[House Hearing, 113 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
THE IRS: TARGETING AMERICANS FOR THEIR POLITICAL BELIEFS
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HEARING
before the
COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT
AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED THIRTEENTH CONGRESS
SECOND SESSION
__________
MARCH 5, 2014
__________
Serial No. 113-99
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Printed for the use of the Committee on Oversight and Government Reform
[GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
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http://www.house.gov/reform
_____
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COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM
DARRELL E. ISSA, California, Chairman
JOHN L. MICA, Florida ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland,
MICHAEL R. TURNER, Ohio Ranking Minority Member
JOHN J. DUNCAN, JR., Tennessee CAROLYN B. MALONEY, New York
PATRICK T. McHENRY, North Carolina ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of
JIM JORDAN, Ohio Columbia
JASON CHAFFETZ, Utah JOHN F. TIERNEY, Massachusetts
TIM WALBERG, Michigan WM. LACY CLAY, Missouri
JAMES LANKFORD, Oklahoma STEPHEN F. LYNCH, Massachusetts
JUSTIN AMASH, Michigan JIM COOPER, Tennessee
PAUL A. GOSAR, Arizona GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
PATRICK MEEHAN, Pennsylvania JACKIE SPEIER, California
SCOTT DesJARLAIS, Tennessee MATTHEW A. CARTWRIGHT,
TREY GOWDY, South Carolina Pennsylvania
BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas TAMMY DUCKWORTH, Illinois
DOC HASTINGS, Washington ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
CYNTHIA M. LUMMIS, Wyoming DANNY K. DAVIS, Illinois
ROB WOODALL, Georgia PETER WELCH, Vermont
THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky TONY CARDENAS, California
DOUG COLLINS, Georgia STEVEN A. HORSFORD, Nevada
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina MICHELLE LUJAN GRISHAM, New Mexico
KERRY L. BENTIVOLIO, Michigan Vacancy
RON DeSANTIS, Florida
Lawrence J. Brady, Staff Director
John D. Cuaderes, Deputy Staff Director
Stephen Castor, General Counsel
Linda A. Good, Chief Clerk
David Rapallo, Minority Staff Director
THE IRS: TARGETING AMERICANS FOR THEIR POLITICAL BELIEFS
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Wednesday, March 5, 2014
House of Representatives,
Committee on Oversight and Government Reform,
Washington, D.C.
The committee met, pursuant to call, at 9:33 a.m., in Room
2154, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Darrell E. Issa
[chairman of the committee] presiding.
Present: Representatives Issa, Mica, Turner, Duncan,
McHenry, Jordan, Walberg, Amash, Meehan, DesJarlais, Gowdy,
Farenthold, Hastings, Lummis, Massie, Meadows, Bentivolio,
DeSantis, Cummings, Maloney, Norton, Tierney, Lynch, Connolly,
Cartwright, Duckworth, Horsford, and Lujan Grisham.
Staff Present: Molly Boyl, Deputy General Counsel and
Parliamentarian; Lawrence J. Brady, Staff Director; David
Brewer, Senior Counsel; Sharon Casey, Senior Assistant Clerk;
Steve Castor, General Counsel; Drew Colliatie, Professional
Staff Member; John Cuaderes, Deputy Staff Director; Adam P.
Fromm, Director of Member Services and Committee Operations;
Linda Good, Chief Clerk; Tyler Grimm, Senior Professional Staff
Member; Frederick Hill, Deputy Staff Director for
Communications and Strategy; Christopher Hixon, Chief Counsel
for Oversight; Mark D. Marin, Deputy Staff Director for
Oversight; Ashok M. Pinto, Chief Counsel, Investigations; Katy
Rother, Counsel; Laura L. Rush, Deputy Chief Clerk; Jessica
Seale, Digital Director; Jonathan J. Skladany, Deputy General
Counsel; Rebecca Watkins, Communications Director; Meghan
Berroya, Minority Counsel; Aryele Bradford, Minority Press
Secretary; Susanne Sachsman Grooms, Minority Deputy Staff
Director/Chief Counsel; Jennifer Hoffman, Minority
Communications Director; Adam Koshkin, Minority Research
Assistant; Elisa LaNier, Minority Director of Operations; Juan
McCullum, Minority Clerk; Suzanne Owen, Minority Senior Policy
Advisor; Brian Quinn, Minority Counsel; Dave Rapallo, Minority
Staff Director; Donald Sherman, Minority Counsel; and Mark
Stephenson, Minority Director of Legislation.
Chairman Issa. The committee will come to order.
We are here today to continue a hearing that began on May
22nd, 2013, called ``The IRS Targeting Americans for Their
Political Beliefs.'' The purpose of the hearing is to gather
facts about how and why the IRS improperly scrutinized certain
organizations that applied for tax-exempt status.
Today, we have recalled Ms. Lois Lerner, the former
director of Exempt Organizations at the IRS. Ms. Lerner
appeared for the May 22nd, 2013, hearing under a subpoena, and
that subpoena remains in effect.
Before we resume our questioning, I am going to briefly
state for the record a few developments that have occurred
since the hearing began 9 months ago. These are important for
the record and for Ms. Lerner to know and understand.
On May 22nd, 2013, after being sworn in at the start of the
hearing, Ms. Lerner made a voluntary statement under oath
discussing her position at the IRS and professing her
innocence.
Ms. Lerner did not provide the committee with any advance
notification of her intention to make such a statement.
During her self-selected and entirely voluntary statement,
Ms. Lerner spoke in detail about core issues under
consideration at the hearing when she stated, ``I have not done
anything wrong. I have not broken any laws. I have not violated
any IRS rules or regulations, and I have not provided false
information to this or any other congressional committee.''
Ms. Lerner then stated her intention to invoke the Fifth
Amendment, and then, in response to a request by Ranking Member
Cummings, she confirmed orally the authenticity of a document
that was entered into the record. She subsequently re-invoked
her Fifth Amendment rights in response to several questions.
She then refused to provide any substantive response to those
questions.
At that hearing, a member of the committee, Mr. Gowdy,
stated that Ms. Lerner had waived her right to invoke the Fifth
Amendment because she had given a voluntary statement
professing her innocence.
I temporarily excused Ms. Lerner from the hearing and
subsequently recessed the hearing to consider whether Ms.
Lerner had in fact waived her Fifth Amendment rights.
Meanwhile, the committee's investigation proceeded without
Ms. Lerner's testimony. To date, we have conducted 33
bipartisan transcribed interviews of witnesses from the IRS. We
have heard witnesses' testimony during five committee and
subcommittee hearings.
Because the IRS has not fully cooperated with the
committee's investigation, I have issued three subpoenas for
documents. The IRS continues to withhold some of Ms. Lerner's
emails from the committee. Documents and testimony show that
Ms. Lerner is uniquely positioned to provide testimony that
will help the committee better understand how and why the IRS
targeted conservative groups.
At a business meeting on June 28, 2013, the committee
approved a resolution rejecting Ms. Lerner's claim of Fifth
Amendment privilege based on her waiver at the May 22nd, 2013.
After that vote, having made the determination that Ms.
Lerner waived her Fifth Amendment rights, the committee
recalled her to appear today to answer questions pursuant to
rules. The committee voted and found that Ms. Lerner waived her
Fifth Amendment rights by making a statement on May 22nd, 2013,
and additionally, by affirming documents after making a
statement of Fifth Amendment rights.
If Ms. Lerner continues to refuse to answer questions from
our members while she is under a subpoena, the committee may
proceed to consider whether she should be held in contempt.
Since it has been 9 and a half months since we started the
hearing, I am going to ask Ms. Lerner to please rise and take a
reaffirming oath pursuant to the committee rules.
Raise your right hand, please.
Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you are about to
give will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
truth?
Please be seated. Let the record indicate that the witness
did answer in the affirmative.
Ms. Lerner--put up slide 1, please.
On October 10--on October--in October 2010, you told a Duke
University group, and I quote, ``The Supreme Court dealt a huge
blow overturning a 100-year-old precedent that basically
corporations couldn't give directly to political campaigns. And
everyone is up in arms because they don't like it. The Federal
Election Commission can't do anything about it. They want the
IRS to fix the problem.''
Ms. Lerner, what exactly ``wanted to fix the problem caused
by Citizens United,'' what exactly does that mean?
Ms. Lerner. My counsel has advised me that I have not----
Chairman Issa. Would you please turn the mic on?
Ms. Lerner. Sorry. I don't know how.
My counsel has advised me that I have not waived my
constitutional rights under the Fifth Amendment, and on his
advice, I will decline to answer any question on the subject
matter of this hearing.
Chairman Issa. So, you are not going to tell us who wanted
to fix the problem caused by Citizens United?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, in February 2011, you emailed
your colleagues in the IRS the following: ``Tea Party matter,
very dangerous. This could be the vehicle to go to court on the
issue of whether Citizens United overturning the ban on
corporate spending applies to tax-exempt rules. Counsel and
Judy Kindell need to be on this one, please. Cincy should
probably NOT,'' all in caps, ``have these cases.''
What did you mean by ``Cincy should not have these cases''?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer the
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, why would you say Tea Party
cases were very dangerous?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, in September 2010, you emailed
your subordinates about initiating a, parenthesis, (c)(4)
project and wrote, ``We need to be cautious so that it isn't a
per se political project.''
Why were you worried about this being perceived as a
political project?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, Mike Seto, manager of EO
Technical in Washington, testified that you ordered Tea Party
cases to undergo a multi-tier review. He testified, and I
quote, ``She sent me email saying that when these cases need to
go through''--I say again--``she sent me email saying that when
these cases need to go through multi-tier review and they will
eventually have to go to Ms. Kindell and the Chief Counsel's
Office.''
Why did you order Tea Party cases to undergo a multi-tier
review?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, in June 2011, you requested that
Holly Paz obtain a copy of the tax-exempt application filed by
Crossroads GPS so that your senior technical advisor, Judy
Kindell, could review it and summarize the issues for you.
Ms. Lerner, why did you want to personally order that they
pull Crossroads GPS, Karl Rove's organization's application?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, in June 2012, you were part of
an email exchange that appeared to be about writing new
regulations on political speech for 501(c)(4) groups, and in
parenthesis, your quote, ``off plan'' in 2013.
Ms. Lerner, what does ``off plan'' mean?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, in February of 2014, President
Obama stated that there was not a smidgeon of corruption in the
IRS targeting.
Ms. Lerner, do you believe that there is not a smidgeon of
corruption in the IRS targeting of conservatives?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ms. Lerner, on Saturday, our committee's
general counsel sent an email to your attorney saying, ``I
understand that Ms. Lerner is willing to testify and she is
requesting a 1 week delay. In talking''--``in talking to the
chairman''--excuse me--``in talking to the chairman, wanted to
make sure that was right.'' Your lawyer, in response to that
question, gave a one word email response, ``yes.''
Are you still seeking a 1 week delay in order to testify?
Ms. Lerner. On the advice of my counsel, I respectfully
exercise my Fifth Amendment right and decline to answer that
question.
Chairman Issa. Ladies and gentlemen, seeking the truth is
the obligation of this committee. I can see no point in going
further. I have no expectation that Ms. Lerner will cooperate
with this committee, and therefore, we stand adjourned.
[Whereupon, at 9:45 a.m., the committee was adjourned.]