[House Hearing, 114 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] [H.A.S.C. No. 114-137] VIEWS ON H.R. 4298, VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT; AND H.R. 5458, VETERANS TRICARE CHOICE ACT __________ HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL OF THE COMMITTEE ON ARMED SERVICES HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FOURTEENTH CONGRESS SECOND SESSION __________ HEARING HELD SEPTEMBER 8, 2016 [GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] __________ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 22-455 WASHINGTON : 2017 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office, http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center, U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free). E-mail, [email protected]. SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL JOSEPH J. HECK, Nevada, Chairman WALTER B. JONES, North Carolina SUSAN A. DAVIS, California JOHN KLINE, Minnesota ROBERT A. BRADY, Pennsylvania MIKE COFFMAN, Colorado NIKI TSONGAS, Massachusetts THOMAS MacARTHUR, New Jersey, Vice JACKIE SPEIER, California Chair TIMOTHY J. WALZ, Minnesota ELISE M. STEFANIK, New York BETO O'ROURKE, Texas PAUL COOK, California STEPHEN KNIGHT, California Jeanette James, Professional Staff Member Craig Greene, Professional Staff Member Colin Bosse, Clerk C O N T E N T S ---------- Page STATEMENTS PRESENTED BY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS Davis, Hon. Susan A., a Representative from California, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Military Personnel..................... 1 Heck, Hon. Joseph J., a Representative from Nevada, Chairman, Subcommittee on Military Personnel............................. 1 WITNESSES Amodei, Hon. Mark E., a Representative in Congress from the State of Nevada...................................................... 2 Hallinan, Patrick K., Executive Director, Arlington National Cemetery....................................................... 4 Hesselbein, Bob, Chairman, Legacy Committee, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association............................................. 5 Secord, Bill, Legislative Affairs Chairman, Air Line Pilots Association.................................................... 11 APPENDIX Prepared Statements: Amodei, Hon. Mark E.......................................... 21 Hallinan, Patrick K.......................................... 24 Heck, Hon. Joseph J.......................................... 19 Hesselbein, Bob.............................................. 30 Secord, Bill................................................. 35 Documents Submitted for the Record: Statement of The National Association for Uniformed Services. 45 Witness Responses to Questions Asked During the Hearing: Dr. Heck..................................................... 51 Questions Submitted by Members Post Hearing: [There were no Questions submitted post hearing.] VIEWS ON H.R. 4298, VIETNAM HELICOPTER CREW MEMORIAL ACT; AND H.R. 5458, VETERANS TRICARE CHOICE ACT ---------- House of Representatives, Committee on Armed Services, Subcommittee on Military Personnel, Washington, DC, Thursday, September 8, 2016. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 3:33 p.m., in room 2118, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Joseph J. Heck (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. OPENING STATEMENT OF HON. JOSEPH J. HECK, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM NEVADA, CHAIRMAN, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL Dr. Heck. Good afternoon. Today's subcommittee meets to hear testimony on two important but very diverse subjects, the eligibility of TRICARE beneficiaries to enroll in health savings accounts, or HSAs, and the placement of a memorial within Arlington National Cemetery [ANC] to honor helicopter pilots and crew members who died while flying in combat in Vietnam. I want to thank Representative Mark Amodei from my home State of Nevada and Representative Chris Stewart from Utah for introducing H.R. 4298, the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act, and H.R. 5458, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act, respectively. I appreciate your support for our service members and retirees and for your willingness to honor those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. I welcome both of you here today. We will have two panels. The first to discuss the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act, and the second to discuss the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act. I am interested in hearing from our witnesses today, their views on each of these bills as they have been introduced in the House of Representatives. With that, I want to welcome our witnesses. I look forward to their testimony. And before I introduce our panel, I would like to offer ranking member, Mrs. Davis, from San Diego, an opportunity to make any opening remarks. [The prepared statement of Dr. Heck can be found in the Appendix on page 19.] STATEMENT OF HON. SUSAN A. DAVIS, A REPRESENTATIVE FROM CALIFORNIA, RANKING MEMBER, SUBCOMMITTEE ON MILITARY PERSONNEL Mrs. Davis. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And just very briefly, I certainly want to welcome our witnesses as well. The two issues that we have before us today are not as easy to address as one might believe, weighing the decision to create a commemorative monument against when, at the same time, we are ensuring states of future burials in Arlington National Cemetery is not an issue to be taken lightly. We are also discussing another important topic today, to allow those eligible for TRICARE to also be eligible for health savings accounts. Both policy decisions could have positive and negative impacts, as just about everything we do does. It is never simple, right? I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on both of these issues and working together to find solutions. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Heck. Thank you, Mrs. Davis. At this time, without objection, I ask unanimous consent that an additional statement from the National Association of Uniformed Services be included in the record of this hearing. Without objection, so ordered. [The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on page 45.] Dr. Heck. We will try to go as quickly but as effectively as we can before they call votes. As you have all been informed, we are probably going to have a vote series that will interrupt this hearing. So I will welcome our first panel. The Honorable Mark E. Amodei of the second district of Nevada; Mr. Patrick Hallinan, executive director for Arlington National Cemetery; and Mr. Bob Hesselbein, chairman, Legacy Committee, Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. With that, Mr. Amodei, you have 5 minutes. Hit your button. STATEMENT OF HON. MARK E. AMODEI, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF NEVADA Mr. Amodei. Hi. On this mike in front of you. For your record, Mark Amodei from the second district of Nevada. I understand the primary mission of ANC. The staff has been outstanding to work with. I have learned a lot in two visits to ANC to find out what is going on with ANC in terms of its history, present operations, expansion plans, and what they plan to do in the future. I understand that the primary mission of ANC is to conduct burials. But when you look at what the legislation says that was passed by this House, it says that is the primary mission, and you are going to hear about that, and there is no dispute about that here today. But there is nothing in the legislation that says you can't have memorials at ANC. And, quite frankly, when you look at the history, in the last 27 years, there have been four memorials constructed at ANC. So many times you hear the argument, well, oh my God, if we let this one in, they are all coming in. The bar is pretty high, and it should be very high. But I got to tell you, ANC is a phenomenal and unique national treasure. This application is a phenomenal and unique memorial request. This is not somebody with somebody's favorite unit or whatever and, hey, we want to do this or that. This is almost 10 percent of the casualties in the helicopter war. Let me repeat that. Almost 10 percent of the casualties in the helicopter war. And that is not just pilots and crew members. That is medics and, by the way, it is all branches of service: Air Force, Marine Corps, Army, Navy, medics, crew members, crew chiefs. And so when you look at this and you say, is there no application that is worthy? Indeed, it is interesting to note that the advisory committee tied on this issue. It was 3-3. One member was absent. So they sent it up to the executive director and to the Secretary of the Army, and they made their call. And with due respect, it is like I understand that. But my concern, and the reason for introducing the legislation, which I didn't do lightly, is my fear is that we have a de facto standard if these folks can't make it, helicopter casualties in the helicopter war, 10 percent. And I won't steal the colonel's thunder here. If this isn't worthy--and, by the way, Mr. Chairman, with your permission, I have a visual aid. As you can see, this is a very expensive visual aid. Members of the committee, this is 5 square feet. And you said, gee, that is a nice visual aid there, Mr. Amodei. That is what they have asked for, 5 square feet. That is a thousand casualties per square foot, if you want to look at it that way. Four of these in 25 years. That could be the fifth one, and who knows when the next one is. That is not the sort of thing that is going to crowd out burials at ANC. And I would remind you, when you look at that legislation again, primary mission, no doubt about it, 10 percent of the casualties, 5 square feet. There are areas that are unsuitable for graves. So what these folks are asking for--and listen, this is one of the few times I can say it anymore, I am too young to have said, you know, I served in Vietnam, thankfully. It is one of the few things I am too young for. But you grew up with that war on TV. It was the first TV war, too, probably. And so you look at that, and as you think about people in your communities, as you think about medics, as you think about Air Force people, as you think about Army people, Navy people, Marine Corps folks, how many people's names aren't on that wall down the street because these folks were around doing their job? So I would submit to you, ANC is a national treasure. This is a unique request that the advisory committee tied on. And so here we are saying, hey, you know what, let's really make sure we take a good look at this, because this is a pretty worthy cause. The request is for that much. We ought to be able to find 5 square feet for something special for nearly 5,000 casualties in the helicopter war for people who died on those. And so with that, I would just say, a working standard that doesn't allow a worthy application to make that grade is a working standard, quite frankly, that needs a little bit of help. Because the answer shouldn't start with no. It should be, you have got a very high standard to meet, and if you meet it, though, we will give you that much square feet. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I yield back. [The prepared statement of Mr. Amodei can be found in the Appendix on page 21.] Dr. Heck. Thank you, Congressman Amodei. Next, we will hear from Mr. Hallinan. STATEMENT OF PATRICK K. HALLINAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ARLINGTON NATIONAL CEMETERY Mr. Hallinan. Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to provide the Department of the Army's views on the Vietnam Helicopter Memorial Act. Arlington National Cemetery is our Nation's unique and iconic resting place devoted to those individuals who made a significant sacrifice and commitment to the defense of our country in the armed services. Arlington National Cemetery is recognized as a national treasure and is an active military cemetery, interring over 7,000 individuals annually. Since 1864, these hallowed grounds have been the final resting place for more than 400,000 Active Duty service members, veterans, and their family. It is our duty and the United States Army's commitment to ensure Arlington National Cemetery remains an active cemetery as long as space accommodations allow us to honor those who have served our Nation in the military. On behalf of the cemetery and the Department of the Army, I express our appreciation for the support that Congress has provided over the years. Current law directs Arlington National Cemetery to preserve space not conducive to ground burial of human remains for the memorialization of individual service members whose remains are missing, never recovered, scattered, or buried at sea. Over the past 25 years, as the Congressman pointed out, only four monuments have been approved and installed in Arlington National Cemetery. The two most recent being in 2002 and 2011, the Battle of the Bulge and the Jewish Chaplains Memorial, respectively, each of which were authorized through congressional legislation. The proposed Vietnam Helicopter Crew Memorial Act legislation, as drafted, would direct the Secretary of the Army to place in Arlington National Cemetery a monument honoring the helicopter pilots and crew members of the Vietnam era, and for other purposes. This legislation does not address the broader concerns of preserving the life of the cemetery well into the future. By virtue of longstanding Army policy and rulemaking, commemorative monuments may only be placed in Arlington Cemetery after a collaborative and deliberative process. Monuments reduce land that would otherwise be used for burial memorialization of our killed in action [KIA], deceased on Active Duty service members, veterans, and their eligible family members. The initial request from the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association was processed in accordance with the 2012 National Defense Authorization Act and public law. The appropriate congressional oversight committees were notified of the Secretary of the Army's decision to disprove the request for a commemorative monument. In its stead, he did approve the placement of a plaque at the base of a living tree. While other veteran's organizations have had their request for tree plaques disapproved in order to preserve space at the cemetery, the Secretary chose to allow a tree plaque honoring those members of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association. Given the present rate of burials and the dwindling inventory of available gravesites and niches, Arlington National Cemetery will close for first interments or inurnments in the 2030s. The reality is space is finite. Each year, ground burial is denied to veterans whose service does not rise to the level to justify displacement of eligible veterans. Additionally, under current eligibility, any future casualties of our Nation--excuse me. Each ground burial is denied current veterans justify displacement of an eligible--additionally, any current eligible future casualty our Nation sustains after 2030s may find space not available at Arlington National Cemetery for those who pay the ultimate sacrifice, our killed- in-action service members. Arlington National Cemetery is devoted to ensuring the most important memorials are placed in our hallowed grounds. Those are the individual government headstones marking the resting places of the veterans who have served and sacrificed their life in service to our Nation. We are responsible for ensuring commemoration in perpetuity, as established by law. Maintaining individual memorialization of those who have earned a place at Arlington is the most important responsibility we as a Nation hold at Arlington National Cemetery. This was the key consideration for the cemetery staff and the advisory committee of Arlington National Cemetery when they reviewed and made their recommendation to the Secretary of the Army. His thoughtful and detailed review found the same and resulted in his decision. The Army understands the general intent of the legislation to honor these veterans and their service. However, as stewards of our most hallowed military burial grounds, Arlington National Cemetery must diligently preserve the land, which is ultimately designated for the sole purpose of providing the final resting place for our heroes who were killed in action, Active Duty service members, veterans, and their eligible family members. Any structure, commemorative or utilitarian in nature, that diverts from the expressed mission should be placed in other locations suitable for their representation. Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, this concludes my testimony. I will gladly respond to any questions you or the subcommittee may have. [The prepared statement of Mr. Hallinan can be found in the Appendix on page 24.] Dr. Heck. Thank you, Mr. Hallinan. And I think we will probably have time to get through Mr. Hesselbein's opening statement and then we will come back for questions. So Mr. Hesselbein, you are recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF BOB HESSELBEIN, CHAIRMAN, LEGACY COMMITTEE, VIETNAM HELICOPTER PILOTS ASSOCIATION Mr. Hesselbein. Thank you, Chairman Heck, Ranking Member Davis, and other distinguished members of the committee. It is a privilege to be here today to speak not only on behalf of the Vietnam Helicopter Pilots Association but also the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Members Association to speak in favor of H.R. 4298, the Vietnam Helicopter Crew Member Memorial. We currently are over 10,000 members strong in our two organizations, and we achieve membership by a difficult manner. We are from all branches of service. The commonality, we served the Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, and Coast Guard. We earned our membership as combat helicopter pilots and crew members in the Vietnam War, the war as you have heard already described as the helicopter war. I can also say I speak informally for the many Gold Star families who still mourn the loss of their husband, their son, or brother killed while operating a rotary- wing aircraft in Southeast Asia from 1961 to 1975. We know why we want to honor those in Arlington National Cemetery. We want to make sure that we clarify that this memorial is to honor those who died, the almost 5,000. Some 41 years after the end of the Vietnam War, we are still without a single memorial in the Nation that honors the all-service commitment and dedication, the last full measure that approximately 5,000 rotary-wing pilots, crew chiefs, medics, and door gunners gave during the conflict. And many, might I add, who are buried right now in Arlington National Cemetery. I would like to remind you that during the Vietnam War, the helicopter became the mainstay for joint operational mobility. 12,000 helicopters, 12,000 helicopters were used by all military services, Army, Navy, Marines, and Air Force, and of those, over 5,000--5,086, were destroyed by enemy fire or mishaps related to the missions they did. The losses because of this incredible mission that they flew were also great: 2,002 pilots killed, 2,704 nonpilot crew members died, and at least 532 United States military passengers perished; 9 percent. We don't have a good number on how many Vietnamese that were carried on our helicopters died while being passengers being medevac'd or being resupplied. We have no numbers on that. But we can say roughly 9 percent of the 58,307 Vietnamese war casualties died in the helicopters. The helicopters and the brave crews who operated these machines stand as the iconic symbol of the Vietnam War. Virtually all writings, documentaries, and films of the war include remembrances of combat helicopters because they were ubiquitous to the experience of that war. Despite the Vietnam War being described as the helicopter war, and the UH-1 Iroquois Huey being recognized as the symbol of the war, as I must say again, no specific memorial exists anywhere strictly honoring their sacrifice. Individual branches do have memorials, such as the United States Army Aviation Museum at Fort Rucker that named 4,347 aviation casualties, but no one memorial remembers them all. No military cemetery to this day possesses a memorial specifically dedicated to those who died in helicopter losses in Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos. No other cemetery, however, provides a superior location to Arlington National Cemetery. And frankly, it is a logical place to honor those who flew and died in the war. ANC holds the remains of many individual pilots and crew members who were immediately interred during the war. Incidentally, some 20 percent of all casualties who came to be buried during the war that were buried at Arlington National Cemetery, 20 percent of those are helicopter pilots and crew members. One-fifth of all those who died in the war that were buried at Arlington were helicopter pilots and crew members. And incidentally, it is the only military cemetery that holds the recovered remains of missing-in-action [MIA] crews and others. Section 60 has whole crew members. They call them commingled remains, but they are all at Arlington National Cemetery. And also incidentally, those of you sitting in this room, many of us will also be buried in Arlington National Cemetery, helicopter pilots, members, and such. I would like to say one thing about the cemetery. You know, it holds symbolic value held nowhere else. If New York City is the heart of the Nation's finances, if Washington, D.C., is the heart of the political place, then Arlington National Cemetery is the heart of our military conscience. It is where we go to remember the cost of the war. It is where we go to see our fallen warriors. And for us veterans of war, it is the place we go to visit our young friends who died in combat. If you look at this memorial, it is designed to blend in with the aesthetic of Arlington National Cemetery and to reflect what the commingled remains look like in their mixed graves, combined remains, all having one stone, much like that. If you look at it, it is a Huey approaching, it is approaching a safe place. The machine guns are stowed, because they are coming to a place of safety. Below, we have five shields for the branches of service, because every branch of service, to include the Coast Guard, has aviators and crew members buried in Arlington National Cemetery who died during the war. And in the center, the simple words, some taken from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, express our feelings for their loss. And I would like to say, it is all going to be done at private expense. We will pay to have it built. We will pay to have it installed, and we have set aside the funds, and we have the funds to have a lifelong trust set up for this thing. Now, there are voices who say Arlington can't accept additional memorials and all unused ground must be reserved for future graves, but there are places in Arlington National Cemetery that will never have graves. There are utility lines. There are tree roots that can't take 6 feet or 8 feet of digging, but they can certainly take a memorial such as this that only goes about a foot and a half into the ground. It is suitable. Some fear also, fear as we have said before, that it will result in a flood of legislation. Well, that is simply not held true, as we discussed. Two legislations, and of those two, only one was a combat recognition for men who died during the Battle of the Bulge and women who died in the Battle of the Bulge. That was 14 years ago. And also the reason there won't be another flood--and I will only take 1 minute of your time, with your permission, sir--is that the average age of the veterans of Vietnam is now 72. I am the youngest. I was a 19-year-old gunship pilot in 1972, and I am 64 years old today. You won't have many veterans groups coming to you seeking more memorials, because simply, we are dying. We will be dead soon. We are not asking for something new. As Executive Director Hallinan spoke, we have been authorized about a foot and a half. A foot and a half for a small tree marker. Well, we looked at the tree markers, 142, and we found most of those are not significant to the casualties or a 13-year war. They are for smaller events and smaller groups, all worthy but not to the magnitude of this loss and this amount of time. We have a foot and a half of space now. We would like five. And we ask you, representing the people of the United States, to help us with this. We ask you to abide to this and pass bill H.R. 4298. Thank you for listening to my witness testimony. [The prepared statement of Mr. Hesselbein can be found in the Appendix on page 30.] Dr. Heck. I would like to thank all our witnesses. We will stand in recess until we reconvene after the votes. [Recess.] Dr. Heck. Okay. We will reconvene the hearing and take up questions. I will begin and put me on the clock for 5 minutes. Mr. Hallinan, in your testimony, you know, you raised the issue, rightfully so, of the diminishing space for interments. Just for my edification, how many square--how many acres does Arlington occupy? Mr. Hallinan. Mr. Chairman, Arlington presently occupies 624 acres. Dr. Heck. Okay. And of those 624, do you know how many acres are not suitable for interments? Mr. Hallinan. I would have to take it as a do up to get an estimate for you, sir, an accurate estimate. But just about every space in Arlington that we look at, if it is not suitable for burial space, it is very important to keep in mind that it is suitable for an MA [memorial area] marker, a memorial marker, so those airmen and those marines and those other combat people missing that have never been recovered, we can put a memorial marker in those spaces for their families. So it serves a purpose, and we look at that very critically, sir. Dr. Heck. And how big are those markers? Mr. Hallinan. Well, the markers themselves, they are just standing upright headstone markers, but they can fit in a 4- or 5-foot space. Dr. Heck. Okay. So not as much--so the same headstone, just not on the amount of space required for an interment? Mr. Hallinan. Correct, sir. Dr. Heck. Okay. So I would appreciate it if you would get back with how much space is not suitable for burial. [The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on page 51.] Dr. Heck. And so for all the space, then, that is not suitable, you hold that in reserve for one of these other markers. Is that correct, that is the current operating procedure? Mr. Hallinan. Correct. We look at it as future potential for MA markers, memorial markers. Dr. Heck. Okay. Do you know how many of those markers have been placed? Mr. Hallinan. I will take it as a do up, sir. [The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on page 51.] Dr. Heck. Okay. And how many monuments that honor groups of individuals who serve in a particular war conflict are located in Arlington? Mr. Hallinan. I would have take that as a do up, Mr. Chairman, to answer your question specifically how many are actually for a unit or for a battle, because there are so many different types of monuments at Arlington. [The information referred to can be found in the Appendix on page 51.] Dr. Heck. Okay. All right. And, Mr. Hesselbein, is there a particular location that you have requested the memorial be placed inside of ANC, or are you just asking for a location at the selection of the Secretary of the Army and Arlington officials? Mr. Hesselbein. We appreciate the opportunity to have our memorial placed in Arlington National Cemetery. We were asked to offer some ideas of where we thought it would be appropriate, and there are certain areas near section 60 that are suitable, section 66. And also, the new parts of Arlington National Cemetery that will be expanding soon, where Henderson Hall space has been given up. There will be no memorials there whatsoever. And that would be certainly an attractive area to sort of I don't want to say add to it, but place memorials more than just the graves. Dr. Heck. And other than those locations, if ANC came back and said, hey, we understand you like 60, 66, or maybe where the expansion is, but we have this? Mr. Hesselbein. I think our--our primary goal is to get a memorial within Arlington National Cemetery, and we know the staff would be very conscientious in trying to place it in an appropriate place. And, frankly, we would not come to this meeting and tell them, demand where they want it to be, because we know they would be sensitive and put it in an appropriate location. Dr. Heck. Okay. Thank you. I have no further questions. Mrs. Davis. Mrs. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, all, for your thoughtfulness around this. Mr. Hallinan, you know, as we look at this issue, I wonder--it seems, you know, maybe pretty logical and reasonable to do that, and yet I know that in the position that you are in, you have to be thinking far enough ahead. And one of the suggestions I--you know, and I appreciate Mr. Hesselbein saying that, well, we are kind of giving the issue of where this might be if, in fact, there were this kind of memorial and perhaps others that are raised to the standard that this would be as well. Can you think of areas where, in fact, something like that might be appropriate and perhaps it would be more than one kind of memorial along those lines, different from the memorials that have already been discussed in tree plaques and other things like that? Mr. Hallinan. The space, as I mentioned in my written statement, is finite. And we are all looking towards the future and keeping space available. As we look towards the future expansion, and as my colleague here speaks about Henderson Hall, we are really expanding at a millennium project, which is away from Henderson Hall. When you look, any space that we would designate for that purpose could still be used in the future for a burial or for a memorial marker for someone that is missing. So that is really the issue. And I understand that, hey, it is only 5 feet, but 5 feet is a grave site. Five feet is an eligible veteran not being interred when the family has need. And I also understand the importance of monuments. And, Mr. Chairman, we have 451 group markers, my staff has let me know, in answer to your question. But the most important monument at that cemetery are the individual headstones that talk about that person and their service to the Nation. Whether it is the branch of service they are in, the war conflict they were in, that is the most important monument. So we understand the request for monuments. We have other requests pending. We have five pending requests for additional monuments at Arlington now, and to try to balance the desires and needs of the various organizations, with our primary mission, that is the really difficult question you pointed out. That is a difficult issue. Our primary mission is to make sure that we can honor those who have passed and those we have not recovered. And so we---- Mrs. Davis. Thank you. Mr. Hallinan [continuing]. We are protective of the space. Mrs. Davis. I appreciate that. Mr. Hesselbein, I actually spoke to Mr. Amodei just very briefly, just thinking about other possibilities or considerations. I understand Arlington National Cemetery obviously is sacred to all of us. So I have had such moving experiences at the Vietnam Memorial, and I wonder whether that was something that you all had thought about or considered? Mr. Hesselbein. That is a wonderful question. We looked at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial location. There are two additional memorials in there. Then Congress passed a bill literally saying that it would have to come to them. There is incredible inertia against placing any new memorials upon the National Mall. In particular, there is great resistance, in addition to that, to placing any other additional memorials around the Vietnam Veterans Memorial itself. So we felt that also Arlington, with a great number of casualties, the great number of helicopter pilots who died and crew members who died that are buried there, that is the place to have this. If you haven't been to section 60, go there and look at all the large gray marble slabs of MIA crews being brought home, several crews last year, and they keep coming to Arlington, and that is the place that we would like to see our friends, our brothers, remembered. Mrs. Davis. Yeah. All right. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Heck. Mr. Coffman. Mr. Coffman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Congressman Amodei, for bringing this issue forward. I was in the Army but too late for Vietnam. I did come in in 1972, but when I came out of the pipeline, they weren't sending any ground troops to Vietnam anymore. And I later transferred to the Marine Corps and then left Active Duty. And an assignment I had as reservist at one time was to go through the files of those missing in action in Vietnam from Colorado and contact the families and give them an update. Well, there really wasn't much of an update. It was just--but the Marine Corps felt that they wanted to have--maintain strong communications with the family. So even though there wasn't new information, that there was a requirement to contact the families of those missing in action. In going through the files from--and I can't remember what the total number was, probably--I know there was more than 20. And I would say they were all aviation accidents--or aviation incidents, save one that was the Mayaguez incident where there were some--there were marines that were not accounted for in the evacuation of the U.S. citizens on the Mayaguez post- Vietnam in the aftermath of our involvement in the Vietnam War. But I--you know, it would be, like, helicopter went down South China Sea, bodies not recovered. And so I think that to me, this monument represents those who are--you know, in very high casualties, I think you said, 10 percent of the casualties in Vietnam. And as a first Gulf War in Iraq war veteran, when I compare the casualties of Vietnam to the casualties that we faced, I mean, quite frankly, they were losing during the height of the--1967, 1968, 1969. They averaged a thousand killed in action a month in the war in Vietnam, which is extraordinary. So I just feel that this--and the fact is that air mobility was central to the war and to prosecuting the war in Vietnam. And so I think that it is fitting that we have a memorial specific to that in Arlington. So I would ask to be put down as a cosponsor on your bill. I suppose that is not normal to do that during the hearing, but I thank you so much for bringing this forward. I yield back, Mr. Chairman. Dr. Heck. Okay. Well, I thank all the witnesses for your testimony today. We will take the matter under advisement and see if there is a path forward. So we will end the first panel, and then we will change out and bring the second panel up to discuss Mr. Stewart's bill, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act. [Recess.] Dr. Heck. All right. We will go ahead and move into our second panel. This one on Mr. Stewart's bill, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act, which tries to open up TRICARE members to be able to participate in health savings accounts. We have but one witness, Mr. Bill Secord, a legislative affairs chairman for the Airline Pilots Association. Mr. Secord, you are recognized for 5 minutes. STATEMENT OF BILL SECORD, LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS CHAIRMAN, AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION Mr. Secord. Thank you, sir. I would like to thank you and Ranking Member Davis and the distinguished members of this subcommittee for inviting me today. I would also like to thank the Military Personnel Subcommittee staff, and especially Jeanette James, for their substantive work to improve H.R. 5458. I am pleased to testify in support of H.R. 5458, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act. It is truly an honor to represent not only the many veterans within our association, but all of our Nation's veterans and their families, who have made such large sacrifices to protect our way of life. Upon entering military service, every Active Duty, reservist, and National Guardsman is enrolled in the Defense Enrollment Eligibility Reporting System, or DEERS. When the service member retires, he or she remains in DEERS and becomes immediately eligible for TRICARE benefits. Under section 223 of the Internal Revenue Code, a simple TRICARE eligibility precludes that military retiree from making contributions to or receiving employer contributions to an HRA--excuse me--an HSA, health savings account. The genesis of the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act came about during the FedEx pilot group's latest round of contract negotiations in 2014. Our healthcare experts proposed a high deductible healthcare plan with HSA, which would save our corporation money and also protect the pilots' healthcare benefits. But while conducting additional research, we realized that the TRICARE-eligible pilots would not be allowed to participate in the HSA portion of the plan, because as I stated earlier, TRICARE is not HSA compliant under the Internal Revenue Code. We further realized that the negative consequences would not only impact our members but also could impact millions of our Nation's veterans that are TRICARE eligible. We brought this to Congressman Chris Stewart's attention, himself a B-1 bomber pilot for the Air Force. And in a great example of interservice support and bipartisanship, he joined forces with Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard, who currently serves as a major in the Army, in the Hawaii Army National Guard, and with that, the Veterans TRICARE Choice Act was introduced. This legislation solves the problem of a TRICARE-eligible individual's inability to participate in an HSA by allowing the individual to voluntarily pause his or her TRICARE benefits in DEERS. During this period, the individual could participate in their employer's healthcare plan and HSA, the same as their civilian coworker. At any point in the future, if the individual decided that his or her TRICARE benefits would be a better fit, he or she could elect to return to TRICARE during an annual open enrollment period or upon a qualifying life event. The seamless transition back to TRICARE is made possible because the military retiree's information is retained in DEERS. This bill gives TRICARE-eligible individuals the flexibility to best care for their families and ensures them the same access to healthcare benefits that their civilian counterparts have. Now, some might argue that access to a health reimbursement account, or HRA, provides the same benefit as an HSA. While it is a similar benefit, there are some important differences. A health reimbursement account is just that, it is an account for reimbursement. It is an employer-controlled account funded only by the employer to reimburse the employee for approved medical expenses. An HSA, however, is an account that is employee controlled, that the employer and employee may deposit money into together. In 2016, an individual with family coverage may have up to $6,750 deposited in an HSA, with an additional $1,000 for those 55 years of age and older. Assuming current contribution limits, a military retiree who retires at 40 would potentially have $178,750 deposited into an HSA over a 25-year period. This is money that can be invested and used for any future medical expense tax free. This legislation is a commonsense solution to ensure that our veterans have access to the same healthcare options offered by their employers to their civilian coworkers, and it gives them the flexibility to make the best choices for their family's healthcare needs. I thank you for your time and for your support of H.R. 5458, and I look forward to your questions. [The prepared statement of Mr. Secord can be found in the Appendix on page 35.] Dr. Heck. All right. Thank you. So let me make sure I kind of--I am going to walk through a hypothetical timeline and you tell me how this works. So somebody enlisted at the age of 18, they retire after 20. At 38, they are TRICARE eligible, but they opt not to take their TRICARE benefits because instead they are going to take another employee-based plan as a high deductible HSA-based plan. But in order to do that currently, they have to opt out of TRICARE, which they cannot do? Mr. Secord. Correct. Yeah, they currently cannot do that because they are not eligible for the HSA. Dr. Heck. And then at some point in the future, let's say they get to 65 and now they decide they want to go TRICARE For Life, they come back in--or if they leave that one employer, you know, and go someplace to another employer that doesn't offer the same high deductible HSA plan, they can come back into TRICARE? Mr. Secord. Yes, sir. Dr. Heck. So from your perspective, then, what would be-- what do you see as the most tangible benefit of allowing the military retirees to be able to opt out of TRICARE to purchase the high deductible plan with the HSA? Mr. Secord. Simple choice. It gives them the same options that their civilian coworkers have. I never had the honor of serving, but I think that a veteran should have every option that I do in our healthcare choices. Dr. Heck. Any estimate of how many military retirees? I mean, has there been a survey or anything that has been done to look at how many people might be interested in taking advantage of this option? Mr. Secord. No, sir, there are no numbers. Dr. Heck. I have no further questions. Mrs. Davis. Mrs. Davis. Thank you for being here and for presenting it. Do we have any idea of how this would score? Mr. Secord. Yes, ma'am. And I will quote the CBO [Congressional Budget Office] cost estimate. It said, quote, ``CBO estimates that the effects on direct spending and spending subject to appropriation would be insignificant in any year and in total--in any year and in total over the 2017 to 2026 time period.'' So insignificant. Mrs. Davis. Insignificant. Because it seems as if there would certainly be a hit, but maybe there are so few people that would be involved. Is that why? Mr. Secord. That would be--I mean, I could speculate that-- speculation, my guess would be that it would not be a large portion of veterans that would participate, but yes. Mrs. Davis. If beneficiaries were required to actively enroll in TRICARE, regardless if it was Prime or Standard to be eligible, would that alleviate the problem---- Mr. Secord. No, ma'am. Mrs. Davis [continuing]. For those with high deductible? Mr. Secord. I'm sorry, could you ask the question again? Mrs. Davis. If the beneficiaries were required to actively enroll in TRICARE, regardless if it was Prime or Standard to be eligible, would that then alleviate the problem for those with high deductible health insurance plans offered by their employer? Mr. Secord. No, ma'am. Regardless of the TRICARE benefit that they have, they are not eligible under TRICARE. Mrs. Davis. Okay. They wouldn't be eligible? Mr. Secord. No, ma'am. Mrs. Davis. Okay. Thank you. I am still trying to get it. Thank you. Dr. Heck. So just because they are--even though they are not on TRICARE, they are retired, they are not using their TRICARE benefit, but just because they have the marker of being TRICARE eligible, under IRS [Internal Revenue Service] rules they are not able to use a high deductible HSA plan? Mr. Secord. Yes, sir. Dr. Heck. Okay. Mr. Coffman. Mr. Coffman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Do we--so this hasn't been scored in terms of the actual cost of this, not to DOD [Department of Defense], but to Treasury? Mr. Secord. All I have is what I read, just that CBO estimates that it is insignificant in the 10-year period. I don't have any---- Mr. Coffman. I don't see why those--I am on TRICARE. Mr. Secord. Sure. Mr. Coffman. But I didn't come on until age 60 because I have a Reserve retirement. But for those people on Active Duty, they will come off--you know, they can be 40, they can be as young as--well, they can be as young as 38. But probably the average age for somebody serving 20 years would probably be around 42, 43, 44 years old. And so, you know, if they don't want to take the benefit of TRICARE, if they want to delay that benefit and go with an HSA, they ought to be able to do that, I would think. Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Dr. Heck. All right. Well, as the sole witness, we appreciate your being here today to present on the bill. We will take it under advisement and see if there is a path forward. Mr. Secord. Thank you, sir. Dr. Heck. There being no further business before the committee, we stand adjourned. [Whereupon, at 4:45 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] ======================================================================= A P P E N D I X September 8, 2016 ======================================================================= PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD September 8, 2016 ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ======================================================================= DOCUMENTS SUBMITTED FOR THE RECORD September 8, 2016 ======================================================================= [GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] ======================================================================= WITNESS RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS ASKED DURING THE HEARING September 8, 2016 ======================================================================= RESPONSES TO QUESTIONS SUBMITTED BY DR. HECK Mr. Hallinan. Of the 624 acres at Arlington National Cemetery (ANC), 534 acres are dedicated to above ground or in ground burials. Approximately 90 acres are not currently suitable for burials due to current infrastructure (Roads, Sidewalks and facilities) and existing cultural resources (Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, Memorial and Tanner Amphitheaters, Section 29 Arlington Woods forest and numerous other points of interest). In accordance with Public Law 112-154 codified in Title 38 USC Sec 2409, the Secretary of the Army is to set aside, when available, suitable areas at ANC to honor the memory of members of the Armed Forces and veterans-- (1) who are missing in action; (2) whose remains have not been recovered or identified; (3) whose remains were buried at sea, whether by the member's or veteran's own choice or otherwise; (4) whose remains were donated to science; or (5) whose remains were cremated and whose ashes were scattered without interment of any portion of the ashes. [See page 8.] Mr. Hallinan. As of September 8, 2016 there are 2,857 individuals commemorated on memorial markers (government upright white headstones with ``in memory of'' on the stone). [See page 8.] Mr. Hallinan. As of September 8, 2016 there are 451 group markers located in Arlington National Cemetery. These mark graves containing co-mingled human remains of service members killed in multiple death incidents in action with the enemy. [See page 9.] [all]