[Senate Hearing 111-395]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 111-395
COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM: FAITH-BASED PERSPECTIVES
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
SUBCOMMITTEE ON IMMIGRATION,
REFUGEES AND BORDER SECURITY
of the
COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
OCTOBER 8, 2009
__________
Serial No. J-111-56
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on the Judiciary
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COMMITTEE ON THE JUDICIARY
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont, Chairman
HERB KOHL, Wisconsin JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah
RUSSELL D. FEINGOLD, Wisconsin CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York JON KYL, Arizona
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
BENJAMIN L. CARDIN, Maryland JOHN CORNYN, Texas
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island TOM COBURN, Oklahoma
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota
EDWARD E. KAUFMAN, Delaware
ARLEN SPECTER, Pennsylvania
AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
Bruce A. Cohen, Chief Counsel and Staff Director
Matt Miner, Republican Chief Counsel
------
Subcommittee on Immigration, Refugees and Border Security
CHARLES E. SCHUMER, New York, Chairman
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont JOHN CORNYN, Texas
DIANNE FEINSTEIN, California CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
RICHARD J. DURBIN, Illinois JON KYL, Arizona
SHELDON WHITEHOUSE, Rhode Island JEFF SESSIONS, Alabama
AL FRANKEN, Minnesota
Stephanie Marty, Democratic Chief Counsel
Matthew L. Johnson, Republican Chief Counsel
C O N T E N T S
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STATEMENTS OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS
Page
Cornyn, Hon. John, a U.S. Senator from the State of Texas........ 4
Leahy, Hon. Patrick J., a U.S. Senator from the State of Vermont,
prepared statement............................................. 152
Schumer, Hon. Charles E., a U.S. Senator from the State of New
York........................................................... 1
Sessions, Hon. Jeff, a U.S. Senator from the State of Alabama.... 5
WITNESS
Anderson, Leith, Senior Pastor, Wooddale Church, Eden Prairie,
Maintenance.................................................... 8
Gerson, Michael, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for Global
Affairs, Washington, D.C....................................... 7
McCarrick, His Eminence Theodore, Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus,
Diocese of Washington, Washington, D.C......................... 10
Rodriguez, Reverend Samuel, President, National Hispanic
Christian Leadership Conference, Sacramento, California........ 12
Tolle, James, Senior Pastor, The Church on the Way, Van Nuys,
California..................................................... 13
QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
Responses of Leith Anderson to questions submitted by Senator
Sessions....................................................... 20
Responses of Michael Gerson to questions submitted by Senator
Sessions....................................................... 29
Responses of His Eminence Theodore McCarrick to questions
submitted by Senator Sessions.................................. 30
Responses of Reverend Samuel Rodriguez to questions submitted by
Senator Sessions............................................... 33
Responses of James Tolle to questions submitted by Senator
Sessions....................................................... 34
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Anderson, Leith, Senior Pastor, Wooddale Church, Eden Prairie,
Maintenance, statement......................................... 41
Anti-Defamation League, Washington, D.C., statement.............. 45
Catholic Charities USA, Baltimore, Maryland, statement........... 47
Center for Immigration Studies, Washington, D.C.:
Catholics, Immigration, and the Common Good, August 2009,
article.................................................... 51
A Biblical Perspective on Immigration Policy, September 2009,
article.................................................... 61
No `Progress by Pesach', August 2009, article................ 73
Foltin, Richard T., Esq., Director, American Jewish Committee,
Washington, D.C., statement.................................... 101
Friends Committee on National Legislation, Washington, D.C.,
statement...................................................... 106
Gerson, Michael, Senior Research Fellow, Institute for Global
Affairs, Washington, D.C., statement........................... 108
Hybels, Lynne and Bill, Willow Creek Community Church, South
Barrington, Illinois, statement................................ 110
Individual, Local and State Faith Statement...................... 115
Interfaith Immigration Coalition, San Francisco, California,
statement...................................................... 136
Interfaith Platform on Human Immigration Reform, statement....... 138
Lutheran Immigration and Refugee Service, Baltimore, Maryland,
statement...................................................... 153
McCarrick, His Eminence Theodore, Cardinal Archbishop Emeritus,
Diocese of Washington, Washington, D.C., statement............. 155
National Faith Statement, misc. letters.......................... 173
National Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference, Sacramento,
California, letter............................................. 200
Network, A National Catholic Social Justice Lobby, Washington,
D.C., letter................................................... 202
Pelavin, Mark J., Associate Director, Religious Action Center of
Reform Judaism, Washington, D.C., statement.................... 203
Sisters of Mercy of the Americas, Silver Spring, Maryland, letter 205
Steinlight, Stephen, Center for Immigration Studies, Washington,
D.C., letter................................................... 206
Tolle, James, Senior Pastor, The Church on the Way, Van Nuys,
California, statement.......................................... 212
COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM: FAITH-BASED PERSPECTIVES
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THURSDAY, OCTOBER 8, 2009
U.S. Senate
Subcommittee on Immigration,
Refugees and Border Security
Committee on the Judiciary
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:10 p.m., in
room SD-226, Dirksen Senate Office Building, Hon. Charles
Schumer, Chairman of the Subcommittee, presiding.
Present: Senators Sessions and Cornyn.
OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. CHARLES SCHUMER, A U.S. SENATOR FROM
THE STATE OF NEW YORK
Chairman Schumer. The hearing will come to order. I want to
welcome our guests and my colleagues. We have two more
witnesses that are on their way from Senator Grassley's office
right now. So we will begin because time is of the essence for
everyone.
Before I begin, I want to extend the good wishes of our
Chair, Senator Leahy, who I believe was here. Said hello to
you, Cardinal, and maybe said hello to the other witnesses as
well. And he has a statement which, without objection we'll
submit for the record.
[The prepared statement of Chairman Leahy appears as a
submission for the record.]
Chairman Schumer. I am going to be brief to accommodate the
travel schedules of a few of our witnesses who were generous
enough to come and have flights to catch and other events to
attend this afternoon. But I want to welcome all of our
witnesses.
For the past few months this Committee has held hearings
and invited America's foremost immigration experts to discuss
the most difficult problems that exist in our current
immigration system and to propose solutions for reform. As a
result of this process this Committee has seen the many ways in
which America's immigration system is broken. I think we all
agree to that. And just about everyone in the country thinks it
needs fixing, will have different views as to how, but no one
is happy with the present system.
More needs to be done, of course, to secure our borders,
prevent businesses from hiring illegal workers, and track
people who are in the country to determine whether they are
here legally or illegally are a few examples. More also must be
done to encourage the worlds' best and brightest individuals to
come to the United States and create the new technologies in
businesses that will employ countless American workers.
At the same time, it is my belief we must also convert the
current flow of low-skilled, illegal immigration into a more
manageable and controlled flow of legal immigrants who can be
absorbed by our economy.
The good news is that we have learned through these
hearings that we possess the technological capability and
administrative know-how to solve many of these serious
problems. And the comments of my colleagues in this Committee
reflect consensus as to how to fix our broken immigration
system to improve our security, help our economy and remain
true to America's tradition of welcoming immigrants to our
shores.
I have always believed that the American people are both,
pro-legal immigration and anti-illegal immigration. The
American people will accept practical legislation that
authorizes the current population of illegal immigrants to
obtain legal immigration status, but only if they are convinced
we are fully committed both resource-wise and politically to
prevent future waves of illegal immigration. But even though we
know the problems and actually agree on many of the solutions,
we have all seen, in the past few months, how the political
discourse and the public discourse have reflected increasing
hostility toward immigration in general and immigrants in
particular regardless of their legal status.
The tone of this debate has led some to ask whether this is
indeed the best time to be talking about fixing our broken
immigration system. And whether at this particular moment
immigration is simply a third rail which any public official
broaches at their peril.
Well, if you ask me, I think this is the right time to deal
with immigration reform.
And, today, for the first time, the National Association of
Evangelicals has made history and officially announced its
support for immigration reform. The National Association of
Evangelicals is the leading voice of the American evangelical
community. It represents 30 million paritioners in over 45,000
churches from over 40 evangelical denominations. This
announcement is, in my view, a significant step forward toward
finally achieving the enactment of much needed immigration
reform this Congress.
It is now no longer possible to think of immigration as an
issue that only matters to the Latino community. As these
witnesses attest, this issue crosses faith lines, party lines,
ideological lines. The evangelicals' community support for
immigration reform is a moral imperative for all people of
faith, shows that a broad coalition of Americans now believe
what Pastor Joel Hunter eloquently told this Committee in
April, quote, ``[T]he urgency for immigration reform cannot be
overstated because it is so overdue.''
Just like many Americans turn to their religious leaders
for guidance on the most important decisions in their lives,
all of us in this room and in this country can learn a
tremendous amount by turning to the distinguished witnesses on
this panel for their unique insight and counsel on how we could
address this important issue that will affect America's future
for decades to come.
For this reason we are asking them to give us their best
pastoral counseling on how to move forward with immigration
policy that Americans will embrace and that will finally
provide the long overdue forums we desperately need.
These leaders are here to remind all of us that the same
immigrants who many are so quick to demonize are the very
people who often most embody the spirit of America. The leaders
of this panel can tell you that immigrants they have met and
counseled have a deep and abiding religious faith. They can
tell you stories about immigrants in their communities who
demonstrate strong work ethic, entrepreneurship, and commitment
to individual responsibility. And they have seen first-hand the
strong family values that exist within immigrant communities
which serve to reinforce all Americans' commitment to family
values. These leaders understand that because immigrants are
first and foremost human beings, made in God's image, many of
whom came here to feed their families, it's critical that
civility guides our rhetoric whenever we discuss immigration.
Any attempt to enact long-needed reforms to our immigration
system will not succeed unless our friends, neighbors and
colleagues believe we are not motivated by a desire to destroy
the fabric of America, but rather to fix a broken system that
is tragically leading to the creation of broken people, broken
families, and broken communities.
So, I am glad to be here. We have several distinguished
witnesses to counsel us as how to best conduct the ongoing
immigration debate going forward and how they think we should
reform the system to fix the problems they encounter on a daily
basis.
I look forward with great interest to their testimony. And
I want to recognize all of the religious groups that have
submitted statements in support of comprehensive immigration
reform.
For the record, I will ask unanimous consent to submit
these statements and make them part of the record. They include
the American Jewish Community, the Interfaith Immigration
Coalition, the Sisters of Mercy of America, the Friends
Committee on National Legislation, the Network of National
Catholic Social Justice Lobby, the Union for Reform Judaism,
the Anti-Defamation League. All of these groups and many others
have been and will continue to be critical players in any
discussion regarding immigration reform.
[The prepared statements appears as a submission for the
record.]
Chairman Schumer. I want to especially point out a historic
statement sent to us by Pastor Bill Hybels of the Willow Creek
Community Church in Illinois, one of the largest and most
important evangelical churches in America, who along with his
wife Lynn Hybels wanted to be here today but could not due to
missionary work they're conducting in Africa. They indicate as
follows, quote, ``Bill and I are committed to immigration
reform and hope it will pass Congress soon. We believe that
most Americans would be moved to pass comprehensive immigration
reform if they could see the faces of immigration as we have
seen them.'' unquote.
I ask unanimous consent that this statement be added to the
record as well and recognize Senator Cornyn for an opening
statement.
[The prepared statement of Pastor Hybels appears as a
submission for the record.]
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN CORNYN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
TEXAS
Senator Cornyn. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If there is a
group that is in need of pastoral counseling, it is the U.S.
Congress. I can attest to that.
But I want to welcome all of the witnesses for being here
today. Thank you for your insights. I want to acknowledge some
who, like Senator Schumer said, couldn't be here. For example,
Reverend Louis Cortez who I met with recently in my office and
others with Esperanza.
I want to also acknowledge other important people in the
faith community who I have had a chance to talk about this
subject at length with like Archbishop Gomez, Father Elasando,
and others.
We know our Nation was founded by immigrants many of whom
came to this country seeking religious freedom. Four hundred
years ago the Puritans were persecuted by their government in
England. They sought a new life where they could practice their
religion in peace. And, of course, we know their story aboard
the Mayflower and when they got here one of the first things
they did was to create the Mayflower Compact, one of the first
written constitutions in North America.
The Mayflower Compact established the principle that
religious freedom and democratic governance go hand in hand. A
principle later enshrined in our own constitution.
That first generation of immigrants set a good example, I
believe. Today the United States of America welcomes immigrants
from all over the world, respects traditions of many faiths,
and defends and upholds the rule of law. Today leaders of faith
communities offer a valuable perspective on their experience
with the consequences of the current broken system.
As Senator Schumer knows in 2005 Senator Jon Kyl and I
introduced, I think, one of the most--one of the first
comprehensive immigration reform bills in this last decade,
something we called ``The Comprehensive Border and Security
Immigration Reform Act of 2005;'' which addressed all
components of what I think we need to address in dealing with
this challenging system.
I remain convinced that Congress needs to act on reform.
The problem we had the last couple of times we tried to do this
is I don't think the American people trust us when it comes to
do some very basic things. For example, to enforce our laws, to
secure our borders, and the like. I believe if they had greater
confidence in their Congress and their elected representatives,
they would recognize the challenging situation we find
ourselves in with some 12 million non-citizens here who live in
great fear and threat. The current broken system is bad for
everyone, but particularly bad for undocumented immigrants who
are here in this country.
I think of a young woman who is the victim of domestic
violence who is afraid to turn to the police because of the
consequences it might have for her; the worker who works for
cash from an employer who then denies him his fair wages
because that employer knows they have no where to turn because
they don't have the protection of our laws being here in
violation of our immigration laws; and others who like the
immigrant who comes into our country in the hands of a coyote
who cares nothing for their life, but for whom that means
nothing but a paycheck. All of these individuals are victims of
our broken immigration system and our need to restore order out
of chaos and to restore the rule of law and to regain the
confidence of the American people.
So I think immigration reform has to secure our borders,
has to facilitate the legitimate trade in commerce, has to
enhance our global competitiveness, has to strengthen and
simplify the employment verification and eligibility rules, it
has to uphold the rule of law more generally and develop a
practical and compassionate solution for the current situation
for those who are here as non-citizens who I described earlier.
And, ultimately, to restore public confidence that Congress is
competent and interested, not only in dealing with the problem
on the front end, but following through and actually see that
what we pass into law is implemented by appropriate oversight
and appropriations and the like.
So we will be looking to each of our witnesses for their
counsel. But we will also be looking to you for your leadership
after we have new laws on our books.
You can help the members of your faith community understand
what they need to do in order to comply with whatever new laws
that we put on the books. And you can help them understand what
services are available to them if they comply with our laws.
And you can help Congress understand how immigration reform is
working in your communities and whether we will need to make
additional changes as I am sure we will over time.
So at the end of the day, I think we are talking about a
core responsibility of the Federal government. That is to
create an immigration system that is lawful, brings order out
of chaos and protects the most vulnerable in our society.
Faith communities and other organizations can be helpful
partners. But I want to say I also think it's not responsible
of Congress to impose on others, non- governmental
organizations, the duties that we properly bear as elected
representatives and officials in the Federal government.
Accountability for success squarely rests with us here in
Washington, the elected representatives of the American people.
So I thank all of you for joining us here today and I look
forward to your testimony and your answers to our questions.
And thank you, again, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership on
having what I think have been a series of productive hearings.
I look forward to working with you to accomplish our common
goal.
Chairman Schumer. Senator Sessions, would you like to make
an opening statement?
STATEMENT OF HON. JEFF SESSIONS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF ALABAMA
Senator Sessions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think a number
of our witnesses in their statements that I have had a chance
to review some, some of them in some depth are correct to say
that every soul, every individual is a child of God and
deserves great respect and humane treatment, and that is a
challenge all of us have. And so I think a lot of the anger
that is out there should not be interpreted so much as an anger
against immigrants or anger against certain individuals. But I
do think a lot of it is directed at us in Congress. Because the
American people concluded rightly, I believe, last time that we
were proposing a legalization scheme for people who were here
illegally and suggestions and promotions that we were
developing a system that would work in the future was wrong and
I don't think it would have worked.
So, gosh, Mr. Chairman, you've said some good things about
how we have to work, what we are going to have to do. But I am
not going to be supportive of any plan that is going to, in
effect, legalize millions of people and then send a signal that
our borders remain open still and attract even more millions.
So we are having this problem again. So how we work our way
through it, I don't know, but it needs to be done in the right
spirit. And I appreciate each of you for sharing your thoughts.
Chairman Schumer. Thank you, Senator Sessions. I do agree
with you that we have to convince Americans that there will not
be future waves of illegal immigrants in order to succeed with
the present group that are both here and future people who
might come.
Senator Sessions. I agree with you.
Chairman Schumer. We have a very distinguished panel. I am
honored, I think we are all honored to have all of you here and
very much appreciate your caring and your taking the time. That
is panel will really help us come together on immigration. So
we appreciate it.
I am going to give a brief introduction to each of our five
panelists and then let them proceed. And your entire statements
will be read into the record fully. And so you may proceed as
you wish once we finish the introductions.
First, Michael Gerson is a Senior Research Fellow at the
Institute for Global Engagement, Center on Faith and
International Affairs. He is also a Washington Post columnist
who writes about politics, global health, development in
religion and foreign policy. I for one enjoy and look forward
to your columns all the time, even if I don't agree with every
one of them.
He served as a policy advisor and chief speech writer to
President Bush from 2000 to 2006 and has been recognized by
Time Magazine as one of the 25 most influential evangelicals in
America.
Pastor Leith Anderson is President of the National
Association of Evangelicals which represents the interests of
the churches of over 30 million--of the churches that over 30
million Christians attend every Sunday. He is also the senior
pastor of the Wooddale Church, one of the largest churches in
Minnesota. He has published many periodicals and has written
ten books. I admire anyone who has written any book. I wrote
one and it's very hard to do. So, very impressive as well.
His Eminence, Cardinal Theodore Edgar McCarrick is a well-
known figure, of course, to many of us. He has served as
Archbishop of Washington from 2001 to 2006. Now serves as
Archbishop Emeritus of Washington, D.C. And for the last 40
years he has been a leading voice in the Roman Catholic Church
on all of the important issues of our time.
Cardinal McCarrick recently presided at the funeral of our
dear colleague, Senator Kennedy, who we all miss tremendously.
And we know Senator Kennedy would be thrilled to see you here
today, Cardinal.
Reverend Samuel Rodriguez is the President of the National
Hispanic Christian Leadership Conference. An organization that
represents approximately 15 million Hispanic Christians in
issues of leadership, fellowship, networking partnerships and
public policy. He was named by Newsweek Magazine as the
religious leader to look for in 2008. So we have both Newsweek
and Time represented here today.
Pastor James Tolle is the Senior Pastor of The Church on
the Way in Van Nuys, California. That is one of the largest
churches in America with over 20,000 members. It has been
recognized in several publications as one of the most
influential churches in America, and one of the fastest growing
churches in America. When you are that big, it is hard to be
one of the fastest growing. So that is a major accomplishment.
We are really honored to have all five of you here today.
As I said, your entire statement will be read into the record.
And we will just go from left--my left to my right.
So, Mr. Gerson, you may proceed.
STATEMENT OF MICHAEL GERSON, SENIOR RESEARCH FELLOW, INSTITUTE
FOR GLOBAL ENGAGEMENT AND INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, WASHINGTON,
D.C.
Mr. Gerson. Mr. Chairman, Senators, thank you. There is no
more important difficult task than defining the American
community and determining how we treat those who wish to join
it. This work has many economic and national security
implications. I believe that a relatively open immigration
system ultimately is good for the economy though it causes
dislocations that must be addressed.
I believe that an orderly guest-worker system would make it
easier to have an orderly border.
But the debate on immigration is not nearly utilitarian.
Not just a matter of costs and benefits. It also concerns our
deepest values as a people; values often informed by faith.
Concerning one issue in particular those values are
urgently needed. Sometimes the real passion in the immigration
debate is not economic, but cultural. A fear that American
unity and identity are being diluted by Latino immigration.
Samuel Huntington of Harvard has claimed that Mexican
migration compromise the quote, ``core of American culture
identity.'' Which he calls, quote, ``a Protestant society.''
During the last immigration debate this charge took cruder
forms with some commentators warning that immigration reform
would quote, ``erase America.'' And this argument on the
fringes has sometimes become a cover for raw bigotry. With
Hispanics called quote, ``leaches'' and ``the world's lowest
primitives,'' and carries of, quote, ``the fajita flu.''
On this matter religious people have no choice but to speak
because these arguments are entirely false, inconsistent with
the teachings of faith, and destructive to American ideals.
First, you are forced to speak when your neighbors are
libeled. It is true that Latinos in some ways are different
from mainstream culture. Higher percentages attend church
regularly. Higher percentages of Latin immigrants are married.
Lower percentages are divorced. These differences hardly
threaten our unit or identity.
Every new immigrant group has challenges. But Latinos,
including illegal immigrants often display values emblematic of
America, risking much for the sake of economic and political
freedom. They make our country more, not less American.
Second, people of faith believe that the image of God is
universal and uniform. That a passport or a Green Card does not
confer human worth and dignity. It is a principle that forbids
dismissive abstractions. No one is an ``illegal.'' They are
human beings with stories and struggles. Every alien is also a
neighbor.
This concern for individual dignity requires the making of
certain moral distinctions. People of faith affirm the
importance of the rule of law. But the law is made for human
beings, not human beings for the law.
A young woman who dies in that desert during a perilous
crossing for the dream of living in America is not the moral
equivalent of a drug dealer. And millions of hardworking,
religious, family oriented neighbors make unlikely criminals.
The biblical tradition teaches a positive duty to care for
the stranger in our midst. Christian ministries provide help to
anyone, whatever their legal status. Because if righteousness
were the requirement for mercy, none of us would deserve or
receive mercy. And it is a great theme of the biblical story
that God's purposes are often fulfilled through refugees--in
Egypt, in the wilderness, in Babylon, in the flight from Herod,
in the temporary troubled kingdoms of this world. These beliefs
do not translate simplistically into open borders and amnesty.
They do mean, however, that immigrants should never be used as
objects of organized anger or singled out for prejudice and
harm.
Finally, the argument for national unity based on birth and
background is inconsistent with the American ideal. An ideal
informed by a belief in God-given universal rights. The core of
American identity is not cultural purity. It is social mobility
and shared principles. This model of unity has done better than
any other even after the massive forced migration of slavery
and it is certainly equal to this moment.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Michael Gerson appears as a
submission for the record.]
STATEMENT OF LEITH ANDERSON, SENIOR PASTOR WOODDALE CHURCH,
EDEN PRAIRIE, MINNESOTA
Mr. Anderson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and the Senators for
the opportunity to speak to you on what is a very important
topic. And Senator Schumer, you are correct; yes, this is the
time. This is the time.
I represent the National Association of Evangelicals which
has 40 plus denominations and we think about 45,000 churches.
And we have been through a 2-year process of examining what our
constituency has to say. And that has led to the approval by
our leadership today of a resolution in favor of comprehensive
immigration reform.
Evangelicals have long been engaged in this process. But
one of the things we have increasingly discovered is that they
are us. That is to say, that many of our large denominations
are growing primarily through immigration and that a
significant percentage, in some cases a third to a half of
those that are in evangelical denominations are first-
generation immigrants.
So our churches have long been open to immigrants. We
welcome them. We do not ask someone's status in relationship to
the government for being part of one of our congregations. That
may sound as if an open borders policy is proposed. That is
certainly not the case. We are for strong borders and want the
borders to be regulated and think that is an essential part of
public order.
However, we also, as already stated, value immigrants and
are convinced that they are important to not only the
evangelical churches here represented, but also to the strength
of the United States.
And family values is one of those key elements that there
are not only strong family values that are coming with those
who come into our country, but also that our policy give high
priority to the reunification of families and that that be a
key element in comprehensive immigration reform. And that
relates to the issuing of visas under the current law as well
as any that is proposed.
Occasionally we are asked questions regarding lawbreaking
and are reminded of teaching in the New Testament that those
who are Christians are to be obedient to the law and we
certainly espouse that. Although that is not an absolute
principle. And we also recognize that immigration laws have
changed significantly throughout the history of this country.
And it is the time to change those laws again.
One of our agencies is the World Relief Corporation and
that organization has been strongly active in the relocation of
immigrants since the Immigration Reform and Control Act of
1986. And we have been directly engaged through our churches in
the relocation of 100,000 immigrants into the United States.
A lot of concerns are typically raised including the issue
of jobs and whether or not that will displace current workers.
It is in our opinion something that is different in different
communities. But in the overall perspective that it is good for
our economy to have those who come and are willing to work in
our country.
For employers there has been, as you well know, significant
issues that it is difficult for employers to comply with laws
and therefore those laws need to be changed so the
responsibility does not rest primarily with them.
But often it comes down to real people. So I am a pastor of
a local church in Minneapolis and talked to a woman in our
community who came to the United States as a refugee. She is
legally in the United States as is her family. However, when
her son reaches his 18th birthday it will be necessary for him
to leave to return to Africa to a country where he does not
speak the language or know anyone. And it is just an
illustration of where change is possible.
So we have a growing commitment to the following in our
recent resolution: No. 1, that there be fair and humane
treatment of immigrants; No. 2, that we have strong borders;
No. 3, that we prioritize family reunification; and No. 4, that
we provide a reasonable path to legal status and citizenship
for those who are currently undocumented in the United States.
Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Leith Anderson appears as a
submission for the record.]
STATEMENT OF HIS EMINENCE THEODORE MCCARRICK, CARDINAL
ARCHBISHOP EMERITUS, DIOCESE OF WASHINGTON, WASHINGTON, DC
Cardinal McCarrick. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to
thank Chairman Schumer for having this hearing today and for
his leadership on this very important national issue.
I would also like to thank Senator John Cornyn for being
here and Senator Sessions, I think. It's a sign of the
importance of this very, very key problem that we are facing
and the hope that we can working all together we can find out
some solution for it.
I know that this issue of immigration is important to our
entire country. I rejoice at the great position taken by the
National Association of Evangelicals. They are a very important
group. And the fact that the presentation that Pastor Anderson
made is extremely important for all of us and a great step
forward for the whole country.
Today I am testifying on behalf of the United States
Conference of Catholic Bishops where I serve as a consultant to
the U.S. Bishops Committee on Migration. My views, therefore,
reflect those of my brother bishops across the country.
As a contributor to this debate, the Catholic Church brings
institutional knowledge gained by assisting newcomers for over
200 years in our parishes, social service programs, schools,
and hospitals. More importantly, we also bring the teachings of
the gospel, both the Old and the New Testament in which the
Israelites were told that they too were once aliens in your own
land and where our Savior told us in Saint Matthew's gospel
``to welcome the stranger for what you do for the least of my
brethren you do for me.''
It is from this unique perspective, Mr. Chairman, and while
acknowledging its vast complexities, we look at immigration
through a simple lens. While immigration has social, economic,
and legal aspects which must be addressed in any reform
legislation, from the perspective of Catholic teaching
immigration is ultimately a humanitarian issue. The axis around
which its other aspects should resolve.
In our view immigration laws ultimately must be just by how
they impact the basic dignity and God-given rights to the human
person.
Let me outline for you today, Mr. Chairman, very briefly
what we believe are the elements needed to ensure that any
immigration reform legislation considered by the Committee
meets this standard. These recommendations are outlined in more
detail in my written testimony.
First, we must bring the undocumented population in this
country out of the shadows and give them a chance over time to
achieve permanent residency and citizenship.
Second, we must preserve family unity by strengthening
family based immigration which has served our Nation so well
for decades. Waiting times for families to reunite legally in
our country must be reduced.
Third, we must create legal avenues for migration so that
migrant workers who labor in so many important industries in
our Nation are able to enter the country legally and in a safe
and orderly fashion. This would help reduce the high number of
migrant deaths we see each year on our southern border.
Fourth, we must give immigrants their day in court
consistent with American values by restoring due process
protections removed in 1996 legislation. Asylum seekers and
refugees should also receive special consideration.
Finally, we must work with our neighboring countries in the
international community to address the root causes of
immigration such as economic inequities so that immigrants and
their families ultimately can remain in their home countries
and support their families in dignity. At a minimum, we must
not as an economic super power pursue international economic
and trade policies which leave persons in poor countries
without the means to support their families.
While these recommendations do not reflect the totality of
our concerns, they are areas that at a minimum the U.S. Bishops
believe should be addressed in reform legislation.
Mr. Chairman, I must also address concerns that many
Americans, including Catholics, have concerning the rule of law
and how it applies to immigration. In truth it's the Church's
position in favor of reform seeks to restore the rule of law
and provide order and legality to an otherwise chaotic system.
Our nation requires an immigration system that joins legal
immigration with our long-term economic needs, the principle of
family unity and basic human rights. This will help restore the
rule of law to our immigration system. Now our system
accomplishes none of these--none of these goals as you yourself
pointed out a little while ago.
Our democracy was founded on the premise that unjust and
unworkable laws should be changed for the common good of all.
In this vein we call on our elected officials, not to base
their immigration policies on political views, but to work
together for a just and lasting solution in the best interest
of our Nation.
The Bishops of the United States are hopeful that the
national debate on immigration will focus on the many
contributions that immigrants make to our Nation and not
scapegoat them for unrelated economic or social challenges we
face.
I ask the Subcommittee today to help ensure that the coming
debate refrains from labeling and dehumanizing our brothers and
sisters which the Chairman mentioned so eloquently earlier.
While we may disagree on the substance and merits of a
position, we should never disagree that the conversation should
remain respectful.
As our elected officials, it is your opportunity and
responsibility to lead our Nation toward a humane and just
economic system--immigration system--which both restores the
rule of law and respects the inherent human dignity of the
person created by our creator.
We know it will be a difficult challenge. It will require
patience and forbearance. And I tell you today that the
Catholic Church stands ready to assist in this important and
historic effort so that together we can help to restore with
out brothers here and the other churches that are so joined
vitally with us. We can join to restore America's tradition as
a nation of immigrants founded on the values of fairness,
cooperation, and opportunity.
Thank you very much.
Chairman Schumer. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Cardinal McCarrick appears as a
submission for the record.]
STATEMENT OF THE REVEREND SAMUEL RODRIGUEZ, PRESIDENT, NATIONAL
HISPANIC CHRISTIAN LEADERSHIP CONFERENCE, SACRAMENTO,
CALIFORNIA
Rev. Rodriguez. Mr. Chairman, Senators, I am honored to be
here.
Embedded within the fabric of the American faith community
lies a clarion call and a prophetic supplication for national
unity accompanied by an alignment of our core values. Values
that include both security and compassion, the rule of law in
welcoming the stranger, mercy and justice.
The lack of comprehensive immigration reform has created a
reality where our borders are yet fully secured and the
immigrant families along with the entire Hispanic/American
community we find ourselves facing racial profiling,
discrimination and a hostile, ethnically polarized environment
not seen since the days prior to the successes of the Civil
Rights movement. For at the end of the day this is not a
political issue but rather one of moral and spiritual
imperative. An issue of justice firmly grounded on biblical
truth.
In scripture the number 12 emerges as the foundational
pillar of the Nation of Israel and as the initial followers of
Jesus Christ. My prayer is that this Congress remembers another
12; 12 million people living in the shadows, 12 million hiding
in fear, 12 million without rights, without a nation, without
legal covering, 12 million not knowing if today is the day that
they will be separated from their children, 12 million people
living in a land without the opportunity of ever experiencing
the fullness of life, embracing the hope of liberty, or
pursuing the promise of happiness. Yet, these 12 million people
carry one commodity. And that commodity is hope.
Hope that this President and members of this Congress that
ignited a movement and ushered in change will bring down the
walls of political expediency and incorporate with an
immigration reform the bridge to assimilation and a pathway to
the American dream. Hope that this Congress who stands
committed to saving the auto industries, our banks, homeowners
and health care will similarly apply that saving grace and
spirit to these 12 million souls. Hope and faith that this
Congress will pass comprehensive immigration reform.
We are 25,434 churches. We stand committed in framing the
moral imperative for comprehensive immigration reform by
reconciling both Leviticus 19, treating the stranger amongst us
as one of our own, and Romans 13, respecting the rule of law.
Let us be clear, Hispanic Christians stand committed to
that message, the message of the cross, one that is both
vertical and horizontal. And as we deal with immigration
reform, via the same prism, we humbly encourage Congress to
finally pass and sign into law legislation that will protect
our borders, put an end to all illegal immigration. Create a
market-driven guest worker program, and an avenue that
facilitates a way by which millions already here that lack the
legal status can end--can earn such a status in a manner that
reflects the Judeo-Christian value system this nation was
founded upon.
But here is the challenge. Can we reconcile Leviticus 19
and Romans 13? Can we repudiate xenophobia and nativism
rhetoric? Can we push back on the extremes both on the right
and the left and converge around the nexus of the center cross
where righteousness meets justice and border security meets
compassion, where common sense meets common ground. The fact of
the matter is that these immigrants are God-fearing, hard-
working, family-loving children of God who reflect the values
of our Founding Fathers and embrace the very tenets of the
American Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, and the
Bill of Rights.
Our desire, let me be clear, is for every immigrant in
America to become a productive citizen. To demonstrate
proficiency in the English language, to embrace the core values
of the American idea and realize the American dream.
Finally, we understand that every day that passes without
comprehensive immigration reform adds tarnish to the soul of
our Nation. The question arises, can this Nation be saved? Let
us save this Nation. Not by providing amnesty, but by providing
an earned pathway to citizenship. In the name of justice, in
the name of righteousness, in the name of the Divine, I
encourage this Congress to pass comprehensive immigration
reform. By doing so we will protect our borders. We will
protect all of our families, we will protect our values, and
then, and only then, can we truly protect the American dream.
Thank you.
Chairman Schumer. Thank you.
[The prepared statement of Rev. Samuel Rodriguez appears as
a submission for the record.]
STATEMENT OF JAMES TOLLE, SENIOR PASTOR, THE CHURCH ON THE WAY,
VAN NUYS, CALIFORNIA
Mr. Tolle. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Cornyn, thank you,
Senator--thank you Senator Sessions.
I am extremely heartened about this meeting and the topic
of immigration reform. It is one that is important, one of the
top three or four most important ones that we face as a
country. For the past five years I have been coming to
Washington to visit Congressional leaders on this very topic. I
have visited with the DNC, the RNC. Unfortunately the
legislation in previous years has never been passed. I hope
today, I pray today, marks a new beginning.
And with you, Senator Schumer, I say this is the right
time. I agree with you that this is the time.
The consequences of our previous failures are readily
visible to people like myself who try to treat people as one's
neighbor. I was instructed by Christ to love my neighbor as
myself.
Young Hispanic men and women whom I pastor, some are legal
and some are illegal. I pastor over 10,000 Hispanics, most of
them without documentation. I pastor equal amounts of English-
speaking people. These young men and women of undocumented
status have a paradox. They are caught in a legal paradox. In
California they can go to institutions of higher learning, but
once they graduate they cannot get into the legal workforce.
And so their education cannot be used. They have little place
to implement their skills, talents, and abilities.
Fifteen percent of the 12 million that we describe as
undocumented immigrants, or 1.8 millions, are children who came
here from their countries of origin with their parents. They
have no official status. The children in my congregation who
have grown up of documented workers or residents are pilots and
school teachers, they are police officers and some of them are
even working up here on the Hill in Congressional offices.
Others serve in the military. Some of them are customs agents,
many of them are athletes and entertainers and small business
owners. But unfortunately those same groupings of people have
friends in my own congregation who have also graduated from
college and cannot participate in our workforce.
Ten percent of undocumented students out of our high
schools go on to college whereas 50 percent of the children of
resident or citizen Hispanics go on to college. That's a big,
big disparitive.
So I would suggest that we find a solution so that we can
improve the lot of these young men and women who have come to
this country, through no choice of their own, but are caught in
a paradox.
Other consequences are obviously visible. There have been
raids close to my church building of recent date where Hispanic
citizens have been taken into custody and they have had to wait
while their documentation has been certified as being true.
Unfortunately, these legal residents and citizens have had to
wait while our cherished value of innocent until proven guilty
was applied to their situation.
We need immigration reform. Criminals in our community
continue to exploit and take advantage of the undocumented
immigrant.
In seeking comprehensive immigration reform I am motivated
by the phrase in the Declaration of Independence which states
that all men are created equal with certain unalienable rights.
``Unalienable rights'' are those human rights which transcend
law. We all have them. We have all been given them by God.
Everyone agrees that a Federal misdemeanor law has been
broken by an undocumented immigrant. However, the overwhelming
majority of the undocumented immigrant population in this
country are law-abiders. They are not criminals as many
suggest. Their guilt is that of answering the unalienable
rights, voice embedded deep within their consciousness in much
the same way as millions of Irish, Italian, or German, or
Polish, or English immigrants have done all throughout our rich
history.
In my opinion, these people are no different than the rest
of us. They want to obey law. The safety that this immigrant
seeks in our country, for they seek safety, is proof of their
true appreciation for law rather than the other way around. In
my opinion, the rule of law which we wish to be upheld by the
incoming immigrants has just as equally been violated by
business owners who have opened wide their arms and used them
for subpar jobs and substandard wages.
I offer that the rule of law should not have these glaring
inconsistencies and contradictions. As a faith leader I have
responded to the instruction of scripture. My pursuit of
comprehensive immigration reform comes from Leviticus which
states, ``the stranger who dwells with you shall be unto you as
one born among you and you shall love him as yourself.'' The
Prophet Malachi further admonishes, ``every believer to not
turn away the alien.'' Jesus' instructions were, ``to invite
the stranger to come in.'' Jesus ultimately adds his
confirmation to that of Isaiah's when he said, ``make sure that
you proclaim liberty to all.''
Thank you.
Chairman Schumer. I want to thank every one of you.
This was powerful testimony. I hope that my colleagues will
either read it, or better, see it as these are recorded, at
least internally here. And I thank all of you for caring so
much and for eloquent words that combine both our religious and
our secular culture and unity as Americans. So thank you.
I have a few questions that everyone can answer, and then a
few for different individuals.
First, to each of the panelists, because you each
represent, maybe not Mr. Gerson, he represents the people at
his institute, but to the other four, maybe he doesn't even
represent everyone at his institute. But to the other four, how
many of your colleagues would you say agree with your views on
immigration? Do you know of specific leaders who are not here
today who would like to be. And let's start with Pastor
Anderson.
Mr. Anderson. We actually had a vote today of the
leadership of the National Association of Evangelicals and on
this resolution there was no dissent.
Chairman Schumer. Wow. How many people voted?
Mr. Anderson. I think on the board there are about 75.
Chairman Schumer. Wow.
Mr. Anderson. But these represent the heads of
denominations. The endorsements here are the Assemblies of God
and the Church of the Nazarene and denominations that are the
main center of evangelicalism in America.
Chairman Schumer. Thank you, Pastor. Cardinal.
Cardinal McCarrick. My testimony was the testimony prepared
and supported by the United States Conference of Catholic
Bishops. So there are 300 active bishops and about 120 of us
retired, old geezers, but the position has been----
Chairman Schumer. Neither word is true in your case.
Cardinal McCarrick. You are very kind. The position has
been clear in the last few years and I would say there is a
unanimous acceptance of our enthusiastic support for what you
are trying to do, sir.
Chairman Schumer. Thank you. Reverend.
Rev. Rodriguez. My statement comes with the full
endorsement of the Hispanic National Association of
Evangelicals in our 25,000 plus churches.
Chairman Schumer. And Pastor Tolle.
Mr. Tolle. Senator, I don't sit here in any official
capacity today. But I have been in charge of all the Hispanic
churches in America for our denomination and they obviously
would endorse this fully.
I have also been a past director of Fourscore Missions with
over 50,000 churches. I would just venture a guess that 75
percent would stand fully in support of comprehensive
immigration reform.
Chairman Schumer. And let me ask each of you this, do you
think there are some religious leaders who do not speak out in
favor of immigration reform particularly to their congregants
for fear of reprisal from the congregation or fear of disfavor
or anything like that? Tell me what you think. Anybody.
Reverend.
Rev. Rodriguez. Absolutely. There's a disconnect between
the pulpit and the pews, particularly in non-ethnic
congregations. That's why today's resolution by the National
Association of Evangelicals is historic. This is no longer a
Latino thing or a Hispanic church issue, now it's the
collective evangelical community saying, we're in favor of
comprehensive immigration reform.
Chairman Schumer. Pastor Anderson.
Mr. Anderson. Well, yes, of course there are people that
disagree and I don't know what their numbers would be. And
there are pastors who would be reluctant to speak to this. Not
so much over the moral issue, actually, rather avoiding the
politicization of the issue and that's where the fear is, not a
fear of their constituency.
Chairman Schumer. Right. Okay. Let me ask you this, some
religious leaders--well, you answered most of the questions
that I have which is very, very good. Maybe for any of you, I
have this for Pastor Anderson, but it could go for anyone.
There are those who say that the scriptures written in a very
different historical time cannot inform U.S. immigration policy
in the 21st century. What do you think of that view? Cardinal.
Cardinal McCarrick. Well, I think the scriptures are
written for all times because they're written for human beings.
They are--they are based on the inherent dignity of the human
person. That doesn't change no matter what modernity comes into
life. And basically, I think all oppositions are based on the
fact that we are dealing with our brothers and sisters. We are
one human family and we have to take care of each other. That's
where we're all coming from, sir.
Chairman Schumer. Anyone else?
Mr. Tolle. I believe that the scriptures teach us how to
morally live and this is an issue of morality. And I think that
that's an opportunistic interpretation of scripture, sir.
Chairman Schumer. Right. Let me ask you this question,
because, again, we have the issue which I think a few of you
mentioned of amnesty. And so I hear people who come up to me,
as somebody who has been active in this area, and say, Senator
Schumer, I would not mind if we legalize the people who are
currently illegal or provide a path to citizenship. I just want
people to admit that they know they did something that was
wrong, and get right with the law by paying their debt to
society, working, paying taxes, and then, of course, get a
Green Card and become a citizen. I've heard this enough times.
It's had an effect on my thinking. Do you think that more
Americans would embrace the cause of immigration reform if they
knew that there would be some recognition of wrongdoing on the
part of the immigrant as part of the legalization process?
Mr. Tolle. I have found that most immigrants readily
recognize that violation. What I have found is in the
politicizing of this, is that people want to make one guilt
bigger than other guilts and make this into something that is
extremely larger in its payment to society; larger than the
infraction is. I do believe that we do need to maintain
security in our borders to stem the flow of massive amounts of
entry of people so that we can maintain a balanced economy.
There are many things that we need to address. However, I don't
think that we have a situation where there is anything, but
maybe political situation in nature.
Chairman Schumer. Thanks, Pastor. Now they've just called a
vote, so we have about 15 or 20 minutes to vote. I think we
could give every member a first round of five minutes and then
either come back or we could submit questions in writing. So I
know some of our guests have places to go. So I think that the
second way would be the best way to do it.
So let me call on Senator Cornyn. And for a rare time I
obeyed the 5-minute rule. So I will ask everybody else to do it
too.
Senator Cornyn. I think this is a fascinating discussion.
It's kind of--I was fascinated, I think, Pastor Anderson, by I
think you said that Christians are instructed to be obedient to
the law and in Romans 13, submit to authorities. I happen to be
a Christian. That's an article of my faith as well.
I guess the question I would have is, many of the
violations of our immigration laws have put immigrants in a
terrible situation. I recounted some of those earlier where
many immigrants find themselves victims of serial criminal
activities because of their initial error in entering the
country illegally. So certainly you are not saying that the
laws--that the immigration laws are unimportant when you say
it's not an absolute principle? Could you explain that?
Mr. Anderson. Yes, I would say that we have to be cautious
in saying that all laws should always be obeyed because we know
that there are countries where there are unjust laws. So, it's
not absolute in that regard. And there are thresholds here. So
Senator Schumer just admitted that he goes over the 5 minutes.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Anderson. And I would like to see him admit to the
guilt before we move on, you know, to the next testimony.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Anderson. But that's a low threshold infraction. And I
think that--I am not saying it is unimportant. It is extremely
important. And to tie your question to what Senator Schumer
said earlier, there are people who have knowingly broken the
law, but there are people who came across our borders who were
3 weeks old who did not knowingly break the law. So it's just
difficult to give a comprehensive answer to what seems like a
simple question. But it really isn't that simple.
Senator Cornyn. Well, I don't think it's that simple
either. And I've heard some suggest--we've heard the citation
of Leviticus, taking the stranger, and as if violating our
immigration laws was somehow not important. But all of you
would agree it's important for everyone, to the extent of their
ability, to comply with our laws; correct?
Mr. Anderson. I would say it is very important and we need
to provide means for people to rectify the infringement that
they have committed.
Senator Cornyn. Right.
Mr. Anderson. But they need to be reasonable in fair ways
of rectifying that.
Senator Cornyn. Fair enough. Many immigrants who illegally
enter the country also employ identity theft and document fraud
claiming the Social Security numbers of others so they can get
employment. And there are other sort of variations on that
theme of people who commit other crimes while they're here
illegally in the country. And those who have had their day in
court and are subject to final removal orders, but who then go
underground and never leave, never comply with that lawful
order of the court.
And then there are those who after they have left the
country and been deported by immigration authorities reenter on
a serial basis. And we know, unfortunately, that there are
illegal immigrants, like American citizens who are born here
who commit serious driving offenses, drunk driving offenses,
sexual offenses, and the like. And just so I understand, if I
understand what you are saying, please, I am not putting words
in your mouth, you're saying that the punishment ought to match
the crime and the crime that we were talking about initially at
least is illegal entry into the United States or entering
legally and then overstaying a visa. You are not suggesting
that any of these other sort of more serious crimes ought to be
treated on the same basis as a visa overstay or entering the
country without a visa?
Mr. Anderson. No, absolutely not. You know, I am saying
that there are different thresholds and that we need to be
reasonable and fair on what those thresholds are.
However, when it's egregious breaking of the law, when it's
the commission of a felony, then that needs to be--the law
needs to be heavy-handed in dealing with that type of
infraction.
Senator Cornyn. I appreciate your comment and I am going to
ask--Mr. Gerson, I'm going to ask you a question. Unfortunately
our time is so constrained here. I hope we can do more of this
over time and not just be limited to here.
My questions are really trying to shine a little light on
the fact that there is no sort of one situation. This is a
complex situation. But I would like to ask you about what you
said about the importance of a guest-worker program, Mr.
Gerson. I believe, Reverend Rodriguez, you mentioned as an
important component to you of a comprehensive bill.
Mr. Gerson. Related to the earlier discussion, I think laws
that forbid basic human aspirations get generally violated. I
think laws that violate basic economic principles get generally
violated. We do have a major problem with illegal immigration.
And there are implications to that for the rule of law and
security and a lot of other things. But it exists because there
is a market demand for a certain type of labor in the United
States.
Unless you have a system, a legal system, that approximates
and meets some element of that demand, you are going to have a
generally ignored system. And that, I think, is the importance
of a guest-worker system; to allow people to come who don't
want to come here permanently, but want to come and contribute
in ways that are important to the American economy and return.
I actually believe related to the earlier question that
it's also--combining that with a difficult but genuine and
realistic path to citizenship is really the only way to
determine who is in our country. It's the best way to
determine--you know, to control our borders is to make sure
that we have a regular way to meet a labor demand that's a
genuine demand that nobody can deny. And also to accommodate
the aspirations of people that want to become American
citizens.
Senator Cornyn. I know my time is expired, Mr. Chairman.
Senator Sessions. We don't want to miss this vote, that's
what they pay us to do here.
Well, Mr. Gerson, you know, we've got a growing
unemployment rate that may hit 10 percent. And if I had a
criticism of a man you and I both admire, President Bush, who I
think is a fabulous person, his phrase, well, basically he was
heard to say to the world, ``as long as there is a willing
worker and a willing employer, we're happy.'' That was never a
legitimate leadership statement in my view. I think it
undermined--it sent a message that made people believe if they
could succeed in entering our country illegally, 1 day we're
going to--we don't care really, and sooner or later we'll just
make you legal. And so the deal about comprehensive immigration
reform is no little matter. What we are talking about is
policy. What government policy----
Chairman Schumer. Senator, could we come back on that? I
know----
Senator Sessions. Well, I would just--thank you, Mr.
Chairman, we should go vote. And thank all of you for coming. I
do have something. I'm not sure I'll get back, but I have read
almost all of your statements and it is something that I am
going to try to internalize as we go forward with this debate
and make sure that we don't cross the line in unfairly dealing
with people who are here illegally, but who are children of God
and who deserve respect and compassion by all of us.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Schumer. Well, I think that's an appropriate way
to end. I want to thank our witnesses. This is going to have
real effect. And I know that many of you went out of your way
to be here. I wish we had more time, but we have the vote, and
I know people have to catch airplanes. So I thank you for being
here. And your words will mean a lot, not only to the three of
us, I think, but to all of our colleagues.
The hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 4:14 p.m., the Subcommittee was adjourned.]
[Questions and answers and submission for the record
follow.]
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