[House Hearing, 115 Congress] [From the U.S. Government Publishing Office] FAST ACT IMPLEMENTATION: STATE AND LOCAL PERSPECTIVES ======================================================================= (115-10) HEARING BEFORE THE SUBCOMMITTEE ON HIGHWAYS AND TRANSIT OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION __________ APRIL 5, 2017 __________ Printed for the use of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] Available online at: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/browse/ committee.action?chamber=house&committee=transportation ______ U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE 24-912 PDF WASHINGTON : 2017 ----------------------------------------------------------------------- For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800 Fax: (202) 512-2104 Mail: Stop IDCC, Washington, DC 20402-0001 COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORTATION AND INFRASTRUCTURE BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania, Chairman DON YOUNG, Alaska PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee, ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of Vice Chair Columbia FRANK A. LoBIONDO, New Jersey JERROLD NADLER, New York SAM GRAVES, Missouri EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas DUNCAN HUNTER, California ELIJAH E. CUMMINGS, Maryland ERIC A. ``RICK'' CRAWFORD, Arkansas RICK LARSEN, Washington LOU BARLETTA, Pennsylvania MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California BOB GIBBS, Ohio DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois DANIEL WEBSTER, Florida STEVE COHEN, Tennessee JEFF DENHAM, California ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky JOHN GARAMENDI, California MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania Georgia RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois ANDRE CARSON, Indiana MARK SANFORD, South Carolina RICHARD M. NOLAN, Minnesota ROB WOODALL, Georgia DINA TITUS, Nevada TODD ROKITA, Indiana SEAN PATRICK MALONEY, New York JOHN KATKO, New York ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut, BRIAN BABIN, Texas Vice Ranking Member GARRET GRAVES, Louisiana LOIS FRANKEL, Florida BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia CHERI BUSTOS, Illinois DAVID ROUZER, North Carolina JARED HUFFMAN, California MIKE BOST, Illinois JULIA BROWNLEY, California RANDY K. WEBER, Sr., Texas FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida DOUG LaMALFA, California DONALD M. PAYNE, Jr., New Jersey BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan PAUL MITCHELL, Michigan MARK DeSAULNIER, California JOHN J. FASO, New York A. DREW FERGUSON IV, Georgia BRIAN J. MAST, Florida JASON LEWIS, Minnesota (ii) Subcommittee on Highways and Transit SAM GRAVES, Missouri, Chairman DON YOUNG, Alaska ELEANOR HOLMES NORTON, District of JOHN J. DUNCAN, Jr., Tennessee Columbia FRANK A. LoBIONDO, New Jersey JERROLD NADLER, New York DUNCAN HUNTER, California STEVE COHEN, Tennessee ERIC A. ``RICK'' CRAWFORD, Arkansas ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey LOU BARLETTA, Pennsylvania RICHARD M. NOLAN, Minnesota BLAKE FARENTHOLD, Texas DINA TITUS, Nevada BOB GIBBS, Ohio SEAN PATRICK MALONEY, New York JEFF DENHAM, California ELIZABETH H. ESTY, Connecticut THOMAS MASSIE, Kentucky JARED HUFFMAN, California MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina JULIA BROWNLEY, California SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania ALAN S. LOWENTHAL, California RODNEY DAVIS, Illinois BRENDA L. LAWRENCE, Michigan ROB WOODALL, Georgia MARK DeSAULNIER, California JOHN KATKO, New York EDDIE BERNICE JOHNSON, Texas BRIAN BABIN, Texas MICHAEL E. CAPUANO, Massachusetts GARRET GRAVES, Louisiana GRACE F. NAPOLITANO, California BARBARA COMSTOCK, Virginia DANIEL LIPINSKI, Illinois DAVID ROUZER, North Carolina HENRY C. ``HANK'' JOHNSON, Jr., MIKE BOST, Illinois Georgia DOUG LaMALFA, California LOIS FRANKEL, Florida BRUCE WESTERMAN, Arkansas CHERI BUSTOS, Illinois LLOYD SMUCKER, Pennsylvania, Vice FREDERICA S. WILSON, Florida Chair PETER A. DeFAZIO, Oregon (Ex PAUL MITCHELL, Michigan Officio) JOHN J. FASO, New York A. DREW FERGUSON IV, Georgia BILL SHUSTER, Pennsylvania (Ex Officio) (iii) CONTENTS Page Summary of Subject Matter........................................ vi TESTIMONY J. Michael Patterson, Executive Director, Oklahoma Department of Transportation, on behalf of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials........................... 7 Gary C. Thomas, President and Executive Director, Dallas Area Rapid Transit, on behalf of the American Public Transportation Association.................................................... 7 Hon. Kasim Reed, Mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, on behalf of the United States Conference of Mayors............................. 7 PREPARED STATEMENTS SUBMITTED BY WITNESSES J. Michael Patterson............................................. 35 Gary C. Thomas................................................... 47 Hon. Kasim Reed.................................................. 55 SUBMISSIONS FOR THE RECORD Letter of April 10, 2017, from Mickey Peercy, Director, Self- Governance, Choctaw Nation of Oklahoma, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure.............................. 62 Letter of April 10, 2017, from Kathy Hope Erickson, Chairman, Sitka Tribe of Alaska, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure................................................. 65 Letter of April 12, 2017, from Melanie Bahnke, President, Kawerak, Inc., to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure.. 67 Letter of April 12, 2017, from Blaine J. Edmo, Chairman, Fort Hall Business Council, Shoshone-Bannock Tribes, to Hon. Sam Graves, Chairman, and Hon. Eleanor Holmes Norton, Ranking Member, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit of the Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure........................... 70 Written testimony of the Poarch Band of Creek Indians............ 72 Written testimony of the Solano Transportation Authority, submitted by Hon. John Garamendi, a Representative in Congress from the State of California................................... 74 Report of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, ``AASHTO Implementation Plan for FAST Act and MAP-21,'' April 2017................................... 76 Chart, ``AASHTO Surface Transportation Rulemaking Tracker''...... 106 [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] FAST ACT IMPLEMENTATION: STATE AND LOCAL PERSPECTIVES ---------- WEDNESDAY, APRIL 5, 2017 House of Representatives, Subcommittee on Highways and Transit, Committee on Transportation and Infrastructure, Washington, DC. The subcommittee met, pursuant to call, at 10:02 a.m., in room 2167, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Sam Graves (Chairman of the subcommittee) presiding. Mr. Graves of Missouri. We will go ahead and call the subcommittee to order. And I would like to say good morning and welcome all of our witnesses here today to the hearing. By now, we have all seen the reports of last week's fire and the resulting collapse of a section of I-85 northeast of Atlanta. This is a critically important piece of our infrastructure system, which carries over 400,000 cars a day. With that volume of traffic, it is amazing that there wasn't any loss of life in this incident. And I commend the State and local officials for responding so quickly to the crisis. I also want to commend the U.S. Department of Transportation for acting quickly to release emergency funds and provide assistance. We are here to examine the implementation of the FAST Act [Fixing America's Surface Transportation Act] with our State and local partners. The FAST Act is the first long-term surface transportation reauthorization bill in a decade, and it is an important foundation for building a 21st-century infrastructure. The 5-year bill provides very much needed certainty and funding, so that our non-Federal partners can make smart, long-term investments. The FAST Act is a forward-looking law that puts an emphasis on projects of national significance, the movement of freight, streamlining project delivery, and innovative solutions to transportation challenges. State departments of transportation and transit systems and local entities have the important task of delivering transportation projects to the communities. And as they carry out these projects, the witnesses have a firsthand view of how Federal transportation policies are being implemented by the U.S. Department of Transportation. We look forward to building a 21st-century infrastructure with our State and local partners, and we are going to very much welcome their input today. I now recognize the ranking member of the subcommittee, Ms. Norton, for your opening statement. Ms. Norton. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Chairman Graves, I am very grateful for this subcommittee hearing. I think it indicates that our subcommittee wants to get beyond all of the interest that we have heard on infrastructure, and see what we can really do. We know that a large infrastructure package, the idea of a large infrastructure package, which is on the minds of many in the administration and on our minds, is not going to magically appear. We did a lot of--and I am going to say I think deservedly so--a lot of self-congratulation when we passed the first surface transportation bill in 10 years, and I must say, I am very grateful, Mr. Chairman, that it was a good bipartisan effort. And I know you share with me the disappointment that in order to get any increase whatsoever after 10 years, we had to make a 6-year bill a 5-year bill. I don't know how long we can keep that kind of disinvestment from going on. I say disinvestment because if you are not even investing in a state of good repair, much less the new infrastructure we need, you are not investing. We are disinvesting. Remember how we built this country. Ever since this idea of the Federal transportation infrastructure package was created by President Eisenhower, the country has understood that you can't be a great country unless you continuously invest in infrastructure of various kinds. Now the Congressional Budget Office tells us that we face a $139 billion shortfall in the Highway Trust Fund just over the next decade, if we are trying to continue to fund the FAST Act funding levels. And we need $17 billion more a year than FAST Act levels at the Federal level to improve our infrastructure and to maintain a state of good repair. I am very pleased that the President has said good things about infrastructure, so I hastened to get a hold of his so- called skinny budget, and was very disappointed to see really unheard of cuts to popular transportation programs. So instead of investing, after my hopes had been raised, for example, in transit, urgently needed to alleviate congestion, the President wants to stop all new investments in transit by cutting off the New Starts program. I am grateful, nevertheless, for the continuing bipartisanship on this committee. I was pleased to sign a letter with Chairman Graves and the leadership of the full committee to urge the Appropriations Committee to fully fund all FAST Act programs as authorized for the remainder of 2017 and in the upcoming 2018 budget. I am still banking on a President that talks about $1 trillion proposal, at least supporting us as we fight to maintain the meager funding levels we had. And I am not pulling my hair out that the President's cuts will go through, because no matter who is President, the appropriators always rewrite the budget. But I am concerned that the administration seems to be more enamored with pushing private capital and financing--which would end up making projects more expensive than traditional funding mechanisms--and regulatory reforms than making real investment. An investor-centered approach will do little to improve infrastructure across the Nation. I mean, you simply can't build your infrastructure and expect that toll roads will somehow pay for it. There must be a revenue stream, and for the modern era in American life, it has always begun with this committee and subcommittee. Nor can we streamline our way out of inadequate funding. Secretary Chao said recently the problem is not money. Imagine saying that about roads and transit. The problem is always money. She didn't say that last part. That was editorializing. She said it is the delays caused by the Government permitting processes that hold up projects for years, even decades, making them risky investments. But, in fact, if you check the data, only 4 percent of all infrastructure projects nationwide undergo any rigorous environmental review. Most of it is what you and I see every day, 90 percent of projects received from categorical exclusion through the categorical exclusion process, and are exempt from rigorous levels of review. A recent inspector general report also refutes the notion that more streamlining now is the prudent cost of action. It concludes that additional streamlining provisions in the FAST Act are actually slowing down the U.S. Department of Transportation's ability to implement the project delivery accelerations put into MAP-21. In other words, piling streamlining measures on top of each other, before they can be implemented, simply does not help, and, frankly, does not happen. I have always defended opportunities for public participation in NEPA, and continue to believe that it helps us to improve the ultimate projects. Community input and buy-in are crucial to the successful and expeditious advancement of transportation projects. Gutting public participation in the name of cutting redtape is something that will harm our roads and will harm the constituents who use our roads and infrastructure. I don't believe we can reinvent the wheel when it comes to transportation and infrastructure. I just think there is no way around our obligation as the Congress of the United States to provide the States and local governments with the funding and the flexibility that they alone know what to do with to produce smart and efficient projects, allowing the States, who have the wisdom, once we give them the money to go ahead. I very much look forward to today's witnesses. I have read the headlines, Mayor Reed, about Atlanta and I-85. It will be interesting to hear what we can do and what you can do on that unforeseen circumstance. Thank you very much, and I look forward to the testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Ranking Member. I now turn to ranking member of the full committee, Mr. DeFazio. Mr. DeFazio. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thanks for this important hearing. I will just restate a few things because they do merit restating. We have an $836 billion backlog on unmet capital investment needs for highways and bridges; nearly 140,000 bridges need repair or replacement; and over $90 billion just to bring existing transit up to a state of good repair, let alone build out new transit options for people. Yet, we haven't increased the user fee here in Washington, DC, in a quarter of a century. Over the past few years, 17 States have raised their gas tax, and nobody has been recalled. Nobody has lost their reelection, and it has not been a controversy. The American people get it. They are tired of sitting in traffic. They are tired of blowing out tires in potholes. They are tired of being detoured around weight-limited or closed bridges. They are tired of the decrepit state of our mass transit, and they want to see action. So, today, I am sending Secretary Chao a letter urging her to come down and work with Congress to create a consensus around real investment, and real solutions for the Nation's infrastructure problems. I am hearing a lot of talk about, well, it is going to be P3s; it is going to be infrastructure banks; it is going to be private tax credits, and we are going to streamline the Federal approval process. Let's address that briefly. First off, most P3s are projects $1 billion or larger. You have got to have a rate of return. You have got to attract the investment. They have to be tolled, or some other way, you know, to recoup the investment, and they are generally 5-to-1 public money to private money. Now, the Speaker has said he wants 40-to-1 private money to public money. That means no more P3s. There are no investors out there who are going to put up at a 40-to-1 ratio and do a P3. They generally put up 10 to 15, at the most, 20 percent, and the rest comes from TIFIA or local bonding or State bonding, municipal bonds, whatever. That is myth number one. Now, infrastructure, banks, private-activity bonds, you know, those are new forms of local borrowing. Again, they require a revenue stream, hence tolling or some other way of recouping the investment. And, of course, they do increase the costs. Now Secretary Chao unfortunately was given some alternate facts by somebody. She stated: ``Investors say there is ample capital available waiting to invest in infrastructure projects, so the problem is not money. It is the delays caused by Government permitting processes that hold up projects for years, even decades, making them risky investments.'' No. No. That is not the problem. In fact, we made 42 major policy changes for streamlining in MAP-21. Not all of those have been implemented yet. In fact, some of them have run into conflicts with the FAST Act. So, we did streamlining. We did more streamlining on top of streamlining. Let's get all that implemented and see if there is still any issues. I don't think you will find many. In fact, more than 90 percent of the projects go forward under categorical exclusion, which is basically filling out a few sheets of paper, and it might take you 1 month or 2 months at the most. So that isn't the issue here. You can't streamline your way out of a lack of funding. So, you know, 4 percent of projects, 4 percent, require environmental impact statements. And as Ranking Member Norton noted, most of those are held up at the local or State level because of controversy surrounding those projects, redesign, and other things which came out in hearings, which are required under the NEPA process. But that is 4 percent of the projects. So 96 percent don't even have to go through a rigorous environmental review. And a recent report by the Treasury looked at 40 economically significant transportation and water projects whose completion has been slowed or is in jeopardy--ah, proof positive about streamlining. No. The report found that a lack of public funding is, by far, the major factor hindering the completion of those projects. So plain and simple, I got a provision in the FAST Act that says if Congress appropriates more money to transportation, it flows through the policies in the FAST Act. We don't need to spend a year or two rewriting the policies, arguing over transit highway split, arguing over enhancements, arguing over how much goes to freight, how much goes here, how much goes there, arguing. We don't have to go through any of the policy debate. All we need to do is have the guts to put up a little bit of money, and that is why I introduced A Penny for Progress. And as I have said before, if anybody around here thinks they are going to lose their election if they vote on something that caps the indexation increase at 1\1/2\ cents a gallon a year, then you don't belong here. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thanks, Ranking Member. I will now introduce our panel. And first I would like to introduce Mr. Mike Patterson, who is the executive director of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation. He is testifying on behalf of the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials. We also have Mr. Gary Thomas, who is president and executive director of the Dallas Area Rapid Transit. And he is testifying on behalf of the American Public Transportation Association. And I would like to recognize Ms. Johnson of Texas to make a formal introduction of Mr. Thomas. Ms. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. As a Representative from Dallas, I am proud to introduce not only a friend and partner, but a good executive, who is Mr. Gary Thomas, president and executive director of the Dallas Area Rapid Transit, which we call DART. He and I worked cooperatively together for many years to cultivate our great city of Dallas into an interconnected transit hub that it is today as the largest growing metropolitan area in the country. He joined DART in 1998, and has since grown DART's light rail system into the Nation's longest and largest at 93 miles long. Under his leadership, DART has become a leading example for the Nation of how to effectively manage and grow a flourishing public transit network. I happen to know that DART also has very strong working relationships with our Federal partners at USDOT and the Federal Transit Administration, thanks to Mr. Thomas. He is also very effective at cultivating strategic partnerships with local stakeholders to meet the needs of the robust multimode transit network in the Dallas metroplex. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I am proud to introduce Mr. Thomas to the committee with great anticipation to his testimony and his plea for money. Thank you, and I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Ms. Johnson. And finally, we have the Honorable Kasim Reed, who is the mayor of Atlanta, Georgia, and he is testifying on behalf of the United States Conference of Mayors. And I now recognize Mr. Johnson of Georgia to make a formal introduction. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. I thank you, Mr. Chairman. It is my distinct pleasure to recognize and welcome my friend, Kasim Reed, mayor of Atlanta, to this hearing. As we convene this hearing this morning, I can think of no better witness to offer than the Honorable Kasim Reed. Mayor Reed, when he first came into office, he balanced Atlanta's budget, and he took care of the challenge of the unfunded pension system which had been languishing for many years. That has been taken care of successfully 6 years ago, or 7 years ago, actually. He has invested in hiring more police officers in Atlanta. Our crime rate continues to go down. Mayor Reed is the 59th mayor of the city of Atlanta, serving in that capacity since 2010. Mayor Reed is known for building relationships and working in a bipartisan way with local, State, and Federal stakeholders on economic development and transportation issues. During his tenure, Atlanta has experienced significant economic development and a population boom. For instance, his work with Governor Nathan Deal and the Obama administration to obtain Federal support for the Port of Savannah Harbor Expansion Project, has resulted in much economic development for the Atlanta region and for the State of Georgia. The city has responded by undertaking an ambitious agenda to upgrade roads and bridges and improve the city's transportation infrastructure. The city of Atlanta, under Mayor Reed's leadership, is currently undergoing a historic $2.6 billion expansion of the Metropolitan Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority, or MARTA, as well as expanding and completing unique projects such as Atlanta's BeltLine, which is a 22-mile stretch of trails and transit around the city on abandoned railways. This project has opened up a lot of economic development in terms of new housing, rehabilitated housing, new residents coming in, businesses opening up, communities being created that are walkable, bikeable, and interconnected. And also, at the same time, he has presided over the opening of the Maynard H. Jackson Jr. International Terminal at the Atlanta Airport as Atlanta matures into a world-class city. He is overseeing, currently, a $6 billion expansion of the Hartsfield-Jackson Airport, an international airport, the world's busiest airport; at the same time building a state-of-the-art stadium for our dear Falcons. It nears completion, world-class facility with a retractable roof. So much that we can talk about, Mayor Kasim Reed's leadership. He is leveraging the strength of partnerships with the State of Georgia, colleges and universities, and the private sector to build an innovative transportation infrastructure that ensures mobility and creativity for Atlanta's residents, businesses, and visitors, all taking place while Atlanta remains an affordable city where everyday working people can afford to live, work, and play. With that, I am proud to introduce to this committee, Mayor Kasim Reed. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. Johnson. With that I would ask unanimous consent that our witnesses' full statements be included in the record. Without objection, that is so ordered. And since your written testimony is going to be made part of the record, the committee would ask that you please limit your summary to 5 minutes. With that, Mr. Patterson, we will start with you. TESTIMONY OF J. MICHAEL PATTERSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, OKLAHOMA DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION, ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF STATE HIGHWAY AND TRANSPORTATION OFFICIALS; GARY C. THOMAS, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, DALLAS AREA RAPID TRANSIT, ON BEHALF OF THE AMERICAN PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION ASSOCIATION; AND HON. KASIM REED, MAYOR OF ATLANTA, GEORGIA, ON BEHALF OF THE UNITED STATES CONFERENCE OF MAYORS Mr. Patterson. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Mike Patterson. I am the executive director of the Oklahoma Department of Transportation, ODOT, and I am here today to testify on behalf of ODOT and the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials, AASHTO. First, we want to thank you, Mr. Chairman, and other members of your committee, for your leadership and efforts to increase the efficiency of delivering transportation projects. In collaboration and in cooperation with the Federal Government, the State DOTs continue to seek opportunities and create solutions to solve the deteriorating national transportation system. All of us have come to realize that additional funding is important. That serves as a partial solution to the problem. The FAST Act's authorization of $305 billion for Federal highway safety, transit passenger rail programs from 2016 to 2020 could not have been timelier in spurring our economic growth and investment in our multimodal transportation infrastructure. But equally important to initiating and completing transportation investments in a timely matter involves major programmatic and policy reforms contained in both the FAST Act and MAP-21. It is our hope that Congress will feel comfortable in seeking additional reforms that will provide further opportunities to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of transportation programs and project delivery while remaining responsible stewards of taxpayer resources in both human and natural environments. Moving forward, we must develop a modern revenue model for funding our surface transportation investments. The days of almost total reliance on consumption tax for a fleet of ever- increasing fuel-efficient vehicles is nearing its end. What we consider innovative funding today must and will become a new normal for funding transportation. Until that time, it is imperative that the annual obligation authority in the FAST Act be fully honored, the structural cash flow deficit in the Highway Trust Fund be resolved, and the schedule of recisions of contract authority be abolished. Even in today's environment of financing solutions, it remains imperative that direct funding of transportation investments remain the primary focus. The reality remains that most transportation projects cannot generate adequate revenue to service debt or provide the return on investment required by private sector equity holders. Everyone recognizes that the FAST Act provides only a near- term solution to the Federal surface transportation funding. That is because the Highway Trust Fund continues to remain at a crossroads. The Highway Trust Fund has provided stable, reliable, and sometimes substantial highway and transit funding for decades since its inception in 1956, but this is no longer the case. Since 2008, the Highway Trust Fund has been sustained through a series of general fund transfers now amounting to $140 billion. According to the January 2017 baseline of the Congressional Budget Office, the Highway Trust Fund spending is estimated to exceed receipts by about $17 billion in fiscal year 2021, growing to about $24 billion by 2027. Furthermore, the Highway Trust Fund is expected to experience a significant cash shortfall in 2021, since it can't incur a negative balance. AASHTO estimates that States may see a 40-percent drop from fiscal year 2020 to the following year, from $46.2 billion to $27.7 billion. In the past, such similar shortfall situations have led to the possibility of reduction in Federal reimbursements to States on existing obligations leading to serious cash flow problems for States and resulting in project delays. Based on the Federal Surface Transportation Program's long track record of efficiency and flexibility, we recommend that any increase in Federal funds should flow through the existing FAST Act formula-based program structure, rather than through untested approaches that require more time and oversight. Though certainly significant, benefits from investment in transportation infrastructure go well beyond short-term construction jobs created. A well-performing transportation network allows businesses to manage inventories and move goods more cheaply across a variety of suppliers and markets for their products and get employees reliably to work. Congress should encourage the USDOT to implement the provisions of both MAP-21 and the FAST Act, fully consistent with legislative intent. An example of the problematic USDOT regulatory action is the onerous and the unanticipated requirement regarding Metropolitan Planning Organization, MPO, coordination. Although State DOTS and MPOs already exemplify the kinds of coordination sought, the new regulation added significant legal and administrative requirements that would serve as barriers to constructive and flexible approaches to planning and programming being implemented by States and MPOs today. Along with the Senate's recent passage of companion legislation to repeal this rule, we appreciate your committee's prompt action last week to bring this before the House floor. Mr. Chairman, thank you for conducting this important hearing to bring a greater awareness of transportation infrastructure needs of the Nation, and thank you for the opportunity to provide testimony. We will be happy to answer any questions the committee may have. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Thomas. Mr. Thomas. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name is Gary Thomas, and I am the CEO of Dallas Area Rapid Transit. I certainly appreciate the work that this committee does, and thank you, Congresswoman Johnson, for your kind introduction; but more importantly, thank you for what you do in our region. You have been the stalwart congresswoman for our region for many, many years, and we certainly appreciate the impacts that you have had. I am grateful for the opportunity to talk about the impact that the partnership with the Federal Government, and most specifically, the FAST Act, is having on our community. DART was created in 1983, when north Texans voted to tax themselves a 1-percent sales tax to create a transit agency that, quite frankly, they didn't know what it was going to do at that point in time. Today, DART is a multimodal transit agency operating North America's longest light rail system in the fourth largest metropolitan area in the United States. The 2.3 million residents of our 13-city, 700-square-mile service area, count on DART's network of bus, light rail, commuter rail, and paratransit services, to give them a choice to get them where they need to go every single day. I have been part of the public transportation industry now for 30 years, and CEO since 2001. Public transportation is changing the way American communities grow. Equally importantly, we are seeing a significant return on the public investment. Transit-oriented development along DART rail lines has generated more than $7 billion in economic impact from new or planned construction. Additionally, in 2014 and 2015, there were 43,000 jobs that were created as a result of this development, resulting in nearly $3 billion in wages, salaries, and benefits. Now in our region, customers insist on being mobile and being connected. Our GoPass mobile ticketing app was one of the first in the industry to respond to that demand with a multiagency and multimodal fare payment system. Just over 2 years ago, we began working with car and ride-sharing companies like Lyft, Uber and ZipCar to allow our customers to position-- to provide a more complete trip. In other words, first-mile, last-mile opportunities. Now we are using a Federal Sandbox or Mobility on Demand Grant to make it easier for car and ride- sharing customers to connect with transit through that app. Our congressional delegation knows the Federal funds invested in DART will generate significant economic impact, and a higher quality of life in our region. We are pleased to enjoy consistent, bipartisan support. We also believe that we need to bring money to the table. Voters in our 13 cities decided to dedicate a portion of their sales taxes to help fund transit in their communities. We used that to leverage Federal dollars. The FAST Act and its predecessors are difference makers in north Texas, so you can imagine the disappointment we had when we heard the details of the administration's 2018 budget. DART's success is prompting calls for more service, as you might imagine. We are advancing plans for a second light rail line in downtown Dallas that we hope will be partially funded by a Core Capacity Grant. Unfortunately, the budget proposal would foreclose this possibility, so despite significant local investment, the project would be delayed at least 10 years without Federal funding support. Yet we need the capacity today. We are also bringing an old railroad corridor, the Cotton Belt, to life with a new commuter rail line, adding a new rail connection to DFW International Airport. In response to local demand, we are able to accelerate that project by more than a decade with the help from a RRIF loan, a Railroad Rehabilitation and Improvement Financing loan through the Federal Railroad Administration. Federal support has helped us complete the conversion of our bus fleet to compress natural gas. In addition, we are using Federal funds from the low- and no-emission bus program to purchase seven electric busses that will be in operation next year. We have been aggressive and intentional in seeking creative ways to fund and deliver our projects. It certainly doesn't hurt that we have been able to develop a reputation for consistently being under budget and ahead of schedule on our projects. Our mobility challenges are difficult, but certainly can be solved. People in communities everywhere are working on solutions that meet their unique needs. They have the vision and the desire. They need help with the funding. We believe there is a role for local communities to partner with the Federal Government to work together to support these visions with sustainable, substantial, and predictable funding that the FAST Act provides. I cannot impress upon the committee strongly enough how important it is to keep the FAST Act intact and that commitment intact as we move forward. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. I look forward to answering any questions. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you, Mr. Thomas. Mayor Reed. Mr. Reed. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I want to thank you for the opportunity to be here today. I also want to thank my congressman from Georgia---- Mr. Shuster. Mayor, could you pull that mic a little closer to you? I want to make sure I hear every single word you say. Mr. Reed. Thank you, Representative Shuster. I also want to thank my friend, Congressman Hank Johnson, for that kind introduction. I am very hopeful that my wife was watching. That made me feel good about myself. Thank you, Congressman Johnson. I also want to thank the administration and this committee for your help with regard to the crisis that we have faced with the collapse of the I-85 interstate in Atlanta, Georgia. The level of cooperation from our Federal partners could not have been stronger, and I wanted to take this opportunity to express my personal gratitude. I come here today as the mayor of Atlanta and the chairman of the Transportation Committee for the U.S. Conference of Mayors. The challenge that we are having in Atlanta with I-85 and its collapse really points out that an overall transportation system is needed now more than ever. In fact, since we have been facing this challenge with I-85, the use of MARTA, the ninth largest public transit system in the United States, has increased by more than 29 percent as we work through the challenge we are facing. So alternatives, including resilient models, we think will be increasingly important in the 21st century. But we are also investing in roads, which is an issue that I know is very important to members of this committee as well. In 2015, the State of Georgia passed H.B. 170 under the leadership of Governor Nathan Deal, which raised the gas tax in order to fund nearly $1 billion annually for bridge and road repair, so we are working hard to keep our own house in order, in addition to having a strong relationship with our Federal partners. The city of Atlanta is also moving full speed ahead and leading in our own way. Last November, the city moved forward with a half a penny sales tax referendum, which would generate $2.6 billion for MARTA, and this item passed with 71 percent voter support. We also had a second ballot measure, a TSPLOST, for four-tenths of a penny, which will raise an estimated $300 million for infrastructure projects, and it received 68 percent support. So I think it is important to realize that in Georgia and in the metro area, we are focusing on roads and partnership with the State, but we are also not leaving our transit responsibilities and capabilities behind. City residents are, indeed, voting with their pocketbooks, and businesses are voting with their feet. In the last 42 months, after we have made these investments in improving our road infrastructure and our transit infrastructure, we have won 17 either regional or U.S. headquarters in the city of Atlanta. They include businesses like NCR, Honeywell, GE Digital, UPS. We have had the largest net increase of jobs into the city in more than 40 years after making these infrastructure investments. This would not have been possible without the stability that was provided by the FAST Act and your leadership in making that legislation possible. So I wanted to thank you for that. In the last 2 years, Atlanta taxpayers have focused increasingly on making sure that we fund our share of infrastructure, and I think it is important to note that we ask this committee, as you develop future legislation, to always keep in mind what the local community has invested as we try to attract grants and Federal support. We are fixing roads and bridges, engineering more than 30 miles of complete street projects, including bicycle lanes and traffic light synchronization initiatives. As a result of all of these items, the city of Atlanta's credit rating has improved 7 positions, 7 positions, to AA plus as rated by Standard and Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch. The point we are making is, is that when you invest in these critical infrastructure items, the market responds, and the business community responds. Modest expansion means the potential is very real for new light rail transit and flexible bus service that will connect with existing heavy rail and the Atlanta Streetcar systems. None of this would have been possible without your committee's support. Mr. Chairman, that concludes my testimony. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Thank you very much, Mayor. We will now turn to Chairman Shuster of the full committee. Mr. Shuster. Sorry I am late. I did make it to hear all your testimony. I want to thank you all. Mr. Patterson, Mr. Thomas, thank you for bringing your expertise, and thank you, Mayor Reed, for being here again. Outside of the Ninth Congressional District, I think you are probably my favorite mayor in America, because you really understand infrastructure. I am so sorry for what happened down there on the bridge in I- 85, but from what they are telling me, they are going to rebuild that bridge in about 80 days. This is certainly a tragedy. Thank goodness, thank God nobody was killed, but we ought to pay very, very close attention to how fast this moves because we need to learn from this as we did by the Interstate 35 bridge several years ago. They built that bridge in about just shy of 400 days. These are the kinds of things that we should learn from as you move forward because it is going to be critical to do that. I was late because I spent an hour, just an hour with Secretary Chao. She came and briefed about 45 Members of Congress. She talked about the infrastructure bill and how important it is to the President; and, of course, 40, 45 Members were there asking a lot of great questions, and there is a Federal component to it obviously, and we have got to figure the revenues out, how we get more revenues. Public- private partnerships are a tool in the toolbox, but it is not the toolbox. It is a good tool; we need to make it better. And then figuring out how to unleash the private dollars. As I talk to people around the country, there is a $2 billion road project in California right now--$2 billion dollars, $50 million of it is Federal money. The rest is California money, and State, local, private-sector dollars, they want to get about $500 million or $600 million in a TIFIA loan, and they are dragging their feet. These are the kinds of things we have to get out of the way of the States and the locals to move these projects forward. So I really appreciate the three of you being here today. Thank you so much. But I would be remiss if I didn't introduce and welcome to the committee the dean of the Secretaries of Transportation--the dean of the Secretaries of Transportation, from Oklahoma, Gary Ridley. Dean Ridley, it is good to see you. Just you being in the room, we are all learning through osmosis by you being here. So I really always appreciate you being here. I will say it again. I thank the three of you for being here, and thank you, Chairman Graves, for having this hearing. Mr. Graves of Missouri. With that we will open it up for questions. We will start with Mr. Barletta. Mr. Barletta. Thank you. As most of my colleagues know, I grew up working in the road construction business, and that experience showed me how difficult it can be for State and local governments to move forward with projects when they are uncertain about Federal transportation spending. Not only that experience, I was a former mayor as well, so I saw it on both ends. And that uncertainty trickles down to private industry. My family would not hire more workers or purchase more equipment without knowing what the future might hold, without knowing what kind of work would be out there and for how long. Now, under the FAST Act, Federal transportation funding runs out in 2020. Can any of you speak how this deadline affects your ability to move transportation projects forward? Mr. Thomas. Congressman, thank you for the opportunity to address that question. From the transit agency's perspective, we did a very detailed long-range financial plan, a 20-year financial plan, that identifies, assumes, in some regards, and identifies all of our revenue and also identifies all of our expenses, so our projects are very specific. We make sure that we know what we can build, when we can build them, and that we can operate and maintain them once we can build them. Not having the certainty beyond 2020 certainly prohibits us from that certainty, from that reliability of knowing what we can do in that 20-year plan. So it limits us as we look at one of the fastest, as our congresswoman said, the fastest growing regions in the country. We can't always predict and solve some of the transportation challenges that we need to be doing now to make sure that those projects are in place at that point in time. So the long-range funding is certainly critical for transit as we move forward. Thank you. Mr. Reed. As a follow-on to my colleague's comments, one of the things that we could absolutely do right now would be to smooth out the process around continuing resolutions, even under the FAST Act that we have right now. Whenever we have that tension period when we are waiting for the continuing resolution process, it affects our ability to budget. And our State DOT, for example, is in a position where it can't adequately prepare to get projects out waiting for that process. So that is something that is within the FAST Act structure right now that could help us push a great deal more dollars out to businesses to get folks working. Mr. Barletta. Thank you. One of the biggest complaints I hear from people back home is that redtape and bureaucracy consistently hamper investment and innovation. Now, the FAST Act called for greater environmental streamlining to get needed projects to completion faster. Can any of you speak to the success of this attempt? Is it actually happening, or are permits still slow to be developed by stakeholder agencies? Mr. Patterson. Congressman, as I mentioned in my comments, I really appreciate what has happened with streamlining and the effects that came out in the FAST Act and MAP-21. We still have some challenges. There are rulemaking processes that are still underway that we still don't have the rules in place, even after 5 years. But it is important that the rules come out right. We don't want them just to be expeditiously drawn up and be wrong. So we haven't felt all of the effects of your efforts and the rest of Congress' efforts to provide that streamlining, but we are hopeful that it does come to pass. Mr. Barletta. Thank you. And just finally, there is no question, we need to find a sustainable funding source for infrastructure. We can't keep pulling these rabbits out of our hat and these one-trick ponies, one-hit wonders, whatever we want to call them here in Washington, but we need a sustainable funding source. I support a user fee. I think it is one way that we can do that. What solutions do any of you have, maybe, for a sustainable revenue stream that we could put in the Highway Trust Fund, to help the Highway Trust Fund? Mr. Patterson. Congressman, Oklahoma is a member of what we call the Western Road Users Consortium. There is a group on the east coast---- Mr. Nadler. Can you speak closer to the mic? Mr. Patterson. Oklahoma is a member of the Western Road Users Consortium, and there is a group on the east coast that is looking at what you call user fees, some sort of way to fund transportation beyond the consumption tax that I mentioned in my oral testimony. We see that something has to be done, and I appreciate the Federal Government and Congress providing some grant opportunities for our Western RUC to look at different funding mechanisms. I know that Oregon has a test underway, and California just entered into that similar kind of test model. So States are looking at that, and we hope that the Federal Government and Congress looks at our success and our failures to develop something for the future. Mr. Reed. Last month, we also visited with Representative Shuster and Ranking Member DeFazio to talk about their Penny for Progress proposal as a guide. Additionally, we really strongly believe that local governments and State governments that really put skin in the game ought to have a process where they have an advanced position in attracting Federal capital. So how you all would structure that on a long-term basis we would leave to the wisdom of this body. But when a local jurisdiction, or a State's citizens raise their hands and say we are going to be first in on dealing with our own problems, we believe that that municipality or State should be in an advanced position, and that significant points should be awarded to whatever pool of money you all ultimately make available for us to deal with some of these tough challenges. Mr. Barletta. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Ranking Member Norton. Ms. Norton. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would be interested in knowing if any of your States have raised the State gas tax and what the effect on public opinion was, and what do you think would be the effect of raising the Federal gas tax now that perhaps some State gas taxes have been raised? I would be interested in what all of you have to say about that. Mr. Thomas. Yes, ma'am, Ranking Member. Texas has not raised their gas tax since 1992, so it is much the same case. But when you watch gas prices every day swing 10, 15 cents a gallon, I am not sure how much a penny, penny and a half, 2 pennies would be noticed. Certainly there have been conversations in Austin about gas tax, about vehicle miles traveled. There have been a lot of suggestions. We recognize, as a State, that something needs to be done, but much like what is happening across the country, a lot of conversation. We just haven't made that decision yet. Ms. Norton. Mr. Patterson or Mayor Reed? Mr. Patterson. Oklahoma has not raised our gas tax since 1987. Governor Fallin has proposed to increase our fuel tax. It is estimated that by June, we will have the lowest fuel tax in the country at 14 cents for diesel---- Ms. Norton. So how is that working out for you? Mr. Patterson. It is not working out too well. So Governor Fallin has made that proposal to increase it to 24 cents for each diesel and gasoline, and it is going through the legislative process at this point. Ms. Norton. Mayor Reed. Mr. Reed. Yes, ma'am. Our Governor, Nathan Deal, in 2015, a Republican Governor with almost near constitutional majorities in our House and in our Senate in Georgia with Republican majorities in both, raised the gas tax and raised $1 billion as a result of that. In the city of Atlanta, in November, we passed $2.6 billion for the largest expansion of our transit system in history. It passed with 71 percent local support. We also had a TSPLOST funding measure that passed with 68 percent local support to fund more than $300 million in infrastructure. A year prior to that, we had a local referendum for a $250 million infrastructure bond. It passed with more than 80 percent support. So my State--I am from the State of Georgia--we have a very conservative State, and all of these measures have been passed with broad majorities. The legislative majority was in the general assembly for the $1 billion in road money, and then the other items that I referenced regarding MARTA, our transit system, and our infrastructure funds, have been done within the city of Atlanta. So I think it is a nice mix of urban and rural showing that whether you are focused on rural folks or urban folks, people get that we need significant infrastructure investment. Ms. Norton. Very instructive. Conservative or Republican, nobody has found a way to build roads and bridges and transit systems without money. I am interested in what the States have done because almost half the States have taken the initiative, seeing that the Federal Government is stuck and has been stuck for a generation. One more question. I got into the FAST Act--actually it was the idea of a number of us--funds for alternatives. We don't just criticize the fact that Congress won't, or your States or those two States for that matter, continue to ignore the need for funds. We look for alternative funds, and note that some States have found alternative ways, or suggested alternative ways, or are actually experimenting. There is $10 million in the FAST Act for such experimentation. Looking at the notions to come forward recently about private investment as a way to fund roads and the investors getting back their investment through, I suppose, fares or tolls or the rest, I would be interested in knowing whether you think relying more heavily on private investment would help us, in fact, hasten the work that needs to be done on our roads, bridges, and infrastructure? Mr. Patterson. In Oklahoma, and in many States, we have seen a reliance more on private investors. In Oklahoma, we have our turnpike authority, which was created back in the late 1940s, to develop a high-speed, safe transportation facility between Oklahoma City and Tulsa. From that point, it has expanded on, and it is clearly a tolling authority, but the private investors are the moms and pops around the country that buy bonds. So we can't forget that that is a private investing opportunity. Ms. Norton. But could you build most of the roads using tolls? Would the public tolerate that? Mr. Patterson. No, ma'am, we can't, and we realize that. We understand that at this point, many States are relying on some sort of tolling to make up the difference between adequate funding between both the State and Federal level. Ms. Norton. Could I just get answers from the other two witnesses, please? Mr. Reed. Congresswoman, I think that it depends, as long as you keep your focus on project models versus tax credit models. So, I think that the conversation has to be around real projects. Probably the most successful public-private partnership we have in our city is a project called the Atlanta BeltLine, where we reclaimed 22 miles of old abandoned railroads, and now, the $400 million in public support has triggered $3.8 billion in private capital attracted to renovating that entire corridor, and creating 1,200 acres of green space. That is a project model where everybody knows where the focus is going to be, and everybody is tracking the jobs that are being created. The concern that we are experiencing is moving to a tax credit model for the financial services community or financiers. And so that is the distinction that I think is going to be really important as we have this conversation. The most striking and most successful public-private partnerships that I have seen have been project- specific with very broad community buy-in. Ms. Norton. Mr. Thomas. Mr. Thomas. Yes, ma'am. From a transit industry perspective, it is a little bit different. Transit P3s are a great opportunity perhaps, as long as you understand going into it that that money is going to cost you more than what you could typically borrow other places, so there are levels of public-private partnerships. Certainly in one case, where we worked very closely with Uber and Lyft, that is a public- private partnership of sorts. On the other hand, when we do a design-build project, that is a public-private partnership, perhaps at the lowest level, but no funding or financing involved. When you get to the funding and financing level, and, of course, the associated risk-sharing opportunities, those cost more money. The private sector is going to expect higher interest rate on the money that they put into a project than what we can typically get through the Federal funds, or even a RRIF or TIFIA loan. Ms. Norton. Thank you very much. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Davis, 5 minutes. Mr. Davis. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to the witnesses. Mayor Reed, sorry about the Braves on opening day. Not an easy thing, especially after the Falcons. Mr. Reed. I hadn't gotten over the Falcons, but I appreciate it. I appreciate all the good will I can get. Mr. Davis. Well, we don't want to remind you of bad things happening to Atlanta sports, but as a Braves fan myself, it is always good to have the mayor of Atlanta here. I want to ask you about funding set aside under the Surface Transportation Block Grant Program that is suballocated to localities. STBG, formerly STP, is the most flexible formula transportation funding available to States and municipalities to improve Federal highways, Federal aid highways and bridges. And I was pleased that the FAST Act took important steps to gradually increase STBG allocation closer to traditional levels, reaching 55 percent by 2021. Mayor, can you explain for the committee the importance on increasing the suballocation of these funds for local communities like yours to be able to address your transportation and infrastructure problems? Mr. Reed. Congressman Davis, I think that they are absolutely vital, and they will encourage local municipalities to deal with our infrastructure challenges. The one point that I would make here is one I have already made, which is that I do believe that local governments that really step up and start solving these problems on their own should have a dynamic competitive advantage. And that is not, in my opinion, enough of the consideration as a part of this process. I believe that the steps that were already taken have been vital, but I do believe that our Federal partners could encourage us to do more on our own in order to be rewarded for that good behavior. Mr. Davis. Well, I appreciate hearing that, Mayor. And also, I am pleased, you know, that the FAST Act does gradually increase that local control by increasing the suballocation for STBG, but I would have preferred for actually a larger increase. And that is why I, along with my friend, Ms. Titus from Nevada, advocated for language that would have gradually increased that suballocation to 60 percent by 2021. And while we were ultimately unsuccessful, I still believe we should look at ways to increase the local control and flexibility of these transportation dollars. Do you have any suggestions additionally to what you responded to my previous question with, that Congress could take to further promote local control and help communities better address your priorities? Mr. Reed. I think holding up national models that Congress has confidence in for other governments to see would be very helpful. In other words, having some forum playing a clearinghouse function where the answer isn't always additional money or capital, but the answer may be that these are governments that are taking on these challenges and handling them well from a financing standpoint and execution standpoint, and a value of the dollars generated, because everybody's going to come here and ask for more money. But, if you are a local leader or a mayor, you have an end date. And to the extent that a body like yours held projects out as models after you verified them and are prepared to put your stamp of approval on it, I think that it would make it much easier to scale these projects around the country in communities large and small. Mr. Davis. That is great advice. And do you have any projects that you might want to mention here to the committee that are working well as maybe public-private partnerships regarding infrastructure improvements in Atlanta? Mr. Reed. Absolutely. I believe that the Atlanta BeltLine is as successful a private-public partnership as anywhere in the country. If you have been to New York and enjoyed their High Line, the Atlanta BeltLine would be the equivalent of extending that to Westchester County. It is $400 million in public money; it is $3.8 billion in private money; it connects 45 neighborhoods that used to be separated by freeways. It has caused the city to connect just socially in a way that it had never connected before. That would be one example. Another example would be the Atlanta Streetcar, where we had $98 million in public investment and we have had $2.5 billion in new construction activity within a 5-minute walk of that line. Mr. Davis. OK. I am not as familiar with that first project you mentioned. How are you paying back the private portion as a return on investment, what method? Mr. Reed. It is through the use of tax credits for investments. So, for example, when you invest in the Atlanta BeltLine, the public went in and did all of the spending that it took to clean and prepare it; and then the private sector came in after the public sector went in and identified the line. So, for example, there was a 1-million-square-foot building that had been boarded up and was dilapidated. It has now attracted one-quarter of a billion dollars' worth of investment. That used to be owned by my government. I sold it to the private sector for $27 million. The private sector came in and invested one-quarter of a billion dollars. It is built on the Atlanta BeltLine, and now 1.4 million people are using the Atlanta BeltLine. Mr. Davis. Thank you very much for your responses and thanks for being here. Mr. Reed. Thank you for the question. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Nadler. Mr. Nadler. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Patterson, your written testimony implies that the FAST Act authorization levels rise faster for transit than for highways. In fact, highway and transit funding each increase an average of 3 percent per year over the 5 years of the FAST Act. This committee has stood by the 80/20 Highway Trust Fund split for decades. Does AASHTO support maintaining this historic 80/ 20 split between highway and transit funding in future transportation bills as we did in the FAST Act? Mr. Patterson. Yes, sir, we do. We believe that---- Mr. Nadler. Talk to the mic, please. Mr. Patterson. I'm sorry. We do believe that the 80/20 split is appropriate and should be maintained. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. And, also, your testimony makes a compelling argument that direct funding is essential for highway and bridge projects. You have made the case that public-private partnerships, State infrastructure banks, TIFIA credit assistance and local bonding initiatives are helpful, but will not replace real direct dollars. Can you please explain why most transportation projects cannot generate sufficient revenue through tolls, fares, or other payment models to provide a return on investment for private sector investors? Mr. Patterson. When you typically look at a transportation project across this country, when you are talking about rural or urban situations, there is no opportunity, in most cases, to toll that facility. Additionally, there is no economic way to capture the dollars that are generated along the route. An example, in Oklahoma we have seen where, in a small town in southern Oklahoma, they grew out and annexed out to what we call Interstate 35. They did that because of the economic development the interstate provided to them, but we, as a DOT, can't capture that. But there was benefit to the city, through additional sales tax. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. I have one more question for you, sir, and then I will move to the other witnesses. Earlier this year, Speaker Paul Ryan suggested that an infrastructure package should consist of 98 percent private funding. Specifically, the Speaker said that there should be a 40-to-1 ratio between private sector and public sector funding in a Federal infrastructure package. Mr. Patterson, your testimony discusses the importance of direct Federal funding for transportation, which accounts for 43 percent of highway capital expenditures nationwide. Do you believe that an infrastructure package that relies on 98 percent private funding can adequately address the needs of Oklahoma and other States? Mr. Patterson. I don't understand how you get to that perspective. It is something that I would have to learn more about. Mr. Nadler. Well, the perspective is basically that you have some sort of tax credits with Federal funding that amounts to 2 percent, and the other 98 percent comes in from private P3s or something. You don't think that works? Mr. Patterson. I don't think it works in Oklahoma. Mr. Nadler. But you do think it works elsewhere, just not in Oklahoma? Mr. Patterson. I can't speak for the other States, but I would imagine not. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Thomas, do you agree that public-private partnerships, State infrastructure banks, TIFIA credit assistance, and local bonding initiatives are helpful, but cannot replace real direct dollars? Mr. Thomas. They give us tools in the toolbox, but it needs to be a complete toolbox. Otherwise, you can't get the project done, sir. Mr. Nadler. And it is an incomplete toolbox without direct Federal funding? Mr. Thomas. Yes, sir. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mayor Reed, do you believe that private investors will be able to fund the vast majority of highway and transit projects, or that most projects will require Federal, State, and local funds to complete? Mr. Reed. I don't believe that the private market will do that, because they will cherry-pick projects, which will leave essential projects that we need that are just not as financially attractive. And so, the answer is, I believe that the public-private partnership model is important, but it will not replace the need for our Federal partners to bear the lion's share of the load, because the incentive to do a private deal is to make a profit for the private sector. Mr. Nadler. So, in summary, for all three witnesses, the proposal that we have heard--the administration has not made a formal proposal, but the proposal that we have heard may be coming from the administration that they will do, I think, an 82-percent tax credit, again, for private partnerships, and that will fund $1 trillion in infrastructure. Do any of the three of you believe that that would work to fund $1 trillion in infrastructure, if the only Federal money basically is an 82-percent tax credit? Mr. Reed. I do not. I believe that you have to have a project model, not a tax credit model. Mr. Nadler. What do you mean by a project model? Mr. Reed. I mean, specific projects that you are identifying that the Federal Government is investing into in order to create jobs, as opposed to a tax credit model. Mr. Nadler. So there has got to be a Federal investment in addition to tax credits? Mr. Reed. Yes, in addition to a State and a local investment. Mr. Nadler. Mr. Thomas, Mr. Patterson. Mr. Thomas. I agree with the mayor from Atlanta, that there has got to be the direct investment and that the tax credits wouldn't do it all by itself. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. Mr. Patterson. Mr. Patterson. I agree with the other two. Mr. Nadler. Thank you. So, in summary, all our witnesses think that the proposal that I outlined which we have heard will be the administration proposal, would not, in fact, generate $1 trillion for infrastructure investment or anything near it. Is that correct? Mr. Patterson. Yes. Mr. Thomas. Yes. Mr. Nadler. Thank you very much. My time is well expired. I thank the chairman for indulging us in the time. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Ferguson, 5 minutes. Mr. Ferguson. Mayor Reed, glad to have a fellow Georgian in today, and thank you for taking time. I know the new mantra in Atlanta, the new hashtag is #IfICanGetThere. It has been tough. But I want to thank you all on behalf of the rest of the State for your diligence and working, of course, with Governor Deal to help mitigate what is a very, very difficult situation for not only Atlanta, but the Southeast. And I think it goes to show just how important transportation is, that one breakdown of the system can have ripple effects throughout an entire region. Can you speak briefly to the coordination needed between local, State, and Federal officials, and, most importantly, on the planning process as it relates to transportation projects, and also, a little feedback on how the response was from the Federal Department of Transportation with the emergency on I- 85? Mr. Reed. Well, thank you, Congressman. And your accent was music to my ears. I felt right at home when you said hello. Here is what I think: I think that the most important fact has been that Governor Deal and I always had a strong working relationship. And so, whether it was when the State of Georgia was competing for TIFIA funding, or we were competing for a number of TIGER grants, or working to deepen the Port of Savannah, we have always partnered. And so when you have an emergency like we had regarding the bridge collapse on I-85, if you work together all of the time in a cooperative fashion, you just get through this challenge the way that you will get through others. The bulk of the credit, Congressman, belongs to our first responders. In a tragic event, we had no loss of life, and I think the credit to that goes to our firefighters and our police officers and our State patrol officers. They coordinated. They shut down the highway expeditiously. And then we coordinated in deploying resources, which included foam fire trucks from Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport, which were essential in putting the fire out so that less damage was done. Our Federal partners have been exemplary. They have worked in the best tradition of the Federal, State, and local relationship. And I had been in multiple meetings, because it was sine die for the legislature. We were at the State capitol when this crisis occurred, and we instantly began working together. And I think that is why we are going to get the highway up and operational as soon as we possibly can. And I also think that that is why you haven't seen us playing typical political games of blames-personship. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Ms. Johnson. Ms. Johnson of Texas. Thank you. I thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this hearing. It has been one that has brought a great deal of frustration for me as I sit here and look at that quotation up there on the wall. The section of the Constitution, article 1, section 8, speaks to the Federal Government's responsibility toward post offices and roads. We have privatized the post office, and I don't know what we are getting from it. But I just don't see how we can privatize transportation. Nevertheless, I am one of these people that will try to find a way to work with any philosophy that I can to try to get a job done. But this is a tough approach to attempting to address the essential transportation problems in our country. So I am going to ask Mr. Thomas, how detrimental will these cuts be, or if they will be detrimental to the city of Dallas, to DART, and the cities across the country if the CIG [Capital Investment Grants] programs are cut? We have a lot of plans to accommodate the needs in the area, as I am sure every other major city does. But when you read the President's budget, what is your reaction? Where do we go from here? Mr. Thomas. Congresswoman, right now we have three projects that are well into the process in the Dallas area alone. Two are core capacity projects, and one is a Small Starts project. The one is a second alignment through downtown. Again, when people think of transit in the United States, they don't always think about Dallas, Texas. But as I said earlier, we have got the longest light rail system in the United States, in North America, for that matter. All of those corridors, all of those lines come through a single corridor in downtown right now. If there is anything that happens on that corridor, an accident, a fire--we had a fire a few years ago. When the firemen lay their hoses across the tracks, they don't particularly want trains to run across those hoses, and we appreciate that and we understand that. So we desperately need that second alignment through downtown Dallas. We are proposing a 50/50 split, in other words, bringing 50 percent of the funding for that project from local funds, with a 50-percent match from the Federal Government on a core capacity. The other project that we are working on is an extension of our older platforms, which would allow us on 28 platforms to extend those 100 feet, which gives us, just by that alone, 30 percent capacity increase on those two lines, the Red Line and Blue Line. Again, looking for a 50/50 split. TxDOT has actually come to the table with half of that, and so we are looking at the core capacity program for the other half. The third project is an extension of our Streetcar project. The Streetcar program that we just opened not too long ago is unique, because it uses American-made streetcars, streetcars that actually are dual mode. They will operate with an overhead wire and without an overhead wire. We intend to extend that through downtown Dallas with the Small Starts program. We are well into the process, the environmental process, working with the community, making sure we know where these projects should go, what the alignments are, building that support locally. All of those go away. They go away. Ms. Johnson of Texas. Now, we still are having tremendous growth to the area. So if they go away, where do we go from there? Mr. Thomas. That is a good question, Congresswoman. You know, I think as we look at certainly in our region, but across the United States, the impact of the Capital Investment Grants has been important, has been critical, as transit agencies have continued to provide choices for people in their communities to be able to get where they need to go, whether it is to the doctor, to the grocery store, and, most importantly, to jobs. Well over 80 percent of the people that are riding public transportation are going to their jobs. So it is imperative that we continue to look for and continue to support the FAST Act. It has been incredibly successful to this point. I think it is imperative that we continue to support that through 2020, at least. Ms. Johnson of Texas. Thank you very much. Mr. Thomas. Yes, ma'am. Ms. Johnson of Texas. Mr. Chairman, my time has expired. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. LaMalfa. Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, panelists, for joining us today. Mayor Reed, I will start with you first of all. Thank you for being here. And I wish the best to the Braves so long as they don't have any cross-interest with the Giants. Former National League West mates; now it has all changed. Anyway. You know, we have some commonality with emergency situations here with you with that bridge and I-85 here. And I still harken back to when things went really well after the Northridge earthquake in California. This is way back in 1994, where it was projected it might be a year, year and a half having one of the biggest freeways in the country or the world knocked out, that due to a can-do attitude from contractors and the State pulling together and putting aside some unnecessary redtape, they were able to get that back up within just a few months and save much, much loss in economic activity and inconvenience to the people in southern California there. And so, I hope that that is going well and you are getting all the cooperation in the world from the Federal Government and others to see your bridge through. My understanding is that on the original timetable, from what I saw in the press yesterday, moved up from maybe the fall or the winter to maybe June. So I hope it is moving fast for you. We have an immediate need in our own backyard with--I am from northern California, where you may have seen the story about Oroville Dam and the spillway problem we had here February, and it resulted, partly as a precaution, in an evacuation of nearly 200,000 people that were downstream of that. Nothing really bad ended up happening with the emergency spillway there, but the potential for the erosion that was there due to a design that is, indeed, questionable, made that necessary for public safety requirements. So infrastructure and the public safety are very intertwined, as we have seen. Do you feel that the Federal transportation infrastructure, the programs that support the locals in increasing public safety and being prepared as much as they need to be for emergency situations like I am talking about in my backyard or SoCal years ago or what you face with the loss of that bridge in your area, the Federal Government, are we doing a good enough job supporting the local levels in that safety aspect? Again, specifying emergency situations where you need quick action? Mr. Reed. My sense is yes. I chair a group called UASI, which is our local disaster planning entity in Metropolitan Atlanta. And I think that when it comes to emergency response, everything that I have seen shows a high level of professionalism and a high level of coordination. And so, that is an aspect of the Government that I feel very good about. I do believe that we are all going to have to change at the local level really to a posture of being resilient, because without moving into a debate about climate, weather patterns and emergency situations are coming with increasing frequency. And, so, I think that this is a conversation we are going to have to start having more aggressively with our Federal partners. The things that you are experiencing in northern California really have a great deal to do with being on a permanent resilient footing. And as I sit here testifying right now, we are experiencing unusually bad weather in the city of Atlanta, and have been. And so what is happening is, local governments are having to be on an almost permanent footing of responding to crises of one kind or another, frequently, weather-related crises. Mr. LaMalfa. Do you think greater weight should be given to not only improved movement, but the flexibility in emergency situations that could come through the FASTLANE program? Mr. Reed. There is no question about it. Flexibility is going to be either the order of the day, or it is going to be thrust upon us by circumstances. So I think that it is a more thoughtful approach to have flexibility built into the relationship as opposed to having good people have to make it up at the last minute. Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you. Mr. Reed. Thank you, Congressman. Mr. LaMalfa. I appreciate it. And in my experience, your airport also has been very good as I take the red eye from the coast and end up there about 6 a.m. sometimes, but it is always a nice facility to be with. Just the line at Popeyes is always too long at 6 a.m. there. Mr. Reed. That is the busiest Popeyes Chicken in the world, by the way. Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you, sir. I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mrs. Napolitano. Mrs. Napolitano. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Mr. Thomas, I have a question in regard to Capital Investment Grants. The Trump administration's skinny budget calls for elimination of Capital Investment Grants or the New Starts. DART has two separate projects in this pipeline. Do you think it makes fiscal sense to eliminate an infrastructure program that has 55 projects from across the country in the planning engineer stage, potentially sending back billions of dollars of infrastructure investment? Mr. Thomas. Certainly across the United States, Congresswoman, there has been a lot of work done in preparation of these projects. A lot of these projects, as they are in Dallas, have gone through extensive community meetings, lots of planning efforts, lots of coordination. And certainly in our case, we are bringing a significant amount of money to the table, as we always have, as we will continue to do in our financial plan. And people have looked at the FAST Act as--that although it only goes to 2020, and we understand there are challenges beyond that, we are certainly appreciative of the long-term bill. We would like for it to stay intact and for it to continue to move forward through 2020. So these agencies, including ours, that have anticipated that funding can go ahead and get these projects completed and provide those choices to people---- Mrs. Napolitano. Yes, but does it make fiscal sense to eliminate them? Mr. Thomas. Certainly in DART's case, no, ma'am, it does not, because we are bringing money to the table. They are getting 50 cents on the dollar for a project. So it seems like it makes a whole lot of sense to continue to do that. Mrs. Napolitano. Thank you. Another question I have has to do with Positive Train Control. The FAST Act provided $199 million guaranteed for the Mass Transit Account of the Highway Trust Fund for fiscal year 2017, to help commuter railroads implement PTC. The Appropriations Committee, our very own, did not make the funding available, however, under the continuing resolution. This critical safety funding will lapse if the CR is extended for the remainder of this fiscal year. Mr. Patterson and Mr. Thomas, can you elaborate why this funding is important to your agencies? Mr. Thomas. Well, certainly the transit industry is hopeful that Congress will quickly complete the fiscal year 2017 budget so that that $199 million of grant funding can be allocated to the properties throughout the country. We have got a 2018 deadline for our commuter rail system to put that in place. That requirement comes on top of operating and maintaining our system every day. So it is imperative that---- Mrs. Napolitano. It has already been extended once. Mr. Thomas. Yes, ma'am. And so it is imperative to meet the 2018 deadline to get that funding in place so we can get that critical safety project completed. Mrs. Napolitano. Thank you. A question primarily for Mr. Patterson and Mr. Reed--Mayor Reed. I have been working on an amendment to FAA reauthorization to prohibit FAA from impacting State and local general sales tax. The issue: For 30 years, FAA has required excise tax on aviation fuels to be spent on airports for airport infrastructure, but for 30 years, the FAA has not interpreted this requirement to affect general sales tax, which tax aviation fuel as well as other products sold in the country or the State. Now they are changing their interpretation, requiring State and local governments to count how much money is collected by the general sales tax on aviation fuel and siphoning the money back to the airport. A major Federal business problem when State and local governments are being told how to spend their own tax dollars by the FAA. It will impact local transportation projects, since most sales tax around the country provide for local transportation funding. The Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport in the State of Georgia is one of the most impacted regions in the country with the new rule. It will take millions of dollars out of local control, a major problem in my State of California. Are you aware of the issue and do you have concerns with this new FAA rule? Should Congress fix and return 30 years of precedence that allows State and local governments to spend their general tax revenue as they see fit? Mr. Patterson. I don't have any knowledge. I have knowledge, but I can't really comment on that. I think the mayor would be better suited for this answer. Mr. Reed. Congresswoman, I am on your side. And I don't think I could have said it better than you just said it. Mrs. Napolitano. Well, it is an infringement upon the local control, as far as I am concerned. Thank you, Mr. Chair, I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Smucker. Mr. Smucker. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. As a business owner of a construction company for 25 years prior to serving in the State legislature and then here, I understand the importance of a good highway/bridge system with infrastructure to move goods and employees to job sites, and the importance of infrastructure to our economy, essentially. And then when serving in the State legislature, we were one of those States that were able to pass a bill that provided for additional sustainable funding for our highway and bridge system. In our case, it was a wholesale gas tax that had a cap on it tied to the price of gas. We essentially lifted the cap. But generated billions of dollars of additional funding, mostly for maintenance and repair of our current system, in some cases, adding additional capacity. But we had the highest number of structurally deficient bridges of any State, I believe, at the time, and there was a real need. But the reason I bring that up--and, Mayor Reed, maybe this question will be directed to you--it was really important for us--let me back up. So it was a Republican legislature, both Houses, and a Republican Governor at the time. And I just mention that because you mentioned that in Georgia, but also mention it because at the same time that we were able to gather support for that, we were looking at all aspects of our budget. And, in fact, were cutting back in other areas, because we really believed that we needed to focus on the core functions of Government, and were able to make the case to the people of Pennsylvania that infrastructure is not only a core function of Government. It is something you have to do at that level, but also was critically important to people who were caught in traffic, in congestion, and critically important to the economy. And it took a concerted effort, it took a lot of hearings, it took a lot of discussion with the public to gain that support that was required to pass that. And I think that is something that we will need to do here. And I support finding a way for sustainable funding. I think the point was brought up earlier, it is so important to not only the States and local municipalities to have that dependable, sustainable source of funding, but to all of the businesses that rely on this. It is critical for efficient delivery to know we can plan ahead. So, Mayor, I guess a question to you: Can you give us some insight? I think, if I understood your testimony correctly, while you were there, you essentially passed a 1-percent sales tax that went to infrastructure. And you said also Georgia was doing that at the same time. What can we learn from that in terms of building the public support for investment in our infrastructure? Mr. Reed. Congressman, I think what we can learn is that the public is ahead of us. And I think that when we talk plainly and explain what the challenges are, the public will come on board as long as they believe that we are going to make good use of their funds. I imagine you experienced that in Pennsylvania. In Georgia, our State is one of eight States in America with a AAA credit rating from all three rating agencies. One of the reasons is tight fiscal management, but also the decision that we made around transportation. We have grown to be the 10th largest State in the Union. The Atlanta metropolitan region is now the ninth largest metro in the country, with a GDP of $335 billion. And we have gone from a really low credit rating to AA plus, from Standard and Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch. So I think the arguments that you make is--and we have had an absolute jobs boom. And what we are all concerned about is who is going to win the war for talent. And I think that folks like you and I have to just get out and make the case. And I thought it was really important that a Republican Governor, Republican House, and Republican Senate passed $1 billion for transportation, because our folks were stuck in traffic like you all. And then on the transit side, we are doing the biggest transit expansion in the history of our system. And it will be one of the seventh largest transit expansions in America, but we did it with 71 percent voter support at the ballot. I think that was a nice bipartisan collaboration. Mr. Smucker. Thank you. I was hoping to get input from the other panelists as well, but I see that I am out of time. Mr. Reed. I apologize. Thank you for the question. Mr. Smucker. Thank you. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mayor Reed, you served in the Georgia Legislature for 10 years, both in the House and Senate. And so you know how conservative and fiscally restrained the environment is among our legislative friends in Georgia. But yet, back in 2015, Georgia increased its gas tax from 7.5 cents to 26 cents, and increased the diesel tax to 29 cents, and then indexed it so that every year it is adjusted in accordance with the Consumer Price Index. Can you comment about the conditions that existed in Georgia that led to the passage of that gas tax increase? And also, what political fallout, if any, occurred as a result of passage, and then the benefits from passing that increase? Mr. Reed. Thank you for the question, Congressman. I think the bottom line is that if you want to lose an election in Georgia, you would be the person to lose the State's AAA credit rating. And I think that everybody acknowledged--everybody was experiencing the same thing. We were all sitting in traffic. We had tried to pass a regional bill. You remember that. The Governor and I worked to pass a regional transportation bill that was soundly rejected by the voters at the ballot. So the problem of traffic in Atlanta--we have among the worst traffic in the United States--it was really starting to impact our ability to attract jobs and business when we were trying to fight our way out of the recession. And every meeting that the Governor and I went to when we were recruiting businesses and working to keep businesses in Georgia, they said, you have to do something about the traffic. And so I think that it was a matter of having the right leader at the right time. He made the decision to move a bill through the Georgia General Assembly. And I am comfortable saying that 95 percent of the people who voted in favor of the $1 billion tax increase were all reelected. I would probably be comfortable saying 98 percent were reelected at the ballot. So the risks were minimal, but we did do a very good job of explaining the need. And then the city took the leadership on expanding transit within the city of Atlanta. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Well, I want to ask you about that, because Atlanta has seen a number of Fortune 500 and Fortune 100 companies moving into Atlanta as a result of our investment in transit. Can you elaborate on what we have done, how it has affected our economy? Mr. Reed. Sure, Congressman. We have the third largest concentration of Fortune 500 businesses in the United States of America. And I think what the business community is doing is depoliticizing transit, as opposed to it being a Democrat/ Republican issue. When State Farm sited 8,000 jobs outside of Atlanta in Dunwoody, they wanted it by a MARTA stop. When PulteGroup Homes moved their headquarters to Atlanta--it is the second biggest home builder in America--they wanted it by a MARTA stop. So what we are seeing is the business community and millennials want to be near transit. And so it is lifting the transit conversation out of urban/rural politics, because everybody wants terrific jobs. And we have a generation of folks, unlike my generation and your generation, who are not interested in driving automobiles. And so, if you want to be first to the future, you will have to be in the transit business. And so Republicans and Democrats have gotten in line. And I would suspect that Mr. Thomas sees the same thing. When you put down transit and infrastructure, business comes to it, because it is a permanent investment. And when you put it to voters, these items pass overwhelmingly. So I think it is really about being first to the future, Congressman. And you just have to decide whether you want to have well-paying jobs for your people or not. And, now, because of the business community's insistence on transit, and how well transit investments perform in terms of the economy that is built around it, it is helping us get out of this old argument of rural/urban, Democrat/Republican. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Mr. Thomas, have you experienced the same thing in Dallas? Mr. Thomas. Absolutely. And as in Atlanta, we have a State Farm development also. And they did the same thing; they looked for a rail station to be close to. And the development around that particular station is phenomenal: 28 new restaurants, thousands of new residences, millions of square feet of office space that occur around that particular station. So the developers certainly understand the advantage of that transportation infrastructure they are looking at. Our communities understand it. The debate in north Texas is where our resources, where those Federal resources end up going, because they know that when we go in and build that infrastructure, there is going to be development; there is going to be job opportunities; there are going to be the benefit to the people, not only from a transportation perspective, but also, all the ancillary benefits that happen around those stations. Mr. Johnson of Georgia. Thank you. I am out of time. I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Shuster. Mr. Shuster. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Once again, I want to thank you and welcome all of you to the committee. I appreciate your testimony. I am going to yield my time to Mr. LaMalfa, Doug, as we call him here, my time, because he has some more questions he would like to ask. So, with that, I yield. Mr. LaMalfa. Much appreciated, Mr. Chairman. Again, I appreciate the discussion with the panel. And, Mr. Mayor, you know, you talk about the collaborative process you had in Georgia there with the Governor of your city and others where, you know, the AAA credit rating. You are doing things the right way. You are talking to people and they are expressing what it is they wish to see happening. Right now in California, where we don't have a good credit rating, the legislature, I think really in more--well, total control terms, I will leave it at that--are forcing through at this moment, this week, a combined gas tax and car tax, which the people are against, especially in terms of--and I am going to direct a question to Mr. Patterson here in a moment. But we have a high-speed rail issue in California that is shown to be $55 billion short of funding, and we don't know where it is going to come from, yet we have crumbling bridges and roads down there that the people are going to be forced to pay a higher tax on their automobile registration and their gasoline. That is probably going to mean to a two-car middle income family around $500 per year additionally that they don't get to spend on their kids' education or whatever, for crumbling roads and bridges that, instead, they are seeing billions and billions being spent on high-speed rail at a point where nobody in the State other than people that make money off it seem to want it. And then, the audacity that in this new funding that would come from this new tax, there are not even any upgrades for new additional lanes or additional capacity for roads and bridges. So I think what is going on out there is not a collaborative process and it is really tone-deaf to what the needs of middle income families are. So I would like to see, where we can do it here, a much more streamlined process to get dollars to projects that do relieve traffic and do repairs. So for Mr. Patterson, you know, again, in my own county up there in Butte County, we have State Highway 70 that could have been done. There are projects that could be done in the future or that have already been partially done faster and less costly if the environmental review process didn't have to take nearly as long for issues environmentally that are already well-known. This isn't a brand new concept here that we add a lane on the next segment that you are going to, you know, have issues that are already well-known on previous studies in the same type of terrain. So what can we be doing to assist local agencies without having to be held hostage for some of these habitat tradeoffs, to have more efficient construction of transportation projects, whether it is rebuilding of, you know, older infrastructure or the additional capacity we all want and we all need as taxpayers? Mr. Patterson. Thank you, Congressman. One of the things that this Congress did was provide for a better process when we are talking about, in your example, adding lanes to or adding additional capacity to already identified transportation corridors. And the intent of Congress at the time was to go from fence to fence, and that would be because it is already cleared as a transportation corridor. Some of the guidelines that we have received from the Federal Highway Administration don't allow fence to fence, and so that is just pavement edge to pavement edge. And so we are having to work through some of those issues with the U.S. DOT and their rulemaking process. And I know the director in California, Malcolm Dougherty, is working very hard on that issue, as well as many other of my colleagues from around the country. Mr. LaMalfa. Thank you for that. I would like to look more into that fence-to-fence provision you are talking about there, but I will I yield back the rest of my time. And please follow up with my office if you get the opportunity on that. Thank you. Mr. Patterson. Yes, sir. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Ms. Titus. Ms. Titus. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We heard earlier Chairman Shuster mentioned something about 45 Members had a meeting with Secretary Chao. I would suggest that we invite her to meet with all members of this committee, so we can have a collaborative effort and continue to be bipartisan in our effort to put forward transportation policy. Maybe then they wouldn't have the problems that they had with the healthcare bill if we were all engaged from the beginning. So I would just make that suggestion. Also, I would like to acknowledge--and he is gone already-- but Mr. Davis from Illinois. He brought out our bill that we worked together on and became an amendment to the FAST Act, where we send more money to the local government as opposed to the State for it to be distributed. I think we need to continue down that path, because too often, the politics in the State capital around the DOT entities play a bigger part than good policy decisions. So the more we can send money to the local government, I think the better. I would like to turn my attention a little bit, though, to another provision in the FAST Act that I worked on, and that was to have Complete Streets planning put into the bill. This is the first time this has ever been done in a Federal transportation program. I was very glad to see that in my district in Las Vegas. We have just had an increase in pedestrian deaths. And, so, having a policy that begins with the planning through the construction through the operation of transportation that includes all users, I think is very beneficial. I know a number of States and local governments are incorporating that kind of Safe Streets planning. And I would like to ask you, Mayor Reed, under your leadership, I know Atlanta is kind of one of the stars in this area. Could you comment on the benefits of it, how it is working, some suggestions for other places to follow? Mr. Reed. I think that it has worked well, and I think that it is connecting communities and contributing to a sense of community that the people that created and developed the concept had in mind. It is what we thought it would be when well-executed. And so it is an approach that we are taking. It is a part of the reason that we had such success at the ballot when we went to voters for the four basis points for four- tenths of a penny during our recent referendum. Folks are asking for it. And it also gives a significant boost to businesses that are on Complete Streets corridors. And, so, I think that the Complete Street approach is really bearing good fruit, and it is what we thought it was. And it needs to be pushed at every opportunity if you want your city or your community to be a leading one, because it is something people want when they are looking for a place to make a permanent home. Ms. Titus. Thank you. I believe it is not just for safety, but quality of life. You see more people on bicycles now, more people walking, all kinds of uses besides just cars and buses. Mr. Patterson, would you talk about what some of the States are doing as they include this in their planning? Mr. Patterson. Well, I know several States are working on Complete Streets. In Oklahoma, we are partnering with the city of Oklahoma City for a new downtown boulevard that includes bike lanes, pedestrian paths, as well as a new driving lane. It is where I-40 used to go through downtown Oklahoma City, and we relocated I-40 to the south of downtown, and we are putting in a boulevard that has the Complete Streets concept to it. Ms. Titus. And if you want to talk about businesses, we are seeing in downtown Las Vegas where they now have rent-a-bikes, and that is kind of part of that quality of living I was talking about. Would you like to comment on how it relates to businesses and improves that aspect of things, anybody? Mr. Patterson. I can tell you in Oklahoma City, we have the rent-a-bike program going on there, and it is growing exponentially. We believe that once the new boulevard is in place, it will explode, much like you see here in Washington, DC. Ms. Titus. Mayor? Mr. Reed. Our Bikeshare program has been highly popular, and we are getting ready to expand it by 400 percent. Mr. Thomas. Congresswoman, I think the benefit--and you certainly are aware--is how all of the different modes of transportation work together in a single corridor, whether it be buses, bikes, pedestrians, automobiles. And that planning effort is what makes all that happen. And so often, the planning effort is skipped and bypassed. So thank you very much for making sure that it has been included in the FAST Act. Ms. Titus. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Lowenthal. Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I join others in thanking our witnesses for joining us and educating us today. I would like to raise an issue that is near and dear to my heart and extremely important to my district, which is the 47th Congressional District, which starts off with the Port of Long Beach, which is the second largest port in the United States. And that is freight funding, the funding for the movement of freight. As you know and have mentioned, the FAST Act included dedicated freight funding programs for the first time. This included a competitive grant program dubbed FASTLANE by DOT. Mayor Reed, you have talked about the importance to your State and the city of economic development at the Port of Savannah, which received a $44 million grant for multimodal connectors, such as you have talked about. Mr. Patterson, your department was granted $62 million last year for U.S. 69, U.S. 75, for rail grade separations. So your organization, AASHTO, also put out a report with the American Association of Port Authorities that showed the growing demand for multimodal projects. The report stated that an absolute minimum need of at least $20 billion for multimodal projects. Yet, the FAST Act only has a total funding for multimodal projects of slightly more than $1 billion, $1.13 billion, and that is over 5 years. The question I have for you is, do you agree that there is a greater need for funding of multimodal projects? Mr. Patterson. Congressman, absolutely. One of the things that we know, AASHTO knows, is that as we have looked at the Federal program over the years, since the completion of the Interstate Highway System, we really don't have a goal, something to hang our hat on, if you will. We were hoping, and we believe, that this freight program is the next goal. It is imperative that we be able to move freight across this country, by rail, water. Mr. Lowenthal. I think you are doing it great. I just want to ask, because I have one more followup question and that is exactly what I wanted. Do you have anything more to add, for example, Mayor Reed? Do you believe it is imperative? Mr. Reed. The answer is absolutely. Mr. Lowenthal. OK. Now, I have a proposal that I first introduced in the 114th Congress, will be doing again, that puts a user fee, which is paid for by the owners of the goods, on the cost of shipping goods by road or rail in the United States to directly fund freight infrastructure. So a user fee paid by the owners of the goods to directly fund freight infrastructure. Maybe not this one, but would you support a similar proposal such as a user fee by the owners of goods to pay for freight infrastructure? Mr. Patterson. Several years ago, a group of us at AASHTO got together and we were looking at ways to fund transportation in the future. Congressman, that is exactly one of the things that we had come up with was an additional surcharge and user fee, however you would want to label it, for freight movements and dedicated to a freight system. Mr. Lowenthal. So it has to be dedicated. It would be sustainable paid by the users. It would be a dedicated funding stream to be used just for freight infrastructure. Would you support that, Mayor Reed? Mr. Reed. I don't know. I would have to have the full proposal to consider it. Mr. Lowenthal. OK. We are just talking about not so much a specific proposal, but just the concept that those who use the system would pay for the improvements in the system, dedicated, and some way to get both back to--you know, an appropriate way of distributing that fund. Mr. Patterson. Yes. Mr. Lowenthal. Thank you. And I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Mr. Lipinski. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I thank all of our witnesses for being here today. As we talk about the FAST Act, which I want to thank all the members of this committee on both sides, the chairman of the subcommittee, the chairman of the full committee, Mr. Shuster, our Ranking Member Norton, and Ranking Member DeFazio. We all worked well together in getting the FAST Act together and moved. I am hopeful that we can do the same thing on a new big $1 trillion or more than $1 trillion infrastructure plan. Things that have been talked about by the last few people, Members who have spoken, about Complete Streets, about transit, I think it is important that those are included in a new infrastructure package. The importance of freight movement that Mr. Lowenthal was just talking about, I think that is also very critical to do. I want to ask a question about something that I don't think anyone has yet asked about at this hearing about vehicle to infrastructure, or V2I technology and getting that into our infrastructure. So not only V2V, vehicle to vehicle, but V2I technology is vital for maximizing the benefits of autonomous and connected vehicles, you know, benefits such as brake safety improvements, less congestion on our roads, and also increasing the efficiency of our vehicles. So we really need to find creative ways to incentivize investment in vehicle infrastructure technology. We need to make targeted investments that best leverage capital, especially if we are going to be doing this big infrastructure package. Now, the FAST Act ensured that V2I infrastructure would remain eligible for funding, but we also need to consider Dig Once policies that promote installation of advanced systems that enable V2I during routine construction and maintenance projects, so we are not going back and doing it all over again. I have asked witnesses at previous hearings about the state of local--about State and local investments in this technology. And some have said that they have been hesitant to make investments, because of the lack of both industry standards and Federal guidance. In January, FHWA released a new V2I guidance document that can help transportation agencies understand the regional impacts of V2I deployment, prepare for emerging V2I and V2V technologies, and leverage Federal aid funds to deploy them. So after a long lead-up, I would just like to ask Mr. Patterson and Mr. Reed if you could discuss your experience with V2I technology, and whether or not there is sufficient Federal guidance to promote investments and what more can be done, so we make sure that we do prepare the infrastructure for this? Mr. Patterson, do you want to start? Mr. Patterson. Thank you, Congressman. I think, from an overall perspective and given the advances in technology, it has been good that the States have taken a slow methodical approach to integrating V2I into the system. When you look at-- technology doubles every year, and you look back 5 years ago when we really got into the discussion about V2I, it has changed. The guidance that came out is very helpful. We have several of our members who are very involved in leading the technology. I can tell you in Oklahoma, we are still learning. We are not as far advanced as some other States are in the discussion, but it is something we are beginning to understand and embrace. And it was that guidance and it is the support of AASHTO members that gets us to that point. Mr. Lipinski. And, Mayor Reed, do you have anything to add? Mr. Reed. Congressman, we are developing a Smart Corridor along North Avenue near Georgia Tech and by the Coca-Cola Company that will be really testing all of these technologies at once. So, much like my colleague, we are in the very early stages of it. Candidly, we have been putting a great deal more energy into self-driven vehicle technology and we have been slower on V2I. Mr. Lipinski. Is there anything the Federal Government can do to help to speed things along, make it easier for States and localities to do this? Mr. Reed. I think that rules of the road from Federal experts could shorten the learning curve for municipalities, because that is really the challenge for us. When these new kinds of technologies and relationships occur, we have to come up to speed on that and we have to put in a good amount of person power for that. So knowing where the Federal Government is going in the future in that regard would send an important signal to where we should be going. Mr. Patterson. I think that collaboration and cooperation is going to be very important, as the mayor said, as we begin to develop our system in Oklahoma and as other States expand their V2I capabilities. If you think about it, this is really a turning point for all of transportation. It is almost as extensive as going from the horse and buggy to the Model T. So it is something that we are very interested in and our customers, the public, is going to demand that kind of reaction from us. Mr. Lipinski. Thank you. I yield back. Mr. Graves of Missouri. Any other further questions? Seeing none, I would like to obviously thank our witnesses for your testimony today, because your contribution to today's discussion, it has obviously been very informative and very helpful. With that, I would ask unanimous consent that the record of today's hearing remain open until such time as our witnesses have provided any answers to any questions that may be submitted to them in writing; and unanimous consent that the record remain open for 15 days for additional comments and information submitted by Members or witnesses, to be included in the record of today's hearing. Without objection, that is so ordered. And if no other Members have anything to add, then the subcommittee stands adjourned. Thank you all. [Whereupon, at 12:05 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.] [GRAPHIC(S) NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT] [all]