[Senate Hearing 110-344]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
S. Hrg. 110-344
NOMINATION HEARING OF THE
HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, TO BE
SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
=======================================================================
HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE,
NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
UNITED STATES SENATE
ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
JANUARY 24, 2008
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Agriculture, Nutrition, and Forestry
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.agriculture.senate.gov
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COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION, AND FORESTRY
TOM HARKIN, Iowa, Chairman
PATRICK J. LEAHY, Vermont SAXBY CHAMBLISS, Georgia
KENT CONRAD, North Dakota RICHARD G. LUGAR, Indiana
MAX BAUCUS, Montana THAD COCHRAN, Mississippi
BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, Arkansas MITCH McCONNELL, Kentucky
DEBBIE A. STABENOW, Michigan PAT ROBERTS, Kansas
E. BENJAMIN NELSON, Nebraska LINDSEY GRAHAM, South Carolina
KEN SALAZAR, Colorado NORM COLEMAN, Minnesota
SHERROD BROWN, Ohio MICHEAL D. CRAPO, Idaho
ROBERT P. CASEY, Jr., Pennsylvania JOHN THUNE, South Dakota
AMY KLOBUCHAR, Minnesota CHARLES E. GRASSLEY, Iowa
Mark Halverson, Majority Staff Director/Chief Counsel
Jessica L. Williams, Chief Clerk
Martha Scott Poindexter, Minority Staff Director
Vernie Hubert, Minority General Counsel
(ii)
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
Hearing(s):
Nomination Hearing of the Hon. Edward T. Schafer, to be
Secretary, U.S. Department of Agriculture...................... 1
----------
Thursday, January 24, 2008
STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY SENATORS
Harkin, Hon. Tom................................................. 1
Baucus, Hon. Max................................................. 4
Brown, Hon. Sherrod.............................................. 12
Casey, Hon. Robert P. Jr......................................... 7
Chambliss, Hon. Saxby............................................ 2
Cochran, Hon. Thad............................................... 8
Coleman, Hon. Norm............................................... 9
Conrad, Hon. Kent................................................ 14
Dorgan, Hon. Byron L............................................. 15
Klobuchar, Hon. Amy.............................................. 10
Lincoln, Hon. Blanche L.......................................... 13
Lugar, Hon. Richard G............................................ 5
Nelson, Hon. E. Benjamin......................................... 5
Pomeroy, Hon. Earl............................................... 16
Roberts, Hon. Pat................................................ 6
Salazar, Hon. Ken................................................ 8
Thune, Hon. John................................................. 11
Panel I
Schafer, Hon. Edward T........................................... 18
----------
APPENDIX
Prepared Statements:
Cochran, Hon. Thad........................................... 42
Crapo, Hon. Mike............................................. 45
Salazar, Hon. Ken............................................ 46
Schafer, Hon. Edward T....................................... 51
Document(s) Submitted for the Record:
Committee questionnaire and Office of Government Ethics
Executive Branch Personnel Public Financial Disclosure
Report filed by Hon. Edward T. Schafer..................... 56
Associated Milk Producers Inc., written letter of support for
Hon. Edward T. Schafer......................................... 80
National Association of Manufacturers, written letter of support
for Hon. Edward T. Schafer..................................... 81
State of North Dakota Office of the Governor, written letter of
support for Hon. Edward T. Schafer............................. 82
Question and Answer:
Harkin, Hon. Tom:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 84
Baucus, Hon. Max:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 85
Brown, Hon. Sherrod:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 86
Casey, Hon. Robert P. Jr.:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 88
Crapo, Hon. Mike:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 91
Grassley, Hon. Charles:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 92
Leahy, Hon. Patrick J.:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 94
Nelson, Hon. E. Benjamin:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 97
Roberts, Hon. Pat:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 99
Salazar, Hon. Ken:
Written questions for Hon. Edward T. Shafer.................. 101
Schafer, Hon. Edward T.:
Written response to questions from Hon. Tom Harkin........... 106
Written response to questions from Hon. Max Baucus........... 107
Written response to questions from Hon. Sherrod Brown........ 108
Written response to questions from Hon. Robert P. Casey Jr... 109
Written response to questions from Hon. Mike Crapo........... 113
Written response to questions from Hon. Charles Grassley..... 114
Written response to questions from Hon. Patrick J. Leahy..... 117
Written response to questions from Hon. E. Benjamin Nelson... 122
Written response to questions from Hon. Pat Roberts.......... 125
Written response to questions from Hon. Ken Salazar.......... 127
NOMINATION HEARING OF THE
HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, TO BE
SECRETARY, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
----------
Thursday, January 24, 2008
U.S. Senate,
Committee on Agriculture,
Nutrition, and Forestry,
Washington, DC.
The committee met, pursuant to notice, at 3:36 p.m., in
room 328-A, Russell Senate Office Building, Hon. Tom Harkin,
Chairman of the committee, presiding.
Present or submitting a statement: Senators Harkin, Conrad,
Baucus, Lincoln, Brown, Nelson, Salazar, Casey, Klobuchar,
Chambliss, Lugar, Roberts, Cochran, Coleman, and Thune.
STATEMENT OF HON. TOM HARKIN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM IOWA,
CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE, NUTRITION AND FORESTRY
Chairman Harkin. Good afternoon. The Senate Committee on
Agriculture, Nutrition and Forestry will come to order.
This afternoon, we meet for a hearing on the nomination of
Edward T. Schafer, former Governor of North Dakota, for
Secretary of Agriculture. I welcome to the Committee Governor
Schafer. I also want to recognize and welcome your wife, Nancy,
and your daughter, Kari, as well as a good number of North
Dakotans who are here with us this afternoon. Of course, you
are flanked by our distinguished colleagues, Senator Conrad,
Senator Dorgan, and Congressman Pomeroy.
It is a fact too seldom fully appreciated, I think, that
the responsibilities of the Secretary of Agriculture touch the
lives of all Americans and millions of others around the world
on a daily basis. Each and every one of us depends on our food
and agricultural system and have a vital interest in the wide
range of activities at the Department of Agriculture.
In my State of Iowa, strong, forward-looking leadership at
the Department of Agriculture is critically important.
Agriculture is the cornerstone of our economy. We treasure our
way of life in our small towns and rural communities. We
understand the true value of soil and water and other natural
resources. We are committed to conserving them and improving
them and saving them for future generations. We are optimistic
about our growing role in producing energy and bio-based
products for the future.
So it is encouraging, Governor Schafer, that you also come
from a State with similar deep connection and appreciation for
agriculture and rural communities. I commend you for the pride
you take and the inspiration you draw from your family's
heritage in agriculture and rural communities. Your experience
as Governor of North Dakota should serve you well as Secretary
of Agriculture.
Among your key responsibilities is faithfully carrying out
the laws that Congress writes and the President signs.
Currently, we face a big challenge in completing a new farm
bill for you to implement. The Senate and House of
Representatives have each passed their versions of the farm
bill. Both bills have significant improvements and reforms to
benefit agriculture, rural communities, and our nation as a
whole.
In our Senate bill, we continue and improve a solid farm
income protection system. We make critical new investments to
preserve our resources, promote rural energy initiatives,
alleviate hunger and malnutrition, and boost the economy and
quality of life in rural communities. Unfortunately, we do not
yet have the support of the President for funding the critical
forward-looking investments crafted by the Agriculture
Committees and approved by both the House and the Senate. We
have a good deal of hard work and negotiation with the White
House ahead of us on the new farm bill. Yet with my colleagues
and with my Ranking Member, Senator Chambliss, with our two
counterparts on the House side, we have begun to work together.
I believe that we will reach agreements and we will have a bill
for the President in short order.
For Governor Schafer, we look forward to working with you.
We are counting on your help in working out differences in
order to enact a new, sound farm bill for our nation.
Again, we welcome you to the Committee. We look forward to
your testimony.
I will now turn to our Ranking Member, Senator Chambliss.
STATEMENT OF HON. SAXBY CHAMBLISS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF GEORGIA
Senator Chambliss. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
Governor Schafer, welcome to the Agriculture Committee. I am
very pleased to see that you are surrounded by three folks who
know and understand agriculture. Senator Dorgan and Senator
Conrad, obviously I have had the pleasure of serving with over
here, and my good friend, Earl Pomeroy, I had the pleasure of
serving with for 8 years in the House and working very closely
with all three of these gentlemen for what we know to be the
best agricultural products produced in the world today. I am
pleased that they are here to show their support to you.
First of all, I want to show you something. This is a bag
of Georgia peanuts, Governor, and----
[Laughter.]
Senator Chambliss [continuing]. You all don't grow many of
these in North Dakota. I hope you don't start growing any,
because we certainly can't grow wheat, soybeans, and corn the
way you do in North Dakota, but we grow a darn good peanut and
I want to make sure you get plenty of them at your office to
start you off right.
[Laughter.]
Senator Chambliss. And we will even throw in some Diet
Cokes.
[Laughter.]
Senator Chambliss. Mr. Chairman, I do thank you for holding
this important hearing to consider the nomination of Governor
Edward Schafer for the position of Secretary of the United
States Department of Agriculture. It is a credit to you and
your staff in the middle of farm bill negotiations that you
have taken the time to attend to this important business, and I
look forward to reporting the nomination favorably out of
committee and quickly approving the nomination on the Senate
floor. A swift confirmation will ensure that the Department of
Agriculture has the necessary leadership to fulfill its mission
on behalf of the American people.
Governor Schafer, I congratulate you on the nomination by
the President. I would also like to welcome your wife, Nancy,
and your daughter, Kari, to the hearing today. I understand and
regret that your children Tom, Ellie, and Eric couldn't be
here, but certainly they are all justly proud of you and I
commend them for their great support of you. I hope your visit
today will be a short yet productive one, and I am certain it
will. I know it is a proud day for you and your family and for
the entire State of North Dakota.
The Senate is pleased that the President has extended his
confidence in you and provided us with an opportunity to fill
this critical position in timely fashion. Your predecessor,
Secretary Johanns, established a high standard for the position
of Secretary, and certainly Chuck Conner has served admirably
as Acting Secretary in his absence.
As every member of the Senate Committee on Agriculture well
knows, the position of Secretary is critically important not
only to America's agricultural producers, but to every U.S.
citizen that consumes products that our farmers produce.
Arguably, no member of the President's cabinet has a greater or
broader responsibility than the Secretary of Agriculture. From
overseeing the major commodity and conservation programs to
administering the food and nutrition programs, the Secretary of
Agriculture touches almost every sector of our society today.
Our most basic strength as a nation resides in our ability
to produce a safe and affordable food supply. We are blessed
that we can share this bounty not only with our citizens, but
with other nations, as well. American agriculture is at a
critical intersection and you are coming in at a very critical
time, with the promise of a new farm bill in one direction and
the uncertainty of government inaction on the other. Unless
Congress and the administration can work collaboratively to
pass a farm bill, our farmers and ranchers, despite the high
prices they currently enjoy, will be forced to go to their
lenders without the strong backing of the Federal Government.
In today's uncertain economic climate, it would be
irresponsible to abdicate our responsibilities to rural America
in the pursuit of legislative options that do not enjoy broad
Congressional support.
As you know, the U.S. Senate overwhelmingly passed the
Senate version of the farm bill in a strong bipartisan way
under the leadership of Senator Harkin. Such broad support of
farm policy is unprecedented in the Senate's long history. It
is our hope to pass a farm bill and have it signed into law in
the short term so that we can then turn toward the important
business with the Department of Agriculture of implementing
that farm bill.
The fact that the President nominated you speaks to your
high level of qualification to assist us in the final stages of
the farm bill process and furthermore represent our farmers and
ranchers around the world in critical trade negotiations.
So Governor, I will submit the rest of my statement for the
record, but I just want you to know that we really do look
forward to moving this nomination, to working very closely with
you as we complete the conference process on the farm bill, and
look forward to working with you on the implementation of that
farm bill.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Chambliss.
Normally, the Chair would recognize the Senators in the
order that they come, but I think today, since this is a
nomination hearing, I would go back and forth, one side to the
other, and I know Senator Baucus has a scheduling problem
anyway. Any comments, if you keep them relatively short, I am
sure would be appreciated by our nominee and all, so I would
recognize Senator Baucus.
STATEMENT OF HON. MAX BAUCUS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
MONTANA
Senator Baucus. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank the
indulgence of my colleagues and I will be quite brief.
Governor, I very much welcome you to Washington to your new
job and I especially compliment you on the choice of Nancy----
[Laughter.]
Senator Baucus [continuing]. A Turner, Montana, lady, next
to North Dakota--not too far from North Dakota, a little closer
to Canada, but a little closer to North Dakota, and so you are
flanked not just by two great Senators and a great House
member, but also by your wife, who very much understands
agriculture and I know will be a very strong advocate for
agriculture in your household, so I thank you very, very much.
You in your prepared statement said that Abraham Lincoln
called the Department of Agriculture ``The People's
Department.'' I just might say that sometimes we wonder here if
the Department really is still the People's Department based
upon what your predecessor sometimes said. It seems to many of
us that the Department has been a little more concerned with
Washington Post and Wall Street Journal editorials than it is
with real folks, the farmers and ranchers in our States. So if
the Department really is the People's Department, and I think
that is an apt quote, we clearly want it to remain the People's
Department, and that is farmers and ranchers, not East Coast
editorial writers.
I am also a little concerned, frankly, that when the
Secretary, your predecessor said that there was no need for an
agriculture disaster assistance title that is in this farm
bill, there clearly is because you never know when disaster is
going to strike. If the title is already in place in there, I
think it just helps our farmers and ranchers have a sense that
they can continue to farm and that their livelihood, that they
can stick with it.
I am also a little concerned when your predecessor wanted
to close a lot of Farm Service Agency offices. The number of
offices to be closed--announced to be closed in Montana--is
about 1.2 percent of the State FSA budget, but it would close
about 14 percent of our State's offices. As you know, in the
farm bill we have said, no, no, we are not going to close most
of these FSA offices. We put a little limit on it so that the
closures are more related to efficiency and not as widespread
as is in the bill.
Further, we are a little concerned when the President says
he is not going to sign a farm bill that is one penny over
baseline, yet his own budget baseline is $8 billion over. It
just seems to us that--and we urge you when you are confirmed
to go back and review that position so that when you are
standing up for farmers and ranchers, that maybe you modify
that statement along the lines that make more sense for
agriculture.
Finally, I just wanted to thank you very much and remind
you, and I know Nancy is going to remind you, that agriculture
is our most important industry in Montana. I am sure she has
deep roots still in Turner. Welcome, and I just tell you to
fight for agriculture and work very closely with this
Committee. The farm bill, as you know, passed by 80 votes--79
votes. We put all politics aside totally. This is a totally
nonpartisan bill. We want to do what is right for agriculture,
and I very much know that you will approach your job in very
much the same fair mind.
So thank you very much and I wish you good luck.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lugar?
STATEMENT OF HON. RICHARD G. LUGAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF INDIANA
Senator Lugar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and
welcome, Governor Schafer. Congratulations on your nomination.
I would just encourage you to work with the President, to work
with the cabinet. We are in difficult times economically in our
country and job creation in agriculture is as important as job
creation everywhere else. Stability of rural banks and our
countryside is going to require teamwork with the Secretary of
the Treasury, Commerce, as well a the administration. So you
come in at a time of crisis, but it is very important that you
be confirmed quickly so that we have a seat at the table and we
look forward to working with you.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much.
Senator Nelson?
STATEMENT OF HON. E. BENJAMIN NELSON, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF NEBRASKA
Senator Nelson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, too, want to
express my congratulations and appreciation for your
willingness to take on a very difficult responsibility at a
difficult time. You are stepping into the middle of a process
because of the departure of your predecessor and I am hopeful
that as you step into this, as we have discussed, that you will
find that you can be a partner with the Chairman and the
Ranking Member of this Committee as well as with the House
committees and work together with us as committees to bring
together a farm bill or a Food and Energy Security Act for 2007
so that we can move forward in so many different areas.
I know that there is a lot of frustration with the closure
of the ten FSA offices in Nebraska. We didn't feel that that
was done in an appropriate fashion any more than we think it
was in other States. It was not well thought through. I hope
that because of the inclusion of that in the farm bill, that
you will look at that very carefully when you get into the
office to work with us, given that legislation.
I have expressed to you my concern about how we can work
together to put more pressure on certain Asian countries with
respect to the exporting of our beef. We run into challenges,
continuing challenges in Japan to get to the level of exports
that we were before the BSE scare, and the same thing is true
in the Republic of Korea. I have worked very closely with their
Ambassadors. I felt that I did not have adequate support from
the USDA in that effort. I would have to describe the effort
that I saw as anemic, at best. I think if you can help us in a
robust fashion, we can make the difference not only with
respect to beef, but with other areas of trade that involve
agricultural products.
There have been improper payments. I think you have
probably followed that. A person doesn't have to know much
about Lexis or Nexis to find out if somebody is alive or dead,
certainly with respect to the payments. Now, we have put that
language into the bill even though it was not necessary to be
in the bill, but it was almost like saying, and this time we
mean it. Get it right. So you are going to have us looking over
your shoulder from time to time saying, now are you getting it
right?
But I think you can see that there is a great deal of
comity--sometimes comedy as well--but comity within this
Committee, different ideas about how to go about things, but a
generally positive atmosphere with which to work.
So what I would like to say is you don't have to be caught
in a vise. You can escape the vise by becoming a partner with
this Committee and I hope you that you will find a friendly
partnership with us. We intend for that to be the case, and
from our years together as Governors and neighbors, you know
exactly how to do that and I am looking forward to working with
you. My congratulations again to Nancy and to your daughter and
to the North Dakotans for this nomination. I hope we can get it
done quickly.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Nelson.
Senator Roberts?
STATEMENT OF HON. PAT ROBERTS, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
KANSAS
Senator Roberts. Yes, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for
scheduling this hearing so quickly upon our return, and
hopefully Congress as a whole will move as expeditiously this
year, not only on the stimulus package but the farm bill, as
well, and the whole series of issues where we have to move.
I am really pleased to be here today on behalf and to lend
my support for our nominee. I know that we have met on many
occasions and discussed agriculture program policy, and so I
simply associate myself with the very good remarks of my
colleagues.
Being from North Dakota, I think we have to underscore that
he has a solid understanding of the importance of agriculture,
and in particular the importance of production agriculture. I
am always amazed lately that, I don't know, for some reason,
about the lack of understanding over the value and the
contribution of production agriculture to our society today.
This is something that has to be worked on over time.
We really need somebody, as has been referred to, with a
healthy dose of common sense to be the lead spokesman for U.S.
agriculture, standing up to attacks on our farm programs from
those who either don't appreciate it or don't understand that
America's farmers and ranchers still produce the safest and
most abundant and affordable food supply in the world. They
produce not only for our country, but for a very troubled and
hungry world.
You are riding with the Conrad, Dorgan, and Pomeroy posse,
and they know that and they have been outstanding spokesmen and
champions for production agriculture. They have been singing
that anthem ever since the Sons of the Pioneers sang for Roy
and Dale.
[Laughter.]
Senator Roberts. That may date Earl a little bit, but I
don't know.
And so I hope you are up for it, Governor. I have a
question over direct payments, but I will yield at this time on
behalf of other members and we will wait for the questions.
Welcome aboard.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Roberts.
Senator Casey?
STATEMENT OF HON. ROBERT P. CASEY JR., A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF PENNSYLVANIA
Senator Casey. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much. Governor,
thank you for your willingness to put yourself forth as a
nominee for this office. We appreciate that and we appreciate
your service as Governor of your State. It is a commitment that
I know that your family makes, as well. We are grateful for
that. And as Senator Roberts and others have said, you have got
quite a team around you, two distinguished Senators and a
member of the House with you. It is quite a line-up. You have
got a good team around you.
I want to thank you, also, for taking the time to sit in my
office back in early November to talk about some of the
challenges that Pennsylvania faces. It is a major, really, the
No. 1 industry in our State. We talked at that time about
dairy, and people on this Committee know that I have talked a
lot about this, but the cost of production for dairy farmers is
a huge concern and you know as well as I do, these people,
these families lead lives of struggle, very difficult lives
when the cost of everything in their life that is relevant to
their cost of production is going through the roof, feed and
fuel and other costs, as well. I will have a number of
questions probably for the record to submit to you to answer.
I guess one thing that is looming over this hearing today,
and I think any of our discussions about the country, about our
economy, even in the context of short-term economic challenges,
is the farm bill. We are very concerned about it, and I am not
just concerned, we are disturbed by the President's veto
threat. I know you will be asked about that today and we would
ask you to talk about that in terms of responding to your sense
of that, why you think he is headed in that direction. If he
is, I hope he changes course.
But we are very concerned about that and very concerned
about, after all the work that got done in this Committee by
our Chairman and Ranking Member and everyone at this table, and
some did a lot more than others. So many people worked very
hard. The staff worked month after month at times when it
seemed the thing was doomed and it would come back to life and
it got done in a bipartisan way. So we are very concerned about
the unraveling of that bipartisan consensus by an action that
the President would take.
So we would ask you to speak to that, but we are just
grateful that you would put yourself forward as a nominee and
we look forward to hearing your responses to questions. Thank
you very much.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Casey.
Senator Cochran?
STATEMENT OF HON. THAD COCHRAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF MISSISSIPPI
Senator Cochran. Mr. Chairman, thank you. We appreciate
your holding this nomination hearing in such a timely manner.
It is important, as we all realize, for the position of
Secretary of the Department of Agriculture to be filled as we
negotiate a conference agreement with the House on the farm
bill. I hope the Committee and the Senate will take prompt
action to approve this well-qualified nominee as the new
Secretary.
Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent that the balance of
my remarks be printed in the record
[The prepared statement of Hon. Thad Cochran can be found
on page 42 in the appendix.]
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Cochran.
Senator Salazar?
STATEMENT OF HON. KEN SALAZAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
COLORADO
Senator Salazar. Thank you very much, Chairman Harkin. Let
me first congratulate Governor Schafer and let you know that
you are surrounded by three people who I consider to be
champions for rural America and champions for agriculture. /
Senator Dorgan, Senator Conrad, and Congressman Pomeroy bring
that voice to what I sometimes call the forgotten America in a
way that is unequal here to the U.S. Senate and to the U.S.
House of Representatives. So you have surrounded yourself with
some supporters.
Therefore, I think that your nomination here is not in
question, but you do have, I know, some challenges ahead, I
think especially when you look at the fact that you will have a
very short time, frankly, to be in the position of Secretary of
Agriculture, and so I want to say just two or three things and
I will submit my formal statement for the record.
The first is, like with all of us, your Department affects
my State in a very significant way. We have 31 million acres of
farmland and ranchland. In addition, we have 31,000 farmers and
ranchers. In addition to that, there are about 14 million acres
which are under the jurisdiction of USDA which are either
Forest Service, U.S. National Forests, or grasslands. So you
affect a huge percentage of the lands in my State and there
will be a host of issues that we want to work with you on.
Two priorities for me, just off the box, I join the rest of
this Committee in saying we need to get that farm bill done and
we need to get it done very soon and we need the administration
to be helpful to us as we get that across the finish line. I
think that coming in when you have 1 year left, it would be a
great thing if what you can do is to help us implement the
bill. You know, it is one thing to pass a bill. It is another
thing to make sure that it gets implemented in the right way,
and hopefully you can join the rest of us in being Ambassadors
for what I consider to be one of the best farm bills that I
think this country has ever seen.
Finally, in my State, with respect to Forest Service lands,
we are getting eaten up by a beetle called the bark beetle,
which has attacked about 1.5 million acres of lodgepole pine.
It is having a dramatic effect throughout the Western slope. It
has spread out into Wyoming and into Utah and even up into
Idaho, and so it is an issue that I have worked on for several
years and I will look forward to working with you on that, as
well.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Ken Salazar can be found on
page 46 in the appendix.]
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Salazar.
Senator Coleman?
STATEMENT OF HON. NORM COLEMAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF MINNESOTA
Senator Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman,
thank you for holding this hearing and your efforts to move
this nomination along. I am thrilled that our neighbor, my
neighbor and friend has been nominated by the President to be
Secretary of Agriculture. I wholeheartedly support this
nomination and I look forward to us moving it quickly. We need
you now.
It is great to have somebody from our neighborhood who
understands the concerns and needs of certainly our folks in
the Red River Valley, some of the special needs they have when
natural disaster strikes, but just across the border. As former
Mayor of St. Paul, I think history shows that it was actually
North Dakotans who may have founded my city, so there is a
long-term tie there.
It has been mentioned about the bipartisan nature of this
Committee. With all the bickering that goes on in Washington,
with all this kind of negative partisan divide, this Committee
has been a haven, a safe haven from that. Senator Conrad's
leadership on the farm bill, working with those of us on the
other side of the aisle, and that was never an issue was what
is right for farmers, what is right for American agriculture.
That relationship goes across the board with Senator Dorgan and
Congressman Pomeroy. So it is a special place and I think you
bring special qualities to that.
I have often found that a key to negotiation is two things,
humility and a capacity to listen. I have a friend of mine,
Ward Braham, who told me a story one time that he was on a
flight coming back to Washington. He sat down next to this guy.
They had this tremendous conversation the whole flight and they
kind of became good buddies, and at the end of the flight, he
got up and said, well, what do you do, and the response was,
``I am Ed Schafer. I am the Governor of North Dakota.'' He
never bothered--didn't start his conversation with his
position. He sat there and listened with a sense of humility
and created a relationship.
We are going to be in the midst of some negotiations of a
farm bill and I think it requires a good listener. It requires
a sense of humility. The administration doesn't always get it
right, and perhaps we don't, either. But I think you bring
those qualities, and then perhaps most important, where I
started, as someone who cares deeply about American
agriculture, and certainly from this Senator's perspective has
a unique understanding of the needs that we have.
So I think we have found an individual, Mr. Chairman, who
has all these qualifications and I hope we move this nomination
along very quickly. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Coleman.
Senator Klobuchar?
STATEMENT OF HON. AMY KLOBUCHAR, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF MINNESOTA
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, Chairman, for holding this
hearing. Congratulations, Governor. I noticed that the Chairman
has made sure that all of your neighbors are here at the end of
the table, with Minnesota and South Dakota. It may have had
something to do with seniority, but we are here for you.
[Laughter.]
Senator Klobuchar. I actually was thinking about our common
border in North Dakota and seeing all these fine Senators and
Congressman Pomeroy up here, a story that I think I told
Senator Conrad, and that was when I first started running for
the U.S. Senate. I called Collin Peterson. I didn't know him
very well and I said, if I drive 4 hours to Detroit Lakes, will
you meet with me for 15 minutes? He said, OK. I said, we will
talk agriculture policy. I said, OK. I drive there. I met with
him for about an hour and I had this chart that I had put
together of all the direct payments and countercyclical
payments and I was trying to figure out how it all worked and
he finally said, ``You know what? The farmers just want a fair
deal. No one understands this stuff except ten people in the
country and nine of them live in North Dakota.''
[Laughter.]
Senator Klobuchar. So I decided that four of them are right
here up at this table.
[Laughter.]
Senator Klobuchar. As you know, Governor, Minnesota is the
sixth-largest agricultural producing State in the Nation and
the fourth-largest represented on this Committee. We care a lot
about this farm bill. So my message to you is that we have to
get this farm bill done.
I have heard it not just from farmers in our State. I went
to 47 counties over the recess, from Southern Minnesota way up
to--I am going to attend Senator Conrad's marketplace event up
in Grand Forks, and I heard it again and again. But I also
heard it from people who were in non-agriculture jobs, in
smaller towns who are seeing this revolution that the 2002 farm
bill produced. And I also heard it from hunters at the National
Pheasants Forever event, who really want to get this done.
And I would add one thing. I know we talked and you pledged
to continue to work with us on some of the subsidy reforms,
especially the amendment that I had for the AGI reform, as we
go forward and I hope that will be part of the conference
discussions and discussions with the White House. I think the
money should be going to family farmers, so thank you very
much.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Klobuchar.
Senator Thune?
STATEMENT OF HON. JOHN THUNE, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
SOUTH DAKOTA
Senator Thune. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Governor,
welcome to the Senate----
Mr. Schafer. Thank you.
Senator Thune. And to the Senate Agriculture Committee,
where you find out that even though you are the star of this
hearing, you have to listen to all of us talk before you get
your chance.
[Laughter.]
Senator Thune. And to be accompanied with fully one-half of
the Dakota Caucus in the Congress, and Earl and I were--I wish
I could say 2 percent of the House when we were the Dakota
Caucus over there, but we could have had our meetings in a very
small room.
I do think that when you represent our area of the country,
you have a great appreciation for the importance of
agriculture. I think in South Dakota today, the wind chills
were 30 below and the actual temperature was about seven below
and I suspect it is even colder than that in North Dakota, but
people in our----
Senator Conrad. No, no, it is not.
[Laughter.]
Senator Thune. Once again, Conrad is trying to manipulate
the numbers, but----
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. South Dakota payments just went down.
[Laughter.]
Senator Thune. But in any event, I think you have to be a
tough breed to live in the Upper Midwest and this farm bill is
really important. It is important that we get it done, and I
think you know that. I know the administration has not been
happy with some of the provisions in either the House or the
Senate bill or how it is paid for, for that matter. But I know
one thing is certain and that is that we need to get a bill
through. Our farmers and ranchers need it, not just in the
Dakotas but all across this country and I think we have struck
a very good balance in a strong bipartisan bill here that
addresses those needs.
One of the issues, of course, that I visited with you with
when you were in my office was the importance of renewable
energy in that whole equation now and how that has dramatically
impacted prosperity in agriculture in places like the Dakotas
and it importance. Senator Nelson and I worked closely on some
provisions in the energy title of the farm bill that I think
will help move forward, advance biofuel, cellulosic ethanol,
and I think that there are some great opportunities there, and
so that is why moving this bill is important not just from the
food and fiber standpoint, but also from the fuel standpoint. I
know that we are going to count heavily on your negotiating
abilities because they will be tested based on some of the
differences that exist between us and the White House on the
bill.
The other thing I will mention just briefly, because it is
an important part of this farm bill, as well, is the
conservation title and the sustainability of agriculture is--
that title is so critical to sustainability of agriculture. I
believe that farmers and ranchers are great stewards of the
land. I also think that they are being asked to do more and
more to maximize their production and we have got to give them
the tools that they need so that they can manage and care for
those lands. It is really important in our State from a
wildlife habitat standpoint, as well. So many of the provisions
in this farm bill are very good for conservation and I hope we
can keep those in the final bill.
I would just conclude by saying again that we welcome your
willingness to take on this position and look forward to moving
very quickly to get you confirmed. Mr. Chairman, we hope that
that will happen soon and we will be able to move the
nomination to the floor of the Senate and get you up and going
on the job, and hopefully you can work with us to get a farm
bill passed. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Thune.
Senator Brown?
STATEMENT OF HON. SHERROD BROWN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE
OF OHIO
Senator Brown. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Governor, nice to
see you again. Thank you for joining us. My only real advice
would be to listen to one of the best delegations here, your
two Senators and your Congressman, who have been great
advocates for North Dakota and for family farmers around our
country.
Just a couple of things briefly. I held a series of
roundtables with farmers in all parts of my State last year and
one of the ideas that came out of that is something that
Senator Roberts and many of us worked on and the Chairman did,
on the whole issue of average crop revenue, to build the kind
of revenue protection that we need, as you and I spoke about.
That is part of the farm bill. We reached a compromise that I
think will work and I am hopeful that we can continue to work
together on that as the farm bill is signed into law.
Second, I would add the importance of the nutrition title.
Senator Lugar and Senator Lincoln and I have worked on both
food bank and food stamp provisions. We are trying to get just
some only $40 million into the stimulus package or something
soon to help sort of bridge the gap, with food banks under more
duress, they will tell you around the country, than at any time
in the last 20 years, to help them in the time between now and
the time the farm bill is signed into law. So your support--I
talked to the Secretary of the Treasury about that--your
support there would be helpful.
I welcome you and look forward to working with you in the
year ahead. Thanks.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator Brown.
Senator Lincoln?
STATEMENT OF HON. BLANCHE L. LINCOLN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF ARKANSAS
Senator Lincoln. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and a special
thanks to you. Glad to be back. I enjoyed our visit yesterday,
Governor. Thank you so much for coming by. I am pleased to
welcome you to the Committee today and congratulate you on your
nomination and look forward to working with you and certainly
gaining a better understanding of your approaches and how you
intend to tackle this job. Coming from a seventh-generation
Arkansas farm family, it is near and dear to my heart, as you
saw yesterday, and I look forward to seeing how you will
approach so many of the issues that we face in this country.
I certainly want to thank our colleagues there, Senators
Conrad and Dorgan and Congressman Pomeroy, who I came into the
House with, for their introductory statements. Senator Conrad,
in particular, has been a great colleague to work with in
crafting this year's farm bill. He has made a great effort to
craft a bill, I think, that really meets the diversity of our
country, our farmers, and we appreciate that and look forward
to continuing that work in what comes through the conference.
Governor Schafer, just one quick thing. I tried to make
this point yesterday and you were enormously patient and
listened to what I had to say. You are going to be entering
this position at a critical time. We work a lot on the
Agricultural Committee throughout the 5 years or 6 years of a
farm bill, but critically bringing a farm bill to the floor and
getting a bill to the President is enormously important. It is
a time when we come together to try to create a final farm
bill, and as the country approaches what I think is somewhat of
a worrisome milestone in our history, because projections are
showing us that in the next couple of years, more than likely,
we are going to see for the first time in the history of our
country a trade deficit in agriculture. We are seeing ourselves
in the circumstances of an unbelievably competitive marketplace
globally and our hope is that we can certainly provide the kind
of support that growers need.
I believe one of the most important goals that we have in
striving to bring together a farm bill that is worthy of the
people that we serve here in this country is ensuring a safe
and domestic supply of food, and to achieve that goal, we
really worked to provide our domestic growers with a basic
safety net that all of those growers can work with so that they
are able to compete in an already very heavily distorted world
market, and there are lots of charts that show us that.
We are excited about what we can do and hope that you will
take every effort to engage yourself in this. I think maybe at
some point, you can fill in for us what that engagement is
going to be in terms of the farm bill, so we look forward to
it. Thank you.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Now, I get to recognize a senior member of
this Committee, also Chairman of the Budget Committee, and I
might say, Governor, one of the real architects of the farm
bill that we have before us now, and of course past farm bills,
but especially this one. I can say without any fear of
contradiction that without his help, we wouldn't have had the
kind of budget that we needed and the money that we needed and
working on helping us get all the numbers lined up and getting
everything put together so that we had that great 79 to 14 vote
on the Senate floor. Of course, I refer to our great friend and
our great colleague, Senator Kent Conrad.
STATEMENT OF HON. KENT CONRAD, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE STATE OF
NORTH DAKOTA
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and special thanks
to you for your gracious willingness to move this hearing up.
We would very much like to have the nominee, Governor Schafer,
be able to enter the chamber for the President's State of the
Union with the rest of the cabinet. I deeply appreciate, Mr.
Chairman, what you have done to make that a possibility.
I also want to thank our Ranking Member, Senator Chambliss,
for his accommodations and his support of the nomination. We
certainly appreciate that. It is really my privilege to present
our Governor, our former Governor of North Dakota, Ed Schafer,
the first North Dakotan ever nominated for the position of
Secretary of Agriculture. That is a great honor for our State
and the people of North Dakota are enthusiastic and excited at
the prospect.
I should, as part of full disclosure, indicate that the
Governor and I for many years were brothers-in-law, so I
consider him family, and I would ask my colleagues not to hold
that against him.
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. The circumstance that we face here is a
very important one because all of you know, who have labored so
hard to produce a farm bill that came out of this Committee
without a single dissenting vote--I don't remember that ever
happening before, and I have been through four farm bills
here--and then to go to the floor and get a vote of 79 to 14
with four Senators who were absent announced in favor of the
bill, that would have given us 83 votes. You have to go back a
very long time in the history of this country to find a
bipartisan support of that magnitude for any farm bill. I think
it is a testimony to the work of this Committee and really the
extraordinary work of every member of this Committee.
If there was ever a team effort, it was this farm bill, and
the people in this room, I would say to you, Governor, each and
every one of them played a key role in the deliberations of
this bill. So often, you have a few people that are really
active. Not on this Committee. Every single member really
contributed to this bill.
This is a critical time, because we have passed the House,
we have passed the Senate, we are in Conference Committee. We
face the Presidential veto threat. It is very much my hope that
Governor Schafer will help bridge the divide, because this is
critically important legislation for the country.
Our economy is in trouble. We are in the midst of writing a
stimulus package. There is, I would submit, no more important
piece of legislation in terms of stimulus for this economy than
this farm and energy legislation that is before the Congress
now. And so we are going to need your help, and I am confident
that working with Governor Schafer as Secretary of Agriculture
and with the White House that we can come to an accommodation
that is a responsible and principled compromise.
With that, again, my colleagues, I want to commend Governor
Schafer to you. And again, I want to thank Chairman Harkin for
your very rapid and again gracious response of my request to
move this hearing up so that he would at least have the
possibility of going into that chamber with the rest of the
President's cabinet.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad.
And now our other colleague, the esteemed Senator from
Congress, Senator Dorgan, Chairman of Indian Affairs, also a
colleague of mine on the Appropriations Committee, where he
chairs the Energy and Water Appropriations Subcommittee. But I
can also tell you he is an individual who constantly keeps tabs
on agriculture on our committee and is always involved on the
floor and in all our deliberations when it comes to
agriculture. So again, we again welcome our colleague, Senator
Dorgan, to the Committee.
STATEMENT OF HON. BYRON L. DORGAN, A U.S. SENATOR FROM THE
STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA
Senator Dorgan. Mr. Chairman, thank you very much and
thanks to the Committee members for hearing us. It is obvious
to all of you, I hope, that we North Dakotans are very proud
that President Bush has nominated one of our own to be
Secretary of Agriculture and I am here to offer very strong
support for the nomination of Ed Schafer to be the new
Secretary.
Governor Schafer, as you know, has served two terms as
North Dakota's chief executive. He, I think, has firsthand
experience on many of the issues that confront us at the USDA.
Rural development, trade, energy, conservation, farm policy,
all of these are issues that he has dealt with. So he brings, I
think, a lot of experience to the job. Governing a farm State
like North Dakota has prepared him well for this job.
I might say that in all the years that we have worked
together and I have observed Ed Schafer, only on one occasion
did I observe him actually shrinking from a challenge and that
was because he served as Governor in a neighborhood where our
neighboring State, Minnesota, decided to elect a professional
wrestler as Governor----
[Laughter.]
Senator Dorgan.--Jesse Ventura--and then Minnesota
residents decided to begin wearing T-shirts that said, ``Our
Governor can beat up on your Governor.'' North Dakotas in
response began to wear T-shirts saying, ``Our Governor says,
prove it.''
[Laughter.]
Senator Dorgan. Governor Schafer seemed sensibly
uninterested and nervous about that.
[Laughter.]
Senator Dorgan. But we have worked together. The three of
us have worked with Governor Schafer and we are here to say
this is an important job. But even more important than that,
this is an important time. We have got to get a farm bill done.
And you know, this is not about a bunch of us with blue suits
and bright lights. It is about a family that gets up this
morning at 5:30 to do chores and living out there under a yard
light and wonders whether there is going to be a decent safety
net when trouble comes. That is what this is all about.
So this is so important. I hope you will move immediately
to approve Governor Schafer's nomination. To his wife, Nancy,
and Kari, I think it is important to say, thanks for being
willing to serve your country. It is not just the nominee, but
the family. I think it is important to say, as well, that
public service honors the commitment we make to our country's
future. I think when people come to this table as a cabinet
nominee and present themselves and say, ``I am willing to
serve,'' I think it inspires this democracy of ours.
So the Committee can advance that cause of inspiring
democracy today by moving quickly to approve this nomination of
Governor Schafer to the post of Secretary of Agriculture.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Dorgan.
We welcome to this side of the Capitol our colleague,
Congressman Pomeroy, again a member of the Agriculture
Committee in the House, but also a member of the very powerful
Ways and Means Committee.
STATEMENT OF HON. EARL POMEROY, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS
FROM THE STATE OF NORTH DAKOTA
Mr. Pomeroy. Mr. Chairman, it is a great pleasure to be at
the Senate Agriculture Committee. I feel very at home here. I
have got Senator Nelson, with whom I worked on State insurance
regulation, and Senator Lincoln, Senator Roberts, Senator
Chambliss, Senator Thune, and Senator Brown, all of whom we
worked with in the House. I wondered what happened to you all.
I see you are doing well.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Pomeroy. You seem to have found one another. I----
Senator Roberts. It is assisted living.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Pomeroy. Well, let me get to the point of the hearing.
I think that it is a deep honor for North Dakota to have one of
its own, Governor Schafer, nominated to be Secretary of
Agriculture. You know, North Dakota is agriculture. Agriculture
is North Dakota. It is the biggest part of our economy, always
has been, and I think it always will be.
So it is impossible to serve as Governor of North Dakota
without being thoroughly familiar with agriculture, family
farming, the core of production agriculture in our country, how
these rural economies depend on the family farmer, how the
family farmer stakes all at the beginning of a crop year to
vagaries of weather or markets, and how the Federal Government
has to play a role in helping these farmers navigate those
unavoidable risks in order to keep family farming as the
centerpiece of U.S. agriculture production.
You know, as I think about the years where we served as a
Congressional delegation with Governor Schafer, those were some
wild times. You could call him the Disaster Governor, not
because he was a disaster but because North Dakota seemed to
have nothing but during those 8 years. We had drought. We had
flood. We had fire. We had eight Statewide disasters. It is
very appropriate that Mayors of Grand Forks and Fargo are with
us in this hearing today because of the critical leadership the
Governor provided, working with the delegation during those
years on the deep problems faced by each of those major cities.
Senator Thune was certainly an important part of our effort in
the House and North Dakota will always be grateful to you,
Senator, for the role you played in those critical days.
Well, Governor Schafer also saw during the 1990's not just
natural disasters, but markets that were really something and
the trouble we had when we had a farm bill that didn't respond,
a price support safety net during years of market collapse.
So I think that the Governor is going to bring a wealth of
real practical agricultural experience into this position, in
addition, the management experience of having run a State, a
$4.2 billion budget, 12,000 employees. I note that during his
time, he had a pilot initiative to revitalize rural
communities, led a trade missions to China. These are all
wonderful points of prior experience to bring to the position
of Secretary. I know that he will bring common sense real
priorities into that job and I hope that he is given enough of
an operating margin so he can bring his own leadership to bear.
Like Senator Conrad said, at this hour when we need to find
some common ground, I think that Governor Schafer, hopefully
soon to be Secretary Schafer, can help us find it. I am going
to be a conferee on the farm bill representing Ways and Means,
so I look forward to working very directly with you as we get
this farm bill done.
I apologize for needing to leave early. The last plane to
North Dakota leaves in a few minutes, and I need to be on it.
But I appreciate very much you listening to me. It is great to
see you all again. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. Mr. Chairman, might I just say that on that
plane with Congressman Pomeroy, after agreement with Governor
Schafer, will be roughly 80 percent of the farm program
benefits.
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. We look for some fair distribution, but----
[Laughter.]
Chairman Harkin. Thank you all very much. Senator Dorgan,
Senator Conrad, Congressman Pomeroy, I know you all have busy
schedules. We thank you for being here. You are welcome to join
us if you like, but you will be excused to continue your work
at other places.
Governor Schafer, required of all nominees, would you
please stand and raise your right hand.
Do you swear or affirm that the testimony you are about to
provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the
truth, so help you, God?
Mr. Schafer. I do, so help me, God.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you. And one last question, it is a
mandatory one. Do you agree, Governor, that if confirmed, you
will appear before any duly constituted committee of Congress
if asked to appear?
Mr. Schafer. I do, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much. Governor, thank you
very much again for listening to all this. You can see that
there is obviously an intense interest in this position by this
Committee and a willingness and a hope to work with you to get
our farm bill through and signed by the President and to get it
done in timely implemented.
So with that, again, I welcome you to the Committee. We
have your statement that will be made a part of the record in
its entirety and you may please proceed as you so desire.
STATEMENT OF HON. EDWARD T. SCHAFER, NOMINEE TO BE SECRETARY,
U.S. DEPARTMENT OF AGRICULTURE
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am pleased to be
here. It is an honor to appear before your committee today. I
especially want to thank Senators Conrad and Dorgan and
Representative Pomeroy for your very kind words. It is
gratifying that while we have differed politically at times, we
have been able to work together for the good of the great State
of North Dakota. Over the years, to all of you, I have
appreciated your advice and counsel and friendship, and it is
indeed an honor to have Team North Dakota introducing me here
to the Committee this afternoon.
I am extremely thankful that my wonderful spouse, Nancy, is
here with me today. I love you, dear. Among her many roles in
my life, she remains an important connection to farm issues,
having been raised on a small grain and livestock farm in North
Central Montana. Her example of growing up with no running
water, sleeping on the living room couch as her bed, and
swimming in the stock tank, to becoming the First Lady of North
Dakota is inspiring and it is a great example of the values and
the character that are instilled by a rural lifestyle.
Our youngest daughter is here with us, also. Thanks for
being with us, Kari. We really appreciate her being here. Our
other children, Tom and Ellie and Eric, couldn't join us, but
they are gathered around their televisions. Hi kids.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Schafer. I would also like to take this opportunity to
personally thank the 640,000 citizens of North Dakota, as they
are my supporters, the shapers and encouragers in my life.
Since this hearing room is a bit small to invite them all here
today, I have to settle for thanking them from afar.
Mr. Chairman and esteemed members of the Committee, you
have all seen my resume, so I won't use the Committee's time to
discuss at length my life's professional experience, which I
believe well qualifies me for this position. However, I would
like to speak briefly about the question most of you asked me
when we met face-to-face prior to this hearing. Why do you want
to be Secretary of Agriculture? Answering this question is a
good way to start this hearing. How I arrived here today and
the path I took through life will, I believe, explain why I
want to lead the United States Department of Agriculture.
The first part of my answer comes from Senator Dave
Durenberger and a saying that he was given at his swearing-in
ceremony here in the Capitol. It reads, the sign of God is that
we will be led where we do not expect to go. I believe God
prepared me for this assignment and led me here, and for that,
I am grateful.
The second part of my answer starts with a shipbuilder. I
bet you didn't expect that in front of the Agriculture
Committee hearing here, but my maternal grandfather arrived on
our shores in 1901 from Denmark with seven cents in his pocket,
the clothes on his back, and this very ring that I wear today.
He eventually arrived in Western North Dakota, not to build
ships, but to homestead a quarter section of land. His
shipbuilding skills did come in handy when he needed to put up
a barn that looked an awful lot like an upside down boat.
But he was committed to making a better life for himself
and his family and he became a good farmer and with my
grandmother, Johanna, raised seven children there. He had no
idea of the influence he would have on generations to come, and
unfortunately, he didn't live to see me elected as the 30th
Governor of the great State of North Dakota or nominated to be
Secretary of Agriculture. He probably wouldn't have believed
it, either, but I do believe he would be proud.
On the other hand, my paternal grandfather died when my
father was 16 years old. Dad decided then to move off the farm
and staked out a life in town. As a traveling salesman, he
discovered a better way to clean and shine linoleum and started
selling Gold Seal floor Wax door to door. Harold Schafer's
customers were people living in farmhouses that dotted the
land. When business built up, the first store accounts were
small rural hardware stores, lumberyards, and grocery stores.
His business success was based on the economy generated by
agriculture.
From both sides of my family, I am a product steeped in
agriculture tradition and economy. In my work as Governor, I
developed a passion for the rural community because I saw the
value that people living there bring to our republic. There is
no doubt in my mind that the agrarian community produces people
with the virtues of courage, hard work, justice, honor, truth,
and hardiness, the cornerstones that hold up the United States
of America.
By the grace of God, I have grown up in this free country,
the progeny of a homesteader and a businessman. I have had the
privilege of carrying the opportunities of my education,
experience, and heritage to a long and successful career in
both the public and private sectors of our society.
When President Abraham Lincoln founded the USDA in 1862, he
called it ``The People's Department'' because of its ability to
improve the lives of so many Americans in so many different
ways.
I arrive here today with my heart in agriculture and my
foundation in business, a combination that I hope you will
agree is a perfect fit for the rigors of administrating and
managing the USDA.
I want to express my appreciation to President Bush for
nominating me to lead this important agency, and if I am so
honored to be confirmed by the U.S. Senate for this job, I
pledge to work with each of you and this Committee during these
exciting times for agriculture.
If confirmed, I look forward to having the opportunity to
stand beside what I know already to be the great employees of
the USDA, to help enhance our country's vibrant agriculture
economy, advance renewable energy, and protect America's safe
and low-cost food supply. I will devote myself to improving the
nutrition and health, enhancing rural infrastructure, promoting
good stewardship of our National Forests, and conserving our
natural resources. And finally, if confirmed, I pledge to work
tirelessly to ensure that the USDA programs are administered
efficiently and effectively, and most important, with fairness
and equality. The American people deserve no less from the
People's Department.
Mr. Chairman and members of the Committee, to start this
journey, I humbly ask you for your support for confirmation and
I look forward to serving the people of the United States of
America. If in some small way I can contribute to the
preservation and protection of our foundational strength
through agriculture, then in the end, I believe I will have
done my job well.
Mr. Chairman, I submit my comments for the record. Thank
you again for the opportunity to appear before you today and I
look forward to answering your and the Committee's questions.
[The prepared statement of Hon. Edward T. Schafer can be
found on page 51 in the appendix.]
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Governor.
We will now start a round of 5-minute questions. I will,
after my questioning and the Ranking Member's, I will recognize
Senators in order of appearance, and it will be as follows:
Senator Conrad, Senator Roberts, Senator Lugar, Senator
Salazar, Senator Thune, Senator Coleman, Senator Klobuchar, and
Senator Lincoln, in order of appearance that came to the
Committee.
Governor Schafer, again, we are not expecting you to answer
in great detail program and policy questions that you will have
to delve into as Secretary. You will have to take more time to
get up to speed on that. We understand all of that. But it
does, I think, seem reasonable to ask you some of your views on
the Federal Government's proper role in our food and
agriculture system and in rural communities.
For example, just a broad opening question, what do you
believe should be the role of the Federal Government in
providing financial assistance to farmers and ranchers?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
question because it is really why I am here today and so
pleased to have been nominated for the Secretarial position. I
believe that the USDA is a strong advocate for agriculture.
They have delivered the safety net programs responsibly and
efficiently to the farmers, ranchers, and land owners of this
country.
You know, as always when I speak to farmers around, they
say, well, I am not so sure I like government in my business
and I would like to be able to operate more on my own, and also
they talk about the importance that the agriculture programs
bring to them. I think it is important to note that the
government and through the taxpayers of the United States of
America provide good support programs, not only for farmers and
ranchers, but provide nutrition, nutrition assistance,
inspections, providing a safe and clean and constant food
supply. The government, through the USDA in this case,
certainly operates well and efficiently in that arena.
So I believe that the role of the USDA is to bridge that
gap between the government programs that are put forward by the
policymaking branch of government to the people who are
actually working the land, who are depending on the safety net
programs and support programs, and those people of the United
States who are often forced to partake in the support programs
out there for their everyday lives. If we can at the USDA
bridge the gap between the government and the people who depend
and rely on the programs, I think we will have done our job
well.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you. Governor, in 1997, you wrote a
letter as Governor of North Dakota to President Clinton urging
him to sign a bill providing agriculture disaster relief to
farmers from North Dakota and other States affected by long-
term droughts and other weather problems. The cost of that bill
was $8.4 billion. It was designated emergency spending. It did
not require a budget offset.
Over the last several years, President Bush has
consistently demanded cuts in other farm programs in order to
pay for agriculture disaster assistance. On two occasions, farm
bill funding was taken away to pay for disaster assistance. As
everyone heard me say any times, over $3.9 billion was taken
from conservation program for disaster payments and was never
replaced.
Given this history, could you enlighten us as to what your
current view is on the need for budget offsets for disaster
assistance programs.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the
question involving my writing a letter to the agency, because
as Governor of North Dakota, I interacted with the programs
often and I did write a letter to President Clinton not once
but many times. As noted, we had several disasters in North
Dakota during my tenure. I also wrote letters to the agency
encouraging the delivery of programs in special ways in
disaster conditions.
As Governor of the State of North Dakota, you know, it was
easy to be a champion for my State and to talk to the leaders
of the farm and ranch groups, to talk to individual farmers and
ranchers, and to understand the need for this disaster
assistance, and I was glad so to write that letter.
Now, if I am confirmed, I move into the national arena and
no longer would champion any State-specific needs but look at
the overall policy and the needs of this nation. Importantly,
disaster safety net programs are a part of past farm bills and
need to be a part of future farm bills. I understand that
through the negotiations and conversations and debates that
have taken place between the legislative branch and the
executive branch that there are some differences of opinion
about disaster, and as I stated, you know, there are the
different views that I have been catching up on and briefed on
and certainly seen in the news.
But importantly, I believe that a good farm program needs
to have a safety net for the risk of doing business as farmers.
I will look forward, if I am confirmed, to working with you to
help bridge the gap or narrow the differences between the
executive and legislative branch, to come to a conclusion, to
sign a farm bill that is appropriately paid for by the citizens
and takes care of farmers and ranchers and land owners in this
country in an appropriate manner that includes a safety net
that allows them to operate and to do business well.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you. I see my 5 minutes is up.
Senator Chambliss?
Senator Chambliss. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, the farm bill that we passed out of the Senate
has a provision in there for disaster which is a very unique
approach, a very different approach. It is funded by not
raising taxes on the American people and I urge you to take a
quick look at it as soon as you occupy the office so that as we
go through the conference process that you will be very
familiar with that and can render the good advice that I know
you are prepared to give to the White House.
Speaking of that, we originally dealt with Under Secretary
Keenam as a part of writing of the Senate farm bill. Now that
we are into conference, as expected, Acting Secretary Conner
has been our main contact at the White House. Now you are going
to be the third voice of reason injected into the process and
we certainly look forward to that.
As you might can imagine, cotton is a very important crop
to my home State. Cotton production has changed over the years,
as has the market and destination for cotton, but it still
remains just a critical crop from the standpoint of growth as
well as economic production in the United States.
Ten years ago, Europe accounted for a significant share of
world trade and now consumption to the region accounts for
relatively little with respect to cotton. By contrast, Asia now
accounts for more than half of the world's cotton mill use.
Because the market continues to evolve, Cotton Outlook, the
leading commercial provider of international cotton market
information and analysis, will discontinue the North European A
Index values beginning August 1, 2008. This will require a
change in how the Department determines the adjusted world
price for the Upland Cotton Marketing Loan Program.
The Department has the authority to make appropriate
adjustments for determining and calculating AWP and my question
to you is will the Department and you as the head of the
Department ensure that an accurate world price is discovered in
the absence of a North European index and base the
determination on publicly available price information? And can
you give us the assurance that this transition will be made
seamlessly, in a manner that will maintain the confidence of my
producers as well as the entire cotton industry that they have
in USDA's administration of the cotton program?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator. I appreciate your
confidence in me, and I would note that earlier today, I was
admiring myself in the mirror and have the nice white cotton
shirt on. That made the image pretty good.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Schafer. But I appreciate the question and it is
something that I am anxious for, because if I am confirmed, I
really am looking forward to getting to the agency. There are
many people over there who are steeped in agriculture policy
and direction and I really look forward to getting fully
briefed on the issues, especially with cotton. As you know,
being from a Northern State, I don't have as much background
and experience in cotton and some other Southern crops, but I
look forward to the opportunity of working with you and
checking out those peanuts and getting up to speed on the
issues. So I would look forward to getting to the agency,
finding out the intricacies of the details and working with you
to move forward.
Importantly, I believe that the role of the USDA is to
deliver the policies, programs, and directions from this body
as best as possible. If I am confirmed, I will lead an agency
that is responsive to you, that has built a partnership with
this Committee so that we can look at those issues and
difficulties.
I would also note that when speaking with the President, he
asked me to get involved in trade issues. As these trade issues
come to the forefront, I look forward to working with the White
House on international trade, how they affect crops and
cropping patterns in the United States as well as
internationally, and would seek your advice and counsel as we
move forward.
Senator Chambliss. And when you get home tonight, check
that label to make sure that is U.S. cotton that your shirt was
made from.
[Laughter.]
Senator Chambliss. Over the last several years, I have come
to have a passion in something Republicans--you might be
surprised--have a significant interest in. Part of it is due to
my friend, Senator Lugar, but we have a great network of food
banks in my State that serve such a critical function. As a
part of the work that our food banks do all around the country,
USDA, in particular this Committee, has been involved in the
Emergency Food Assistance Program and providing excess
agricultural products to those food banks. There have been some
years when we haven't been able to provide as much as we would
want to. Now, as we are in the midst of a slow-down in the
economy of this country, I think this is the kind of issue that
strikes at the heart of what USDA should be involved in and
what the Senate Agriculture Committee should be involved in,
and as a result of the efforts of this Committee, we are with
our farm bill.
But I would just simply ask you to commit to working with
the relevant agencies at USDA to continue to look at innovative
ways to help provide excess agricultural products that are
available to these food banks around the country.
Thank you very much, and we look forward to moving your
nomination.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Chambliss. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Senator Conrad?
Senator Conrad. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. One thing I would
like my colleagues to know is a little bit more about the
background of the Governor. We grew up together, just blocks
apart. His father was the most successful businessman in our
State as I was growing up. I had Mr. Bubble bubble bath and
Snowy bleach. Those are names that I think most everybody
recognizes. But more than that, his father----
Senator Chambliss. Were they taking neighborhood bubble
baths? Is that what----
[Laughter.]
Senator Conrad. These Georgia peanut guys--we are always
having trouble with them.
His father was also the most generous philanthropist in our
State, and never for publicity's sake. I can remember when I
was of college age, Harold Schafer invited me to his office and
asked me if I needed help going through college. It turned out
in my case we did not, but I know that he did that for dozens
of young people in my hometown, outside of our hometown, helped
people go through school. When people had a problem in their
families or tragedy, often the first person on the doorstep was
Harold Schafer to help out quietly. It says something about the
quality and the character of the family that he comes from, so
I think people should know that.
On a specific note, we are working right now as we move
through the Conference Committee with the special challenge of
the question of new revenue. Our bill is over the so-called
baseline. The administration's own bill is $8 billion over the
baseline, not surprising, because we have written this farm
bill with $17 billion less in the baseline than we wrote the
last bill. So if we are going to have, for example, a strong
energy provision, we are going to need revenue to do that. If
we are going to deal with the other demands in terms of
nutrition and safety net, there is going to have to be some new
revenue.
I just say, the bill and the revenue provisions that are in
the Senate version passed the Senate Finance Committee 17 to
four, totally bipartisan, totally noncontroversial, but we have
heard White House objection. We are working in the Finance
Committee now on a new package that the Finance Committee has
identified as provisions that have passed previously, not gone
through the whole process, but passed one body or the other
with White House support, with support from the House of
Representatives, but have never been implemented, so that we
can come forward with a new package of revenue that should be
totally noncontroversial.
I am not going to ask you, and I don't think it is
appropriate at this point for you to have this put to you,
because this is going to have to deal with the White House, but
I think it is very important that you know there is a very
serious effort underway at the direction of the Chairman of the
Committee, working with the Chairman of the Finance Committee
and working with the Ranking Member, to identify new revenue
sources for this bill that would be totally noncontroversial.
But I just want you to know, I think in the judgment of this
Committee, there is no way to write this bill and pay for it
without some revenue source given the circumstances we
confront.
Again, I want to congratulate you on your nomination.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much. Senator Lugar, I am
sorry, Senator Roberts. I apologize. Senator Roberts?
Senator Roberts. No need to apologize, Mr. Chairman. I
always knew that Kent Conrad was squeaky clean, but I didn't
know it was because of the bubble baths of Ed's dad.
[Laughter.]
Senator Roberts. Did you do that every Saturday night, or--
--
Senator Conrad. Pretty much.
Senator Roberts. Pretty much, whether you needed it or not.
[Laughter.]
Senator Roberts. Governor Schafer, you have my vote and
best wishes. Return with me now to the not-so-thrilling days of
yesteryear, when just last year we faced the budget challenge
that Senator Conrad has talked about. Much of that challenge,
as he has indicated, was over funding and finding offsets,
which is the new game in town, for new programs or to increase
any program. It was embarrassing. As a matter of fact, it was a
little ugly to see Kent and myself crawling around on our hands
and knees, looking under every chair, every cushion for any
change that we could find. But that is what we had to do and we
did come up with a bipartisan approach in the Finance Committee
and I hope we can do that again.
But after all that was decided, despite this challenge,
there was an effort to keep the direct payment rates at their
current levels. I truly appreciated your list of priorities. I
would only add one in and that is to preserve farm income,
which I think is the biggest rural development program of all.
In their own proposal released almost a year ago, the
Department actually offered a slight increase in the direct
payment, roughly $5.5 billion worth, if I recall, and this is
the most trade-friendly program in the commodity title. As
Frank Sinatra and Kermit the Frog can tell you, it isn't easy
being green. If you use the Direct Payment Program and you
believe in Doha and the trade rounds, it is the greenest
program.
It is also the only program, along with crop insurance,
that actually assists farmers and their lenders during times of
loss. When prices are high, the countercyclical program does
not help producers when they have lost the crop. And you have
just gone through, or as Kent has pointed out, eight times you
went through that when you were Governor--eight times. We have
gone through it four of the last five years in Kansas, four.
You had eight charts. I only had four. But we just went through
a terrible time in Kansas. We had a blizzard and we had
tornadoes sweeping entire towns away, and then we had all of
Southeast Kansas underwater. Then we got into an ice storm. I
don't know what is next, maybe a plague of locusts. I certainly
hope not.
But at any rate, we figured it up, and under the
countercyclical program, despite the best efforts of this
Committee and others and the administration and everybody
concerned and the farm organizations, all the commodity groups,
if you lose a crop, you are really in trouble because all you
have is that direct payment and crop insurance, which, by the
way, Bob Kerrey and I worked on for an awfully long time and
that is what we have to rely on. And if you have a good crop
insurance program, it makes the disaster payment less--you have
to rely less on a disaster payment.
I have a little bit different view. I think if you set up
the fund, you spend it, as opposed to disaster by disaster.
There are two views to that. We only seem to have the disaster
especially during an even-numbered year.
At any rate, we now have the administration, both the House
and the Senate, on record supporting the Direct Payments
Program at the current level. There are some that may want to
reopen that debate, use the Direct Payment Program to offset
increases. How do you view the Direct Payment Program? Will the
administration continue to vigorously support the program as
they did in their farm bill proposal?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator. I can tell you, as
Governor of an agriculture State, in visiting with the farmers
and ranchers across our State, I know that direct payments are
an important part of the program. I understand that there are
some issues here, and today in the exciting times of
agriculture, when prices are as high as anybody can remember--
--
Senator Roberts. I am going to interrupt you for just a
minute, and I apologize for this--we do this all the time, so
don't worry about it----
[Laughter.]
Senator Roberts [continuing]. These prices, just ask at any
North Dakota coffee shop or any Kansas coffee shop, do you
think these prices will continue? This situation is similar to
the Russian grain sale. We can all go back to the times when
the prices have been up and down. These are astounding prices,
due in part to renewable fuels and demand in regards to
worldwide crops, India, China, so on and so forth. I know that.
But I also know that it can go down the other way. And again,
it is for the farmer who doesn't have a crop. The farm program
should be aimed at the farmer when he needs it the most, and
these are the two things that you can do. One is crop
insurance. One is direct payments. I apologize for interrupting
you.
Mr. Schafer. I am glad you did, Senator. I appreciate the
clarification and I agree with you. These are important safety
net issues. As I mentioned earlier, I believe that a farm bill
has to include those issues. I hear from farmers and ranchers
all across North Dakota that rely on those direct payments and
crop insurance payouts in time of disaster. As Governor, I have
been through over and over and over again, as you mentioned,
disaster situations, whether it was floods or that dealt with
prevented and even late planting. Things are difficult out
there if you don't get a crop, as you mentioned.
So I understand the good parts of the farm bill. I have
listened to farmers complain about the bad parts of the farm
bill. I just look forward to, if I am confirmed, to working
with you to understand those issues strongly and be an advocate
for them.
I grew up with farmers as neighbors and I want to make sure
that those farmers and ranchers understand that the Federal
Government, the taxpayers, and this Committee and the Senate is
behind them. I believe that we all want to deliver programs
that help our country's farmers manage the farm economy during
times of problems and distress. I believe that the USDA has
delivered programs well in the past, and if I am confirmed, I
look forward to the opportunity of helping deliver those
programs as best as possible.
Senator Roberts. Thank you for your response and thank you,
Mr. Chairman. I apologize for going over my time.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much. And now, Senator
Lugar.
Senator Lugar. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, we have been reading, at least those of us who
are interested in agriculture newsletters, words from Collin
Peterson, the Chairman on the House side, with regard to the
farm bill and these suggest that the administration has two
large objections. There may be smaller ones. One, Senator
Conrad has touched upon, and that is the means of financing the
farm bill as found in the House and the Senate, and the other,
the lack of limits on payments to farmers who receive very
large amounts from the farm bill. There were amendments offered
on the floor. The Senator from Minnesota offered one, as I
recall. Others offered some capping at $1 million, $750,000,
what have you.
One of the intriguing facts of the hearing we had with
Secretary Johanns was the number of committee members who
seemed preoccupied with the thought that Secretary Johanns was
in favor of limiting the payments to $200,000 or some such
amount, which would lead one to believe that a good number of
our colleagues are tremendously interested in having higher
payments, and very clearly the amendments to limit any of these
failed. So this is one objection the administration, as I see
it, has to the farm bill.
The financing parts, and I am intrigued by what our
colleague, Senator Conrad, has said, that he has worked on
trying to think of some other way to pay for this, and maybe
that will turn out to be more successful. But for the moment,
Collin Peterson says to some agriculture newsletters, we are
going to finish the conference on this bill, it will be vetoed,
then we will try again and somehow get to conclusion before the
March recess with a bill that the President can sign.
Now, you come into the picture in the middle of all of
this, and obviously you can certainly reserve judgment as to
what the administration is saying to anybody, but what sort of
road map do you foresee for the conclusion of a farm bill, or
do you foresee extension of the current bill for a period of
time? Some of the programs at some point come to an end. At
least some farmers are concerned about jeopardy of some
programs if the Senate and the House are not able to act and
the President sign it, so that we will be coming back to look
at emergencies of that sort fairly early in your tenure. Do you
have any comment about all of this?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator. I share the same
enthusiasm and excitement in the agriculture community today,
and I want to congratulate this Committee and the work that was
done to put the farm bill together. I applaud the tremendous
support from both sides of the aisle to put forth a good new
farm policy and farm bill.
As was mentioned, I am the new kid on the block and I am
looking forward to getting to the agency and getting fully
briefed. I have read the elements of the farm bill; however I
must admit that I haven't read word-for-word the full 1,000
pages, but I do look forward to getting over to the agency. I
want to commend Acting Secretary Chuck Conner, who has been the
lead point person in driving the Administration's policy and
interacting with the Senate and the Senate Agriculture
Committee regarding the issues.
I really look forward to, if I am confirmed, getting over
there, standing side-by-side with Chuck Conner and the other
great members of the employee base at USDA and working with you
to help craft that difference. You know, there is a gap between
the legislative and executive branches here and I hope that as
the new kid on the block, I can come in with a fresh
perspective, a different outlook, and be able to narrow that
gap, because I know that the President wants to sign a new farm
bill this year, and I think all of us working together
hopefully can accomplish that.
Senator Lugar. Thank you very much, and good luck.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you.
Senator Lugar. Good luck.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Harkin. This would be Senator Thune.
Senator Thune. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, I have got a concern over the amount of time that
USDA has taken to implement two recent programs. One is the Ad
Hoc Disaster Program that we passed, the Congress passed last
May. It took USDA 5 months before beginning sign-up and 7
months before payments were made. The State Areas for Wildlife
Enhancement, or the SAFE program, was announced in March of
2007 and still no sign-up date has been announced nearly 10
months later.
Of course, the farm bill will be much more complex under
the programs under the farm bill, and I guess my question is
what steps will you take as the Secretary of Agriculture to
ensure the timely delivery of farm bill programs based upon the
sort of just lack of any sort of timely progress in terms of
implementing these other programs that I just mentioned.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator. Certainly, as Governor, I
had the chance to interact with farm programs and the delivery
of farm programs and heard from farmers, ranchers and land
owners across my State when there were problems, slowdowns, or
when things didn't get delivered.
One of the things that I believe I was successful with as
Governor was the delivery of programs that were put forth by
the legislative branch. Often, I found myself finding out where
the barriers are, getting rid of them so that the good
employees can get their jobs done as best as they can.
There are a wide variety of reasons why these barriers or
delays occur. I am not aware of the current situation, but if
confirmed, I look forward to getting to the agency and getting
briefed on this issue. I bring a management style that is open,
transparent, and willing to address problems. If there is a
slowdown, a barrier, or something in the way of delivering a
program, I believe it is my strongest mission to deliver
programs as fast, as best, and as efficiently as possible. So I
will hear the complaints, I will find out where the slowness
is, and I will try to break down those barriers and move them
faster.
Senator Thune. And I would just say that the State Areas
for Wildlife Enhancement Program, the SAFE program, is
something that my State of South Dakota is uniquely positioned
and qualified for. We have probably the best pheasant numbers
of any State in the country and had some extraordinary success
the last couple of years. USDA announced just recently which
States were going to be eligible for that program and South
Dakota wasn't one of them, and it seemed to me at least that
would have been one of the first States that they would move to
implement the program. Again, they have now started to make
some announcement about it, but they still haven't had any
sign-up, and that is going to be--like I said, that is an
announcement that came out 10 months ago.
And the disaster payments, the bill that was passed in May
of last year by the Congress, took 7 months for payments to go
out. And so I just would urge you, as you get over there, to
really home in on this and bear down on the agency's ability to
respond in terms of getting some of these important programs
implemented.
Another question I would like to ask has to do with
conservation, but I guess, would you favor language in the farm
bill that would grant you the authority to allow CRP contracts
to be terminated early without penalty. Think about that
question, and if so, under what circumstances would you
exercise the authority to allow early termination of CRP
contracts? There is a real concern out there that a lot of
ground is going to be coming out of CRP and being put into
production and there is already a lot--the contracts that are
expiring that aren't being renewed and so we have got, at least
in my State, about a half-a-million acres coming out of CRP in
the next 3 years.
So the question has to do with whether or not you would
have the authority or would like to have the authority to allow
those contracts to be terminated earlier.
Mr. Schafer. Well, thank you. I have to say I am looking
forward to, if confirmed, getting to the agency and learning
more about this. You ask what on the outside, seems to be a
relatively easy question. On the other hand, I also know from
working with people that are enrolled in CRP, that this is a
very complex issue. I know there are many people at the agency
that are tuned up on this issue and I look forward to get in
there myself.
But there are complex issues as far as farmers signing the
contract, agreeing to a time period, agreeing to a penalty if
they remove that time period fast, or faster than the full
length of the contract. Those things are at issue. The initial
CRP program was for land that wasn't the best farming property
in the history of the world. I mean, it was meant to provide
that acreage that isn't tillable or isn't great productive land
into the program to provide not only the idling of the land,
but also great wildlife habitat, as we have found out through
the life of the program.
So the way I would answer the question is I believe that it
is a complex issue. There are legal aspects involved. There are
not only cropping patterns, but wildlife preservation and
conservation issues, and I think there are lots of
opportunities to make sure that the needs of the farmers are
met, the needs of the wildlife community are met, but also to
deliver the programs that were meant and put forth by this
Committee hopefully in the new farm bill.
Senator Thune. I appreciate your answer to that. I guess I
just think it is really important that as we look at this, that
we do strike the right balance between these competing
priorities. There is a real demand for more production and for
cropping a lot of these lands that have been in CRP, and
certainly economic incentive to get out for a lot of farmers
based on current market prices. But I think it is really
important that we have a good, strong, robust CRP program and
that there are rules that were put in place for people who
enter into those contracts and I hope that as you get over
there to the agency, that you will try to strike and achieve
that balance, strike that balance and hopefully make sure that
those contracts and programs are continued in a way that
promotes good environmental stewardship coupled with the need
for production, as well. So thank you.
I can see my time is out, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you. Senator Coleman?
Senator Coleman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Governor, I was traveling last week in Mankato and Windom
and farmers there are trying to figure out what sort of safety
net they can have in 2008. I think the bankers want to know
that, too. There has been a lot of discussion, and in my
opening statement I talked about my belief that you would be a
good negotiator. You bring the right qualities to the table.
There has been a lot of talk about prospects of the President
vetoing a bill. I know Senator Conrad has been working on some
alternative offsets.
We have all tried to be very, very constructive internally
amongst ourselves. There are many points at which this bill
could have pulled apart, and even with there being some
disagreements, regionally, whatever, and my concern is that as
we work with the administration, that the attitude is--and I
understand negotiation, which is we are going to be tough here
and you are going to be tough here, but this is a process that
I think demands a positive approach. I think you have got to
send a message to the people in Windom and Mankato and other
places in Minnesota and throughout this country that we want a
farm bill and that we are going to try to figure a way, where
there are concerns about offsets. So we are working on it. But
I would just hope that I would get a little more constructive
message as you move into this position, which I hope we do
very, very quickly.
Let me just raise one other issue, one that I know you know
well. We often say that Washington is a town of a thousand
issues and a few priorities. In the Red River Valley, sugar is
a priority. It is a major concern. It is part of the economic
bedrock, the foundation of the communities there. I know that
the U.S. and Mexico recently agreed to trade terms on tomatoes,
and then I believe some time ago there was a similar
arrangement with regard to chicken in particular.
U.S. and Mexican industries--sugar--have come together and
offered some recommendations about how we can implement NAFTA
without affecting any other single industry, again, similar to,
I believe, what was done with tomatoes and chicken. It is not
reopening NAFTA, and as I have noted in regard to other
commodities, I certainly don't think it is a precedent. USDA
and USTR are already engaged with my office. I have had some
discussion, looking to get people together. My hope was that
the approach to this would be one of folks listening, sitting
down with the industries. There are going to be some changes
with the NAFTA, again, a constructive approach.
My question is, I want a sense from you about your
commitment to continue the discussion to at least approach this
with an open mind until you hear, until the administration sits
down and hears from the industry to see if, in fact, we can do
what I believe we--in the other areas, we had a problem and
then we addressed it. Here you have folks saying, before you
have a problem, is it possible to address it? So I am looking
for a commitment to being a good listener before the Department
articulates a position.
Mr. Schafer. You have that, Senator. I will be a good
listener. As you mentioned, our neighboring States deal with
sugar issues all the time. I understand the long-term aspects.
Years ago, we were fighting about trying to export our high-
fructose corn syrup into Mexico. Now that is displacing sugar
down there and they want the sugar to come up this way. Those
are trade nuances and balances that go back and forth and we
are seeing the long-term effects of what our trade policy and
directions do. So I really look forward to working with you and
listening to you with the intention of figuring out what is the
best public policy direction for these issues.
I would note, I was very pleased to have already received
several letters from the Mexican Consulate congratulating me
for coming, but also looking forward to opening the door to
working on these issues together. If I am confirmed, I will
have the ability to get the sides together and understand the
differences and make some progress.
Senator Coleman. I think that would be very helpful. I for
4 years was the Chairman of the Western Hemisphere Subcommittee
on Foreign Relations. I am on the Foreign Relations Committee.
I recently met with the Mexican ambassador and raised this
issue. All too often on trade, we look at, well, if we open
this up, it is going to open another door here and there is
going to be a problem. This is one where, because this would be
good for American sugar but bad for Mexican, so the Mexicans
are going to want something else when it comes to pork, this is
a little unique here in that you have folks on both sides
saying, we want to work out something not impacting other
industries, not calling for tradeoffs, and perhaps avoiding a
problem before it begins.
So I am pleased with, one, what I know to be your style is
to be a listener and to be fair, and bringing the clear
understanding and sensitivity you have to the importance of the
industry as it impacts both my neighborhood and your
neighborhood, in essence, and all of us. So I appreciate your
response, Governor.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you.
Senator Coleman. Thank you.
Senator Conrad. Mr. Chairman, might I ask our colleagues
for a moment of indulgence to just introduce two mayors who are
here with us?
Chairman Harkin. Absolutely.
Senator Conrad. From two of the major cities in North
Dakota, Mayor Walaker of Fargo, if you would stand, and Mayor
Brown of Grand Forks. And also here, Phil Harmeson representing
the University of North Dakota, which is the Governor's alma
mater. So we have got not only the North Dakota Congressional
delegation, but other important figures in North Dakota who are
here supporting the Governor's nomination.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Senator Conrad, and
we certainly welcome you to the Agriculture Committee here
today. You will all notice there is one thing different about
this room than all other committee rooms in the entire U.S.
Senate. We don't sit on a dais and look down on people. We all
sit around a table. It is very collegial, sort of in keeping
with the atmosphere of this Committee going back for years. I
have to say that this is my seventh farm bill, and in my
experience, farm bills are by their nature never partisan.
Regional, yes.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Harkin. Oh, we can get into regional disputes but
never partisan. I think the way we sit around this table, I
think is very indicative of that. There have been suggestions
in the past about changing this, but I am sitting here with,
let me see, one, two, three, at least three or four former
Chairmen of the Committee and every one of them have all
deigned to keep this the same and I think it makes for a good
atmosphere here. So I just wanted you all to know that you
won't see this in any other hearing room anywhere in the
Senate. I think we kind of like it that way.
Thank you very much, Senator Conrad.
Senator Klobuchar?
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I welcome our
visitors from North Dakota. I note that in Chairman Harkin's
spirit of friendliness, I appreciate that you not bring up the
embarrassing loss of my State to the North Dakota football
team.
[Laughter.]
Senator Klobuchar. But I did want to talk a little bit
about sort of following up on what Senator Conrad was talking
about, which is the need to get this farm bill through and find
this revenue, the fact that the last farm bill came in $17
billion under budget, and really the revitalizing effect it had
on so many of our rural communities.
I was thinking about this as I thought about the stimulus
package that we are talking about. While you were testifying, I
was looking at some papers about that and I think that is
important, but we really also have to look to the long-term,
and what I saw in my State in this past month was just this
enormous potential, of course, with wind and solar and all of
these things, and make sure that we have policies in place also
to keep promoting really the next generation of ethanol, the
cellulosic ethanol, which is what I wanted to focus on here.
The corn-based ethanol, the biodiesel, soybean-based
biodiesel, very important to our State. I think it is going to
get more and more efficient as we go forward. I have talked to
President Bush about this. I know he supports it. But I also
want you to note to him and to the administration the important
energy policies in this farm bill with the incentives for
cellulosic ethanol and the Biomass Crop Transition Assistance
Program. There is a similar one on the House side.
I just see this, if we are going to truly break the
shackles and the dependence on foreign oil, that we are going
to have to look to other forms of biomass, as well, and I
wondered if you would comment about this and about looking at
this farm bill also as jobs and stimulus for our rural economy.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator. I really appreciate the
question because this is an issue that I have been heavily
involved in both as a Governor and as an individual for many,
many years. I especially liked your comment about the ability
to move the energy arena into a more self-sufficient--I am
paraphrasing, but a more self-sufficient arena, because in
1996, I was Chairman of the Interstate Oil and Gas Compact
Commission, which are all of the oil and gas producing States
in the country.
As Chairman, I helped author a pamphlet that was titled,
``America: A Dependent Nation.'' At that time, we predicted
when oil imports were a little over 50 percent that there will
come a time about now that oil imports will be over 65 percent.
As we put together that forecast, we put together ways that we
can lessen our dependence on foreign energy sources.
I firmly believe that merging the energy and agriculture
arenas is a way to do that. We have seen the ethanol, and I
have supported value-added agriculture in our State, both in
fuels and other energy sources. But importantly, as we have
seen the bioenergy increases, we have seen pressures on other
areas--food prices, feed prices as people have moved their
cropping patterns from wheat to corn and those prices have gone
up. Wheat prices have gone up. We are seeing the effects.
I believe one of the most important things that we can do
to move forward is to continue the effort, the research, the
resources to make sure that we move energy efficiency into the
next level or the next area by finding feedstocks that don't
affect prices, that don't affect food price, et cetera. So
switchgrass and the other feedstocks that go into bioenergy, I
think are one of the most important issues that we can do as we
move from--keeping the focus on renewable energy, but moving
from feedstocks that affect food prices and other feed prices
and things into crops that don't do that, and certainly the
cellulosic ethanol research and effort that is in place is
going to move us in a big direction to do that.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you, and I note I was listening to
Senator Roberts talk about the green part of the bill, that
this is also a green part of the bill as we look at putting
carbon back into the soil and expanding on the successful
ethanol biodiesel we have.
Just the last thing I wanted to mention was in the USDA's
farm bill proposals, is on our reform issue, and I spoke
earlier about the need to keep considering some of the adjusted
gross income issues. But in the proposal, the USDA talked about
new rules that strengthen the now difficult-to-measure
requirements for the active management contribution to the
operation that enables individuals or entities to qualify for
commodity program payments without contributing labor to the
operation. I believe that the vast--the commodity payments are
only 15 percent of the farm bill. The vast amount of them go to
the people who deserve them. But, of course, we have these
Beverly Hills 90210, almost 100 people getting farm payments.
I am just wondering, in addition to some of the work we
have done here with the three-entity rule and the potential
work we can do with the income limits, if there is movement
afoot in the USDA to do some rulemaking or move with that or if
you would be interested in doing that to make sure that the
money is going to the farmers that deserve it.
Mr. Schafer. I appreciate you bringing that up, Senator,
because I think the response is what the people are asking for.
The people want to make sure that their tax dollars are spent
wisely, efficiently, and that they go to the people that need
them. And as you have worked with the Committee and on the
floor championing some of those issues, others have, as well,
and there has been, I think, good listening to the people
across this country to say, we need to channel these dollars in
where they need to go. We need to get them to the people that
need the help and we maybe don't have to give them to the
people that don't need the help.
Importantly, I believe that as we--I can't tell you right
now where I think the actual line is or what that cutoff level
should be. I note that both the House and the Senate have made
progress toward moving that area. They have made some reforms
in the three-entity rule, as you mentioned, but also in
lowering the subsidy caps, maybe not as far as some wanted to
go, maybe farther than others wanted to go, but I look forward
to, if I am confirmed, to getting involved in that debate
because I think what it really is, is shepherding the people's
money properly and performing to what they want to do. I know
you have some strong issues on that and I would look forward to
working with you to try to do so.
Senator Klobuchar. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lincoln?
Senator Lincoln. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Well, Governor, when you are the last on the list, almost
everything has been said or asked. You just have to kind of
reiterate it again, so I will try to piggyback on some of what
my colleagues have said. I would like to echo what Senator
Coleman mentioned. I have been home in Arkansas an awful lot
and I have been meeting with a lot of farmers who have been
also meeting with their bankers and I think there needs to be a
clear voice in terms of what they can expect for the 2008 crop
year, and so I hope that as we move forward working on the farm
bill, that at some point, there is a clear message of what they
can expect and what they are going to be expected to adhere to
in that 2008 crop year, because they are going to have to file
their plans with you by April 1, I believe, and being able to
go to their bankers and make those plans is critical.
I also hope that you will take a look at all that we have
done already. I know Senator Klobuchar mentions the need for
reform, and we have done a good deal in this bill. We have got
more reform in the bills that we have passed up here than
really in the history of the farm bill, a 70 percent cut in
some of those caps, or certainly the means testing that is
being asked. It is important, because quite frankly, from the
GAO studies that we have had, it indicates to us that before,
at least I would hope before we would take further steps than
that 70 percent cut, not knowing what the consequences are,
that we would have a better idea, and their studies indicate to
us that USDA has not been implementing a lot of the underlying
law. So it would be hard to figure where we are really going
and what those consequences would be.
So I hope under your leadership you can take a look at
that, as well, in terms of what is being implemented and what
is not so that we don't take unintended consequences from
making much deeper cuts than the 70 percent we have already
gone. So I think that is going to be critical to look at.
I think it is also important to remember what the farm bill
does. Senator Klobuchar mentioned the commodity programs and
the commodity title are less than 15 percent of the whole bill.
There are so many other things that provide us unbelievable
stimulus in our rural communities, rural development, nutrition
programs, nutrition assistance, conservation, all of those are
critical and we look forward to making sure that they are
something that is implementable.
I know you have mentioned that you are looking forward to
getting over there when we visited, taking charge with the
implementation of new authorities that might be included in
this legislation and some that already exist. I would also like
to encourage you--in the 2002 farm bill, we brought about a new
office at USDA, which was the Assistant Secretary for Civil
Rights. We have asked time and time again to see action out of
that office and I hope to encourage you to seize that
opportunity. There is much more that could be done there at a
much more rapid pace that I think would bring about a great
deal of justice to some farmers across our country.
I also hope that you will take into consideration--I don't
know what your opinions are, but when payments follow
production, it is much like I imagine what your father faced as
he grew his business, that oftentimes when you are faced with
growing crops that you are suited to grow that have much
stricter trade parameters and trade restrictions than perhaps
sugar or other things might have, that you have to farm an
economy of scale. If your father hadn't branched out and
started building an economy of scale in that business, it might
have been more difficult to be successful or to even grow his
business.
So I think those are certainly important things that I hope
that you will pay attention to. The role that you have to play,
I hope you are excited about embracing that, particularly at
this delicate time that we find ourselves in crafting a farm
bill. I know that the Under Secretary has been very diligent.
He has to be. He is a former staffer from Senator Lugar's
staff. And he does a great job in working and being in contact
with us. But we hope that you will embrace that opportunity to
take a role of leadership in there.
The last thing, when you talk about implementing, one of
the other things we hear a tremendous amount about in our farm
States from our growers and from our farm families is the
deadlines, the regulations, all of which they have to meet.
They are not capable of doing it online just yet. I know that
all of us want to move into the technological age. They do
require a lot of assistance from FSA and we hope that you will
work to strengthen both your field offices with the Farm
Services, but also USDA.
I know we have great USDA workers in our great State of
Arkansas and we encourage that from the top down, you will
encourage that engagement and support to those workers because
they, in turn, are the ones--they can't file their plans--our
farmers can't file their plans if they don't have the
information that comes from your agency. And so that connection
and that working relationship is absolutely critical and I hope
that you will engage in a one-on-one opportunity to really work
with the staff that you have in all of these States to really
be the useful and helpful agency that USDA can and should be
and is oftentimes when they have the resources and when they
have the equipment.
We look forward to working with you, as I said. I think
many of us take a great sense of pride that we have sat around
the table as we do here to come up with a very good, balanced,
bipartisan bill focused on reform, but also putting added
resources into things that are very important, whether it is
the hunger issue we deal with and the nutrition assistance that
is there, the conservation programs and others, they are all
very important to us.
So I hope that we can continue that work together. I know
you are going to get to the agency and get into all kinds of
things, so I just thought I would point out to you the things
that I look to you for in terms of your leadership roles and
the things that I hope you will embrace and engage in quickly.
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Senator.
Senator Lincoln. Thank you.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you, Senator.
Governor, we are more than willing to expedite this
process, and we will to the extent possible that we can, but
now I am going to ask you to expedite something. In 2006,
Congress reauthorized and the President signed into law the
Livestock Mandatory Reporting Act. The program is critical to
providing much-needed transparency in livestock markets.
Senator Grassley was one of the big proponents of this. The
reported prices and other information by USDA has become an
important part of fair prices paid for livestock in the United
States.
Two years later, unfortunately, the USDA has still not
published a final rule for this important program. As a result,
it is still functioning as a voluntary program, leaving the
door open for less than completely accurate reporting. And I
have got to tell you, this is during a time when I know all the
prices, wheat prices are good, bean prices are good, corn are
all great prices out there, but all of the prices are in the
tank and our pork producers need this vital information.
So as Secretary, will you make implementation of the final
rule for this program a priority and publish the final rule
without further delay?
Mr. Schafer. I will do my best, Mr. Chairman.
Chairman Harkin. Well, I hope you will do your best.
[Laughter.]
Chairman Harkin. Two other questions. During his
confirmation 3 years ago, Secretary Mike Johanns was asked more
than once about what he would do with regard to reopening U.S.
beef trade with Japan. He stated that reopening Japan was his
priority No. 1 and that he would be taking a personal
leadership role on that issue. Well, although we have resumed
the beef trade somewhat, it is still on a limited basis.
Problems continue in fully reopening trade for U.S. beef and
our producers are frustrated.
As Secretary, what will you do differently at the
Department to reopen our Asian markets for U.S. beef? What do
you think is the problem? And how soon can you address this?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am looking forward
to that effort and start addressing it upon confirmation. I
understand the issues of trade. As was mentioned earlier, I
have led a trade delegation to China from North Dakota. I also
represented President Clinton in China on an effort when this
body was working on the Most Favored Nation status and moving
China into the WTO. I am anxious to get involved in these
negotiations and the President has asked me directly to be
involved in working with the trade negotiators and the other
agencies to deal with this issue.
I know--you asked, Mr. Chairman, what is the basis of it,
what are the problems out there, and I think importantly to
note that there are science-based standards for our agriculture
exports and imports that are accepted by the International
Export Society or international governments. The OIE standards
are agreed to be met, and Japan does it and South Korea does it
and the United States does it and others agree to those
standards. Sometimes things get a little off whack and they
move away from those standards, but I know for a fact that
those OIS standards have declared the United States--the
ability for our beef meets the standards, they meet the OIG
direction. Other countries have agreed to follow those, and if
I am confirmed, I am looking forward to getting over there and
pushing as hard as I can to make sure that these countries that
have agreed to the science-based standards will actually do so.
Chairman Harkin. Well, I hope so, and we have to make it
very clear. I mean, I have talked to our Korean friends, and
they are our friends. They are good allies, a great nation. We
want--I know the President wants a Free Trade Agreement with
Korea. I am not opposed to that, but not as long as they
continue to restrict access for U.S. beef. Every time they do
something like that, the further away that Free Trade Agreement
becomes, and I hope you take that message loud and clear to the
President.
I have told my Korean friends that, unless and until they
get serious and do the right thing on our beef trade with them,
they can forget about the Free Trade Agreement. But we have got
a real problem with the Koreans on it, and Japan, too, I might
add.
Mr. Schafer. Yes.
Chairman Harkin. One last question. Governor Schafer, the
biographical information you submitted to the Committee said
that you served as President of a company called Fish 'N Dakota
from 1991 to 1997, most of the time that you were also serving
as Governor of North Dakota. Now, I have looked at the
information you provided, as well as some news articles, and I
don't know that much about it but from what I gather there were
some problems regarding taxes and sale of the business. Like I
said, I don't intend to get into all of the details, however
there were a lot of press reports about loans and obligations
incurred during your tenure that maybe were not paid in a
timely manner. There were some lawsuits and delinquencies.
My only question is this, for the record. Can you assure
this Committee that all obligations for this business venture
have been paid in full, and second, that any obligations were
not paid through government guarantees or write-offs drawing
upon government funds?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you for the opportunity to clarify that.
That issue, Mr. Chairman, is one that I have talked about
before, and as you mentioned, has been in the news and reports
of those things. I appreciated receiving a letter from the
Committee on that issue last Friday. I have responded in
writing----
Chairman Harkin. We have that.
Mr. Schafer. And noting that, I don't know how many million
forms I filled out during this process, but a lot of them were
to do with financial disclosure and whether I owed any money or
if there were any loans and outstanding balances, et cetera. I
have filled all those forms out honestly and correctly, and as
I did in writing, I want to assure you that any obligation for
Fish 'N Dakota as a company while I owned that company has been
satisfied, and any personal obligation that I have in place for
any loans, taxes, amounts due for Fish 'N Dakota, I have paid
in full.
Chairman Harkin. Were any paid through government
guarantees or write-offs drawing upon government funds, that
you know of?
Mr. Schafer. Not that I am aware of, sir. I believe that
several of the loans were a Community Block Grant loan from a
county, were from a cooperative or a county, and an electric
cooperative that lent money to the company. Those have all been
paid.
Chairman Harkin. Very good. Thank you very much. I have no
further questions. Does anybody have any follow-up questions at
all?
We had asked committee members for any written questions
they had to be submitted by 6 p.m. Maybe that is not feasible
now. But let me just say for all the staff that is here, if any
of your Senators may not have been here or if they have a
follow-up question, if we could have those in writing tonight
by 8 or so tonight. Fair enough? So if you have those
additional questions, get them in tonight. If we don't have
any, then we don't have any, but I want to give an opportunity
for Senators that may not have been able, to attend, if they
had a question or two, to get that in writing which we will
then submit to you for your response, Governor.
Yes?
Senator Conrad. Mr. Chairman, might I inquire if there is a
possibility that the Committee could take early action? This is
an unusual situation. I would not normally ask this, but it may
be a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for Governor Schafer to be
able to enter the chamber for the President's State of the
Union with the rest of the cabinet. Is there any possibility
that we could have an early vote out of the Committee so that
confirmation could be considered on the floor?
Chairman Harkin. Well, I don't know. We were just
discussing that at the beginning of the hearing here.
Senator Chambliss. Mr. Chairman, I didn't realize you had
indicated to folks they need to get their questions in by 6. I
mean, this is as big a crowd as we have had for any
confirmation hearing, I think in the last several years, and it
looks like everybody has had a full chance to be here. If you
have told others to have their questions in by 6, maybe we
could move this earlier tonight. I have gotten an indication
from all of my members who have been here that they will be
ready to come back on a moment's notice to try to get a quorum
together. Let us get this nomination passed out early this
evening.
Chairman Harkin. Well, I don't know how late we are going
to be in, but I had, because of another committee meeting,
Appropriations, I had to delay this until 2:30, so I thought,
well, we can give them an extra hour. But if we don't hear
something back from other Senators by--how about 7, give them
another hour to do that.
The problem is, the Senate rules wouldn't allow us to--we
don't have a quorum, so we can't report it out, so----
Senator Chambliss. I believe we only need 11, though, to
have a quorum, isn't that right? We can't do it now, but if we
could do it at 7, try to get 11 of us together----
Chairman Harkin. We will examine what we can do. I
understand that. I appreciate that. I have no problems with
that. Sometimes bureaucracy is a terrible thing around here, to
try to get things working and get it done, but we will try our
best. That is all I can tell you. We will try our best.
Senator Conrad. I would just say, Mr. Chairman, I would
certainly appreciate it personally if we could find a way, and
I think this Committee under your leadership has been already
so gracious. I again want to just say how much I appreciate
what you have already done.
Chairman Harkin. Well, thank you very much, Senator Conrad,
and we will do everything we can to expedite this. Sometimes
these wheels turn very slowly for some things, but we will try
our best. That is all I can tell you. I give you my word on
that. We will try our best to get it done before Monday
evening. That is all I can tell you.
Senator Conrad. I appreciate that.
Chairman Harkin. Anything else, Governor?
Mr. Schafer. Thank you, sir. I appreciate your time.
Chairman Harkin. Thank you very much, Governor. Thank you
all for being here.
The committee will stand adjourned. Now, I don't know when
we are going to try to get this together to report this out,
but we will try to work something out. That is all I can tell
you. I will work with Senator Chambliss on it. Thank you.
[Whereupon, at 5:44 p.m., the Committee was adjourned.]
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QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
January 24, 2008
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