very lowest level in each community. It has to bring in with it the schools, the education service organization, and the members of the community to draw everyone together. Because there is nothing better than a recovering person going back out to the community with support. And I think this is the thing that we feel that there needs to be a partnership for each and every individual that has gone through the criminal justice system, and the substance abuse program, to help them, not only in the recovery programs, but also put them into education training, English as a second language, getting vocation training, job training, job teaching, job support. All of this is critical. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Davis. Your work in this area has become legendary, and especially as it relates to the whole question of expungement, and yet you indicate that we are having difficulty with success. Even though research, even through positive friends, even through people who work in the field, continue to suggest that the ability to acquire and maintain jobs, as one of the most needed goals for individuals, period. Because then they can experience self-worth, they can feel that there is some hope for them, that their lives can be different than what they currently have. Where do you see the next step being as we try and deal---- I'm remembering the expungement summit that we had last year downtown. There were over 1,500 people, came on a Saturday morning to Garfield Park trying to get their records expunged. They came from over the country as far as California; one fellow came from Milwaukee, from North Chicago, from Champaign, from Indiana, from Michigan, because they had heard about it, and yet the law enforcement community especially wanted to agree, and of course, not enough members of the legislature, to have simply those individuals records' sealed, expunged, so that it doesn't count against them. Where do we go? Ms. Howard. As I mentioned earlier, I just have not been successful in matters, although, I have been trying to do for 3 years. My next step is going to be to file a legislation again in January when the new session starts. My mission is to try to help those individuals get a second chance again with clean records. I think that we as a society, we as a country who talk about reflection, who talk about one's pain, one's debt, must step up and make a decision to give people a second chance to do not do; that means that we don't care about their faith, that they can't take care of adults, take care of children, children can't get government loans, grants, there are so many things that they are not able to do when they become second class citizens. I am hopeful that some of my colleagues who believe that to support this legislation that they are being soft on crime who have a whole different arrest action of some, but, of course, I am going to be talking to them and trying to---- We're not talking about people not paying their debt, we're not talking about people guilty, we are saying that once they've done their time, they're out to get some consideration. And mind you, we are talking about the less serious offenses, Congressman, they are not heinous crimes. As well, the law enforcement agency knows that we are not asking that their records be sealed from them. That was our intention early on. This legislation will only take the information away from those who have ability to give employment to the individual. So we are not talking about some criminals, violent criminals, second crime criminals having to do with changing the DUI law, none of that. We are saying the lessor serious offenses which, in fact, that would cover a lot of people who live in Illinois. Mr. Davis. You have done wonders with helping the individuals, as I have tried to help them, and I think that if others put as much effort into this particular mission as you have, then I think that we will be successful. I am certainly going to continue to try, as well, I certainly want to again thank you, and I really don't have any other questions of the panel. But let me, just in Illinois, there are 56 job titles that an ex-offender can't hold, and so when you talk about individuals going through drug treatment, and you are banned from 56 jobs, legally you can't get a license to cut hair, you can't get a license to be a beautician, you can't get a license to be a nail technician. You can't work around a day care center. You can't work around a school. You can't be the janitor or maintenance man around a nursing home. You can't wash dishes in a hospital. You can't work in doctor's office and the list goes on, and on, and on. In that respect, I guess we are as bad as anybody in some other respect, not quite as bad like the State of Florida. There were 204,000 African-American males who could not vote in the last election; 204,000, that's unbelievable, or you would consider the 13 percent of African-American males in this country are caught up with records, I mean it's a major problem. So I want to thank you again, all of the witnesses, for the work that you do and have done and for your testimony. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Souder. And I will offer my time. There is a gentleman, Pat Nolan, who has the same issue that he is working on. I am sure his organization--they have a division called Judicial Fellowship that can actually deal with policy problems, and maybe if you haven't talked with them, you can touch base with him. Ms. Howard. Yes, I'm familiar with him and I'm going to be in touch with him. Mr. Souder. Pat Nolan has a judicial fellowship division. Pat was a State Senator in California working on a case where a worker got arrested in a sting operation which was questionable, but he was convicted and he has testified in court, as well as other places on Capitol Hill, that being in prison, seeing it from the inside, then seeing what that does with your approach, you and he have a lot of ability to communicate to people, where others might not listen because of his involvement and his background, his credentials much like what you have. Ms. Howard. I just mentioned that conversation because I know an individual who just received his Ph.D., and, of course, I was very happy for him, but as he spelled out in his background, he is not able to teach in the public school system in this State, and it's really sad. What does one have to do to prove that you have decided to do good, that you have decided to turn your life around. So we have a lot to do, and I'm going to be in touch with Mr. Nolan. Mr. Souder. Thank you, thank you. And any additional comments that you would like to put in the record, we have the book here, and then people will refer to that, and legislators will look that over. Thank you again for your work. [Recess.] Mr. Souder. The second panel can now come forward. Mr. Davis. If we could reconvene. We are ready to start the second panel. Thank you all very much. Mr. Souder. So much more of a commanding voice than mine. [Witnesses sworn.] Mr. Souder. I want to let the record show that each of the witnesses responded in the affirmative. Reverend Housler could not be here. We are joined by Ms. Sharron D. Matthews, of Safer Foundation. I am glad that you can be here. Our first witness is Terrie McDermott, from the Cook County Sheriff's Department. Mr. Davis. Excuse me, but if I could, I would like to acknowledge also the presence of Judge Dorothy Cox for the Circuit Court of Cook County. STATEMENTS OF TERRIE MCDERMOTT, COOK COUNTY SHERIFF'S OFFICE; SHARRON D. MATTHEWS, DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC POLICY AND ADVOCACY, SAFETY FOUNDATION; TIM WHITNEY, SPECIAL COUNSEL, TASC, INC.; DOROTHY M. REID, PRESIDENT, OAK PARK NAACP BRANCH; AND JESUS REYES, DIRECTOR, SOCIAL SERVICES, CIRCUIT COURT OF COOK COUNTY Ms. McDermott. Good morning. My name is Terrie McDermott. On behalf of Cook County Sheriff Michael Sheahan, I would like to thank Congressman Danny Davis, Representative Mark Souder, and Elijah Cummings for the opportunity to address this body, and bring attention to the plight and crisis of the female offender population, not only in Cook County but nationally. From 1990 to the present, the female population at the Cook County jail has increased by almost 100 percent; 83.5 percent of women were booked at the jail for nonviolent crimes that include drug offenses and crimes committed to support their drug habits, particularly theft and prostitution. The drug-dependent woman at the jail suffers from multiple risk factors that complicate substance abuse, poverty, psycho- social problems, mental illness, histories of trauma and abuse, and involvement in abusive relationships. Many were sexually abused as children. The women are the primary caretakers of their children. According to recent data collected from a research project conducted by the University of Chicago of Women at the Cook County jail, the female population is getting older. They are single mothers in their mid-thirties with multiple children, with over one half having three or more children ranging from age 4 to 14. The women have a history of substance abuse with multiple prior incarcerations and are serving a year or less for drug- related or property offenses. Also according to a recent publication from the National Committee on Crime and Delinquency, there are more than 1.3 children in the United States that have parents who are incarcerated. The University of Chicago study predicts that in Illinois alone the next generation will number around 60,000 children that will have a mother who spent time in an Illinois prison; 60 percent of the women in Illinois prisons come from Cook County. Studies are indicating that children of parents, especially mothers show higher involvement in criminal or violent behavior and are six times more likely to become involved in the criminal justice system in their lifetime. The potential impact of having another generation involved in the criminal justice system is staggering. The Center for Substance Abuse Treatment is convinced that addicted women can be helped through comprehensive programs and services designed for women that include criteria to treat factors associated with substance abuse and trauma. According to the Center for Substance Abuse Treatment, effective treatment programming does empower the addicted woman offender to overcome their substance abuse, to lead a crime- free life and become a productive citizen. The Cook County Sheriff's Department of Women's Justice Services was created in December 1999, with the help and advice of national experts and is nationally recognized. The purpose of the Department is to help women offenders develop healthy drug-free lifestyles by healing from trauma and addiction while improving mother-child relationships. The department currently oversees three comprehensive pre- trial programs that include a 100-bed residential drug treatment unit, a day reporting center known as the Sheriff's Female Furlough program, and a program specifically created to treat pregnant addicted women known as the MOM's program. This unique approach allows the new born and preschool children to live with their mom while she is undergoing treatment for substance abuse and trauma. This program is housed in an offsite facility. To date, the MOM's program is responsible for 76 babies being born drug free. The Cook County Hospital estimates that the cost associated with treating a drug-addicted baby in the neonatal intensive care unit is around $2,500 a day for approximately 10 days. To date, the MOM's program has saved the taxpayers of Cook County almost $2 million. Traditional treatment programs for substance abuse were male modeled and male designed. There was little if any consideration to the issues that needed to be addressed for women. A colleague refers to this approach as the add women and stir concept. The Department of Women's Justice Services is committed to programs and services that create an environment and program development that reflects the reality of women's lives and is responsive to the issues of women participants. The development of the department's gender and culturally responsive programs and services over the past few years have lead us to realize that because of the women's background, the participants are very high risk and need intensive treatment. Therefore, a longer period of treatment is needed. The Sheriff, along with Representative Tom Dart, sponsored a bill that passed the State legislature in May 2002. It is currently on the Governor's desk awaiting signature. The concept of the bill is to create a residential and transition center for women allowing the Cook County Sheriff's Office to place nonviolent women drug offenders in an intensive residential and community transition treatment program for a 1- year alternative sentence to prison. The program, which would be operated by the Sheriff's Department of Women's Justice Services, would provide a sentencing option for women in lieu of a State prison sentence. The program will integrate gender-responsive interdisciplinary drug treatment, mental health and physical health services, parenting skills, family relationship counseling, life skills and job readiness training. The female participant will also be required to obtain a GED and/or a vocational certificate. An aftercare component will provide case management, mentoring, and support services for up to 12 months after program completion. Currently, there are no funds to support this initiative, but we are actively seeking all avenues of revenue that include both traditional and non-traditional means. We respectfully request your advice and support with this endeavor. The predictions for the future of another generation being involved in the criminal justice system are alarming and are at a crisis status. It is imperative that we take a different approach. Treatment is needed and is necessary. The revolving door syndrome must end. We cannot afford to write off the next generation. Mr. Souder. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. McDermott follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.028 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.029 Mr. Souder. Ms. Matthews. Ms. Matthews. Yes, good morning. Thank you. I'm Sharron D. Matthews, director of public policy and advocacy for the Safer Foundation. First, I'd like to thank Chairman Souder and Congressman Cummings and our own Congressman Danny Davis and the other honorable members of this particular committee for providing an opportunity for ex-offenders, community leaders, service providers, employers and policy advocates working at the community level in Illinois to present our views on this particular topic, our experiences, thoughts and recommendations on what is arguably one of the most important areas of public policy in our Nation today. The Safer Foundation is a non-profit organization that was established 30 years ago for the explicit purpose and with the mission of providing employment assistance and other supportive services to ex-offenders to reduce recidivism and, thereby, increase public safety. Since 1972, we have had the opportunity to work with and on behalf of over 100,000 individuals, and have provided employment placement services to over 40,000 ex- offenders. In recent years, there has been noted an increase in the number of drug-related offenses and subsequent convictions. In our own State, the Illinois Department of Corrections has cited in their fiscal year 2001 report that at least 25 percent of men, 38 percent of women, and 39 percent of juvenile-committed offenses were specifically drug related. These statistics are of major concern as we look at the rising problems of substance abuse in our society, and in our State in particular. Unfortunately, however, the situation is even more critical when considering that criminal justice authorities, both locally and nationally, indicate that the actual percentage of crimes which are drug motivated ranges from 50 to 70 percent once you include some of the crimes that are placed in the categories of person and property offenses. In a recent presentation before the City Club of Chicago that I attended, State's Attorney Richard Devine cited a 50 percent drug-related crime rate for the State of Illinois. He also mentioned that for many who are first time offenders and who have not committed non-violent drug offenses, prisons were not the best or most appropriate places for them to receive treatment. He suggested that alternative sentencing needed to be utilized more in such cases as a strategy of intervention, rehabilitation and crime prevention. Mr. Devine then went on to speak about such a program that his own office has initiated which was working well. The Safer Foundation does not provide substance abuse treatment. We do, however, provide education and pre-employment drug testing. We also make referrals for individuals who are in need of treatment to several of the agencies that specialize in this area of services as part of our in-depth client intake and assessment process. Once an individual is referred and enters into treatment, at the appropriate time, she or he can return to Safer for employment assistance. We also have been noting an increase in the number of ex- offenders who are in need of such referrals and are, therefore, very concerned that additional resources, and expanded alternative programming are provided as soon as possible to more adequately and appropriately address the needs of ex- offenders who are substance abusers. In addition, we are here to suggest that the scope of these proceedings also include a review of policies related to the strategy of employment as an essential part of any ex-offender substance abuse treatment program and re-entry process. As rates in incarceration have drastically increased, so have rates in recidivism. In a report released by the Bureau of Statistics of the U.S. Department of Justice earlier this year, it was indicated that one in 32 Americans are now involved in the American criminal justice system. The Bureau has more recently projected a one in twenty involvement level and a 60 percent recidivism rate. Due to their substance abuse issues, drug offenders are among ex-offenders with higher potential for recidivating. Employment is seen as one of the key factors in successful re-entry for all ex-offenders. To reduce repeat offenses, the employment of substance abusers must also be viewed as a central part of their road to recovery. Once able to work, these individuals need access to legal and gainful employment in order to retain and further their progress on the journey to self-sufficiency. Unfortunately, however, at a time when so many are in need of assistance, there are policies that may serve as barriers to their efforts of rehabilitation and subsequent successful re- entry. Currently, access to public aid benefits, public housing, the Pell Grant for college tuition, and State occupational licensure all have restrictions, if one is an ex- offender with drug convictions ranging from misdemeanors to felonies. Also several government agencies in recent years have adopted more restrictive hiring and employee retention policies regarding ex-offenders and, in particular, those with drug convictions. One may ask how are these policies related to today's topic of inquiry? There is a chain of events that may lead to one's becoming addicted to drugs, committing a drug-related offense, being convicted, and then incarcerated. Fortunately, there is also a chain of resources and opportunities once accessed that can lead to one's rehabilitation. Unfortunately, however, the continuum of access is broken. In addition to there not being enough treatment programs and alternative sentencing approaches, there is also no or very limited access to affordable housing, temporary emergency public aid benefits, funds for higher education, or the possibility of better paying jobs or self-employment through occupational licensure. Each of these resources is critical to a substance abuser's rehabilitation process during and post-incarceration. According to the Illinois Department of Corrections, women are the fastest growing segment of those now being incarcerated for non-violent drug offenses. Most are mothers with children waiting to reunite with them, but family re-unification requires financial resources and housing. However, according to the Illinois Department of Human Resources, currently there are more than 10,000 families with mothers who are ex-offenders with drug offenses that are subject to the Federal ban from receiving TANF benefits. On the city level, in Chicago there is a bar to public housing for convicted drug offenders. On the State level, as reported in a study conducted by DePaul University Law Clinic in 2000, 57 of our 98 professional occupations that require State licensure have various restrictions pertaining to eligibility for ex-offenders. These types of policies that were promulgated to prevent crime and ensure a quality work force impact particularly hard on the rehabilitation quotient for offenders and ex-offenders with substance abuse challenges. To address the wider issue of these resultant systemic barriers that some policies have directly or inadvertently served to promote, the following recommendations are offered: One, provide more funding for existing and new substance abuse education and treatment programs. Two, provide funding for early initiation during the incarceration period of the delivery of substance abuse treatment services, and planning for re-entry, including employment, housing, vocational training, family re- unification, identification of emergency resources, etc. Three, given the increasing rate of homelessness among ex- offenders in general, provide funding for the establishment of more longer-termed treatment residential community based facilities. Four, introduction of Federal legislation to establish and provide funding for alternative sentencing strategies that are gender and age specific in design for women, men and youth that would allow them to stay in their homes or communities in lieu of incarceration while receiving treatment and employment assistance. The House Bill 1961-an alternative sentencing program for women non-violent drug offenders in Cook County recently passed by the Illinois General Assembly. Five, provide flexibility to States for the allowance of ex-offenders with drug convictions to be eligible for, or to resume receipt of TANF cash benefits. And the last, is establishment of a funding mechanism on the Federal and/or State level to provide emergency temporary cash grants for 3 to 6 months to ex-offenders who are not parents, but our Workforce Investment Act eligible to assist them financially until they become employed. Your consideration of these suggestions and of the others presented today is greatly appreciated by our clients, their families, their current and potential employers, our staff, and all of our communities. Thank you very much for this time. [The prepared statement of Ms. Matthews follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.030 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.031 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.032 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.033 Mr. Souder. We are going to take your testimony first, and we will get to the questions afterwards. So, next we will hear testimony from Tim Whitney. Mr. Whitney. Mr. Chairman, my name is Tim Whitney, special counsel for TASC, Inc. TASC is an independent, non-profit entity that, by virtue of State statute and administrative rule, serves as the linking agent between the criminal court system and community-based treatment. We are the largest such entity in the country, with a statewide scope. TASC's role in connecting the Illinois justice system to community-based treatment is as follows: Non-violent offenders who demonstrate drug abuse or addiction and meet certain statutory eligibility requirements are referred to TASC for a comprehensive clinical assessment. As a result of that assessment, TASC will determine which candidates are acceptable for treatment, based on any number of factors including the drug use history, other service needs, and readiness for treatment. Those clients who are accepted to TASC will develop an individualized treatment recovery plan and place clients into the appropriate treatment services in the community, including many of the agencies who have testified and who are representing here today. TASC does not provide the treatment services directly. However, we do monitor the offender's recovery progress and make regular reports and recommendations back to the court and probation. In this capacity, we receive about 12,000 referrals a year from the criminal court system and statewide. As the entity given the responsibility for setting these certain categories of drug-involved offenders on the road to self-sufficiency and health, we hold our clients, the clients that we serve, to very high standards of participation and completion. These fairly rigorous standards recognize that recovery from addiction is a long process, it is a challenging process, and that further conditions to be discussed here today, such as income and housing, have to be satisfied in order to increase the likelihood of successful recovery. So, in order to be what we call ``terminated successfully'' from TASC, an individual must meet all of the following criteria: First, completion of their clinical treatment plan, which may take 12 months or longer; 4 straight months drug- free, as determined by drug testing; a stable living environment; a legal source of income; and no new arrests or convictions. Forty percent of TASC clients will meet all of these success criteria. And considering the strict nature of each of the five criteria, as well as the combination of all five, as the ultimate determinant of success, we believe 40 percent is a very positive reflection on the impact of our program. This is especially true in light of national research that indicates that close to two-thirds of offenders who do not receive rehabilitative services will recidivate. Most justice programs do not even consider important issues such as housing, employment when evaluating their effectiveness. As far as the 60 percent who don't meet these success criteria, the most common reason is by far a violation in terms of their probation prior to completion of the treatment plan. As a result of the violation, some are sent to jail or prison, and some will have their probation conditions amended. Others will face changes in their justice status and may be terminated unsuccessfully for technical reasons, simply because TASC no longer has supervision of the offender. For those who are terminated due to failure in treatment, it is important to note that an unsuccessful discharge from TASC does not connote permanent failure. As I said, treatment and recovery are long and difficult processes, which involve re-learning certain social, psychological and neurological functions, and many individuals go through treatment two or more times before lasting recovery can even be hoped to be achieved. So in closing, what we would suggest of the Federal Government, much of which has been mentioned already, is more funding for treatment and other communities support services. We've heard a number of stories about the number of clients served, and generally, it is in the hundreds or the thousands, but when we look at the total supervised population in Illinois reaching a number up to 200,000, we just can't possibly hope to serve a number of people who need these services with all of the services that are in place now. We simply need more money for treatment. Second, and this is on services, and as we discussed other issues, like education, employment, housing, child welfare, mental health. Third, programs that are designed to intervene early in the criminal justice involvement, such as the sheriff has mentioned, and continued through incarceration and through the re-entry process. Fourth, recognition of treatment and recovery as a long- term often relapse-prone process. And fifth, recognition and proliferation of programs that have proven successful and who are using substance abuse and crime, and accountability for those who don't. Mr. Souder. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Whitney follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.034 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.035 Mr. Souder. Next we will move to Ms. Reid. Dorothy M. Reid, Seventh Congressional District, resident who lives in Oak Park. Ms. Reid. Thank you, Chairman Souder, and Congressman Davis, and others, for the opportunity to address this body today. My name is Dorothy Reid, and I'm a Seventh Congressional resident who lives in Oak Park, IL. I am also an elected member of the Oak Park District 97 School Board and president on leave the Oak Park Branch of the NAACP. In addition, I am a democratic candidate for State representative in the 78th District. My remarks this morning reflect my concern that the State of Illinois has not done enough in the areas of substance abuse education and treatment programs as deterrents to crime. In fact, Illinois, like probably many States, has continued to be under the misconception that prison and zero tolerance are the most effective deterrents of crime. Illinois, according to the John Howard Association, has the fastest growing prison population in American. Legislators continue to support the notion that incarceration, not treatment, is what the public wants to see. The ``lock 'em up'' mentality that pervades in Springfield is evident in the inability of State Representative Constance Howard to pass the expungement legislation. Even a bill that would expunge from the record a conviction that was totally in error. The result is there are many individuals in Illinois that have to carry erroneous convictions for the rest of their lives because some Legislators and elected officials do not want to appear to be soft on crime. In my view, this is unconscionable. Another negative example of the outdated zero tolerance approach by legislators is to deal with substance abusers. A study by the National Institute of Justice on drug use in Chicago revealed that in 1999, over 80 percent of the people arrested and booked for felonies and misdemeanors tested positive for recent illegal drug use. The John Howard Association reported that of the accelerated prison population in Illinois nearly three of four prisoners were classified as substance abusers. Yet, fewer than 1 percent received treatment. Experts, including the former drug czar Barry McCaffrey, verify that treatment is cheaper and safer way to cut crime than imprisonment. A Rand Corp. study indicated that for every one incarceration, every one crime and incarceration, would eliminate treatment--treatment would eliminate at least fifteen. Both New York and Arizona have developed programs to treat rather than to imprison non-violent drug offenders. New York's program is expected to save taxpayers more than $500 million a year. As important, their program will dramatically reduce recidivism. Illinois needs to get on board. I support changing our laws to make non-violent drug abuse offenses health issues, rather than criminal justice issues. By emphasizing diagnosis and treatment rather than incarceration we could easily double next year's funding for prevention and treatment. Incarcerating an adult for 1 year costs up to $37,000. Compare that with residential treatment of $15,000, or if applicable, outpatient care of less than $3,000 per year. Research indicates that treatment reduces both recidivism and relapse. Adding community-based care reduces re-arrests even further. I also support emphasizing education in our correctional institutions for substance abuse education, vocational education, as well as reinstituting college-level classes. Statistics show that 61 percent of prisoners classified as regular drug users, do not have a high school diploma. Substance abuse and lack of education reinforce and exacerbate each other. Breaking that cycle is paramount. And inmates who receive educational and vocational training are less likely to return to prison after release. Congressman Davis of Illinois has showed the Nation that we must address the needs of prisoners and ex-offenders. If we don't, they shall not only be non-productive citizens, but predators within our community. Our State legislators must step up to the plate, and show courage. They must change the laws and have that result in record numbers of imprisoned substance abusers. They must recognize substance abuse need--Substance abusers need understanding and treatment, not punishment. It is the humane way to solve this burgeoning drug problem in America. Punishing the substance offender eventually punishes the whole society and accomplishes nothing. Thank you. [The prepared statement of Ms. Reid follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.036 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.037 Mr. Souder. Mr. Reyes. Mr. Reyes. Thank you, Chairman Souder, and thank you, Congressman Davis. I am pleased to be here before you today to present testimony in my capacity as director of the Social Service Department of the Circuit Court of Cook County. In order to place my testimony in context, I will briefly tell you about my department. The Social Service Department is one of three probation departments in the Circuit Court. It is primarily a misdemeanor probation department. The Circuit Court of Cook County is the largest unified court system in the Nation and it is administered by Chief Judge Timothy C. Evans. The Department handles approximately 22,000 misdemeanor court referrals each year. The offenses include substance abuse, domestic and family violence, sexual offenses, drunk driving, petty theft and many other crimes. Underlying substance abuse issues, as my testimony will show, are present in a majority of the offenders we see. My department's mission is to restore the offender to useful citizenship. We accomplish our goal through a variety of individual and group intervention strategies within our department and through linkages with hundreds of community- based treatment providers, including some of the agencies that have presented testimony today. The department has a staff of approximately 270, and the main point of my testimony today is to tell you that it is not possible to accomplish our mission without proper evaluation in the possible presence of substance abuse issues and appropriate treatment in all our offenders, regardless of the offense that brought them to our attention. So, I will focus on three areas: No. 1, the prevalence of substance abuse in the probation population; No. 2, why evaluating for underlying substance abuse issues makes sense; and, No. 3, programs of the Social Service Department and how we approach the issue. The first part, prevalence of substance abuse in the probation population. A good place to begin is to review the size of the probation population in the United States. As of the end of 1996, there were approximately 3.2 million adult U.S. residents sentenced to probation. This number represents 58 percent of the U.S. population of adults under correctional supervision, which includes parolees, local jail inmates, as well as State and Federal prisoners. Of the more than 3 million probationers in the United States, various surveys have found that between 50 and 80 percent have a history of alcohol and liquor abuse. Most probationers have a history of substance abuse. In addition, research strongly suggests that substance abuse plays a significant role either in a period of time closely preceding the offense or during the actual time of the offense. The first national survey of adults on probation took place in 1995. That survey found that 32 percent were using illegal drugs in the month before their offense, and 32 percent were under the effects of drugs while committing the offense. More than 20 percent were on probation for driving under the influence of alcohol or other drugs, and 25 percent were intoxicated at the time of the offense. The demonstrated high incidence of substance abuse and its temporal relationship to many offenses compel criminal justice agencies to address the issue. It is now quite clear that regardless of the type of offense that brings each offender to our attention, exploration of the possible presence of substance abuse should be standard procedure. A Massachusetts task force on substance abuse and the courts concurred, there is no other circumstance in our society where there exists such a high interaction between the presence of substance abuse and the power and leverage of an institution that presently exists when the substance abuse or early courts interact. So stated in the panel. Part two. Why evaluating for underlying substance abuse issues make sense? It is important that criminal justice professionals look beyond the specific offense that caused the individual's conviction. It is intuitively sensible to administer substance abuse evaluations to a person convicted of driving under the influence and drug-related offenses. For example, the 1995 survey of adults on probation is finding that probationers sentenced for driving while intoxicated made up a fifth of all probationers, and 98 percent confirmed they committed the offense while under the influence of alcohol or drugs, is really not surprising. However, it has not always been thought of as equal, sensible to ask other types of offenders about their involvement in alcohol and other substances. Studies suggest that we really should. The same survey found that 49 percent burglary, 48 percent of assault, and 44 percent of violent offenders had used alcohol or drugs at the time of the offense while the percentage for poverty offenders was 23 percent. The least likely to report drug or alcohol use during the offense were probationers sentenced for fraud, and it was 13 percent. A fundamental question that arises is, ``Can treatment be successful in the context of the criminal justice environment?'' Research findings strongly suggest that it can. A number of studies have concluded that criminal justice clients do as well, or better, than others in drug abuse treatment. Furthermore, the studies suggest that involvement in the criminal justice system helps clients stay in treatment. Numerous studies support the efficacy of the treatment of the substance-abusing offender. A 1996 position paper of the American Probation and Parole Association on substance abuse treatment states that, Probation is an effective context for treatment to occur. An integrated approach involving assessment, treatment-offender matching, intervention, i.e., treatment, surveillance, i.e., drug testing, and enforcement, in other words sanctions, is an appropriate strategy for dealing with drug-involved offenders. Evaluating all probationers for substance abuse and, if applicable, providing treatment is cost-effective. A Massachusetts task force on substance abuse and the courts declared that treatment is far cheaper than incarceration. And I had some of the same statistics that have already been cited, so I won't take your time with that. In its 1996 position paper on substance abuse treatment, the American Probation and Parole Association states: It is estimated that for every $1 invested in treatment of drug- involved individuals, taxpayers enjoy a $4 return in the reduction of costs related to alcohol and drug abuse. A 1994 study of treatment outcomes in California revealed a $7 return for every $1 invested. So, having established that number when substance abuse issues are present in a large percentage of all probationers, that substance abuse treatment has been found to be effective with probationers, and that substance abuse treatment in probation setting is cost-effective. Another question necessary follows, how does a probation department establish mechanisms when a detection of underlying substance abuse issues. I will answer that question by telling you what we do in the Social Service Department of the Circuit Court of Cook County. The department's approach to evaluating all clients for substance abuse issues is done in one of four ways, depending on the offense that brought the client to our department. The first two of those ways are for clients whose offenses are directly related to drug or alcohol use. They are our DUI programming under a treatment program. I won't elaborate on those because that is not a main focus of my testimony. Instead, I will concentrate on the two approaches that focus on evaluating clients and offenses not primarily substance-abuse related. Domestic and family violence offenders and those falling into our general category of diversified offenses. The Social Service Department has one of the first court- based certified abuser services program in the State of Illinois. One of the distinguishing characteristics of our Batterer's Intervention Programs is its comprehensive Domestic Violence Assessment developed in cooperation with experts from the University of Illinois at Chicago. As part of a comprehensive assessment of all aspects of the offender's background, the domestic violence assessment instrument devotes considerable attention to substance abuse issues. Any offender determined to have substance abuse-related issues, is brought to the court's attention with a recommendation for a comprehensive evaluation for substance abuse treatment as a precursor to involvement in batterer's groups. The literature supports the existence of substance abuse issues in batteries. Various studies have concluded that the incidence of substance abuse among men in batterer's programs is between 50 and 100 percent. As part of diversified offenders, all clients that come to the department on offenses not primarily related to substance abuse, undergo a thorough assessment of criminogenic factors known to contribute to involvement in the criminal justice system. The case history and case planning interview devotes considerable attention to evaluating for substance-related issues. Any client found to have the potential for those issues is returned to court for a modification of the court conditions to include a complete substance abuse evaluation. The department's current measurable goals and objectives in the summer of 2000 called for the tracking of every client in all types of offenses to ascertain re-arrested convictions for a period of 1 year following the completion of the period of their supervision by the Department. Our offenders are ordered for supervision by our department for a period between 18 and 24 months. Therefore, the first court in this study has yet to complete its supervision period. In conclusion, it is my belief that evaluating for underlying substance abuse issues must be an integral part of the comprehensive probation strategy. The evidence of their assistance in the general probation population is overwhelming. Their role is key. Determinants in success or failure of our work is great, as I request to our society. Thank you for allowing me to participate in this hearing. In addition to thanking Chief Judge Timothy C. Evans for his leadership and support in my department's work. I also thank President John Stroger and all the Commissioners who work, Commissioners of Cook County that continue support. Thank you. Mr. Souder. Thank you very much. [The prepared statement of Mr. Reyes follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.038 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.039 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.040 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.041 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.042 Mr. Souder. We have also been joined by Reverend Albert Housler, executive director of the Faces of Recovery. As we explained earlier, we have to swear in each of the witnesses in front of this committee, so that--although I understand that God would be even madder than the government, if you could stand and raise your right hand. [Witness sworn.] Mr. Souder. Let the record show that the witness responded in the affirmative. Thank you for making time to join us and we look forward to hearing your testimony. STATEMENT OF REVEREND ALBERT R. HOUSLER, DIRECTOR OF THE FACES OF RECOVERY Mr. Housler. As I sit here--and first giving thanks and praise to God, because that is who brought me here, to the chairman, the Congressman Davis. As I sit here and listen to all the statistics, does treatment work, and all of the things that kind of brings us to this circle. Me representing Faces of Recovery is just not enough. I actually represent every addict and every person that has been in the criminal justice system. I have a 25 year history of substance abuse. I also have a criminal background that actually put me in and let me know that I was an addict and that I needed help. I work in the field of substance abuse as well. When I look at all of the bureaucratic things that go on, for an individual to get treatment, it kind of encourages me to keep pushing for more treatment, more treatment, because I honestly understand what has happened here. Most of the moneys that have been provided for treatment when I came through, we actually had 9 months of treatment, and now it's cut down to 3 months. And some programs it's cut down to 30 days. I went through TASC; I have been part of the probation department, so I understand all of the elements that come along with having treatment. It's about life. It's not about how much money, I mean how much do you think your life is worth, and that's where we are at here. Do you honestly believe that this person that has a minor offense in the criminal court system should have treatment? Well, I said I had a 25 year history. They didn't catch me until I was up to my 24th year. All of the times that I escaped the system and all of the times that I wasn't able to get treatment when they did catch me, and me realizing that I needed treatment, it was there for me. Now if you're caught, they're saying, lock them up. I mean, whether it be 1 bag, or 100 bags, if an individual shows or in a assessment that he has been using, or he is an addict, then he deserves to have treatment. You are saying, and not you per se, but the system is saying, we rather lock you up, whether it was 1 bag or 100 bags, and you will get better in the penitentiary. In the meanwhile, 99 percent of all addicts don't really know they're addicts, or the society doesn't know they're addicts until they are caught. They don't deal with any issues. Today I came because I realize that this is a disease, and this is part of mental health, as well as physical health. And those moneys need to be increased. Because if you think about it, I mean, when I think about where I came from and where I am now, it's a whole other world. I think that everybody should be able to get some kind of treatment for this disease. And it is a disease, gentlemen; I had it for 25 years and I still have it. It has to be treated. And the only way that it can be treated is funds from the government. TASC, or ASA, all of those agencies had to cut their moneys because the government has cut their moneys. A lot of people that need treatment won't receive treatment; a lot of people that need housing, won't receive housing because there is no moneys. They are cutting budget on all kinds of health things where this actually enables us to have a life. The addict can't live if he doesn't get treatment. Can't live. And you want to know why when you send them to prison, they don't rehabilitate and come out and join society, because they have not dealt with the issue that they had prior to going in. You know, I'm not a success story, but after 25 years of addiction, 7 years of being clean, I have a church that is worth $15 million. I work for the Gateway Foundation; I make about $60,000. I got all of that because I went through treatment and found out what my issues were. And dealt with my issues. You can't do that. You want people to re-enter society and be productive, give them some treatment. Give the addict some money, help them, help them sustain the life that they had. If you don't do that, you will continue to have tons and tons of people in the criminal justice system. You will continue to have no housing. You will continue to have--The crime rate will continue to go up. A lot of people are not bad people. They just have a disease that's bad. And we need to start addressing the fact that these are really sick people. I'm really a sick person. And by the grace of God, I've actually got some treatment and start dealing with some of the sickness that I have. If I can say more, it would be that if you want to help somebody sustain life, give them some more forms of treatment. Thank you. Mr. Souder. If I can just followup a little on your testimony. You said that you were addicted for---- Mr. Housler. Twenty-five years---- Mr. Souder [continuing]. Twenty-five years. What did it take, the arrest, to change you? Mr. Housler. Actually, I have been arrested several times. But the last time that I was arrested, I actually had a public defender, who actually was trying to win my case. I actually got caught with some heroin. And the public defender told me, ``Have you used before?'' And I said, ``That's one of the reasons that I sell this, because I use, and I don't sell it for myself, I sell it for somebody.'' He said, ``I'm not even interested in that.'' He said, ``Let me see if I can get you a TASC evaluation.'' And he did, and they found out that, you know, after the evaluation that I was an addict. He took me back in front of the judge, the judge actually gave me TASC. I went to Gateway, stayed there 9 months, and through the course of that time I actually started dealing with some stuff that I have totally forgotten about, because it was all blocked out with drugs. So, in essence, well, I mean, I got re-entered back into society. Mr. Souder. Did that transition, were you still resistant in the first part of the treatment program? Mr. Housler. You know what, and really to be honest, I was so grateful that they offered me treatment, and I wasn't resistant at all. I mean, you know, you think about taking a ride on the blue bird, which means going to the penitentiary, opposed to taking a ride in a TASC car going to some treatment facility. And saying, ``Hold it, we want to try and help you.'' You know, I talked to a lot of clients, I work with the Gateway Foundation, and most of their fears are, are you going to accept me back into society? Well, it wasn't, you know, that's a feeling everybody sees, you know, they use the word anonymity, because no one is really, wants to say that I was an addict. I don't have a problem with it, because me saying that I was an addict enabled me to get some help. But, you know, the whole essence of the whole thing is that they are not staying long enough to deal with the issues they have. Just to give you an example, if you've had, some kind of sexual issue, which happens a lot, and you've covered it up with using drugs, the initial first 30 days is really just to get the fog out. The next 30 days is really something where you can actually start to getting your momentum back, to doing things, and having your brain actually start working and functioning. The next 30 days is you getting close to your counselor and being able to talk to him and tell him some of the issues that you have, and they actually pry. After that, it's time to go. At least in our facility, which is a 90-day facility. And some facilities, it's not 90 days. It's 30 days and some people don't meet the criteria to get 90-day treatment, or there is not enough room, or not enough money. So, they don't get ample treatment. I mean, you know, if you can use it for 10 years, and you have been clean for 30 days, how does that figure out. You know, you can add it up yourself. It just doesn't pan out equally. So, what I'm saying is, the longer that you are in treatment, the more time that you are able to process those things that got you to use them in the first place. You know, we all just didn't think it was out of recreation. Some of us did it to hide the pain, some of us did it to hide the hurt. There is a lot of different reasons that addicts get high, and most of them is to skip what they are going to do. Mr. Souder. At the Gateway then, offer you a job? Or does Gateway have a processor, or would they just dump you back out in the street and say good luck? Mr. Housler. No, actually Gateway has a--at that time, they still do, they have a halfway house that now, actually, once at a halfway house, stay there a year, donated my time, and went back and filled out an application and I was hired as a chem tech at that particular time. And now I am a supervisor for all of the chem techs there. So, what I'm saying is, because of me having that long period of time. I mean, I'm not saying that it works for everybody, but I have seen everybody that has come in my class. Everybody, and I wish I can bring all of them here, have successfully re-entered back into society. I actually know some people that are directors that perhaps---- Mr. Souder. Do you believe that it takes basically a process where spiritually you're broken before you open for this? Would you have been as miserable when you were younger the first couple of times and on the individual, could you give me some thought to that? Because I met many addicts who have gone, basically hustled their way from penitentiary programs. Mr. Housler. You know, we do have some people that actually use it as a resort, for means to live, you know. They already know that, well, if I call, say, Gateway, and I've had treatment, and I'm looking in to a program that utilizes the tool that they instilled in you. So they would call them again, and again they would allow them to have treatment. You actually can have it once a year providing they have funds, and some people do that, which makes it harder for those people that really need it. But again, it's not about a divine power, it's about the individual wanting to stop, you know. Nine times out of 10 an individual finds himself in the jail cell, looking at some time, realizes that this disease has really beat him. The first thing he does when he gets in front of the judge, he says, ``Listen, I'm an addict,'' and I can't remember the number of the law, because I've known about that law, because that is the same law that I used. He says, look, I'm an addict, Judge, I mean, so help me. And he needs TASC evaluation. I wound up in Gateway, but a lot of people don't understand that neither. You know, so a lot of guys in jail don't know about treatment, you know. Have they heard about it, you know. They didn't think it was an alternative for them. Nobody has talked to them about it. There is no education about it. When you're locked up, you're just locked up. They give you three meals a day and a place to sleep, and they lock the door, six by nine cell. That's it. There is no education here. Then you expect that, well, if you send them to the penitentiary, they get down there, and we have all kinds of programs, and all of this that you have a whole lot of people that are illiterate. And some that are not illiterate, but they have been getting high for so long, they just don't care to read anything. They want to get down there, do their time and come on back. And the minute they get back, the first celebration they get is one of their buddies, or somebody that they used to get high with, comes up and says, here, and starts him all over again. You know, there needs to be some provision. There needs to be some intervention, and the only way that will happen is that we start giving more money for treatment. A lot of different places, Haymarket, Gateway, tons and tons of places, actually have preventative programs that they are going out and going to the judge. I can see that, but if you don't have the money to do that, nobody in their right mind is going to listen, and not go to the jail now for free. But nobody in their right mind is going to go and say, listen here, I'd like to, can I get in there and talk with them? You know, they have AA and NA meetings in jail, someone who you can go to and speak. But, those are in specific areas, and specific programs. You know, interventions might have this, and we get a chance to go up there and talk, but that suggests, if they said that they are substance abuse, what about those individuals that have a criminal history of getting high, or getting caught with drugs, and nobody has ever told them that, you know, listen, you need some help, or, let's talk and find out that they do need help, and do some kind of assessment. If there is no money, it won't get done. And you're talking about the criminal justice system, the probation department, TANNON, TASC, and all of these places that provide some kind of service, but they can't provide that service to those individuals, because there is no money. Mr. Souder. Thank you. Mr. Davis. Ms. Matthews, did I understand you to say, or to suggest, that in the State of Illinois there are individuals who can be denied temporary assistance to needy families, although they meet all of the criteria in terms of being needy? Not having a job. Not having any money. But if they have a drug offense, and have been convicted of a drug offense, they can be denied welfare? Ms. Matthews. Yes, in terms of drug felonies, yes. And Illinois I must point out putting welfare reformers first enacted by the States, took the softer, if I may use that phrase, road in terms of drug bans, drug user bans, because there are some States that have harsher bans. However, if you go into treatment, there are other types of qualifications that they have, or criteria, you may be able to meet--and you have a certain level of a drug offense, then you may be able to continue receiving assistance. However, once you have come out of prison, and for many mothers, as many as 10,000 now, their families are vulnerable to this and you have a certain level of a drug conviction on a felony level. The mother is not now eligble, but the children are. But the mother is not any longer eligible necessarily to resume the receipt of TANF or be eligible to apply for it in the first place. And this number is growing, especially since women are the fastest growing segment of the prison population in our State, we are going to presume for drug-related offenses, as reported the Illinois Department of Corrections, in its most recent fiscal year 2001 report. So we have not only individuals who are in danger, but we also have now children; we have children who are in danger because of this particular reform which was, I am sure set up, although with all good intentions of being a deterrent to people becoming drug abusers and also doing crime to obtain money for their drug of choice. But the intents versus the impact and potential harm is what we have to look at. We have to look at the total picture. Mr. Davis. Well, how do we--How do these people live? I mean, people who fall into that category? How do they live? Ms. Matthews. By the grace of God, apparently because it is not from support by--The support that they need is not given by a government or by private industry, and only so much can be done by the community, and family members by themselves. So, it must be by the grace of God. Because it is not by our grace, unfortunately right now, and we need to change that. We need to change that. We are not just talking about one individual, now we are talking about families, we are talking about babies. Mr. Davis. Yes, go ahead. Ms. McDermott. I believe another reason why they are out there surviving also, is they're back in the criminal justice system. As we said, women are multiple consumers of the criminal justice system and are re-incarcerated numerous times. If we took a look at, you know, our population from our day reporting center last year and out of the hundred women, on one given day, the women had been in the Illinois Department of Corrections over a 7-year period three times, or excuse me, two times, and the CCDOC at least three times. So it is five times over 7 years. They're coming in and out of the system. So there is no treatment for them. There is no help. Mr. Davis. You know, I was interested, Ms. Matthews, especially I tried to generate an amendment when we were debating TANF, that would have changed that opportunity for States to make those decisions, of course, like Representative Howard's efforts at expungement, my amendment also failed. Because it seems unconscionable to me that people who are the neediest people that you could put your finger on. I don't know how you get any needier. But out of the penitentiary, no job, no skill, a drug user, no employment, no opportunity, two or three children, and you can't get temporary assistance for needy families. I just can't imagine how we comply with the intent, and yet have those kinds of regulations that those kind of rules, that gives State the flexibility to make those decisions that way. And some States, of course, do, in fact, exercise that flexibility. The other question, Mr. Whitney, Ms. Reid, or Mr. Reyes, how do you--How do we convince a capitalistic society that when we institute these programs, that we are actually making an investment, that we have been taught in America adhering to the concept of capitalism that there is no such thing that there is something for nothing. And that anything you put out, you ought to get something back. And so, how do we convince our society that what we are talking about is really an investment rather than a gift, or giveaway? Or, is it an investment? Mr. Reyes. I reckon the problem is really far deeper than that. You know, we heat up our water for our tea in the morning and we want immediate results. And I think the prior problem is that weakens amounts. Citing statistics and there is numerous studies that will indicate that investing in treatment is certainly cost effective because it is going to save a lot more on incarceration which really doesn't do any good, other than keep somebody locked up for a while. I think the real issue is, we want the immediate gratification in our society. We cannot show any immediate result out of this, because how you show that by investing money in treatment, that person will never go to jail. It's a negative, it's not something you can point to. And I think that's really at the heart of this. Ms. Reid. I think really it's an investment versus a giveaway. What we're talking about today are individuals who have gotten caught up in the criminal justice system. But, I'm certain that the numbers of individuals who haven't gotten caught up in the criminal justice system, who use substances, is equally as great. And that treatment needs to be available as well. So, that individuals who may not have been caught yet, and want to get out of the system can get the treatment that they need to stay out of the criminal justice system, so that it is not precipitating back on our communities. So, I think it is an investment in individuals, regardless of skin color, community, drug abuse and substance abuse doesn't know skin color, it doesn't know age, it just knows a victim. And so unless we invest in the individuals to make sure that they have their treatment. Whether they have gone through the criminal justice system or not, they were giving up on society. So we've got to invest it in the individuals. Mr. Whitney. I have three points which are somewhat related. First, I think that there is some social shift that is occurring. We can use California as an example of that, Proposition 36 was essentially a voter mandate. So, there are obviously areas of the country where the public is deciding that incarceration isn't effective and that treatment is more effective. Now, especially for a State like Illinois where we have a very large urban area, and a very large county justice system. I think we are reaching a point of critical mass, especially here in Cook County. With the jail, and as people begin to see overwhelming numbers who are coming into the system and they hear about recidivism statistics and justice statistics just came out through drug offenders that show, 66 percent of these people will be re-arrested and over half will end up back in prison after 3 years. The numbers get to a point where people realize that this just isn't working. Whatever we are trying, just isn't working. The third, is I really think that we have to involve in our public policy initiatives involvement communities that are in recovery. I mean, I can sit here for hours and rattle off statistics. But when the Reverend comes and tells a story of redemption like his, I mean, because that has far more an impact, so we need to be able to engage those communities and with all of them, and get them invested in the process of shifting otherwise. Mr. Davis. Thank you very much. Ms. Reid. Can I followup? I'm sorry. With the individual, take a casual user, for example, who worked for Enron, lost their job, now has no income and doesn't know how they are going to work. They may get into the system that we are trying to keep them out of. I just want to put a face on that picture. As far as how it can affect us on any given day. You never know who is going to be affected or who is going to be unemployed without income and be forced to go into the criminal justice system to survive, and that ultimately is a substance abuser and caught up in the system. Ms. Matthews. If I may, Congressman, going back to your question of how women are surviving and we are talking about consequences, in addition to one of the industries that is growing, along with the prison industry, which is a $50 billion a year industry now, topped to that one in our country, is the industry of prostitution. Many of the women are surviving economically. Existing if you will. Simply by making choices and I don't absolve individuals of personal choices, but I do know if you have limited options, you make decisions that are not good for yourself and those you love. So there has been a recent study done by the Chicago Coalition on the Homeless in terms of Cook County jails, where they have documented that a good percentage of the women that we are talking about who are drug offenders and have substance abuse challenges are going in and out, and in between, in terms of the economic survival when TANF is not available and other economic opportunities are not available, they are turning more and more to prostitution. So, this is another side effect of policies that may have had good intentions when initially enacted, but the results are sad, very sad and tragic. Ms. McDermott. I would just like to reiterate the statement regarding children, and that is to have policymakers change putting more money into treatment versus incarceration. We look at the statistics and we talk about the females having more children now, three or more, and the research is telling us that these children are six times more likely to be in the criminal justice system themselves, we can just do the addition and figure out what it is going to cost us in the future. This is something that we really have to educate the policymakers and public; I think it is critical, I think it is important that all is realized what those dollars are going to be, some things have done. Mr. Davis. Well, thank you all and I would also like to acknowledge the presence of Ms. Alda Whitler, who is the under Sheriff of Cook County. And also Reverend O.B. Hendricks from the Progressive Way Church of God and Christ, that I saw just a couple of minutes ago. So, thank you both for being here. Mr. Souder. I have a couple more questions. What is the-- Why are so many more women getting arrested now than they were before? Ms. McDermott. Drug laws. Basically, drug laws. Mr. Souder. Are you saying that they were abusing the drugs before, but there weren't laws against them? Ms. McDermott. Yes. Mr. Souder. Was there a particular point when the--was it an enforcement change or a law change? Ms. McDermott. Law changes. National law changes. Mr. Souder. I don't think it was ever legal to use drugs. Ms. McDermott. No, the mandatory amendments. Mr. Souder. So, it's an enforcement procedure on mandatory minimums? Ms. McDermott. Yes. Mr. Souder. That were the--have you seen a change in the sense of grandmothers being able to take care of the kids? Ms. McDermott. We have--at one time or another we had three generations in the jail. Grandmothers, mothers, and daughters. And this is becoming quite a problem. Three generations at once. The wealthy, and caretakers primarily are relatives. Unless they've gone to prison, and the DCFS takes over. Mr. Souder. Is there a flexibility in Illinois law that would allow the payments to go to the caretaker? Ms. McDermott. I'm not sure. Ms. Matthews. Mr. Chairman, the case, where there are actually foster parents or someone who the responsibility of being the guardians. We do have cases that they call child only cases. But again, that is part of a possible solution to see more flexibility. Also, you have the issue of mothers, their parental rights have been taken away once they are incarcerated. Whether they want them to or not, if they do not have a situation where there is someone who can step up, who is a relative or not, you know, take care of your children, while you are incarcerated. So you are seeing the severing of parental rights going on also as a result of law changes, so that this is a--This is a public policy in terms of impact tradgedy. Mr. Souder. Isn't it true that relatives, though, don't get compensation from the State? Ms. Matthews. No, they don't. Mr. Souder. I mean, relatives---- Ms. Matthews. They get a lower level of compensation, if any, but the preference is not to provide them with that type of support. You have many grandparents. Grandparents, quite frankly, helped to save welfare reform in this country. And they are the ones who are taking care of the children and they can't do it without more assistance, and also it's unfair to ask them to. And it's again not the issue. The issue is that we have laws that initially had good intent that don't work. They are not producing the results that we want. And private industry, when you have a product that is not producing, or a service that is not producing what we want, you go back to the drawing board and you change it. You re-look at it. And that is why we are happy that you're here to re-look, and potentially to what we are talking about that has happened as a result of policies in the 1980's, the 1990's, and also in this century, too. Mr. Souder. It's a--and I don't mean to engage or get in a policy debate, but I would argue that the previous welfare system was a total failure in that what we have now is a total failure in the highest risk groups, but has actually worked well for marginal groups. And what we now have to figure out in this mix, because, in fact, we have moved a significant percentage of the population off of welfare who have come into dependency, and I don't think any social science observer who doesn't have an ideological cut can argue that the current system for them. If you took a media outreach, it is worse off than the system that was before it. And that is why we made the shift. But I would argue, and I don't necessarily disagree that in those who are mirrored in it, that we have fewer ways with which to get out, particularly years ago before the current welfare changes in a process of dealing with the highest risk populations when I was a staffer on juvenile delinquency and in welfare reform. And part of the problem is, what do you do when somebody has really hit the bottom? What do you do when they don't have extended families and they move to multiple places where they're not really particularly wanting to go to church. They don't--neighbors don't particularly want them there. Their relatives don't particularly want them, we've heard that on a couple of panels. When somebody hits the bottom, what do we do? And then also in that population, to some degree, I will grant that the welfare reform statistics look better because the economy was stronger in the last stretch. And that while sometimes programs can look worse when the economy--in other words, the numbers to some degree get hooked by other numbers and aren't directly relevant then. Somewhere in between I think we made some progress, but we're trying to figure out now how do you deal with the people where the rising tide didn't lift them, and where it's fairly disorganized and we have to look for creative ways to do that. We don't want to change, bottom line, and here I am certainly speaking for the majority of Congress, because it didn't and what we need to do is increase sensitivity with it, is how we can, not change the social statement that drugs are wrong, that not change a incentive system and yet realize when somebody, as we heard in the Reverend's personal testimony, that when your life is in a fog, you're not just going to have the normal reactions to what we think are motivations. In other words, just be incarcerated, just being told that what you did was wrong is not going to change you. Second, because you have issues, which as a suburban valley girl term, in addition to her term, that have to be worked through, and it's also not going to be true and I certainly support it and work with the Europe programs and other, it's not going to be just enough to say, oh, you're clean now, good luck, because often, nobody wants to employ them. They don't have enough certain education skills, a variety of things that need to be created. But we need to look at some ways that, because with all due respect, and what we need out of private communities like this, if you're going to reach and get policy changes in the law, is to figure out how to get that compromised. I mean, I think it is intriguing to look at other caregivers, clearly I visited and participated in transition housing programs, I have heard--I was a Republican staff director with the Children Youth and Family Committee and the House, and I've heard social service people tell me over and over for 15 years, as well as my boss, that you save this much money by doing preventive programs as opposed to incarceration. If that were true, let me assure you that every politician and his brother would want to save the money. The fact is, it's a tad more complicated than that. The savings accrue to multiple agencies, State, Federal and local levels, and the cost accrues to whatever is the person doing. Therefore, no particular branch of government, no particular private sector group make that, because we can't figure out how to share the responsibility of the cost as opposed to the gain. Now, we've made some progress of that. Let me give you a very practical example. If we concentrate on people who are incarcerated, we know what the universe is, and that we all agree it's too late. But only even in the worst situations, there is one study that shows, that if your--both parents have been in jail, if both parents are drug addicts, if neither parent graduated from high school. If neither person has a job. It's the absolute worst thing. One third of those kids will never hit the juvenile system in a tough way because somebody will reach out to them at church, a neighbor, a coach at school, something will happen which means that in prevention-- that some of the people in a prevention program will never hit the Federal payroll or for State. Some of those in those areas may hit it lightly, may get arrested once or twice, and don't go through. So the cost variable is really tough and to the rate that we can tackle it, what we know in Congress, and this is our biggest challenge, that while, what's happened is there is a small but growing group of people who have been left completely behind who are disorganized, who are the poor souls in the country, and that whether or not it became a risk, some people say, well, just wall them off, leave them in West Chicago, or other places, not only may it not happen, it is not an ethical solution, and so that what we need to look at are some creative ways to tackle this. And the hard part is, those are the hardest people. They're the hardest people to get through job training. The reason they didn't make it through school is that they had tough things that, maybe third generation in my land, if your great-grandmother, your mom, your grandma and you are all in prison, what chance does the next generation have there? I mean, I hear a lot of people saying, oh, these problems are in the suburbs, too. Let me guarantee you they are not in the suburbs to the same extent. I don't know anybody whose grandma and mom and child that is in prison together. And you can't have a system where you're simultaneously saying, oh, it's exactly the same out in the suburbs as here, but it's not exactly the same out in the suburbs as here. There are higher risk situations, you can't say all we need is more money here, but our problems are the same as everywhere. The problems are, in fact, concentrated. There are different types of problems elsewhere. Obviously, the executives at Enron could use an ethical lesson as well, that is just as catastrophic to the society. But it's a different set. And so the type of testimony you gave us today is helpful in a degree you can push us understanding that dilemma of--we are--That the reason politicians, may not say suddenly, oh, we're going to change some of these laws we looked at. We need to look at creative ways is because the people who elected me don't want them changed. Because they don't fully understand it, so you've got to come up with a way that can explain to a broad sense of the population, ways that can work, and can fit in their stereotypes; as well as Congressman Davis and others, brings it up in committee all the time, until he is a pain in the neck, and so he brings it up on the floor, and he says, look, the people in my area have this problem, and you may not know about it. And that's another way to do it. So, sorry I didn't mean to preach because that's not my goal here today, but so you can hear a balance. How do we tackle this? This is not easy, and it has to be frustrating at your level, because, you go, look, we know all these problems and nobody will listen to us. And we can tackle it, what we know in Congress, and this is our chance to do good. Ms. Matthews. Thank you, thank you for all of what you said, and for being--offering this opportunity to come. I just wanted to say one thing if I may. The one third, that you're talking about. The grace of God effect, sort of reaches out to them and intervenes so they don't get caught up. And we sometimes, you've heard them to the talented tenth who chose themselves. But I will say this, it has reached a critical mass and the impact in terms of numbers in many of the communities. We are talking about collateral damage and it won't be that church, that preacher, it won't be that teacher, it won't be that business person, because something finally in the business ownership left these communities sometime ago. So, on one hand I applaud what you're saying in terms of the hopefulness and the fact that not all are going to be caught up in this mess. On the same point, we are talking about the glass; people who refer to the glass as being half empty and half full. I don't look at it that way anymore. I look at who's in the glass and if they're drowning. So thank you very much for this opportunity. Mr. Souder. I think one of the biggest challenges is the very opportunities in opening up more jobs for minorities and enabling them to move out of certain areas. I have a close friend who basically--I mean, one of the difficult things is for middle class African-Americans, as well as Hispanics, when they get the opportunity to leave, what obligations do they have in the neighborhoods that they left behind, and the question of why would you if you had an opportunity to get or stay. In fact, one of the most interesting studies that was ever attempted which turned out to be a flop as a study, was that they told the project over by Robert Taylor Homes, and one of the things that they found in trying to do integrative services because one of the big ideas a long time ago when Thompson was Governor, was to try--it was the first State--here to try to integrated all the services to target. Let's follow these kids from the time the mom gets pregnant, until we can follow through afterwards. But they found out was that if a mom from Robert Taylor Homes was interested enough to go to the program for prenatal care, the first thought she was, was I want out of Robert Taylor Homes, and that they didn't stay in the neighborhood to be able to track them, and so part of our problem, the good part is more people have escaped. The problem is those who are behind, then when they come out of the prisons, they go back into that neighborhood, and every city in the country, now that we've had people in the prisons, a higher percentage due to the mandatory minimums, and they haven't gotten the education, they haven't gotten their treatment, and now they're even more discouraged when they come out and putting them back into the neighborhoods that have been working to try to rehab themselves, and what are we doing about it. The Justice Department has multiple pioneer projects right now to try to figure out what are we going to do, this is a new variation to our problem in the last 5 years. When people say, what do you do about drug abuse, what do you do about child abuse, what do you do about rape, if you just at look your failures, you get really depressed. The truth is that every area, Robert Woodson told me this, he said, ``Don't be a typical white guy who sits on your duff and pronounces what you want in the urban areas, go out and visit people, and everywhere you will find a rose blooming somewhere, we've got to figure out how to define those, build on them and find the programs that are working and they can do it because we can do it and if we give up hope, then we will wind up walling off certain communities which you can't afford to do.'' Thank you once again. Mr. Davis. Well, let me just, in terms of closing comment, let me make some acknowledgments. I want to thank the members of the committee staff for helping us make sure that this could happen, and for working with my staff, especially, you all in the Washington office, and Tumia Romero here in our district office, because without staff work, you are never able to put these things together, and when staffs do good work, then, of course, they can happen, and everybody can benefit. I also would like to acknowledge the presence of our district director, I saw Dan Contrale, who is the District Director of our staff here in the district office. I want to thank all of the witnesses who have come to testify, as well as those of you who have come to be a part of the discussion. As I listen to the chairman express his understanding of the issues, and how difficult it is to bring about change, Mr. Chairman, I become more and more appreciative of your efforts. Because when you deal with a country as diverse as the United States of America, and you deal with the notion and concept of the democracy really being what you can extract from your peers. Not the notion that there is something going to be available, that is often times, a misconception of how democracy really works. I mean, democracy works essentially the way that Frederick Douglas suggested that it work. And that is struggle, struggle, stride and pain. Are the prerequisites for change. If there is no struggle, then there is no progress, and so struggling with social policy to try and effectuate they may be talented, but then there is some individuals who have the resilience I've known individuals who come out of the very worst environment that you could possibly have, and just do extremely well in a number of things. Then I know other individuals who come out of a limited environment where the broader environment captures their imagination and they get caught up in the broad environment and don't make it. Which really means that you have to change the total environment in order to create the kind of playing field where every individual has optimal opportunity. I agree that there are individuals who escape and move, but the question becomes what about those who are left behind. You can't move a community out of a community. Individuals can move out of communities, part of the problem with the early war and poverty programs were not that the programs didn't work for some individuals, they did. But they didn't work for some communities. As individuals would benefit, they would leave the communities, and when they left the communities would be worse than they were before they left, because they were the individuals who were the strongest, who were the brightest, who were the most upward mobile, who could take advantage of programs and projects and efforts and move away and do well for themselves. But just doing all right for someone's self is not really the motivation. Trying to make America become the kind of America that it has never been, but yet has the potential of being. That really is the goal, and it's through these processes of interaction through these different levels of understanding. Through the experiences of different individuals who can inspire and motivate. And, yes, through all of the other processes that are necessary in terms of the politics of voting, the politics of power, the politics of influence, the politics of majority minority. All of it becomes part of what happens. And so, Mr. Chairman, I can't thank you enough for making yourself available, for making the committee and its staff and the staff resources available to come and listen and hear and go back with further understanding. Ending with the notion that as a society, when we reach the point where we can say, If I can help somebody, as I pass along. If I can cheer somebody with a word or song. Then my living, whether I'm an agency director, whether I'm an average citizen, whether I am a Member of Congress, whether I am the President of the United States, if I can help move America out of yesterday into tomorrow, then my work, my living, and my effort will not be in vain. Thank you so much. Mr. Souder. I thank you for being part of our national debate. If you have any additional statements or information you want to put into our record, and any of the others in the audience want to do so, to Congressman Davis, our record will be left open for a number of days. With that the hearing stands adjourned. [Whereupon, the subcommittee was adjourned.] [Additional information submitted for the hearing record follows:] [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.043 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.044 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.045 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.046 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.047 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.048 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.049 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.050 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.051 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.052 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.053 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.054 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.055 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.056 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.057 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.058 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.059 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.060 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.061 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.062 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.063 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.064 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.065 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.066 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.067 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.068 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.069 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.070 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.071 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.072 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.073 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.074 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.075 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.076 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.077 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.078 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.079 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.080 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.081 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.082 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.083 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.084 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.085 [GRAPHIC] [TIFF OMITTED] T7384.086 -