[House Hearing, 111 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
PROGRESS ON JOBS AND SMALL
BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES AS THE
DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND
SECURITY CONSTRUCTION BEGINS IN WARD 8
=======================================================================
(111-119)
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON
ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT, PUBLIC BUILDINGS, AND EMERGENCY MANAGEMENT
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON
TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED ELEVENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
June 15, 2010
__________
Printed for the use of the
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
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COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE
JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota, Chairman
NICK J. RAHALL, II, West Virginia, JOHN L. MICA, Florida
Vice Chair DON YOUNG, Alaska
PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon THOMAS E. PETRI, Wisconsin
JERRY F. COSTELLO, Illinois HOWARD COBLE, North Carolina
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee
Columbia VERNON J. EHLERS, Michigan
JERROLD NADLER, New York FRANK A. LoBIONDO, New Jersey
CORRINE BROWN, Florida JERRY MORAN, Kansas
BOB FILNER, California GARY G. MILLER, California
EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas HENRY E. BROWN, Jr., South
GENE TAYLOR, Mississippi Carolina
ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland TIMOTHY V. JOHNSON, Illinois
LEONARD L. BOSWELL, Iowa TODD RUSSELL PLATTS, Pennsylvania
TIM HOLDEN, Pennsylvania SAM GRAVES, Missouri
BRIAN BAIRD, Washington BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania
RICK LARSEN, Washington JOHN BOOZMAN, Arkansas
MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
TIMOTHY H. BISHOP, New York Virginia
MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine JIM GERLACH, Pennsylvania
RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida
GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California CHARLES W. DENT, Pennsylvania
DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois CONNIE MACK, Florida
MAZIE K. HIRONO, Hawaii LYNN A WESTMORELAND, Georgia
JASON ALTMIRE, Pennsylvania JEAN SCHMIDT, Ohio
TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota CANDICE S. MILLER, Michigan
HEATH SHULER, North Carolina MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma
MICHAEL A. ARCURI, New York VERN BUCHANAN, Florida
HARRY E. MITCHELL, Arizona BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
CHRISTOPHER P. CARNEY, Pennsylvania ANH ``JOSEPH'' CAO, Louisiana
JOHN J. HALL, New York AARON SCHOCK, Illinois
STEVE KAGEN, Wisconsin PETE OLSON, Texas
STEVE COHEN, Tennessee VACANCY
LAURA A. RICHARDSON, California
ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland
SOLOMON P. ORTIZ, Texas
PHIL HARE, Illinois
JOHN A. BOCCIERI, Ohio
MARK H. SCHAUER, Michigan
BETSY MARKEY, Colorado
MICHAEL E. McMAHON, New York
THOMAS S. P. PERRIELLO, Virginia
DINA TITUS, Nevada
HARRY TEAGUE, New Mexico
JOHN GARAMENDI, California
HANK JOHNSON, Georgia
(ii)
?
Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public Buildings, and Emergency
Management
ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of Columbia, Chair
BETSY MARKEY, Colorado MARIO DIAZ-BALART, Florida
MICHAEL H. MICHAUD, Maine TIMOTHY V. JOHNSON, Illinois
HEATH SHULER, North Carolina SAM GRAVES, Missouri
RUSS CARNAHAN, Missouri SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO, West
TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota Virginia
MICHAEL A. ARCURI, New York MARY FALLIN, Oklahoma
CHRISTOPHER P. CARNEY, BRETT GUTHRIE, Kentucky
Pennsylvania, Vice Chair ANH ``JOSEPH'' CAO, Louisiana
DONNA F. EDWARDS, Maryland VACANCY
THOMAS S. P. PERRIELLO, Virginia
HANK JOHNSON, Georgia
JAMES L. OBERSTAR, Minnesota
(Ex Officio)
(iii)
CONTENTS
Page
Summary of Subject Matter........................................ vi
TESTIMONY
Bennett, Cecil, Operator, Clark Foundations...................... 22
Bunn, James, Executive Director, Ward 8 Business Council......... 22
Ebadi, Shapour, Project Executive, St. Elizabeths DHS
Consolidation, General Services Administration................. 4
Hardie, Yanic, President and Cheif Executive Officer, Hardie
Industries..................................................... 22
Lawrence, Lincoln, Vice President, Public Division, Clark
Construction Group, LLC........................................ 4
McKirchy, Kathleen, Director Community Services Agency,
Metropolitan Washington, Council, AFL-CIO...................... 22
Stewart, Gabriel, Laborer, Clark Foundations..................... 22
Thomas, Beverly L., President, Regional Contracting Services, LLC 22
PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS
Norton, Hon. Eleanor Holmes, of the District of Columbia......... 45
Oberstar, James L., of Minnesota................................. 47
PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY WITNESSES
Bennett, Cecil and Stewart, Gabriel.............................. 49
Bunn, James...................................................... 50
Ebadi, Shapour................................................... 53
Hardie, Yanic.................................................... 61
Lawrence, Lincoln................................................ 63
McKirchy, Kathleen............................................... 74
Thomas, Beverly L................................................ 77
SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD
Ebadi, Shapour, Project Executive, St. Elizabeths DHS
Consolidation, General Services Administration, response to
request for information from the Subcommittee.................. 60
Lawrence, Lincoln, Vice President, Public Division, Clark
Construction Group, LLC, response to request for information
from the Subcommittee.......................................... 70
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FIELD HEARING ON THE PROGRESS ON JOBS AND SMALL BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES
AS THE DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY CONSTRUCTION BEGINS IN WARD 8
----------
Wednesday, June 15, 2010
House of Representatives
Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public
Buildings, and Emergency Management
Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure
Washington, DC.
The Subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 5:30 p.m., in
St. Matthews Memorial Baptist Church, 2616 Martin Luther King
Jr., Avenue, S.E., Washington, D.C., Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton
[Chairwoman of the Subcommittee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Norton and Diaz-Balart.
Ms. Norton. The hearing will come to order. The Ranking
Member of our Subcommittee has a privilege I do not have. And
he is exercising that privilege now. Votes were called as I
left the House. And Mr. Diaz-Balart is anxious to be here but
has indicated that he would have no issue with our starting
this hearing. We expect him to come when the vote is over. The
vote will be on for D.C. at some point. Don't give up on him.
That said, welcome to today's hearing entitled ``Progress
on Jobs and Small Business Opportunities as the Department of
Homeland Security Construction in Ward 8.''
We are examining a large and unprecedented Federal
development on the federally owned West Campus of St.
Elizabeths Hospital in the Anacostia neighborhood of Southeast
Washington.
The U.S. Department of Homeland Security headquarters
construction project marked the first time the Federal
Government will locate a Federal agency east of the Anacostia.
And what an historic time it is because the Department of
Homeland Security is not just any agency. It is a signature
agency of the Federal Government.
The St. Elizabeths West Campus has been an unoccupied
eyesore for decades, bringing down Martin Luther King Avenue
and the community around it. The Federal Government has held
onto the West Campus because of the scarcity of land in the
District because there is too little remaining space in the
nation's capital to meet the Federal Government office space
needs and because of the need for consolidation of agencies to
improve their efficiency.
By building on its own land, the St. Elizabeths campus, the
site, brings savings to the Federal Government. And it meets
other requirements, such as the presence of Metro stations and
there are two stations near St. Elizabeths--and other public
transportation as well and accessibility and proximity to other
Federal agencies in the District.
This is the second congressional hearing on the effects of
the Department of Homeland Security headquarters development on
employment and small businesses in the District of Columbia, in
addition to our authorization and appropriation hearings. This
hearing is devoted to the important local implications and
benefits of this large Federal project.
Later this week, as part of the annual congressional
hearing before my Subcommittee on General Services
Administration's Capital Investment and Leasing Program, we
will address some of the macro issues related to the overall
planning and construction of the DHS project.
The Federal Government is crossing the Anacostia River with
one of its most prestigious and important agencies at a time
when wards 7 and 8 are seeking to become destination points,
like many other areas in the District of Columbia.
Although this construction will benefit the entire city and
region, its potential effects on wards 7 and 8, in particular,
are important. At the end of last year, ward 8 had a nearly 30
percent unemployment rate and a poverty rate of 40 percent
according to the Washington Post. I do not intend to bring a
nearly $3.4 billion development to the District without
ensuring that residents near the site benefit in the
competitive search for jobs and small business opportunities.
Last December, at my request, the GSA and Clark
Construction generously constructed an Opportunity Center on
the West Campus of St. Elizabeths. The Opportunity Center
features job search assistance, small business and training
sessions pre-apprenticeship, apprenticeship, and other job
training information, a computer lab, a conference room, and
information kiosk. It's a brand new quite fine facility.
In addition, I introduced and Congress enacted an amendment
that authorized $3 million for apprenticeship and pre-
apprenticeship training programs in the American Recovery and
Reinvestment Act that we call the stimulus bill.
At least one group, the Community Services Agency of the
Metropolitan Washington Council, AFL-CIO, competed successfully
for this funding and has graduated 161 adults, 105 of whom are
District residents.
We also anticipate opportunities for D.C. residents to
participate in the building of the DHS headquarters through an
apprenticeship program we previously negotiated with GSA, which
requires apprenticeship training programs to be part of the
competitive bidding process on all GSA building projects in the
National Capital Region. That is to say, in order to win one of
these lucrative contracts, they get points for training. And
you can bet that we are going to make sure that all who have
those contracts and subcontracts are indeed fulfilling that
requirement.
The GSA has worked closely with me to ensure that the
community and the Federal Government actively collaborate in
the planning and implementation of the DHS headquarters. This
cooperation has been beneficial both to the local community and
to the Federal Government.
The Federal Government needs local communities to buy into
Federal projects so that the two can exist amicably together.
And communities want Federal construction which brings
construction jobs and Federal employees to an area and has
unfailingly spared local, retail, and commercial development as
well.
This hearing continues a process we began shortly after the
Federal Government initially funded the new DHS headquarters
project. In 2006, the community will remember we began by
holding a town meeting where top GSA, U.S. Coast Guard, and
District officials participated in a standing room only meeting
where questions from residents were taken, followed by another
community meeting in 2008.
In September 2007, GSA and I sponsored a small business
forum on opportunities that would become available at the site.
In December 2007, we held our first congressional hearing on
the project.
The GSA has continued to ensure community participation in
countless meetings working with ward 8 residents throughout
this process and getting their feedback in order to assist GSA
in making decisions. Consequently, the project has been well-
received by community residents, who are hopeful that the new
headquarters will help spur retail and other efforts underway
to ensure increased commercial development and, of course, that
there will be jobs for the community from this project.
The Federal Government broke ground on the Coast Guard
building, the first building to go up, earlier this year, a 1.2
million square foot building on the West St. Elizabeths Campus.
The DHS components identified for consolidation at the
headquarters include the Office of the Secretary of the
Department of Homeland Security; the Transportation Security
Administration; Customs and Border Protection; Immigration; and
Customs Enforcement; the Federal Emergency Management Agency,
or FEMA; and the Coast Guard; as well as liaisons for agencies
not being currently located here because there is not enough
room for all of DHS to fit into one site.
GSA also has as its mission maintaining and preserving St.
Elizabeths as a national historic landmark, including leaves of
most of its historic building. Currently GSA is working to
complete a master plan for the consolidation of some of the
most important GSA component agencies to establish its post-9/
11 mission of bringing together agencies that must work jointly
to prevent and respond to terrorist events and natural
disasters in our country.
GSA will relocate Federal tenants currently in leased space
to federally owned space, unlike lease payments. Placing
Federal employees in government-owned space enhances the
vitality of the Federal building fund because lease payments
are directed to the building fun and then recycled to help us
keep Federal buildings going up and in good repair, rather than
as with leasing going to private developers. We could very much
look forward to having the hearing witnesses in this, our first
site hearing. We will have other site hearings as the
construction proceeds.
We want to proceed now with the first of two panels and the
witnesses. We will hear first from Shapour Ebadi, Project
Executive, St. Elizabeths DHS consolidation, the General
Services Administration.
Mr. Ebadi, you may proceed.
TESTIMONY OF SHAPOUR EBADI, PROJECT EXECUTIVE, ST. ELIZABETHS
DHS CONSOLIDATION, GENERAL SERVICES ADMINISTRATION; LINCOLN
LAWRENCE, VICE PRESIDENT, PUBLIC DIVISION, CLARK CONSTRUCTION
GROUP, LLC
Mr. Ebadi. Good evening, Chairwoman Norton and Members of
the Subcommittee. My name is Shapour Ebadi. And I am Deputy
Regional Commissioner in the National Capital Region for GSA's
Public Building Service.
Thank you for inviting me to appear before you to discuss
the progress with the new Department of Homeland Security
headquarters at the St. Elizabeths campus here in ward 8. The
DHS headquarters project at St. Elizabeths is the largest
Federal construction since the Pentagon. It's four and a half
million square feet of workplace plus one and a half million
square feet of parking spaces.
DHS compares to the Pentagon six million square feet.
However, the Pentagon also has more than 60 acres of parking on
surface lots. DHS parking will be a multi-story parking garage
located partially or completely underground.
This project will have tremendous economic benefits for the
neighborhood, the city, the region, and the nation.
Construction will generate more than 30,000 jobs directly. And
there are far more people working on the site and indirectly of
the wages pay cycle through the economy. At the peak of the
construction cycle, there will be 1,000 people working on site
supported by hundreds of small businesses, subcontractors, and
vendors.
Moving DHS into a single federally owned headquarters
campus will save the American taxpayers over $500 million. In
net present value, when compared with continuing to locate the
same components through leased space for the next 30 years.
The preliminary draft environmental impact statement is for
the placement of 750,000 square feet of office space and 775
structure parking spaces on the east campus. This document is
being released for public review and comment this summer. We in
the District office describe it as a major boost to the
District's effort to redevelop East Campus as a mixed-use
community.
We are also working with the District Department of
Transportation, Federal Highway Administration, and National
Clark Services to provide transportation access to the
headquarters campus without unduly burdening Martin Luther
King, Jr. Avenue.
The key to the success of this initiative is obtaining
approval from the National Park Service to utilize a small
portion of the property through Malcolm X Avenue, I-295
interchange. Negotiations are still underway with the National
Park Service.
GSA has made intensive efforts to reach out to the ward 8
and surrounding communities. We have held more than 50 meetings
here and in training labs, with advisory neighborhood
commissions will take local residents' councils and local
business groups. These include six public hearings, the town
hall that you represent, Ms. Norton, Chair, and five all-day
training sessions for small businesses on how to do business
with GSA.
Our general contract is for 1.2 million square feet. Our
Coast guard headquarters now under construction has identified
$224 million in subcontracting opportunities. Forty percent of
this will go to small businesses.
While GSA cannot mandate that Clark select from a specific
geographic location, we have already chosen 25 District-based
small businesses to work on site. Thirteen of these are located
in ward 8. Seventy subcontracts are awarded.
Clark will also establish an Opportunity Center on campus
as a one-stop location for people interested in providing and
procuring contracts or jobs to learn what opportunities are
available and receive guidance from GSA personnel on site. This
operation will continue with new general contractors
participating in our program.
GSA has also contracted with AFL-CIO to provide pre-
apprenticeship training. We held the first graduation ceremony
in December. And we have graduated three more classes since
then.
Clark has established an apprenticeship program for people
interested in careers in the building trades. They have already
employed 34 apprentices. At least 12 are District residents,
even though construction has only been underway for five months
and it's focused on excavation and foundation work.
At present, there are almost 650 employees on site. Four
hundred and fifty-eight are being employed under or to Coast
Guards headquarters, 250 truck drivers. Sixty percent of these
truckers are owned or operated by the District residents.
GSA is going to great lengths to present the character of
this national and historic landmark. They have designed the
campus so that no building will be higher than the center
building. All the buildings that are above ground are located
away from the historic part of the campus, either behind
buildings. They are part of that or cascading down the hill to
the Anacostia River. We will preserve these, and we use 51 of
the 62 buildings on the West Campus.
We and DHS are also working with the community to provide
ongoing access to the campus. In particular, the magnificence
views from the utilization of the theatre facility and the
historic cemetery are the focus of our discussions. DHS has
committed to making these sites available and accessible on a
limited basis.
This campus would also be an environmental short case.
Approximately 80 percent of the roof area of the new building
will be green. It will be a cogeneration facility, which will
provide 25 percent of our energy on site. New buildings will
have natural footprints or their interiors will have an
abundance of natural light. We will use innovative HVAC systems
and materials that are locally produced and/or recycled.
The green roofs along with the extensive landscaping and
underground systems will capture up to a 15-year strong event
before it flows into the Anacostia River. Our goal is to
achieve the go ahead in transportation from the U.S. Green
Buildings Council.
The total cost for the project, including funds both from
GSA and DHS, is $3.4 billion. At present, more than one billion
has been, $1 billion has been, appropriated to both agencies.
Of this total, the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act has
provided $450 million for GSA and $250 million for DHS.
We are currently constructing phase one of the three-phase
project. This first phase consists of 1.3 million square feet
of Coast Guard headquarters, a 2,000-car parking garage,
perimeter security fence, and renovation of 7 historic
buildings.
Occupancy for the Coast Guard will occur in 2013. Phase two
will restore and modernize the center building to house the
Office of the Secretary of DHS and construct the new FEMA
headquarters on the East Campus, starting 2011 and finishing
2014. Phase three will provide new headquarters for TSA, CBP,
and ICE starting in 2013. Occupancy for the entire project is
scheduled for 2016.
In closing, I would like to thank you, Representative
Norton, and your Committee for the strong support you have
provided for this project. Your familiarity with all of its
details is impressive. And your commitment to making it a
success is strong.
Thank you for providing GSA with the opportunity to make
this project possible.
Ms. Norton. Well, thank you for that testimony, Mr. Ebadi.
We will have questions for you after we hear next from Lincoln
Lawrence, Vice President, Public Division, Clark Construction
Group.
Ms. Norton. Mr. Lawrence?
Mr. Lawrence. Thank you, Chairwoman Norton.
My name is Lincoln Lawrence, and I am a Vice President for
the Public Division in the Mid-Atlantic Region for Clark
Construction Group, LLC.
I would like to thank the Subcommittee for the opportunity
to address our progress related to the construction of the U.S.
Coast Guard headquarters building as part of the Homeland
Security Construction on the St. Elizabeths campus.
We were founded in 1906. Clark Construction Group is today
one of the nation's most experienced and respected providers of
construction services, with over 4.5 billion in annual revenue
in major projects throughout the United States.
We perform a full range of construction services throughout
the United States, from small interior renovations to some of
the most visible architectural landmarks in the country.
Projects we are known for in the Washington area include
FedEx Field, the Verizon Center, U.S. Department of
Transportation headquarters, and the Largo Metro station.
The foundation of all of our construction work is a solid
relationship with both public and private clients who have the
confidence to rely time and again on our experience and in-
house expertise to make their vision a reality and a commitment
to the communities where we work.
Today I am pleased to respond to the Subcommittee's request
where Clark addressed the progression of contracting and job
opportunities associated with the U.S. Coast Guard headquarters
building on the St. Elizabeths campus.
We are pleased that the U.S. General Services
Administration selected Clark to lead the design and
construction of the Coast Guard headquarters, a 1.2 million
square foot facility that will feature an 11-story office
building for 3,800 employees, a separate central utility plat
in 2 7-story parking garages to be constructed on the West
Campus of the former St. Elizabeths Hospital site here in the
city's Anacostia neighborhood. This project is the first phase
of the Department of Homeland Security's consolidation and
relocation to Southeast Washington, DC.
The U.S. Coast Guard headquarters project was originally
planned for LEED certification. However, at our previous
hearing in October before this Subcommittee, we committed to
work with the GSA to seek to raise that rating to a LEED gold
certification. And those efforts are on the way.
In October 2009 before this Subcommittee, let me mention
two efforts to encourage and expand employment opportunities in
the community. First, Clark placed an employment opportunity
trailer at the project site. This trailer is the Opportunity
Center. The Opportunity Center trailer, run by GSA, is a key
resource to the community providing real-time workforce
availability on site, not just for Clark but all the
subcontractors as well.
Second, Clark provides GSA with timely procurement
schedules such that any business, including those here in ward
8, can see what work is coming and decide if they want an
opportunity to participate in that work.
Clark and their major subcontractors today have registered
apprenticeship programs and keep in contact with Community
Services Agency, who runs a pre-apprenticeship program that
trains prospective employees from ward 8 on the skills needed
to quality for an apprenticeship job.
Just last Thursday, Clark hosted a current class in the
tour of the Coast Guard job site and discussed upcoming
opportunities and the process to apply for those jobs.
Since beginning site preparation work in February, the
major item of work has been earthwork. To date, we have moved
40 percent of the approximately 1.3 million cubic yards of
earth to be excavated. While the amount of dirt and rock
removed daily varies, on an average day, approximately 250
trucks remove dirt and rock from the site and as many as 300
trucks may operate on any given day.
Of these trucks, more than 60 percent are either owned by
District operators or subcontracted by District companies. The
Opportunity Center was used to introduce interested truckers
and businesses to the earthwork subcontractor, resulting in
significant local participation in the earthwork.
Since the start of this project through the beginning of
June, we have created a total of 23 new hires: 8 union and 15
non-union. Thirteen of the non-union individuals were hired
through the Opportunity Center. Soon the next major work
project starting at the site will be concrete work, which will
continue through the Fall of 2011.
As with all construction efforts, concrete work will take
some time before the effort significantly rams up. This leads
to a discussion of how jobs are filled for this project.
At this early stage of the project, we have approximately
200 workers on site. To date, 34 apprentices have worked on
this project. Journeyman and apprenticeship jobs are filled in
a number of ways. Union jobs are filled through the various
trade unions' halls. Non-union jobs have been filled through
the Opportunity Center and from employees moving to this job
after completing work on all the projects.
The key here is using the Opportunity Center trailer as a
resource for employment opportunities and following up with the
various trades to make them aware of this resource.
I want to make clear that the number of jobs in
subcontracting opportunities are not unlimited. However, the
Opportunity Center trailer is a vehicle for both subcontractors
and job seekers to work with Clark and our subcontractors on
the U.S. Coast Guard project.
On behalf of Clark Construction Group, I want to thank you
for the opportunity to testify today. And I am happy to answer
any questions you may have. We also have a representative from
two of our major subcontractors, John J. Kingman and Diane
Electric Corporation. and they are available to respond to your
questions and any specific questions related to their trade.
Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Mr. Lawrence.
Your testimony, the testimony of both you, Mr. Lawrence,
and Mr. Ebadi, is important because if we have the announcement
of a construction project, people come out of the woodwork,
especially in the period of the great recession, saying they
want a job.
Now, I want to ask you about the phases of hiring and
business opportunities. I have been calling this the pre-hiring
stage because what the public usually regards as construction
work, people on the ground digging and all the rest of that, is
yet to occur. What precisely is occurring on this site now?
Mr. Lawrence. Currently we're doing the earthwork. We are
actively progressing in the work. We are probably about 40
percent complete with the earthwork.
Ms. Norton. And the ``earthwork'' means hauling away earth
so that you begin working in the hold; that is, to the new
building?
Mr. Lawrence. Right. Another way to look at it is
excavation of the dirt that is there. We are moving it from
site.
Ms. Norton. Now, to do that work, there is basically a
crane and some drivers?
Mr. Lawrence. There are a number of what we call earth-
moving equipment, cranes. And you see a lot of dump trucks
coming to take the dirt away.
Ms. Norton. Now, Mr. Ebadi, is this what you meant when you
talked about 24/7? Tell me about how that operation works.
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am. As Lincoln said, we are in the
excavation and hauling phase at this point. We are moving 1.3
million cubic yards of dirt from the site. And right now we are
moving--we have 45 percent into our 1.3 million cubic yards.
And that's it, great achievement in our schedule and our----
Ms. Norton. That's only because you are nonstop hauling?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct.
Ms. Norton. Twenty-four hours a day they are loaded and
moved?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct. And that's--we're doing this so they
can get to our next phase, which will as we pour concrete.
Actually, as they coincidentally poured our first concrete
today, this morning, for our----
Ms. Norton. What kind of workers pour concrete?
Mr. Ebadi. Basically, we will utilize rebar and contractors
and concrete finishers, concrete placers, and forklift
contractors. And that just for the record, Chairwoman, our
concrete provider for this project is a D.C. contractor. So we
actually are----
Ms. Norton. Could you submit the name of that contractor to
the Committee within 30 days?
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Lawrence. If I could just add to that? Also it's a
District company that is also going to be furnishing and
installing the reinforcing steel that goes in the concrete.
Ms. Norton. A District-based company?
Mr. Lawrence. District.
Ms. Norton. Is that a small business?
Mr. Lawrence. A small business.
Ms. Norton. Will be providing the?
Mr. Lawrence. Furnishing the reinforcing steel. That is
what goes inside the concrete. They will be furnishing and
installing that. And we can provide that along with the
concrete company in the next 30 days.
Ms. Norton. Now, do I understand--I'm reading from Mr.
Lawrence's testimony--250 trucks to remove dirt and rock from
the site. So that is starting today?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct.
Mr. Lawrence. Correct.
Ms. Norton. And more than 60 percent are either owned by
District operators or subcontracted by District companies. What
is that?
Mr. Lawrence. Correct.
Ms. Norton. What is that?
Mr. Lawrence. They are either District owners of the
trucking company or in some cases a District company has
subcontracted out to a number of trucks. So the number of
trucks that the District company has subcontracted out plus the
independent truckers to get a makeup of around 60 percent of
all of the trucks being removing dirt at the site.
Mr. Ebadi. In other words, this is exactly part of our
goal. In achieving everything on this project, we are going to
maximize about subcontracting plan and employment with the
District residents, even though if there is a truck driving
phase, we will have truck driver owner/operators that aren't
mainly District contractors or District residents. We're going
to the other activities, such as demolition.
And, just to let the Chairman know, we have three projects
other than procurement as we speak. Once these procurements
come to completion as we award the project, there will be a new
wave of actually abatement contractors, demolition contractors,
and small businesses that will be part of this procurement.
So each phase will have a significant amount of D.C. and
surrounding communities' participation.
Ms. Norton. Mr. Ebadi, this is a very important point.
Usually when people think of a construction job, they think of
something that goes on for a couple of years, it's up and
running.
This could provide jobs, construction jobs, for upwards of
almost ten years. This will mean 14,000 Federal employees who
have to come to work every day in this building. We will, of
course, get to the effect that could conceivably have on ward 8
later.
How were you able to get such a high percentage of
District-owned truck operators? What did you do to reach out to
get this percentage? And you are going to supply the names
within 30 days?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct. What we basically have done is, even
though--as a Federal project, geographical locations in our
procurement is not mandated. However, every time we award a
contract, either to Clark or to anybody else, basically Bonnie
Echoles, our lead contracting officer, and myself and our other
team members, one thing we emphasize to all of these
contractors is basically in a real sense, understand where you
are and understand what this project is about.
This project is about basically for--has it not been for
the recovery funds, this project would have never happened.
So we will sit down with these contractors. And basically
we will tell them they have to be sensitive to District
contractors in ward 8/ward 7 so they may award residents as the
opportunity comes about.
Mr. Lawrence. If I could just add to that? Clark and our
contractors are sensitive to the need to use District and ward
8 residents. And one of the specific things we did shortly
after awarding the subcontractor, a subcontractor of earthwork,
we had an opportunity at the Opportunity Center, where we
invited a number of small businesses, mostly from ward 8 and
other District wards, who had competed for the work but were
not successful in being the lowest responsible subcontractor.
But we knew they had a lot of companies that had made
arrangements with different truckers. So we got all of those
companies to come and meet the low successful bidder. And they
were able to form a relationship. And that is part of how a lot
of these District companies are participating in the Coast
Guard.
Ms. Norton. Now, let's get to the qualifications for jobs.
I was at the site. And I saw a homeless man, very well-spoken
man, who was working on the site. And he told me a story that
needs to be told.
There are various ways to apply for a job. When people
hear of jobs here, we have our apprentice programs, who are, of
course, going to funnel people for consideration.
Clark, as I understand it, went into the neighborhood. Now,
I talked with this young man, who was living in a homeless
shelter. And he told me that of the 20 or so people, that he
knew of only one who had been hired.
Shapour, why? In that first round of people that simply
came off the streets, why was this young man the only one
hired?
Mr. Ebadi. The main reason, Congresswoman, was,
unfortunately, most of them failed the drug test. And so,
consequently, we were able to hire a very limited amount of the
interviewers.
And since then we have actually gotten together with some
of the workforce groups and our contracting officers. Basically
we're in the process of developing basically a community of
workforce groups so they can partner with us in the Opportunity
Center.
So there will be some screening and pre-apprenticeship
programs and also training before we go into the application
process. This way we won't have the came scenario as these
failures that we faced.
Ms. Norton. Now, this is a Federal project. So it is
governed by Federal law, not just by your own regulations. What
does Federal law require with respect to documentation of
citizenship?
Mr. Ebadi. We require what we call basically permanent
residency or work permit in the United States. And also we make
sure if there are any background issues, we will take that case
by case. We have basically said----
Ms. Norton. Well, let me ask you to stop right there.
Suppose a person doesn't have an entirely clean record. Under
what circumstances could such a person work on a Federal site?
I know you are using the same procedures here that you must use
nationwide. What kind of a record can a person have and still
get hired?
Mr. Ebadi. There is no felony and the felony is not
basically three years or earlier. They have made the basic----
Ms. Norton. So even felonies if they are not recent
felonies?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct.
Ms. Norton. OK. At least it allows you to be considered for
a job?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct.
Ms. Norton. On a Federal site in this country?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct. We have basically established basically
a mutual agreement with DHS security folks to basically take,
even in a worst-case scenario, where we need to evaluate the
situation. We just want--there will be no basically umbrella
rejection.
Ms. Norton. Blanket rejection.
Mr. Ebadi. Blanket rejection of the issues. Everyone will
be considered on a case-by-case basis.
Ms. Norton. Now, I was able to get the money out of the
Congress for this project. I had gotten the first hundred
million dollars out of them. The way in which I was able to get
the money for this project was through the American Recovery
Act. That act aims, first and foremost, to create jobs as well
as small business opportunities. But it is an anti-recession
statute.
And my Subcommittee and the full Committee have been having
hearings, in which we track the number of jobs and small
business opportunities. Can you tell me how many jobs and small
business opportunities have been provided to date?
Mr. Lawrence. To date roughly 70 subcontractors and
suppliers, who either have or will be participating in a multi-
tier basis on the project. Sixty-one of those 70 subcontractors
and suppliers are small businesses. Of those 61, 25 are from
the District and 13 from ward 8.
Ms. Norton. What kind of work have small businesses been
doing on this project at this time? And I would like the names
of those small businesses in 30 days as well.
Mr. Lawrence. Sure, not a problem. I would say a number of
things. The major item is the site utilities work. That work
actually started probably three weeks or so ago. And even
though that company, small business company, the contractor is
in excess of $2 million, they have only 7 people on the
project. And I mention that because one of those seven actually
came from the Opportunity Center, which I thought you might
want to know.
Other than that, for the earthwork and site demolition
work, one of the joint venture partners or earthwork
subcontractor is a small business as well as approximately nine
of the major truckers that are working with a small or joint
venture, earthworks, are small businesses.
The other subcontractors or small businesses that have
signed up actually have not started work as of yet, talking
like for the exterior grazing work, for the mechanical, the
electrical work. Those small contractors, small business
contractors, that will be working with those subs have not
actually started work yet on the project.
But those, the 70 I mentioned, are those that have
committed or have a letter of intent to do work on the project.
Ms. Norton. Yes, Mr. Ebadi?
Mr. Ebadi. Sorry. Just to elaborate on what Mr. Lawrence is
saying, this is Clark's portion. Now, we have other projects
that basically are not Clark's-related. If we know we are
monitoring our subcontracting plan on a weekly basis in our
progress meetings, we would have--basically so we just
completed our demolition abatement contract for the warehouses.
That was a small business, 8(a)-certified contractor. And,
actually, they posted an 8(a) competitive procurement the night
before last night for abatement and demolition of the seven
historic projects that I mentioned in my testimony.
So in the--that Clark is in maintaining their obligation to
the subcontracting plan and small business participation, we at
GSA also have our own small, set-aside contracts.
Ms. Norton. This is very important to understand. Clark has
goals for small businesses, and so does GSA. Some of the small
business is not related to the major contract. And that is why
GSA has it.
Much of it is--and that's why Mr. Lawrence has it, and the
government does allow goals and expects goals and expects goals
to be met. This is an important distinction. There are two
sources for small businesses.
Now, Mr. Lawrence, let me tell you something that we're not
seeing here, I hate to say, on this project. Sophisticated
small businesses have said that there are times--again, this is
not related to Clark, and I am obviously going to get
information on Clark with respect to this allegation--that
small businesses are sometimes taken on pursuant to goals and
then the major contractor does the work or small business, in
fact, now has an opportunity, managing opportunity, for
training. It is simply used as appointment for the goals.
How would you respond to that complaint, which I have heard
widely enough to have to ask you not about your company but
about what you are going to do to make sure these small
businesses who qualify competitively, which means they must
know how to work, in fact, can work alongside the contractor
and, in effect, participate in a higher level of training than
might have been available to them before?
Mr. Lawrence. You are correct. I have heard that. A lot of
people have heard that before. That is now how Clark operates.
We have a smaller business group in our company. We also have a
strategic partnership program and just completed a fourth year
on this and may need to come back to what you talked about
about developing these small businesses, teaching them, and
from things that they would not otherwise be exposed to and not
have the opportunity to work with large businesses.
It is a process that we try to do, in fact, on the Coast
Guard project, although we have been contacted by more than 250
such small businesses. What we do is we get their capabilities.
We make sure that for the specific trade that we are dealing
with, we contract with the large businesses but not as a
passthrough. It is made clear that Clark is not into that. And
we have too much of a relationship with a number of people in
the community whom we have helped and help us to develop our
strategic partnership program to avoid and minimize things like
that.
Ms. Norton. Well, Mr. Lawrence, so far you have certainly
met our expectations. I raised it because apparently it is
fairly widespread among subcontractors.
At the same time, I put the community on notice that this
is a Federal project, and this is not just any Federal project.
What I am going to say goes to all Federal projects. GSA is
held to a very high-quality standard.
Now, if someone competes--and the 8(a), the small
businesses do compete, those who are 8(a) compete among
themselves--if at any time a small business is not meeting the
quality goals the Federal Government puts on Clark, Clark had
better get rid of that small business. Mr. Ebadi had better be
on notice here. That is how a Federal project works. That is
why the competition initially is so important.
And I assume that given the extraordinary competition for
this historic construction, that once you have landed a
subcontractor, you must be pretty good to begin with. So you
begin with a presumption that you are good. And it is up to
Clark to help go the rest of the way.
And if something happens, it is Clark whom we are going to
hold responsible. So it would reflect poorly on Clark and, for
that matter, poorly on Mr. Ebadi--I'm sorry--on GSA, Mr. Ebadi,
not on you personally, sir.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Norton. It would reflect poorly on GSA and poorly on
Clark and their competition if after, in fact, recruiting
subcontractors, they just had to toss them away or if the
Congresswoman heard complaints that they had won but they are
not doing anything.
Now, we are fortunate, indeed, that our Ranking Member, who
was voting on the House floor, has come. And he is my good
friend. He wanted to be sure to come here. And I am going to
interrupt my own questions now to ask Mr. Diaz-Balart if he has
any opening statement.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you, Madam Chairwoman. Let me first
ask you forgiveness for being late. You did mention why I was
not able to be here.
Ms. Norton. I will forgive you for voting.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. That's right. That's right.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Yes. You know, she's never subtle and
never stops working----
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. --as you have just seen right now. Let me
just very briefly again thank you for having this hearing. I
know that it is unusual in this time of bickering and of
physical tease and of partisanship to have two Members who work
closely together, who tend to agree on a lot of issues. And
it's I think, due in great part, to the leadership of my
Chairwoman. Thank you for having this hearing here.
And, just very briefly, I had this whole spiel, but you
already started, but I would be remiss if I didn't mention once
again your leadership, Madam Chairwoman, in particular, in
working so hard to make sure that the taxpayer doesn't continue
to waste money with leasing properties whenever we can own
because it saves. And this is a good example of one of the
things that we are talking about today about this facility, St.
Elizabeths, that we could save potentially hundreds of millions
of dollars to the taxpayer. And also the Chairwoman has also
been a strong advocate obviously to making sure that facilities
stay here in the District.
She has been steadfast. She has been effective. To me it is
a privilege to work with her, issues that she cares so deeply
and shows great leadership. So I had a statement that there is
ample opportunity for that, Madam Chairwoman.
I do want to, again, since the whole voting thing got
extended--I may have to leave earlier than, unfortunately. But
no, I mean, we're done there, but everything else that I had
planned for after that has now been postponed. So I am not
quite sure. Depending on how long your hearing is--obviously
it's of great interest. If I leave early, it is not because I
am not interested. Plus, as you all know, I will hear it
anyways.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. And I know that none of you have any
doubts anyways.
Thank you all. Thank you all for being here. Thank the
witnesses. And, more importantly, I want to thank the
Chairwoman not only for this hearing but for her steadfast
leadership and for standing up for the people that she
represents so well. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Diaz-Balart. You haven't heard
the questions. So I am inclined to ask you, do you want to ask
any questions now?
Mr. Diaz-Balart. No, not at this moment.
Ms. Norton. All right.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you, Madam Chair.
Ms. Norton. And perhaps wait for the next panel.
Now, I was interested to hear that, even in this so-called
pre-hiring season, when we basically are hauling away dirt and
rock, that in your testimony, Mr. Lawrence, you indicated 34
apprentices have worked on the St. Elizabeths project. What
have these apprentices been doing in this kind of pre-big
hiring season period?
Mr. Lawrence. Well, actually, 17 of those apprentices were
with our electrical subcontractor. They had some site
electrical utility work to do earlier in the project. And that
was where 17 of those participated.
I am also listing the unskilled laborers that we have hired
from the Opportunity Center as part of their apprenticeship
program. Other than that, the mechanical contractor had one
apprentice on the project. And our supportive excavation work
had four. So that was sort of how we came up to the 34 that
participated so far.
We estimated in our proposal that we anticipated
approximately 375 apprentices through all trades throughout the
project for the 3 years.
Ms. Norton. Now, when does the hiring season for this
project begin in earnest?
Mr. Lawrence. Well, as Mr. Ebadi mentioned, we are just
starting with the concrete work. And I anticipate later----
Ms. Norton. Does that mean we're still hauling away----
Mr. Lawrence. Oh, no. The earthwork is approximately 40
percent complete. I anticipate the continuous hauling, with
night shifts included, will continue through August-September.
And I would say about September-October, we will probably be
about 80 percent complete with removing the dirt from the site.
The remaining 20 percent would be at a slower pace. And
will continue through into the first quarter of next year
because, even though we have finished for the main building,
there are two garages there, which would be better at a slower
pace.
Ms. Norton. Now, Mr. Ebadi, I indicated to GSA that,
particularly in light of the fact that this is a stimulus
project, I didn't understand sequencing the building and the
use. They're not particularly related. Are we going to be
hiring people on the reuse work of the historic buildings at
the same time that we are working on construction? And if so,
when does that begin?
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am. As I mentioned before, Clark--let me
not restrict it to Clark. By the next six months, Clark will
have only a small piece of this project. So we are actually
moving, shifting towards modernization and actually
infrastructure work and most of the abatement and demolition
project. Those are the ones actually that are done heavily that
concentrate on small businesses and local workforce because of
the nature of the work.
Typically when you get into modernization and interior
work, that is where basically you will utilize a lot of man-
hours and----
Ms. Norton. What kind of work do you do in that interior
work?
Mr. Ebadi. Everything from demolition, painting, basically
tile work, glazing, drywall, patching, masonry, site work,
landscaping, excavation, utility duct banks, and so on. These
are heavily labor-intensive phases.
As Mr. Lawrence mentioned, we are actually 40 percent into
our excavation, but we have set forth a construction sequence
so we can start carpentry early while the other excavation in
the home is going on at the same time. So we will actually be
moving aggressively on the schedule so we can produce better,
also have a better outlay for our committed employment and
business opportunities for this project.
Ms. Norton. Well, this proceeding as if this were indeed an
organic process, rather than a sequential one, is actually very
intelligent to save us taxpayers' fund, to avoid the times of
delays in completion of a project. That would be very important
here.
You describe, Mr. Ebadi. Suppose there are here today small
businesses who would like to become 8(a) businesses. How can
they become 8(a) businesses?
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am. And we have basically 8(a) training
on parts of the small business with GSA every other week in our
Opportunity Center and in response at the Small Business Office
in GSA National Capital Region. They come through the
Opportunity Center.
LaJuan Stevens and her team basically send out information
so these folks can basically get them through the GSA process
and be part of our future workforce in the subcontracting
community.
Ms. Norton. So let me see how this happens. So I want to be
a small business. I understand you are having this session this
week. You have these sessions every other week?
Mr. Ebadi. Every other week.
Ms. Norton. OK. I come to your session. At the end of that
session, what happens, this session of 8(a) session? Am I
qualified as an 8(a) business or not?
Mr. Ebadi. 8(a) qualification is basically in being
certified by the Small Business Administration. However, what
is ironic, Congresswoman, most of the 8(a)'s that we deal with
are receiving training sessions.
Very few of them know how to deal with GSA set-aside
programs and also general contractors. We basically walk them
through our subcontracting opportunities. And at the end of the
day, they are very informed about the project, phasing
different phases of the project, and the potential general
contractor and subcontracting opportunities out there.
And we basically walk them through sometimes how to--what
are the methods in terms of getting bonds and basically
introduction to different people in Small Business
Administration and also how to actually even fill out the bid
form.
Ms. Norton. So how do they become 8(a)-certified? I still
don't understand that. So they go through this. It's important
to learn this. How do you get on the dotted line certified you
are 8(a)?
Mr. Ebadi. 8(a) certification is done by the Small Business
Administration.
Ms. Norton. So I know who it is supposed to be done by. So
what do they come to you for?
Mr. Ebadi. They come to us basically to understand how
GSA's set-aside program works.
Ms. Norton. Then how does the Small Business Administration
get involved in these people who have come through your
workshop?
Mr. Ebadi. Sure. Once we basically have these folks under
trained in our workshop, once an opportunity comes up for an
8(a) project, our contracting officer will send a letter to the
Small Business Administration to make sure these folks are
certified. And they will basically get into negotiations with
that firm.
Ms. Norton. So do they take your training and march over to
the Small Business Administration and say, ``Certify me''?
Mr. Ebadi. They are already certified before they come to--
they are already an 8(a)-certified contractor before they come
to our----
Ms. Norton. So my question, Mr. Ebadi, is, how does a small
business get 8(a)-certified? And what does your training
workshop do to help them get 8(a)-certified?
Mr. Ebadi. We basically show them the procedures on how to
become and 8(a) and also how to receive 8(a) certification
through the Small Business Administration.
Ms. Norton. I still don't know how. OK. I receive the
training. Do I take testing? What do I do to----
Mr. Ebadi. No. The Small Business Administration basically
hands out----
Ms. Norton. Do you pass on some kind of recommendation to
the SBA?
Mr. Ebadi. We don't have any recommendations, but they can
actually put that on their resume that they have been through
the GSA workshops.
Ms. Norton. And that will assist them in getting 8(a)
certification?
Mr. Ebadi. Correct.
Ms. Norton. How many people have gotten 8(a) certifications
through your workshops?
Mr. Ebadi. We will get you the information.
Ms. Norton. I need that information: names and serial
numbers.
Mr. Ebadi. Yes.
Ms. Norton. Now, in your testimony, Mr. Ebadi, you say that
the small business goal for the Coast Guard headquarters--
that's the first building going up. It's $225 million. How is
that amount derived?
Mr. Lawrence. In our proposal to GSA, we have estimated the
amount to be contracted. And that is how that overall----
Ms. Norton. Say what? I'm sorry?
Mr. Lawrence. In our proposal to GSA last July, one of the
requirements in submitting a subcontracting plan was to
estimate the amount----
Ms. Norton. I see.
Mr. Lawrence. --of dollars to be subcontracted.
Ms. Norton. Well, this is what I want. You're saying that
as part of competing for the project with a lot of people
competing, you had to indicate how much you would devote of
your work to small businesses.
Mr. Lawrence. To small business.
Ms. Norton. And in competition with others who came up with
various amounts, presumably less than yours, that was something
that helped you get the contract?
Mr. Lawrence. Correct.
Ms. Norton. OK. Well, that's why you are going to be on
accounting.
Now, when does GSA expect the first award on that grand
center building that is going to be I take it the Secretary's--
--
Mr. Ebadi. It is part of our phase two 8(a) project, which
is in design as we speak. And it is supposed to help us out in
the procurement in November and December of this year.
Ms. Norton. Now, there are 15 different--out of the
stimulus from our Subcommittee was not only the DHS project but
15 other projects going on right here in the District of
Columbia upgrading Federal properties. In what ways since those
are located right here are residents to be involved or are
involved in that work?
I'm not stopping with DHS, and I know Clark is not
necessarily the contractor there. But the work that is being
done and Mr. Diaz-Balart stated is to be done in all 50 states,
all the territories, and the District of Columbia because this
is the nation's capital and because we are talking about fixing
Federal properties, there is perhaps a disproportion of those
properties in the nation's capital. So how are you handling the
small business and the jobs for those 15?
Mr. Ebadi. I would have to defer that question to our
recovery team, but basically the procurement----
Ms. Norton. I know in one sense it is an unfair question
because you are the Department of Homeland Security man, but
whatever you know about it I would like to know about it.
Mr. Ebadi. Sure. In general, the procurement mechanism and
guidelines are the same, how we basically have competition and
procurement for those projects that is anything from 25
million-plus, basically we'll have a PLA language in the
procurement. And also there will be a good portion of small
business focus and why.
Ms. Norton. Now, Mr. Ebadi, one of the great and important
things that this project will do and that, to your credit, GSA
has been working to assure is to help restore Martin Luther
King Avenue as a great thoroughfare.
Now, in every building that we construct, we the Federal
Government, there are some amenities. If, however, all of the
amenities go to things, dry cleaners, the kinds of things that
people expect to do during work hours or going to work, coming
to work, if those amenities are all located behind the wall--I
understand it is an historic wall. I am not going to take down
the wall.
But if those amenities are all provided within the
building, then Martin Luther King Avenue will look the same way
it looks today. What are you doing to make sure that amenities
are offered on the outside the same way they are offered on K
street in the District of Columbia?
Mr. Ebadi. Actually, ma'am, we are working very closely
with the District business development teams. And that is why
our East Campus master plan actually is critical to be an
anchor for private businesses and private developers to be
alongside the North Martin Luther King Avenue because, even
though 14,000 employees will be on this campus, Federal
employees will--the average of Federal employees, that will eat
and utilize the internal employees varies, but they will be--it
may just lead to outside amenities.
So in our discussions in the District, we are actually
working through to help them out on their FEMA headquarters so
we can upgrade their infrastructure to bring private developers
to build the amenities in commercial development.
Ms. Norton. This is certainly an important and actual part
of what you are doing. I appreciate that you are working with
the prospectus. We are going to require that this be done so
that there be no doubt that it will be in writing. It is not
that we don't trust you. It is because we don't know who will
be there during what may be ten years of construction. We have
no issues with GSA at this time I am pleased to say.
I understand that GSA wants $10 million in this project to
go to pedestrian tunnels. Why should we spend that money on
pedestrian tunnels? What is wrong with DHS employees they can't
cross the street if they have got to get over to the FEMA
building?
Mr. Ebadi. It is mainly, actually, to help more both the
transportation management plan, also the security requirements.
Basically we want to use the full ratio for parking space in
this campus. And our goal is with parking with DHS basically
once an employee walks in through a security entrance, they
don't have to go back and forth and utilize other means of
transportation or driving across a parking lot----
Ms. Norton. Mr. Ebadi, as long as you have that thing on
you that says that you are an employee, you are not going to
have to worry about going into the entrance on the other side
of the street.
Mr. Ebadi. There are 22 entrances. And each one of them
probably will have their own----
Ms. Norton. They're not going to have their own because
they also come under our jurisdiction. And if they are all with
the Department of Homeland Security, then they do Department of
Homeland Security. And if somebody wants to get in there one
way or the other, they are not going to be able to find some
easier way to get into the Department of Homeland Security than
other ways.
We are dealing with, as you know, Mr. Ebadi--this, of
course, has nothing to do with you but with the fact that
differential standards for buildings resulted in the GAO being
able to get bomb-making materials into a building and go in the
restroom and put them together. That is how much security we
have when we have each agency trying to decide.
This is not for us to decide here. If they are going to
have high-level security--and they should--they are not going
to have--each agency deciding different securities. And if they
don't, then why was your picture on your chest? Could you not
cross the street to go to another building?
Mr. Ebadi. Actually, what I think by different agencies,
actually, they believe in one DHS, which facilitates one
security. But there are conformants within DHS that requires
different classification of security clearances.
Ms. Norton. And if you go through the tunnel, you wouldn't
have any problem?
Mr. Ebadi. It depends on----
Ms. Norton. And this tunnel is going to lead to every
single place that you are going to want to go to in the DHS?
You all are going to have to make out. I am not going to the
appropriators and saying I need $10 million to help these
people get across the street.
I am going to have to justify every penny. You are not the
one who has mandated. It is probably coming from DHS. But you
are the one who builds it. You would be performing a miracle if
you bring it within budget.
And I don't know why we need a tunnel underground for the
employees. And I also think that that carries the implication
of it being closeted from the community. So I don't like the
sound of it. I don't think there's a security reason for it.
It is true that in the capital, we have tunnels built long
ago, when the cost of such tunnels was not very steep. You
could make the case that you want--I suggest you don't, but you
could make that case that you wanted to protect people from the
elements, to which I would say that is not what $10 million of
Federal money should go to.
So I have not heard the case. And I know this is not your
job, Mr. Ebadi.
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. But you can go back to your friends at the
Department of Homeland Security to say that until I hear a
better reason to dig a tunnel adding $10 million to this
construction, until I hear a better reason than I have heard,
that is one cost saving that the administration will get.
The administration now is seeking all kinds of stretches in
the budget. They have been generous to this project. But if the
President were to call me in and say, ``I don't know. Why do
they need this $10 million?`` I would be tongue-tied. And I
have to be able to articulate such expenditures. And I
understand that they are of some comfort to employees.
So far as I can understand, one agency that is going to be
on the other side of the street, one agency. So there is only
going to be one agency on the other side of the street. I don't
know why you would have a big rush of people that would require
so much security or so much comfort that they couldn't just
cross the street since the majority of your agency is going to
be right here on the West Campus.
So put them on notice that we are already saying $10
million.
I have only one more question that has to do with
monitoring. Would you describe for the record what kind of
monitoring of hiring and small business is being done on this
property?
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am. Basically there's two steps of
monitoring. One is basically a contractual requirement. That
is, as Mr. Lawrence said, every proposal that comes to us on a
competitive procurement process, it will state they're a small
business----
Ms. Norton. Say it again. I'm sorry. I was distracted. I
should----
Mr. Ebadi. Sure. There are basically two steps of
monitoring the small business opportunities. One is basically a
contractual requirement. And when proposals come in, as Mr.
Lincoln Lawrence mentioned, we looked at the proposed small
business, basically, percentages. And then we monitor that
throughout the project. Ms. Bonnie Echoles has been here with
the team. And our construction agents basically have constant
monitoring of payrolls and also small businesses----
Ms. Norton. Well, you described what you're doing to report
to the company.
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am. The other thing is actually beside
the procurement on this project, we also report to your office,
ma'am. And we are----
Ms. Norton. It is really me and Mr. Diaz-Balart. We report
to the Subcommittee----
Mr. Ebadi. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. --on the number of jobs, the number of small
businesses, et cetera.
Mr. Ebadi. Every other week we report to the Subcommittee
on both opportunities, the jobs, and the subcontracting, both
awarded and opportunities throughout this, to the Subcommittee.
Ms. Norton. I lay that out because I really do not intend
to be an answering service for people calling, ``I need a new
job, Eleanor.'' You know, I need the record here.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. You get that as well? You get that as
well?
Ms. Norton. Yes. But, you know, we are not expected to get
jobs for people. I am only equipped to make sure that the
contractors and the subcontractors are fulfilling their goals.
So I just need to leave the documentation so that people will
know it is happening or not happening.
Mr. Diaz-Balart, do you have any questions?
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Ms. Norton, actually, I did, but you kind
of went through them already. And, you know, it shouldn't
surprise anybody you know more about this project than anybody
in the country.
I want to just add to your statement about the saving of
those $10 million. It would seem to me that we should probably
wait until the thing is built. And then if there is this huge
need where you have hundreds of people that are constantly
crossing the street and that there is this huge need, then I
think we all would be willing to look at it favorably. But I
think that is before the $10 million is established, we should
probably first see what the need is, what the real need is, if
there is a security issue.
So I once again agree with what I think is your very wise
statement about let's just try to save the $10 million if we
can. And then we will see in the future if there is any there.
We obviously ought to be--nobody wants for there to be any
risk, but let's see if we can slow that part out of it.
So, again, once again we speak with one voice on that.
Thank you, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. Well, I appreciate what you just said about it,
Mr. Diaz-Balart. It is a security issue. This is one of the
most secure facilities in the nation's capital, but Mr. Ebadi
was talking about different strokes for different folks,
different security for different parts of this. That is the
opposite of a security issue.
But he, of course, is not the one who has come forward with
this plan. So we will wait until the next hearing that we have
on the Hill. In fact, we are having a hearing Thursday on the
Hill. So we will put this question to those from headquarters
who come to testify.
Mr. Lawrence and Mr. Ebadi, we not only thank you for your
testimony. We note that you are providing me with names and the
rest. Your figures reflect that you, in fact, are on the road
to meeting the goals. They do reflect more than a good faith
effort. We need to lay it out so people could see it. And we
need it to be known that this is the first of a number of
hearings like that.
We are going to be as transparent as we can about those
projects so there won't be questions and doubts in the
community. The fact is that there is a long and sorry history
of failure to employ people in the District of Columbia. And
that is a nationwide problem for people of color.
The only way to break through it is to lay it out on the
table and so people see for themselves that is exactly what you
have done here. Today I have no quarrel with what you have
stated. I can only state keep it up, gentlemen. Thank you very
much.
We go now to our final panel. And I am going to ask James
Bunn, Beverly Thomas, Kathleen McKirchy, Cecil Bennett, Gabriel
Stewart, and Yanic Hardie to take your seats. And, in that
order, I will ask you to summarize your testimony. I am just
going to go right down the line here, beginning with James
Bunn, the Executive Director of the Ward 8 Business Council.
Mr. Bunn?
TESTIMONY OF JAMES BUNN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, WARD 8 BUSINESS
COUNCIL; BEVERLY L. THOMAS, PRESIDENT, REGIONAL CONTRACTING
SERVICES, LLC; KATHLEEN McKIRCHY, DIRECTOR COMMUNITY SERVICES
AGENCY, METROPOLITAN WASHINGTON, COUNCIL, AFL-CIO; CECIL
BENNETT, OPERATOR, CLARK FOUNDATIONS; GABRIEL STEWART, LABORER,
CLARK FOUNDATIONS; AND YANIC HARDIE, PRESIDENT, CEO, HARDIE
INDUSTRIES
Mr. Bunn. Good evening. I want to thank you, Congresswoman
Eleanor Holmes Norton, the public, and distinguished guests. My
name is James Bunn. I am the Executive Director of the Ward 8
Business Council.
I am delighted to be here tonight to testify before the
Subcommittee on Economic Development, Public Buildings, and
Emergency Management of the process on jobs and small business
opportunities as the Department of Homeland Security
construction begins in ward 8.
I am strongly supportive of the GSA project. Now, we are
keenly aware that the St. Elizabeths project is the largest of
its kind in GSA history, I think. The Ward 8 Business Council
is honored to be so meaningfully engaged in this project.
In order to ensure that there is some sense of
transparency, GSA, to their credit, made concerted efforts to
reach out to the community very early on in this process. Over
the years, we have held many, many meetings. And there were
several key issues that kept resonating: jobs, minority
contracting, commercial development on the north and south wall
of the West Campus of St. Elizabeths on Martin Luther King, Jr.
Avenue, environmental justice issues, their qualities, and
unification.
Tonight I would like to address three of these issues.
First of all, I would like to applaud Congresswoman Norton,
GSA, and Clark Construction for opening the opportunity.
It is my understanding that over 2,000 people applied for
jobs at this particular site. I clearly understand that the
Federal Government cannot be persuaded to hire ward 8 residents
only. However, in light of the fact that you are in our
backyard, ward 8 matters. I understand today that it is
reported that 500 or more D.C. ward 8 residents have secured
stable, permanent employment for this very historic project.
I highly applaud the extraordinary work that has been
accomplished through extraordinary community outreach by the
following people, Mr. Thomas James, Mr. Chris Mills, Mr.
Shapour Ebadi, Ms. Bonnie Echoles, Mr. Diude Bathman, and Ms.
LaJuan Stevens, in doing a good job on this diligent outreach
endeavor. The community was quite adamant that jobs are a
priority. This is for our residents and our community to
improve their quality of life.
We continue to meet with GSA and their partners on a
monthly basis with the coordination of Councilman Barry's
office and GSA. The Ward 8 Business Council has worked
tirelessly to help acquire the opportunities for our local
CDEs. When we learned that the Federal Government required 8(a)
certification, our Federal partners were eager to step up to
the plate and help them become better informed about the 8(a)
process. I am happy to announce that several small and local
businesses were awarded contracts from ward 8.
The GSA project is still relevant in the economic union
that is generating growth in ward 8. The big contractors
sometimes have a tendency to be a bit resistant to working with
emerging small and local businesses. However, we have conquered
that battle.
Finally, it really strikes me that this the largest
development project in the GSA history and that they currently
are planning for commercialization on Martin Luther King, Jr.
Avenue. And the East Campus is so far behind the eight ball.
If we do not step up to the plate, the ward could lose
millions of dollars in the form of disposable income. My
greatest fear is that a customer base of 14,000 employees will
be losing the opportunity for ward 8. Collaboration is the
goal. We will not, and I repeat we will not, allow these
dollars to unwillingly leave our community.
Ms. Norton, I appreciate your astute observation about the
amenities. We are hoping to work with Councilmember Barry's
office to look at the Members' issues to form a committee. And,
quite frankly, I hope that I will be the chair of that
committee when it happens.
I would like to thank Councilmember Barry and Brenda
Richardson for their help to establish a valuable partnership
and taking significant community building steps in this very
massive undertaking and to you, Congresswoman Norton. This
would not have been possible without all of your hard work and
commitment to the residents of the District of Columbia.
I hope all of you in this room remember there's something
great in the new ward 8. And I thank you.
Ms. Norton. Well, thank you, Mr. Bunn.
The next witness is Beverly L. Thomas, President of
Regional Contracting Services.
Now, Ms. Thomas was our small business of the year, an
annual award that we made. And it turns out that she had a
contract for this very project.
So would you please proceed with your testimony now, Ms.
Thomas?
Ms. Thomas. Thank you. Good afternoon, Congresswoman
Norton, Members of the Subcommittee on Economic Development. My
name is----
Ms. Norton. Can everybody hear her?
Ms. Thomas. My name is Beverly Thomas. And I am the
President of Regional Contracting Services. We are a certified
8(a) firm located here in the District of Columbia. We are also
a CDE firm. We have been in the business here in the District
of Columbia for nine years.
At Regional, we have had the opportunity to work with Clark
Construction for about seven years now as well as some other
general contractors here in the community as well as some of
the current contractors and subcontractors. And over the course
of nine years, we have worked very, very diligently in
developing good relationships with all of the general
contractors as well as the Subcontracting Committee. Through
that hard work, myself, my team, all the guys in the field, we
are able to take those relationships further and competitively
bid on the St. Elizabeths project.
We were able to secure opportunities because we have those
relationships. And I think that was really the most critical
thing. And having those relationships when we did get those
opportunities to bid, it wasn't just a blind bid and it was
just our name with so many others. It was based on the
relationship, and that was critical.
Currently we are not on the project because our sort of
work has not come up yet. And so our plan in dealing with
recruits, specifically ward 8 people because that's really
where the emphasis needs to be, we are going to use the same
approach that we have always used. One, we always go to DOES,
Department of Employment Services.
The other way we always recruit for the job is through the
Washington Hispanic newspaper because we definitely believe in
inclusion of everyone. And we definitely look for people that
are bilingual because that really gives us a competitive edge.
And that to us is equally important.
The additional way that we are looking at recruiting people
for the project is something that we started about five years
ago, which is an employee referral program. The employees that
we have with us have been with us between five to six years. So
obviously they are pretty happy working with us. And we
actually pay a referral fee to employees to recruit other
people. And they understand the requirements here in ward 8 as
well as other District of Columbia people.
Lastly, what we do, which has really been, I think,
critical for our success, is that while a lot of companies will
look at just putting laborers on a job, we don't hire laborers.
We look at people and say, ``If you're going to work here, you
have to go to an apprenticeship school because we are a better
company when everyone can work and do everything that is
required of us.``
So we have an improvement apprenticeship program here in
the District of Columbia, which was approved by DOES, for our
scope of work within carpentry training. We had that program
since 2003. So we have that training.
We pay your training to make sure everyone is trained in
first aid, CPR, those things that give us a very low rate in
terms of accidents and a high rate with safety because that is
important. And that is one of the ways that we have a
competitive edge over other small businesses because of all of
the training.
For us, it doesn't stop there. What we also do, then, has
helped us with Clark Construction and other contractors is that
we spend a lot of money with outside agencies on what we like
to call personal development training. Conflict resolution is
critical. Diversity training for all of the people that work
there is critical. Anger management is critical.
So all of those things we spend time and money to teach
everyone how to work through conflict because if you work on a
construction job, there is a lot of conflict with scheduling
the general contractors and all of the other subs. You have to
have a way to work through that.
So our goal for all of our employees is to give them the
best technical knowledge possible, the best training possible,
but also give them the required life skills that they will
need. And because of all of those things, the regional team
just continues to work very effectively, again, with Clark,
other general contractors and other contractors.
So we do thank you for having this opportunity to come
before the Committee this evening.
Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Ms. Thomas. And, again,
congratulations for your success in competitively winning the
contract on the project.
We will hear next from Kathleen McKirchy, Director of the
Community Services Agency, Metropolitan Washington Council,
AFL-CIO.
Ms. McKirchy. Thank you very much, Congresswoman Norton and
Congressman Diaz-Balart. Thank you for giving us the
opportunity to be here today and talk a little bit about the
program that we are running.
The Community Services Agency is the nonprofit arm of Metro
Washington AFL-CIO, which is the area labor federation
representing 175 local unions and about 150,000 area union
members. Some of those affiliates are represented here in the
audience today. Also the President of the Labor Council, Josh
Williams, is here as well.
As we testified last October, our agency won a contract
from GSA to provide pre-apprenticeship training and job
placement services to 265 area low-income residents, including
women, minorities, youth, and ex-offenders. We are operating
this program currently in conjunction with our partners: Wider
Opportunities for Women and Covenant House DC.
We also have partnerships with all of the area union-
registered apprenticeship programs and with the associated
general contractors of D.C. who are helping us with job
placement. We also have arrangements with Prince George's
Community College and D.C. Department of Employment Services.
And we have agreements with over 30 area community-based
organizations who help us recruit clients and coordinate case
management with us.
We were awarded this contract effective October 1. It
recently has been extended to provide for an additional 53
people. And we expect that we will be running those through at
least February 2011, possibly a few months past that.
We have two deliverables. The first is to provide training
to 233 individuals. And our pre-apprenticeship training is very
similar to what Ms. Thomas was describing. It includes OSHA 10,
which is the 10 hours of safety and health training, CPR and
first aid, blueprint reading, orientation to the construction
industry, construction map review, careers in construction,
apprenticeships, unions, job potential, tools and materials,
job readiness, and adult education components, an overview of
the green energy field and career paths in green, and also
hands-on experiences at our local union apprenticeship schools.
To date we have trained or have in training with our
current class 161 adults and youth, 105 of whom have been D.C.
residents. Our second deliverable is to place at least 180 of
these people into paid apprenticeship programs or directly into
jobs. And to date we have placed 55 individuals, 35 of whom are
D.C. residents.
We have a regular weekly process at the opportunities
trailer on campus. We do a couple of things there. We recruit
area residents, mostly D.C. residents obviously, for our
clauses. We are currently running a six-week class now. We are
starting another adult class on July 19th. So we recruit some
of our students from the folks who come through there.
We also promote our graduates with the contractors who have
presences in the opportunities trailer. And we are also working
with individuals who have signed up at the trailer who may
already have past construction experience. They won't be in a
pre-apprenticeship class, but they could use help with job
placement. So we're working on that as well.
We have been also working with Clark Construction since the
beginning. Last week, as was mentioned, our current youth class
was given an overview of the project at the site and a tour of
the site by the Clark Construction staff. The students were
able to speak with managers and workers to get a better idea of
what is required on construction jobs and various possibilities
for careers in the construction industry.
Although we haven't placed any of our graduates on this
project to date, we expect that we will be working closely with
Clark and the subcontractors to do just that. As you know, the
work is preliminary at the moment. And there have been fairly
specific requirements for jobs at the moment; for example, the
250 truck drivers and some other technical jobs on the site.
But we expect to be working with Clark as the project rolls out
and get more people placed in apprenticeships and on jobs.
I want to thank you again, Madam Chairwoman, for the
leadership you have already played in securing the funds and
helping to ensure that the stimulus dollars which are funding
this project are benefitting D.C. residents and local residents
in need. We are committed to continuing to operate a quality
program which satisfies all of our deliverables and helps put
our target population of local residents to work in great
careers in the construction industry.
Thank you.
Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Ms. McKirchy.
We will hear next from Cecil Bennett, who is an operator
for the Clark Foundations.
Mr. Bennett. Thank you.
Good evening. My name is Cecil Bennett. I am an operator
for the Clark Construction, also ward 8 resident. I went to a
union apprenticeship school and graduated as a journeyman
operator. I am grateful for the opportunities given to me by
Clark Construction and happy that I will be on this project.
Thank you again.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Bennett. That's all we needed to
hear about that. The man's got a job.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Norton. Thank you. That was good news, Mr. Bennett.
Let's go now to Gabriel Stewart, who is a laborer with
Clark Foundations.
Mr. Stewart. Good evening, everyone. I am Gabriel Stewart,
and I am a resident of ward 8. I am a laborer of Clark
Construction and have been for five years.
I am thankful for the opportunity that I have been given
right here in my backyard. Even though the work I do is hard,
dusty, and dirty, I enjoy it. And I am grateful that the Coast
Guard project is here in ward 8. Thank you.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Stewart.
And, finally, is it Yanic?
Ms. Hardie. It's Yanic.
Ms. Norton. Yanic Hardie, President, SEP, Hardie
Industries.
Ms. Hardie. Good afternoon, Chairperson Norton, Mr. Diaz-
Balart, and Members of the Subcommittee. I am Yanic Hardie,
President of Hardie Industries, Inc. And thank you for the
opportunity to submit testimony on our company, the services we
provide, and our experience associated with the redevelopment
of the St. Elizabeths campus for the headquarters for the
Department of Homeland Security.
Hardie Industries, Inc. is a woman-owned construction
company that offers design, build, preconstruction,
construction management, general construction program, and
project management, and various other construction services to
meet a range of clients' needs. We are an 8(a) CDE HUB zone
small business.
Formed in 1996, the company has built this reputation by
the satisfactory completion of multiple projects over the last
decade. Hardie Industries has a capacity to execute
construction projects valued from 5,000 to $800 million.
Our capacity has grown through years of hard work and our
commitment to providing excellent service. We have serviced
over 1,000 engineering and construction task orders through
design build, design bid, and turnkey construction delivery
methods.
As a result of our experienced commitment to safety and our
commitment to providing quality construction service with
responsive leadership, we currently have a bonding capacity of
over 100 million.
As a local company in ward 8, we look forward to
opportunities to work and partner with GSA and Clark
Construction. We do that by providing local companies like
Hardie Industries, Inc. with increased opportunities with the
residents in ward 8 and the District of Columbia to obtain
employment.
As a company, we have partnered with local nonprofit groups
to provide District residents, specifically ward 8 residents,
with training and information to obtain employment in the
construction industry. We have partnered to offer courses and
information to residents, whom we have subsequently hired on
construction projects.
Our services have included providing residents with access
to courses on becoming construction flaggers and informing
residents of the various training facilities and educational
resources for trades in the construction industry, such as
construction management.
Our hope is that Clark Construction and GSA will work
together to make an increased effort to provide viable
contracts that will allow us to offer viable employment to
District residents.
We believe that Clark Construction's and GSA's commitment
to the following will allow Hardie Industries and other local
companies to successfully participate in the St. Elizabeths
project: increase outreach to local business, providing
forecasts of upcoming projects, community and opportunities to
businesses.
Hardie Industries currently has a small subcontract with
Metro Total Joint Venture to provide hauling and dumping
services for approximately six to eight months. This contract
supports the excavation of soil and preparation of the St.
Elizabeths site for the foundation.
Our work started in April, on April 26, 2010. Since that
time, approximately 5,700 truckloads of clean fill dirt has
been delivered to our dump site. We have hired 19 employees as
site superintendents and flaggers. We worked with the flagger
training program, the flaggers, and hired seven local residents
to work on the project as well. We will continue to train and
hire from the local community for employment as those positions
become available.
Our overall observation and experience with this project is
that there should be more monitoring and a third party
organization to oversee matters and report on small and
minority business goals.
It is important that small businesses have a profitable
experience as a result of this project. Winning a contract and
losing money to deliver the service is not a successful venture
for small businesses. In our opinion, GSA, Clark Construction
are those in a position which needs to be mindful of this fact.
Thank you again for this opportunity.
Ms. Norton. Thank you, Ms. Hardie, for that testimony.
I am going to ask Mr. Diaz-Balart if he would like to begin
the questioning.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. I appreciate that, Madam Chairwoman,
particularly, as I said before, because of votes, I got here
late. I am going to have to excuse myself early. So I will try
to be brief in my questions, and I will try to ask you if you
will be relatively brief. And I know that I would be able to
follow up with you, Madam Chair, on other specifics. So, again,
thank you.
Mr. Bunn, are you satisfied with the work that is currently
being done to hire locally and to use local businesses?
Mr. Bunn. Well, I'm satisfied with the effort of work
opportunities. I am not satisfied with the work because
clearly, as the Congresswoman stated earlier, I think it has
been more for the lack of miscommunication for the ward itself.
If you ask anybody in the ward how many jobs are available,
they are going to tell you 1,000 jobs to 1,500 jobs. And there
are 1,500 jobs, they're saying, just nothing to get part of the
contract. So as the project moves on, there will be better
opportunities.
But I don't think that is being communicated to the ward as
well. And I work with GSA and Clark. We have been trying to do
that. We are holding meetings. We are talking to people. But it
is difficult. When people put out the word, that is not true.
And that is the reason why this hearing is so important so the
ward can hear some facts. And, as you know, just tonight some
information is circulated that wasn't true. And that is some of
the things that we have to overcome.
But overall the project is moving well. I think that there
should be more opportunities for ward 8 residents and ward 8
CDs, even though the law says that you can't do that.
And, just to give you a short, brief thing about what I am
talking about, when the 8(a) certification issue came out, I
didn't have anything to do but pick up the phone and call
Bonnie and call a couple of other people there. And they didn't
need to respond to us. We couldn't say that it was a ward 8
project.
The congresswoman held a ward 8 certification day down at
the Martin Luther King Library in Washington, D.C. And that was
part of our efforts. And we really appreciate that. So those
kinds of things would help us.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Thank you.
Ms. Thomas?
Ms. Thomas. Yes?
Mr. Diaz-Balart. How many jobs do you think, do you believe
that your involvement in this project will actually create, if
you know?
Ms. Thomas. Actually, I do. Congressman, the contract that
we were awarded, it is a two-part contract. It's with regard to
the glass and glazing. Right now we have under contract 2.6
million to purchase the glass. We finally got the drawings to
now bid on the actual work. And so based on the glass and
glazing the curtain wall, that would actually create for us
roughly 13 to 15 jobs.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Great. And you mentioned your efforts
regarding training. Any idea how many of your trainees actually
go to work on the actual project?
Ms. Thomas. Well, actually,--and I'm glad you asked that
question--what we do is we put everyone through apprenticeship
school. Because of that training, everything that they learned
in apprenticeship school, they do learn the basics about
blueprint reading, et cetera, et cetera.
And then the second part of the training is all on-the-job
training because it doesn't matter what you read in a book. You
won't learn it until you apply it. So all of the training is
all hands-on, and that is how they really learn and understand
the carpentry field that we're in.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Great. Thank you.
Ms. McKirchy, in your testimony before the Subcommittee
last October, you mentioned that 32 individuals will be trained
through apprenticeship training program, right? That's kind of
a mouthful to me, but--and it was to prepare, I guess, entry-
level positions or unskilled positions? And can you provide us
with an update on that program? You had I think talked about
that. But how is it going?
Ms. McKirchy. It is going. They currently I think have 12
students in the class. It is a program that doesn't have a time
certain to it. It's sort of modeled after the individual
student. And so if the student can get where they need to be
within six weeks, they rotate out into employment. If they need
longer than that, they stay there until they're ready to get
employed.
Those are not students that we are training directly
through our pre-apprenticeship training directly through our
pre-apprenticeship training, but those are students that we're
helping get the OSHA 10 training and may need help with the job
placement again. But those are folks that are definitely part
of the project. And a few of those have been placed to date.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. I want to make sure I--it sounded like
your testimony--it looks like you have a pretty good working
relationship with Clark Construction and GSA regarding
training. Is that? Did I hear that right?
Ms. McKirchy. We do, although we haven't placed anyone yet
on this project. All of our placements have been with other
jobs around town.
We are not limited. Even though we have been funded through
GSA, we are not limited to placing people only on this project.
Our job is to get people employed anywhere. And so we have been
successful in that to date.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Are you finding major hurdles in order to
place those trainees in either this job or in other jobs? I
mean ----
Ms. McKirchy. Well, in general, I think there is about a 15
percent unemployment in the construction industry in the metro
area at this time.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. So that is the biggie?
Ms. McKirchy. And that is the biggie.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. That is the big one?
Ms. McKirchy. Yes.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Other than that, other than that, as if
that is not enough, right, any other real specific issues or
you pretty much think that -- I mean, again, employment is
always going to be a factor.
Ms. McKirchy. Some of it has been employment. Some of it is
the nature of the trainees that we graduate. Not all of them
may have access to transportation. Some of the jobs that are
available may not be in D.C. They are all over the metro area.
And so we have to be able to get to them. And sometimes that is
a bit of a hurdle.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Sure, sure. Thank you.
I just have basically the same questions for both Mr.
Bennett and Mr. Stewart, which is Mr. Bunn just mentioned how
communication is a big part of it in getting the word out. So
from your experience, what steps can be taken to ensure that
job opportunities are publicized to the community, that people
know that there were opportunities out there? Is there anything
that you can think of that isn't happening that should be
happening as far as communication?
And also there is one other question, whoever wants to do
it. As part of the training programs, what programs do you all
believe are, frankly, important or critical to preparing -- you
know, you all went through it. I mean, you just mentioned, Mr.
Bennett, your training program.
What kind of training programs do you all think are
essential to make sure that people do have the opportunity when
they do come out with -- we know with some of them. So those
are the questions if you all want to try to kind of take six,
seven.
How did you hear about it? How did you hear about it
specific to the jobs that are available, et cetera?
Mr. Bennett. Well, for me, I went through my union
apprenticeship program. Clark hired union operators. And my
local 77 sent me to apply. That is how I heard about the job,
just being an employee for Clark.
I think all the words is pretty much out there. You just
have to take advantage of them, me personally because, like I
said, I have gone through the apprenticeship program. I heard
about it through the Unemployment Office. So it's out there.
You just have to take advantage of it.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Pursue it?
Mr. Bennett. Yes.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Pursue it and try to take advantage of it.
Mr. Stewart?
Mr. Stewart. Me personally, I didn't hear about it. I just
went out one day to see the man. I think that's how I came upon
working for Clark.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Seek and ye shall find. Those are reliable
words, I'll tell you.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Ms. Yanic Hardie?
Ms. Hardie. Yes?
Mr. Diaz-Balart. That's a beautiful name.
Ms. Hardie. Thank you.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. I understand you mentioned a little bit
about your company. Is it true you also did some work in South
Florida?
Ms. Hardie. Yes.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Good. I thought I liked you for something.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. How are you involved in this project and
that kind of project? And then what do you love? And what do
you hear about it to make you want to be for it?
Ms. Hardie. Well, as a small company--and we're 8(a)--in
the District, we're always looking for contracts and
opportunities to bid on and also opportunities to create
opportunities for D.C. and ward 8 residents.
So we were aware that this project would become available
today. And we had been in contact, for example, with the Ward 8
Business Council. And we have gotten assistance and advice from
them. They have been very, very helpful, Mr. Bunn in
particular.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. So, actually, your answer is not much
different from Mr. Stewart's, which is you pursue it and hustle
for it.
Ms. Hardie. That's basically it, exactly.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Right. Now, as far as this, do you believe
that GSA and Clark Construction, that their efforts, their
outreach efforts, are sufficient for small businesses like
yours and others?
Ms. Hardie. We believe that they have made a good effort.
And we would like to see an increased effort.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Very diplomatic answer.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Do you expect to be involved in other work
beyond earthwork and demolition for this project?
Ms. Hardie. We have a tremendous amount of capacity. And
our bonding capacities are truly high. As I indicated, it's 100
million, which is pretty high for a small company. And we have
grown, too. I mean, we have developed that over the years.
So we are working. And I will be speaking with Mr. Lawrence
after this session. We are looking for other opportunities, of
course.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Madam Chairman, if I may? Again, I
apologize to all of you for having to leave early. I don't have
to tell you all that I will be hearing about the rest of the
meeting from somebody very close to me.
And I want to thank you, Madam Chairman, for having this
meeting. I think the witnesses that came before us today had a
lot to say. I learned a lot. I look forward to continuing
working with you. And, more importantly, I want to thank you
for your leadership.
As I mentioned before, I know this is repetitive, but I
think it bears hearing because you don't hear a lot of that
these days. The Chairwoman and I may have a million differences
and a million disagreements.
However, on issues that are important, you will see that we
come together, that we speak as one voice. And a lot of it is
due to the Chairwoman's ability to bring people together to
focus on what is important.
I want to thank you for this hearing. Again, I apologize
for having to step out, but thank you for the opportunity.
Ms. Norton. Well, thank you, Mr. Diaz-Balart. There is no
apology needed. And you were very good to come out at the end
of a long day of work in voting to spend some time with us.
And it is in keeping with the way in which Mr. Diaz-Balart
has approached all of his work in this Subcommittee always
working closely with me. There is no daylight between us. We
both are trying to get things done, get things built and to
hold GSA's feet to the fire, among other things. So I thank you
again very much, Mr. Diaz-Balart.
Mr. Diaz-Balart. Madam Chairman, my apologies again. Thank
you.
Ms. Norton. Let me ask Mr. Bunn first. You in your
testimony indicated some concern about the development of the
East Campus----
Mr. Bunn. Yes.
Ms. Norton. --and the planning for the commercialization of
Martin Luther King Avenue. What is your concern? What do you
believe are the tenements to this? Why don't you think that
will come naturally under this project and out of collaboration
with the District of Columbia?
Mr. Bunn. Well, early on before GSA was actually approved,
we started communicating with GSA about this project. And we
had the opportunity to be taken by Mr. Thomas James to one of
their other sites in White Oak in Maryland. And I had the
opportunity to sit down and talk with the resident that
spearheaded that.
And we just don't believe that we are getting the support
that we should have gotten from a project this size for our
community. The amenities that you talked about, I don't think
that's been talked about enough. I don't think people think
that we really understand what that means.
I will tell you, Congresswoman, we are very happy with the
relationship that we have with GSA. But, having said that, if
the mayor and the city does not start to work on the East
Campus--and I know GSA is having some talk with them about it--
we will have 14,000 people that will have nowhere to go and
nothing to do in ward 8 other than work.
Now, we are anticipating that--this is what is going on
now. I mean, we have some homes in this ward before the price
sink that was priced at $700,000, right on Mississippi Avenue,
lovely homes. We anticipate that some of these 14,000 people
will decide they will become residents of the District of
Columbia, those that aren't, and residents of ward 8.
It doesn't make sense not to drive across the bridge ten
miles to get to a job you can walk right across the street to
basically. So it's just real negotiation. We talked about it. I
met with GSA key people. And we had discussions about it. But
we can't seem to get GSA to formulate a real meaningful
document that will say that, ``We are going to do these
things'' or ``We are not going to do these things on the West
Campus'' to make sure that the East Campus and the rest of the
ward has a chance to rejuvenate itself.
I want to sit down with Mr. Lawrence. I love coming to your
community, Councilwoman, because I come over there all the time
and eat. I want to sit down in restaurants. I would love
hanging out over there, but, you know, I understand all of
those things take time.
But if the government can spend an approximate $15 million
from this thing in the second and third phase, then surely we
can spend a few dollars to help make the surroundings of the
people that's going to be working here more beautiful and the
people in the ward because I think part of the problem for the
residents of the ward, the reason why you hear so much negative
talk about ward 8 is because we haven't been shown that
somebody really cares about us.
I mean, it is difficult to say that you want a job and
somebody tell you that there's 1,000 jobs. And, yet and still,
there are 19 people working.
Now, I will be the first to admit, Congresswoman, we have a
lot of problems with our young men passing the drug test. We
understand that. And I tell everybody in apprenticeship
programs and all of this stuff, but me myself, I believe there
is too much in training if you're not going to tie training
with jobs. The city is paying millings of dollars in training.
And after six months, it goes away.
So I am not going to take up all the time, but at some
point I want to sit down and talk with you because these are
some very serious issues facing the ward.
Ms. Norton. Well, your skepticism comes from a long
history, Mr. Bunn. So I think one should approach. Particularly
when you see the Federal Government coming across the Anacostia
the first time, the skepticism is what makes people do right.
On the East Campus, the sequencing that we are working on
now has to do with the West Campus. It doesn't mean we won't be
working on the East Campus. The master plan does, in fact, in
writing indicate that there will be a building on the East
Campus. And all that the DHS has done so far, GSA has done so
far, is to move in that direction.
The city is cooperating. Its matters will be heavily
involved in all of that. We can't do commercial development for
local communities. That has to be done by the local community.
I can state for the record that the Federal Government will
already build on land it owns. So to the extent that the
Federal Government transferred that parcel in the 1980's, the
only way in which OMB or the Federal Government, the specific
agency that has the say-so, is that we have had to work out
some arrangement with the District of Columbia. You wouldn't
build a house on what you didn't own. And we are not about to
lease any part of this development.
So we have talked to the District government about the quid
pro quo, developing infrastructure there that would allow the
amenities to spring up, and the Federal Government would build
on land that it owned there as the only way we are willing to
do it and that the OMB would allow us to do it. And we have
been absolutely clear about that. So there is no getting around
that.
There are some things about this project and the Federal
Government and the way it does real estate that I detest
because they do not do real estate so that you can make deals
easily because of all of the rules attached to doing it.
But we have found--and I just wanted to lay to rest your
concerns--the East Campus is part and parcel of this
development. It is in the master plan. We can't put that
building over on the West Campus. And I think we are on the
same page.
I must say that I think you came with skepticism. When
people see they have to show you, that's how things get done.
I'm going to ask Ms. Thomas. I am very interested in the
fact that you have already filed for a competitive contract.
Now, what is your business? You didn't describe the kind of
business you are in.
Ms. Thomas. Regional Contracting Services. We're a
carpentry company. So with carpentry, it's furnishing,
installing doors, frames, hardware, the individual type
specialties, which are anything that goes into your restrooms.
We do everything with blocking, with woodwork. In addition,
installation of through-wall penetration, which is by a stop
air barrier. So all of those things fall into carpentry.
Ms. Norton. How did you get into that? Are you the founder
of the company?
Ms. Thomas. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. How did you get into this business, Ms. Thomas?
Ms. Thomas. About nine years ago, when I moved ago here, I
worked for a contractor. He was outside of the District of
Columbia. And at that time, there was a lot of talk about
building the D.C. Convention Center.
And, of course, the D.C. Convention Center at that time had
a huge LSDBE requirement. So he actually presented me with an
opportunity. He said, you know, ``Did you ever think about
going into business?''
I was like, ``I don't really know about construction, you
know, all that much.'' But I looked into all the different
opportunities in the District. And I had a few dollars saved
up. And so I kind of literally took a leap of faith and found
space in the District and got certified and pretty much started
out by myself, just kind of as a one-woman show, and just
really started beating the streets and beating the pavement,
you know, got my brochures together, my business cards, and
just went to any and every outreach out there for every small
business opportunity out there, just literally one at a time.
And the company started to grow. And then I was able to
hire people. And here we are nine years later.
Ms. Norton. How many Federal contracts have you qualified
for?
Ms. Thomas. Currently we're actually under two Federal
contracts now.
Ms. Norton. Nice to see you come.
Ms. Thomas. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. We qualified and
successfully completed about eight or nine Federal contracts,
not all in the District of Columbia, some in Virginia, some in
Maryland. So this particular one would really be number nine.
Ms. Norton. That is a wonderful story. I would encourage
everybody in this ward. Ms. Thomas wasn't a born carpenter. She
probably isn't a carpenter yet.
Ms. Thomas. No.
Ms. Norton. But she is running a bunch of carpenters. It is
a very inspiring story.
Ms. McKirchy, you indicated you have placed some of your
graduates. Now, yours is a pre-apprentice program. What kinds
of places have you placed them? And since the pre-apprentice
does not involve training for a craft, how do they become a
part of the job structure where they are based?
Ms. McKirchy. A number of our graduates have gone on to be
accepted into the union apprenticeship programs. That is our
primary first choice to try to get people placement in those
programs because they are earned while you learn, learn while
you earn. And you end up with a portable credential that is
readily accepted around the country once you complete these
programs, as my neighbor here has done.
So that is my first preference for placement, but we have
also placed people, some with the Federal Government. We just
placed one of our women with the Smithsonian. She is doing some
building maintenance-type work.
And it just depends on the individual client and what their
interest happens to be, you know, where the person might end
up.
Ms. Norton. The training can, especially on union jobs,
really matter. The Step Up program that was used to build the
Convention Center became a pool which proceeded a few years
later to build the Woodrow Wilson Bridge.
Now, these two things may not seem to have much in common.
The two witnesses here will tell you that when you learn a
trade or craft, it is not related to the kind of building. It
is related to the craft you have.
Now, Mr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart, I have questions for you
because one of the things I have found is a huge
misunderstanding of what construction work requires. ``Wow.
People get to make that big money,'' you know, you hear people
saying, ``Oh, you know, I can stand there with a flag'' if they
see people doing road work. They don't understand. It beats
digging a ditch. And he's now raising the flag sometimes
because they steer people from raising the flag to doing other
parts of the work most of the time.
Let me ask you both, what time do you have to get to work,
gentlemen?
Mr. Stewart. About 6:30.
Ms. Norton. How about you?
Mr. Bennett. 6:30-7:00.
Ms. Norton. I want everybody to hear that.
Mr. Stewart. 6:30.
Ms. Norton. It does seem to me that it is a disservice not
to rule out what this work is before the collapse of the
economy in 2007, when we were working off of those bubbles that
finally flew up on us there was a shortage of journeymen
throughout the country.
The reason there was a shortage of journeymen is that the
baby boomer journeymen aging out, their sons don't want to do
this hard work. Their daughters don't want to do this hard
work. There are places for people who want to get up at 6:30 in
the morning.
Tell me precisely what kind of work each of you do. Mr.
Bennett, what do you do all day? And do you do it through all
kinds of weather? I need to have some sense of what your
workplace life is like.
Mr. Bennett. Well, for me because I have the machines, I
have to be here rain, sleet, snow. It may be 100 degrees out
there. I have to be out there because I've got a closed cabin.
So it's really no----
Ms. Norton. Is it air-conditioned, sir?
Mr. Bennett. I've been there four years. This is my first
a/c machine.
Ms. Norton. All right. Good job.
Mr. Bennett. And, like I said, we have to be out there. I
have to be out there because as long as there are guys out
there who want to work, you have to have a machine out there.
So I can't be there saying, ``It's too hot that they can't
work.`` I can't say that. I have to stay out there because I
have the machine.
Ms. Norton. Mr. Stewart?
Mr. Stewart. Yes, ma'am. Mr. Stewart. And, first of all, it
can be 80-plus degrees out there. And I'm a lagger. What I do
there is I lift the things, secure the foundations so the
buildings don't collapse after they dig up.
Ms. Norton. Say that again.
Mr. Stewart. Lagging. I lift boils that weigh just about as
much as I do. And what I do with them boils, I line them up
against two beams to keep the surface from caving in after they
done dig out. Then I take picks and shovel and digs out beams
and re-lag all beams.
Then I carry tie bags that weighs more than me. I help
carry tie bags. It takes about every man we have out there to
carry tie bags. And it's all day constantly.
Ms. Norton. Do you work in the shade, Mr. Stewart?
Mr. Stewart. No, ma'am. I work in the sun all day. And then
I mix mortar--that's the cement--with the mix machine for the
tie bags. And I do several things around there.
Then I secure that water flow around there with the water
pumps. Then I come up here all day. You know what I'm saying?
Doing different assignments.
But I like what I do. So that's what I keep doing.
Ms. Norton. Would either of you mind telling us what the
hourly wage for people who do your kind of work is, beginning,
let's say beginning, what the hourly wage is?
Mr. Stewart. Mines was, let me see, $13.
Mr. Bennett. Mines is, for me right now I'm making $30 and
some change an hour.
Ms. Norton. Now? And you have health care as well, in
addition?
Mr. Bennett. Yeah. I get health care, dental.
Ms. Norton. You're a union man?
Mr. Bennett. Yeah, union. My union is very strong.
Ms. Norton. And, Mr. Stewart, are you employed pursuant to
a union as well or----
Mr. Stewart. I never have, no. I started off getting 13. I
don't get 13 now. I'm getting 20-22 an hour now.
Ms. Norton. Both of you all earn every cent of that. I
couldn't do what you do for ten minutes. And when I hear people
talk about, ``I can do that work,'' I think they show
disrespect for what it takes to do what you do, disrespect if
they really think this is like doing it in your garden, doing
it until you get hot, going in and getting some lemonade.
What breaks do you get, sirs, both of you?
Mr. Stewart. You handle that.
[Laughter.]
Mr. Bennett. Well, I get a ten-minute break. That's at 9:00
o'clock.
Mr. Stewart. About the same.
Ms. Norton. And then you get a lunch hour?
Mr. Stewart. No, no lunch hour.
Mr. Bennett. No lunch hour.
Ms. Norton. When do you leave, sir?
Mr. Bennett. When you get home, when the work is done.
Ms. Norton. What are the hours?
Mr. Bennett. Well, from 6:30 to 2:30. It's pretty much on
us. We kind of like have it set up that way. So if we take
lunch, we have to stay to 3:00 o'clock. If we want to beat like
the rush hour traffic, the heat, that's on us.
Mr. Stewart. Yeah. It's our choice. And then sometimes we
work overtime. That's our choice. So that's on us.
Ms. Norton. This is very important to hear. And it's not
the first time I've heard it. They work long hours to get off.
And they're doing hard work. And they make sense. They make a
lot of sense. This is not people still in some office with time
to spare.
It's very important to lay that out for the record because
it is little known, little known, and little understood.
Ms. Hardie, I would like to ask you about what you discuss
in your testimony about the difficulty of winning a small
business contract because you may lose money in the process.
What are you referring to?
Ms. Hardie. Well, we believe that for us we have to have
more opportunities. And we have to be competitive. And there
just have to be more opportunities for small businesses. We
have the ability. We have the capacity. And we have the
bonding.
Ms. Norton. I'm not talking about that. Perhaps I misread
your testimony.
Ms. Hardie. OK.
Ms. Norton. Where you discussed the difficulty in small
businesses first getting a contract but then going all the way
to make a profit, as you anticipated, why?
Ms. Hardie. Sure. Congresswoman, when we build contracts,
it is important for small businesses to understand that there
are different fees and payments that have to be made from the
contract. So it is important for businesses to understand that
you have to have a profit margin. And so it is how you approach
a contract. And it is also the opportunity that is presented.
Ms. Norton. Because if you don't do your figures correctly,
this may not be contracted to you?
Ms. Hardie. Exactly. You can lose.
Ms. Norton. You have had contracts before.
Ms. Hardie. Absolutely.
Ms. Norton. Like Ms. Thomas, you've gotten several
contracts before?
Ms. Hardie. Yes.
Ms. Norton. How many contracts have you had in the past?
Ms. Hardie. We have had over, I would say over, 100. We
have done over 1,000 task orders. Again, we have been in
business since 1996.
Ms. Norton. What is your role with the business?
Ms. Hardie. I started the business.
Ms. Norton. Another one here.
Ms. Hardie. Yes, with a baby in one arm. We are a women-
owned construction company. We do design build. We do
everything. We are a construction----
Ms. Norton. I'll ask you the same question I asked Ms.
Thomas. She was fairly unlikely to be in the carpentry
business. What was your background that enabled you to go into
business?
Ms. Hardie. OK. I started out as an attorney. And I started
renovating my own home and decided, ``I love doing this.'' And
from there, I said, ``If I can renovate my own home, make it
beautiful, I can do it for other people.''
So I started studying about how to do home improvements,
home building. I sat for different exams and basically with a
steel-toed boot and hard hat just developed the company,
started bidding on Federal contract work, getting 8(a)-
certified, CDE-certified, and pretty much just pretty much
forcing our way through.
Ms. Norton. Again, anybody who it seems to me hears you and
hears Ms. Thomas understands that what it takes is not a lot of
wishing but a lot of hard. And it is very apparent and
inspiring to hear both of you describe that.
Ms. McKirchy, pre-apprenticeship programs turn out to be
very important. Now, I have to ask you, isn't it the case that
pre-apprenticeship programs help you get to people like Mr.
Stewart and Mr. Bennett because some people simply have to rush
out of such programs when they get to understand what really
construction, for example, really entails.
Ms. McKirchy. Well, there are a certain amount of people
that get into it without knowing what it is. And so pre-
apprenticeship can certainly open their eyes about what is
required and what the jobs are.
In our case, we have gone to a sort of a three-step
interview and approval process before we take people in. And we
try to look for people that have had some exposure to the
industry in some way, shape, or form that know a little bit
about what the construction industry is all about.
But then we also interview people. They have to take a type
test and pass an eighth grade reading and math because the
union apprenticeship programs and many of the other
apprenticeship programs require eighth grade reading and math.
The days when anybody could kind of walk in off the street and
get a good construction job are kind of gone. You have to have
some ability to master math and other skills in construction.
And we try to make it very clear to people what it is that
this work entails. It is not 9:00 to 5:00. It is outside. It is
noisy. It is dirty. It is hot. It is cold. There is a chance of
being injured. You know, you work at different job sites
throughout your work career. You are not going to an office
every day.
So we try to before we accept people into the program make
them understand what the jobs are. And I think we have gotten
to the point where we are doing a pretty good job of getting
those people who truly have an interest and an aptitude in
doing this kind of work.
Ms. Norton. It might be an interesting experience simply to
one day out of the training period take the class over to where
Mr. Bennett and Mr. Stewart are working on a hot day.
Ms. McKirchy. We just did that last week, as a matter of
fact. We have 18 to 24-year-olds in our current pre-
apprenticeship class. And we went to the site last Thursday.
And they trooped around the veneer. And they saw these
gentlemen at work.
And not a single person having seen that said, ``Oh, I'm in
the wrong place.'' It piqued their interest. It came them a
better, realistic idea of what these kinds of jobs are like and
what this kind of work is like. And I think it made for a
better student, actually, to have seen that.
Ms. Norton. Mrs. Thomas and Ms. Hardie, are you able--let
me put it this way. You heard me question Clark about hiring
local residents. Let me ask you about hiring local residents,
small businesses. Could you tell me whether you have hired
local residents for this job?
I know you may not be on the job yet. If not, how do you
intend to be held accountable as Clark is being held
accountable in many other subcontracts, all the other
subcontractors as well?
Ms. Hardie. May I? OK. Thank you.
We are actually performing right now. And what we have done
on our own is to form an alliance with certain nonprofits in
the ward. And if you come to our office at 1567 Alabama Avenue,
you will see that we have different documents, even on our
front door, where we say, you know, ``We are offering flagger
training.''
So we hold flagger training courses on our own and with
these nonprofits. And we also have different documents in our
officers that we provide to ward 8 residents on how to enter
the construction industry.
Again, this is not something that is forced upon us. This
is something that we want to do because we care about the
community and we care about making sure that this is a great
community for everyone.
Ms. Norton. Ms. Thomas?
Ms. Thomas. The way that we recruit--and it is specifically
for this particular project, ward 8--one of the first places
that we always go to is DOES, Department of Employment
Services. They are so receptive to you contacting them. I can't
say enough good things about them.
And we would take it a step further. The Office of
Apprenticeship within DOES, we can call them. We have their
numbers in our cell phones. ``This is the job. This is what
I've got coming up.'' And, you know, we are very honest, ``We
have a requirement for ward 8.''
We have roughly seven to eight guys that are currently on
our staff that are District residents and two that live in ward
8. So then with our employee referral program, you know, we
have a phone meeting every month. And it's ``OK, guys. We have
this job coming up. It is coming up in about a month.'' And we
send out our referral, employee referral, with the payroll
checks to everybody.
And we can specify ``We need people in ward 8.'' And,
again, because most of our employees have been with us five-
plus year, they can tell our story better than anyone. And with
the referral program, it is real simple. You bring me a guy. He
passes the drug screen. After 30 days, you get $50. After 60
days, you get another $50, After 90 days, you get another $50.
So the reason we pay the employees, because one is a lot
cheaper than all the other kind of advertising to recruit. The
other thing is they do not refer anyone to me that's not going
to have the same work ethic because they want the money. They
don't want to be embarrassed because then I'm hesitant to hire
somebody else again.
So the thing is that retaining good quality employees will,
in turn, have them recruit and bring good quality employees to
you. So it is real simple for us.
Ms. Norton. It's really simple. It is a great incentive.
And I am sure it holds--it leads to great collegiality within
the company.
Now, I am going to ask you, Ms. Hardie, you heard me
perhaps ask the first panel about the allegation of some
subcontractors like you, that there are contractors who try to
use them to mete goals. And they don't even get to do the work.
Has anybody ever tried to do that to you? And what was your
reaction if so?
Ms. Hardie. Well, as a woman in the construction industry,
people try a lot of things. But we make it clear that we intend
to perform on every single contract. We hire our own staff. We
hire from the ward. We hire our own superintendents. We hire
our own workers. And we expect them to have work on our
contracts.
Ms. Norton. No. I'm talking about you working for a
contractor----
Ms. Hardie. Right.
Ms. Norton. --and he uses you or Ms. Thomas to meet his
goals. Have you ever had the experience where he's used you for
that purpose but did not want to give you the work that was
done, essentially paid off people to get lost while the work
got done? Have you ever had anybody to try to do that?
Ms. Hardie. In our extensive experience, yes, we have. And
we just have had to make it clear we have a contract and we
intend to perform on the contract.
Ms. Norton. Have you ever had that experience, Ms. Thomas?
Ms. Thomas. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And everyone sees
the work. It's called passthrough work. And you've seen it at
every level.
The biggest thing that you have to, as Ms. Hardie says, is
that you really don't want to use the work. And I'm just going
to keep you paying. You have to muscle the contractor. And then
you also have to use muscle with the general contractor to say,
``Listen,'' XYZ ``contacted me. We know there is a small
business requirement, a minority requirement,'' et cetera, et
cetera. ``I need your help, Mr. General Contractor, to make
sure they carve out work for me.''
You know, the fact is is that truly we don't have the
capacity that Ms. Hardie does, but we are a legitimate
contractor where we can bond our jobs up to $15 million. So,
therefore, we have capacity.
And what you have to do--and it is a very delicate
balancing act because you want to not look at just the St.
Elizabeths project or some other project. It builds synergy
between your company and this prime contractor. It is a very
delicate balancing act, but you have to have the general
contractor assist you in forcing them to carve out work, let
them see that you can perform it on task, on schedule, on time,
get it right, work safely, and then start to change the mindset
that they look at you not as a woman, a minority, a CDE, an
8(a), but a legitimate contractor they can go to market with.
It does take time. It does take time. But if you perform,
then you are putting your company in a position for that prime
contractor to have a strategic partner to go to market with
time and time again. And that is the very delicate balancing
act.
It can be done. It is challenging. Not all the prime
contractors are interested. They do want to use you as a
passthrough. And that is when you have to make a conscious
decision to say, ``Do I take this little three or four percent
or do I just walk away from it and make a stand for what is
right?'' And that is the responsibility of the small business.
You can't cry ``Foul,'' Congresswoman, to say, ``Oh, they
just used me as a passthrough.'' You have the opportunity to
say, ``No,'' not sign the contract, use some leverage to get
the work. But if you take it and you sign it, you can't back
out.''
Ms. Norton. Well, I can see why you have been so
successful. No whining here.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Norton. Ms. Hardie?
Ms. Hardie. Well, I think, to piggyback on that,--and that
is what I mean by having steel-toed boots and a hard hat--you
have to have business savvy in this industry. You have to know
how to read a contract. You have to know how to budget. You
have to have good staff, like we do.
We have our own CFO, who is a CPA, on staff. She sits two,
and I say she sits two, doors down from me. So you have to have
the staff in place to make these good decisions and to be able
to say, ``Hey, we can do the work. Look at our past
performance. Look at the projects we have done. We are an
excellent company. If you give us an opportunity, we are not
going to let you down.''
Ms. Norton. I'm going to close by asking Mr. Bennett and
Mr. Stewart a question. You had to take drug tests in order to
get work at these projects. Is that not the case?
Mr. Bennett. Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Stewart. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. Are you tested more than once?
Mr. Bennett. Yes, ma'am.
Mr. Stewart. Yes, ma'am.
Ms. Norton. Tell me about how that occurs.
Mr. Stewart. Randomly.
Ms. Norton. Random testing?
Mr. Stewart. Right.
Ms. Norton. You, too, Mr. Bennett? Are you random tested?
Mr. Bennett. Yes, ma'am.
[Laughter.]
Ms. Norton. Let the record reflect that Mr. Bennett said
yes.
Again I wanted to have on the record and I want to indicate
that this hearing is on the record, just as the hearing on
Thursday on GSA. And the construction program will be on the
record. The only difference is that one is being at the Rayburn
Building, and this one was at St. Matthews Memorial Annex. It
is the same kind of hearing.
The reason I have gone to some lengths to ask you questions
is I wanted to get on the record not only for the benefit of
the Congress and the decisions we make but for the benefit of
the community that Mr. Bunn testified about what he called
communication I call various expectations when people heard
that this great big thing was coming here, the biggest
construction project in the United States of America today. It
is so big we call it a ``compound.'' It is not a building. It
is a series of buildings.
And when you hear that, some people see the dollar signs.
They don't see the work. And the reason they don't see the work
is not because they are lazy or dumb. It's because they have
not had the opportunity to learn what it takes to become what
Ms. Thomas and Ms. Hardie have become, to become what you, Mr.
Bennett, and you, Mr. Stewart, have become, to do what Mr. Bunn
has done, to redirect, to reorient his community to believing
that they can get contracts and then preparing them to do so
and for doing what Ms. McKirchy has to do, which is essentially
put people through a version of a boot camp. And the survivors
then go on.
Most people do not face such construction in the first
place. So they have no reason to know what the pattern has told
us today. We wanted to get it on the record. And we want to
make sure that the community, ward 8 and throughout the
District of Columbia, understands that this is a once-in-a-
millennium opportunity.
The Federal Government simply no longer builds much. We
lease much more than we build. We are going to be leasing even
a part of this project. So the notion of the Federal Government
spending this much money in building a compound, a series of
buildings, means that this is an opportunity for business to
learn and grow and for employees to learn and grow of the kind
you will not see in this city again in your lifetime I have to
tell you because every plot of ground is already built on.
The only thing that comes close to what we are doing today,
there are two periods in American life that come close. One is
when they built the Pentagon. But what is most like this period
is what FDR did during the New Deal.
Virtually everything you see on Constitution Avenue and
Pennsylvania Avenue was built as a stimulus project just the
way this was. And to get the money out of the Congress, I went
to them and said, ``If you are ever going to do it, then you
need to do it at a parallel time to what FDR did. If you're
going to do it, it won't make a lot of sense to start doing it
when it costs more to build ten years from now, when there are
a lot of people vying for jobs. If you're going to do it, you
can do it when people need it now. And you can help us get out
of a recession now.''
This is a long-term project that's going to provide jobs
for people like you and businesses, like you, if they want to
take advantage of this opportunity. Ut we cannot expect that
people are born into this world understanding what it takes to
qualify to do the work on such a project.
So I have regarded your testimony as invaluable. This has
been an official hearing for the record. We are going to take
parts of this hearing as they become relevant so that the
community understands exactly what it is that you do. We are
going to submit parts of your testimony, Mr. Bennett and Mr.
Stewart, to the apprenticeship programs so that they can hear
exactly what it takes.
When they opened the Opportunity Center, we asked for an
apprentice to be there. It happened to be a plumber's
apprentice. And there he was, a young man like you, not
overweight, fit. And he told us what it's like. He said, yeah,
he had to be there at 6:30.
And he was in his third year. I think it's four years to be
a plumber, four years. He was in his third year. Well, you see,
by that time, I was out of law school. This young man had
another year to go. And he not only worked every day doing the
kind of hard labor you do, but he had to go at night two nights
a week to class. And he was slim and happy. You know, he was
ready for hard work.
So the best preparation we can make for our young people is
to let them see for themselves or hear for themselves the kind
of testimony you have given.
We didn't plan it this way, Ms. Thomas and Ms. Hardie, that
there would be two women on, but that is the way life is. And
we have been very inspired that women have owned companies in
nontraditional work because if they can do this, it seems to me
it sends its own message or testimony very valuable to us, very
inspiring to hear.
Ms. McKirchy, I have known you for some time and the work
of Metropolitan Council AFL-CIO. I am not surprised that you
won this competitive contract. I was at your first graduation,
very inspired by it. I should have asked you, were there any
more women? There was one woman in that class.
Ms. McKirchy. There are more.
Ms. Norton. But there are more women now? These classes are
open to men and women. I mean, you see the women out on the
streets where they are laying roads, holding the flag. Those
women have got to go back and do hard work, too. It is just
their time to hold the flag.
And, of course, Mr. Bunn, you have been an inspiration to
this entire project and to this entire community. When the
community sees one of their own keeping track of what is
happening, it inspires their confidence. And that confidence
has been very important and very important to GSA.
GSA has lived up to that confidence so far. And our job,
particularly my job as Chair of the Subcommittee with
jurisdiction over this project, is to make sure everybody stays
on the same page. I do not play doctor. When there is some
issue, people just come to me. We try to straighten it out. We
don't have a hearing on every issue. We say the hearings to you
point in the project to where they can tell us something we
don't know and where they can tell the community something that
it may not know.
So on behalf of the Subcommittee--I know I speak for Mr.
Diaz-Balart. There are, of course, other Members of the
Subcommittee. I want to thank all of you for truly useful and
beneficial testimony that will help us to make this truly a
great project.
This hearing is adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 8:22 p.m., the foregoing matter was
concluded.]
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