[House Hearing, 115 Congress]
[From the U.S. Government Publishing Office]
TURKEY'S DEMOCRACY UNDER CHALLENGE
=======================================================================
HEARING
BEFORE THE
SUBCOMMITTEE ON EUROPE, EURASIA, AND EMERGING THREATS
OF THE
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
ONE HUNDRED FIFTEENTH CONGRESS
FIRST SESSION
__________
APRIL 5, 2017
__________
Serial No. 115-15
__________
Printed for the use of the Committee on Foreign Affairs
[GRAPHIC NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Available via the World Wide Web: http://www.foreignaffairs.house.gov/
or
http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/
______
U.S. GOVERNMENT PUBLISHING OFFICE
24-917 PDF WASHINGTON : 2017
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For sale by the Superintendent of Documents, U.S. Government Publishing Office,
http://bookstore.gpo.gov. For more information, contact the GPO Customer Contact Center,
U.S. Government Publishing Office. Phone 202-512-1800, or 866-512-1800 (toll-free).
E-mail, [email protected].
COMMITTEE ON FOREIGN AFFAIRS
EDWARD R. ROYCE, California, Chairman
CHRISTOPHER H. SMITH, New Jersey ELIOT L. ENGEL, New York
ILEANA ROS-LEHTINEN, Florida BRAD SHERMAN, California
DANA ROHRABACHER, California GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
STEVE CHABOT, Ohio ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GERALD E. CONNOLLY, Virginia
MICHAEL T. McCAUL, Texas THEODORE E. DEUTCH, Florida
TED POE, Texas KAREN BASS, California
DARRELL E. ISSA, California WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina AMI BERA, California
MO BROOKS, Alabama LOIS FRANKEL, Florida
PAUL COOK, California TULSI GABBARD, Hawaii
SCOTT PERRY, Pennsylvania JOAQUIN CASTRO, Texas
RON DeSANTIS, Florida ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
MARK MEADOWS, North Carolina BRENDAN F. BOYLE, Pennsylvania
TED S. YOHO, Florida DINA TITUS, Nevada
ADAM KINZINGER, Illinois NORMA J. TORRES, California
LEE M. ZELDIN, New York BRADLEY SCOTT SCHNEIDER, Illinois
DANIEL M. DONOVAN, Jr., New York THOMAS R. SUOZZI, New York
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., ADRIANO ESPAILLAT, New York
Wisconsin TED LIEU, California
ANN WAGNER, Missouri
BRIAN J. MAST, Florida
FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
THOMAS A. GARRETT, Jr., Virginia
Amy Porter, Chief of Staff Thomas Sheehy, Staff Director
Jason Steinbaum, Democratic Staff Director
------
Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats
DANA ROHRABACHER, California, Chairman
JOE WILSON, South Carolina GREGORY W. MEEKS, New York
TED POE, Texas BRAD SHERMAN, California
TOM MARINO, Pennsylvania ALBIO SIRES, New Jersey
JEFF DUNCAN, South Carolina WILLIAM R. KEATING, Massachusetts
F. JAMES SENSENBRENNER, Jr., DAVID N. CICILLINE, Rhode Island
Wisconsin ROBIN L. KELLY, Illinois
FRANCIS ROONEY, Florida
BRIAN K. FITZPATRICK, Pennsylvania
C O N T E N T S
----------
Page
WITNESSES
Mr. David L. Phillips, director, Program on Peace-Building and
Rights, Institute for the Study of Human Rights, Columbia
University..................................................... 6
Mr. Mehmet Yuksel, Representative to the United States, People's
Democratic Party in Turkey..................................... 19
Mr. Ali Cinar, president, Turkish Heritage Organization.......... 27
Ms. Naz Durakoglu, strategist and senior fellow, Digital Forensic
Research Lab, Atlantic Council................................. 45
LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARING
Mr. David L. Phillips: Prepared statement........................ 8
Mr. Mehmet Yuksel: Prepared statement............................ 21
Mr. Ali Cinar: Prepared statement................................ 29
Ms. Naz Durakoglu: Prepared statement............................ 48
APPENDIX
Hearing notice................................................... 64
Hearing minutes.................................................. 65
Ms. Naz Durakoglu: Revised prepared statement submitted after the
hearing........................................................ 66
Mr. David L. Phillips: Material submitted for the record......... 71
The Honorable Gerald E. Connolly, a Representative in Congress
from the Commonwealth of Virginia: Prepared statement.......... 77
Internet link for material submitted for the record by the
Honorable Dana Rohrabacher, a Representative in Congress from
the State of California, and chairman, Subcommittee on Europe,
Eurasia, and Emerging Threats.................................. 79
TURKEY'S DEMOCRACY UNDER CHALLENGE
----------
WEDNESDAY, APRIL 5, 2017
House of Representatives,
Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats,
Committee on Foreign Affairs,
Washington, DC.
The subcommittee met, pursuant to notice, at 2:18 p.m., in
room 2172, Rayburn House Office Building, Hon. Dana Rohrabacher
(chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Good afternoon. I call this hearing to
order. Today, we return our attention to the political
situation in Turkey. I could have waited 1 more minute. There
you go. Okay.
Today, we return our attention to the political situation
in Turkey. Those of you who have followed the work of this
subcommittee will note that this is a topic we have dedicated
significant time toward in the past. This has not been
motivated by malice, but a sincere desire to keep the United
States-Turkish relationship rooted firmly in shared interests
and shared values.
As we meet now, voting is already under way in a referendum
to rewrite the Turkish Constitution. Voting is expected to be
completed later this month on April 16. If adopted, the new
amendments to the Turkish Constitution will cement in law much
of the power President Erdogan has already seized for himself.
The new Constitution would see Turkey convert into a
Presidential system, combining the head of state, head of
government, and head of the ruling party all into a single
powerful office.
Once all that is done, the Prime Minister's leading
position will be eliminated. The President will be able to
select his own Vice Presidents and his own Cabinet. The power
of the legislature to check the executive branch would be
drastically reduced.
After reviewing the proposed changes and the Council of
Europe's Venice Commission, an advisory body of constitutional
experts, concluded that these amendments that are being voted
on by the Turkish people, ``represent a dangerous step
backwards,'' and that these changes put Turkey on a path
towards, and I quote, ``an authoritarian'' regime.
This referendum is the latest in a long list of actions
taken by the Turkish Government under Erdogan, and under
Erdogan, we have seen, basically, the civil society, closed
space for them; silencing the media; you have seen sidelining
of the judiciary; and a neutering of the military, of course.
I recognize the traumatic and unsettling nature of the
failed July coup, but Erdogan started down this path toward
authoritarianism long, long before that coup. President
Erdogan's desire to maintain power at any cost is not good for
the people of Turkey. It is not healthy for Turkey's democracy,
obviously. It is not in the interest of Turkey. And Erdogan, if
nothing else, is spoiling Turkey's relationship with Europe and
the United States and, alarmingly, has opened up Turkey to a
greater risk of attack by radical violent Islamists.
Lastly, while thousands of Turks have been unjustly fired
and arrested, forced abroad, I need to highlight one particular
case. And that is Reverend Andrew Brunson, an American citizen
who has been needlessly detained in Turkey since last year. In
February, I, along with 75 other Members of Congress, signed a
letter to President Erdogan requesting his release. Sadly, Mr.
Brunson remains in jail, and this case continues to be an
impediment to our relationship.
I want to thank all of our members for coming today. I
don't have many on my side of the aisle. I thank my Democratic
colleagues for joining us today. I am going to yield to Mr.
Meeks for his opening statement. Then each member will be
granted 1 minute for an opening statement. And then we will
hear from the witnesses.
Mr. Meeks.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Chairman Rohrabacher, and for the
opportunity to talk about the U.S.-Turkish relationship. I see
we have got a full audience today, and the timing is
interesting, as it is less than 2 weeks before the important
constitutional referendum.
The timing is also unfortunate because I know how
congressional hearings resonate in Turkey and are sometimes
used to misrepresent the feelings of Congress. I do hope that
this hearing helps foster better relations between our two
countries and does not fuel anti-American sentiment in Turkey
with either side.
Nevertheless, as someone who has visited Turkey several
times and loved Turkey and particularly the Turkish people, it
pains me to watch what is transpiring in that beautiful
country. The attempted coup that we discussed in our last
hearing in Turkey was a traumatic shock to the system. In the
aftermath, President Erdogan sought to rid the government
agencies of coup plotters, Gulenists and more, and what he has
actually done is overreached, and he is not respecting due
process or the basic tenets of democracy in what appears and is
a power grab.
And I have already heard from several members of my
community, in my constituency and folks from Queens, who are
very concerned about the democracy and how it will continue in
Turkey and whether or not those individuals who have been
jailed and were not given due process, what will happen to
them, and how long will this continue. This is of tremendous
concern to me.
Now comes another test: The upcoming referendum that
attempts to turn the Turkish Government into what is being
called a Presidential system. The question is, why now? Is
there a special need to formalize President Erdogan's power in
light of threats that are real or imagined? Regardless of the
outcome of the referendum, which seems to be hardly fair and
free, I do not see how Turkish democracy wins.
In either scenario, the economy will continue to suffer;
the brightest will continue to leave Turkey; and the space for
a liberal Turkey will become even smaller. And during this
difficult time, our Secretary of State paid a visit without
mentioning anything of the troubles I and our chairman have
outlined.
It is difficult to speak honestly with allies in trouble.
It is easier to skip that conversation and hide behind the
rhetoric of the war against ISIS.
I hope that Mr. Flynn, Mr. Michael Flynn's role, who was a
paid foreign agent in the Trump administration, has nothing to
do with the egregious silence on the state of democracy in
Turkey.
As I follow my former mayor's recent interest in Turkey, I
hope that Mr. Giuliani's work to protect Turkish bankers does
not seep into the Trump administration's position, for far too
much is at stake.
We are discussing a NATO ally, and it is best for the
United States that Turkey remain in NATO because a Turkey
without that anchor is left in a difficult region and--it is an
understatement--without support, without someone to work with
them in the difficult nature of democracy. Both NATO and the
U.S. have a tremendous opportunity and responsibility with our
ally Turkey in this regard.
And despite the crackdown on freedom of speech in the
Turkish press, despite the firing and jailing of tens, if not
hundreds of thousands, of public servants, and despite the fact
that this election will likely not be free and fair, people
still in Turkey are in the streets demonstrating. The Turkish
people are resisting and persisting in the face of great odds.
This is the hope that I want to keep alive. The Turkish
people care about their democracy. All you have to do is ask
them, and that is why they are in NATO, and that is why I am
here today to listen and to learn from our witnesses. And I
would like to thank Ms. Durakoglu for being here with us again.
I know she was up on the Hill and the State Department for a
while, and I just wanted to say I am happy to see you back here
on the Hill.
I yield back.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right. Mr. Sherman.
Mr. Sherman. A couple of notes.
Mr. Rohrabacher. 1 minute.
Mr. Sherman. A couple of notes on history.
Early in the 20th century, the Armenian people were subject
to a genocide that will be recognized here in this building
today. And Turkey would be a better ally of the United States
if we had a government that came to terms with its history
rather than one that tried to engage in genocide denial.
Early in the 21st century, Erdogan welcomed, or at least
turned a blind eye, to ISIS fighters going across Turkey, using
Turkey as a place for R&R and recuperation and medical
training, in part because they were fighting against Assad.
Now, he faces a blowback from the same ISIS fighters that he
once welcomed or at least gave safe passage to.
Erdogan is not a democratic leader. He is, as others have
pointed out, moving Turkey toward authoritarianism. That being
said, there is an effort to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as
a terrorist organization. I for one would want to make sure
that any such action did not include the AKP, which may have
some philosophical roots with the Brotherhood but is not, at
least at this stage, a terrorist organization.
I yield back.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Sires.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for holding today's
hearing to evaluate the challenges facing democracy in Turkey,
and thank you to our panelists for being here today.
While Turkey has been a strategic partner of the U.S. and a
key NATO ally in a volatile region, I am deeply troubled by the
actions of President Erdogan and his government following last
year's coup and the implications these actions have on the
future of democracy in Turkey.
Amid the atmosphere of distrust, Turkey's government has
detained or dismissed thousands--tens of thousands--of
personnel within its military, judiciary, and civil service,
and the education system, as well as taken over or closed
various businesses, schools, and media outlets. It is unclear
how long this type of purge will last, but it is imperative
that the U.S. and our European partners continue to press
Turkey to follow the rule of law.
The emerging relationship between Erdogan and Putin also
contributes to not only the uncertain future of U.S.-Turkey
relations but to the future of democracy in Turkey as well. In
less than 2 weeks, we will have a clearer picture of the
trajectory of democracy in Turkey when Erdogan's proposed
constitutional changes to increasingly consolidate his power
will be put to a vote.
Hopefully, the referendum will be held freely and fairly
without undue influence. The Turkish Government should take the
opportunity to, in these unstable times, to unite Turkey and
not to intensify division and mistrust. I look forward to
hearing from our esteemed panel of witnesses on their views of
the current events and the impact on the U.S.-Turkey
relationship, and thank you.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right. Thank you very much.
Mr. Cicilline.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you, Chairman Rohrabacher, and Ranking
Member Meeks for calling this important and timely hearing.
Turkey remains a key ally in the fight against ISIS yet has
had considerable challenges of its own in recent years.
President Erdogan has consolidated power in recent years,
culminating with the planned referendum this month that would
give him sweeping authority and jeopardize the Turkish
democratic system moving forward.
I am greatly concerned by Erdogan's government's use of
mass arrests of civil servants, critics, journalists,
academics, and anyone he perceives as an opponent. The
government's use of a state of emergency to carry out a
sweeping crackdown against anyone who dissents with his views
is counter to democratic values.
The Trump administration has thus far shown no willingness
to criticize the undemocratic and repressive tendencies of the
Erdogan government, a position which I fear will only lead to
further bad and destabilizing behavior. Moreover, 100 years
after the fact, the Turkish Government continues to deny its
well-established role in the Armenian genocide and continues to
target Armenian, Kurdish, and other minorities within its
borders.
As we approach the commemoration of the 102nd anniversary
of the Armenian genocide, it is my hope that this is the year
in which the American President will fully recognize the
atrocities perpetuated against the Armenian people by the
Ottoman Empire beginning in 1915.
The Armenian people deserve full recognition and acceptance
of their suffering. I look forward to today's testimony and to
having an opportunity to discuss these issues in more detail.
And I thank you and yield back.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you.
And Ms. Kelly.
Ms. Kelly. I pass.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right.
Well, I would like to welcome our witnesses today, and I
would ask if the witnesses could keep it down to 5 minutes and
please submit anything more than that for the record, and that
will be part of the record of this hearing.
I will introduce the witnesses, and then we will proceed
down the line. First is David Phillips as director of the
program on Peace-Building and Rights at Columbia University's
Institute for the Study of Human Rights. He is also the author
of a recently released book. There it is. I am a writer, and I
always wanted to have a book, but I haven't got one yet. But
thank you for sharing that with us today and the knowledge that
you gained. Your book is entitled, ``An Uncertain Ally,'' and
it is specifically about Turkey. So we appreciate you sharing
this expertise with us today as you did, sharing your talents,
as a foreign affairs expert and senior advisor at the State
Department.
We have with us also Mehmet Yuksel. I hope I am pronouncing
this correctly.
Mr. Yuksel. Mehmet Yuksel.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Yuksel, okay, why don't you pronounce it
for us?
Mr. Yuksel. Yuksel.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Yuksel. Okay. He is a representative of
the People's Democratic Party, or the HDP, in the United
States. He has spent his career working in the United States
and in Europe to promote conflict resolution between Turks and
the Kurdish minority. We appreciate you being with us today and
sharing your insights.
And Ali Cinar is President of the Turkish Heritage
Organization and has a long track record in terms of working on
U.S.-Turkey bilateral relations. He has been both a journalist
and a businessman and is well versed on the issues that we are
going to be discussing today.
And I am going to ask Naz to pronounce her last name for us
again.
Ms. Durakoglu. Durakoglu.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay.I am going to get it. All right. You
got it. If anybody can pronounce Rohrabacher correctly, I am
going to give them an award as well. She is a senior fellow at
the Atlantic Council's Digital Forensic Research Lab. She comes
to us having recently left the State Department. I remember her
having here on several occasions. She was a senior advisor on
Europe and Eurasia topics, and before that, she worked on
Capitol Hill, including as a minority staff director for this
subcommittee.
So welcome back, and we appreciate all of our witnesses.
We would start off with Mr. Phillips and then just say 5
minutes, and we will just go right down the line, and at that
point, we will up for dialogue between the members and the
witnesses.
So Mr. Phillips.
STATEMENT OF MR. DAVID L. PHILLIPS, DIRECTOR, PROGRAM ON PEACE-
BUILDING AND RIGHTS, INSTITUTE FOR THE STUDY OF HUMAN RIGHTS,
COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY
Mr. Phillips. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I would like to
address two falsehoods that define the U.S.-Turkey
relationship. The first is that Turkey is a secular democracy.
It is neither secular nor is it a democracy.
In 1998, Mr. Erdogan read a poem, ``The mosques are our
barracks, the domes are helmets, the minarets our bayonets, and
the faithful are soldiers.'' He was convicted to a 10-month
prison term for inciting hatred based on religious differences.
The other myth is that Turkey is an important member of
NATO. That may have been the case, but given the close
collusion between Turkey and jihadists, including the Islamic
State, beginning in 2013, there is serious cause for concern.
NATO is more than a security partnership. It is a coalition of
countries with shared values. Because Turkey today, under
Erdogan, is Islamist, antidemocratic, and hostile to human
rights, if NATO were being established, Turkey simply wouldn't
qualify as a member.
On the subject of Islamism, when the AKP won a resounding
electoral victory in July 2007, instead of addressing human
rights concerns or the Kurdish question, Erdogan introduced
legislation to permit the wearing of a hijab in public
institutions. Just 2 weeks ago, women were allowed to wear the
hijab in the military.
There is widespread corruption in Turkey. On December 17 of
2013, Mr. Erdogan was recorded speaking to his son about how to
dispose of tens of millions of dollars of assets, including
plans to buy luxury apartments on the Bosporus. There have been
50,000 WikiLeaks recordings of his son-in-law, Berat, colluding
with ISIS to sell oil from Syria, the proceeds of which, at its
peak, was generating $3 million a day and was used to support
the Islamic State.
Serious concerns exist about freedom of expression and
assembly. The 1991 law on the fight against terrorism is used
to silence critics. Article 8 of the Anti-Terror Act applies
selectively to restrict freedom of expression. Article 301 of
the penal code makes it a crime to denigrate Turkishness.
When Turks gathered in Gezi Park in May 2013 to protest
plans to build a shopping mall in a green space, they were
violently dispersed by riot police. Protests spread to 60
cities as a result of police brutality. There was scant media
coverage of the events while they were going on. Turkish
national television broadcast a documentary about the migration
of penguins.
Provocateurs were tracked after Gezi, and they were rounded
up. The national intelligence agency is allowed to gather
personal data without court order. By November 2016, Turkey has
more journalists in jail than any country in the world. In
fact, a third of all journalists that are jailed come from
Turkey. There are about 150 imprisoned. About 160 media outlets
have been closed.
On the transparency report of Twitter censorship, Turkey
ranks high for crackdown on social media. It was reported in
the Turkish media that President Erdogan called imprisoned
journalists terrorists, child molesters, and murderers.
Gag orders have been issued for specific activities,
including reporting on the transfer of weapons from Turkey to
Islamic State fighters. The editor in chief of Cumhuriyet was
sentenced to 5 years for reporting weapons transfers to Syria.
There is some contestation about Turkey's collusion with ISIS.
We have conducted an extensive research report, which I have
submitted to the committee for the record.
Let's remember that Fethullah Gulen and Tayyip Erdogan were
fast friends and partners. Their relationship soured and Gulen
was accused of running a parallel state, of orchestrating the
corruption crackdown in 2013. After the coup of July 15, 2016,
there was a systematic crackdown that you have referenced.
About 140,000 Turks have either been imprisoned or removed from
their positions. These include members of the security as well
as educators.
Turkey has become an outlier in Europe. The European
Parliament voted to suspend Turkey's EU membership negotiations
on November 24 of this year. When the Justice and Development
Party wanted to send ministers to campaign for the referendum
in Germany and in the Netherlands, they were not allowed to do
so because of security concerns. Erdogan responded to that by
calling Chancellor Merkel subject to Nazi measures. He
described the Dutch action and Dutch Government as Nazi
remnants and fascists. Recently a minister said that they would
launch jihad in Europe if they were not allowed to campaign
there, and they threatened to release 15,000 refugees a week
into Europe if Europe and Turkey continued to head south in
their relationship.
On minority rights, we will hear from Mr. Yuksel. Let me
just say that there are serious concerns about Greek issues and
Armenian issues. I chaired the Turkish Armenian Reconciliation
Commission for 4 years. There was a legal opinion issued
indicating that the events could be characterized as genocide.
Recently, Turkey has intensified its repression against
Armenians. It refused to submit the protocols on normalization
for ratification. On Greek issues, the Ecumenical Patriarch
still suffers great repression.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much.
Mr. Phillips. In our discussion, I will discuss some
recommendations with you.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Phillips follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
----------
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right. Thank you.
Mr. Yuksel.
STATEMENT OF MR. MEHMET YUKSEL, REPRESENTATIVE TO THE UNITED
STATES, PEOPLE'S DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN TURKEY
Mr. Yuksel. Dear Honorable Chairman Dana Rohrabacher and
distinguished members of the House subcommittee. It is an honor
for me to testify today on crucial development in Turkey.
I would like to discuss a few major threats to democracy in
Turkey and the rule of law.
The constitutional amendments that are proposed by
President Erdogan and AK Party project an authoritarian system
of governance whereby absolute power is held by a single
person. Even though the proposed constitutional amendments have
not been legally accepted, the amendments have been implemented
and practiced under the state's rule of emergency.
Let me list the several indication for extralegal and
single-person rule in the Kurdish area especially and against
the Kurdish political parties.
Since the failed coup attempt, July 2016, 11 HDP deputies
have been arrested and jailed, including co-chair Selahattin
Demirtas and Figen Yuksekdag. The freedom of speech that
democracy supports and Turkey's Constitution guarantees is the
basic allegation that co-chair Demirtas for what he is
subjected to over 500 years of detention.
Between July 2015 and March 2017, 8,930 HDP members were
detained and 2,782 party members have been imprisoned; 494 HDP
offices have been attacked, burned down, and vandalized,
including HDP headquarters. Rallies were attacked and law
enforcement support for these attacks has been widely
documented.
Around 10,000 municipality and humanitarian employees of
Kurdish origin have been suspended from their positions. The
government has also confiscated the monetary assets of the
people they remove from their positions. Almost all of the
media outlets protesting in Kurdish, both local and national
levels, were closed. Kurdish journalists are arrested and sent
to the prison. Even daycares where Kurdish is spoken have been
shut down by the government.
In the prisons, especially, the torture and ill-treatment
methods have mainly been widely practiced, and there is ongoing
hunger strike in the prisons for 50 days in some of the
prisons.
The number of internally displaced in southeastern Turkey
is estimated between--estimated about half a million people,
mainly the citizens of origin Kurdish. The humanitarian aid to
the IDP is very limited. All of the local humanitarian NGOs
have been shut down.
The governmental aid to IDPs is also conditioned upon
leaving their properties and lands, which will bring a
demographical change in the Kurdish-populated areas. Many
people have already left the areas.
The authorities have also imposed extended around-the-clock
curfews on 30 towns and neighborhoods, prohibiting any movement
without permission for extended periods of time, lasting up to
several months. These months-long around-the-clock curfews have
prevented civilians to evacuate the towns where the Turkish
military conducted the operation.
The lack of emergency services to the sick and wounded
ultimately contribute to a high toll of deaths in these
operations. In total, 2,000 people were killed during these
operations and under the curfew.
The public prosecutors have consistently refused to open an
investigation on the reported killings. Failure to conduct the
investigation of the killings is clear violation of
constitutional and international human rights laws.
In Cizre, 189 me, women, children were trapped in the
basements of the buildings that were heavily shelled by Turkish
security forces. These people did not have any access to water,
food, and medical attention. Even though the trapped were
calling for attention and help from the international community
via phone conversations and videos, they were burned alive by
the Turkish security forces.
The Kurdish cities, which has been attacked by the security
forces is Silvan--Sur, Silvan, Lice, Nusaybin, Dargecit, Cizre,
Silopi, Sirnak, Idil, and Yuksekova. Those towns have been
destroyed by the Turkish security forces. The images of the
destroyed Kurdish cities resemble Syria's civil war images,
which you have also a copy of the photo of some destructions.
On March 10, 2017, the United Nations Human Rights office
published a report detailing massive destruction, killings, and
numerous of other serious human rights violation committed by
Turkish forces between July 2015 and December 2016 in Turkey.
Honorable chairman and distinguished members of the House
subcommittee, my people in Turkey are going through a full-
scale assault, which could be viewed as a form of genocide. The
Turkish authorities have seen the Kurdish identity as the main
enemy. Fighting this enemy, they have been conducting a slow-
motion genocide.
I urge the United States House of Representatives to
authorize this concern, to launch an investigation on crimes
against humanity committed in southeastern Turkey and the
Kurdistan of Turkey; to take action to put further pressure on
Turkish authorities to respect democracy, rule of law, and
human rights; ensure the freedom of speech with releasing
thousands of political prisoners and journalists.
I also urge the House of Representatives committee to act
upon mediating peace talks and negotiation in Turkey to achieve
a peaceful political solution to the Kurdish issue in Turkey
and to encourage Turkish authorities to resume peace talks and
mediate the peace process and achieve a political solution.
With the approaching referendum on the constitutional
amendments, Turkish society has become further polarized across
different social and ethnic and sectarian groups. What has been
quite worrisome is the fact that the ruling AK Party has been
arming its supporters, and state authorities have been
encouraging attacks on dissident groups within the country.
If the situation in Turkey is not taken seriously and the
democracy and the rule of law----
[The prepared statement of Mr. Yuksel follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
----------
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much.
Mr. Cinar.
STATEMENT OF MR. ALI CINAR, PRESIDENT, TURKISH HERITAGE
ORGANIZATION
Mr. Cinar. Good afternoon, Chairman, Ranking Member, and
members of the subcommittee. It is an honor for me to testify
today.
I am sure everyone would agree that 2016 was a particularly
challenging year for Turkey and U.S. relations. There are
disagreements and tensions over two major security issues, U.S.
support of the PYD in Syria and Turkey's request for the
extradition of Fethullah Gulen.
Understanding Turkey's democracy that is under challenge
requires a comprehensive review of its domestic and regional
risks. Terrorism continues to be the Turkey's number one
security concern.
Overall, more than 270 people lost their lives in at least
12 major terror attacks by ISIS and PKK in Turkey, making 2016
a year of terror.
July 15 coup attempt, which was carried out by a faction
with the Turkish armed forces, took a considerable toll on the
Turkish nation. According to the Turkish Government, the coup
attempt was organized by Fethullah Gulen and his followers. The
Majority of Turkish people, including opponents of President
Erdogan, believe that Gulen was the organizer of the coup
attempt.
Gulen's network's influence of state institutions in Turkey
was a well-known fact. For the first time in its history,
Turkey, a country that is all too familiar with the periodic
military disruptions, was able to stop a military coup, but it
claimed 249 lives and injured over 2,000 people.
Turkey had survived an enormous threat and had to make
difficult choices in the aftermath of the coup attempt. The
emergency rule, which is still in effect, was aimed at taking
the necessary measures and eliminating the complex national
security risks that it created.
Turkey is gearing up for a historical referendum on April
16 when voters will decide whether or not to approve
constitutional amendments that will shift Turkey's current
parliamentary system to an executive Presidency. Upcoming
referendum is an attempt by the Turks to start a new chapter, a
chapter that doesn't involve any military imposed constitution.
Under the proposed changes to the Constitution, the
President will be elected directly by the people with more than
50 percent of the votes, which means that there will be a
better representation of the national will. The Turkish
Parliament will remain involved in the political process and
able to investigate the President, if needed.
Considering the challenges Turkey faces, my understanding
is that the proposed changes will set the foundation for a more
stable and secure Turkey. Don't we, the United States, need a
much stronger ally in the region?
The Kurdish issue. Since 1980, Turkey has been experiencing
a violent conflict with the Kurdistan Workers' Party. PKK is
classified as a terrorist organization by United States, NATO,
and European Union. The fight between the PKK and the Turkish
state cost more than 40,000 lives.
When looking at the Kurdish issue in Turkey today, it is
important to separate Turkey's Kurdish population from the PKK
terrorist group. There are concerns about certain HDP members
maintaining links to PKK or otherwise supporting the terrorist
group, such as in case of some HDP members attending the
funerals of PKK terrorists, meeting at their base camp in
Kandil, and posing photos. It must also be remembered that,
despite a base that is broadly Kurdish, the HDP is not de facto
representative of all Kurds in Turkey.
Freedom of expression and the media constitute an important
pillar of human rights in Turkey. It is a fundamental freedom
guaranteed under the Constitution and other relevant
legislation. It is important to note that the post-coup-attempt
state of emergency has required extraordinary actions in order
to ensure the stability and security of Turkey. Those
journalists who have been detained or arrested under the state
of emergency have been charged with serious crimes, which
include spreading propaganda for terrorist organizations such
as PKK and FETO.
Domestic remedies exist for those who believe they have
been wrongfully suspected in antiterrorism investigations. The
Inquiry Commission on the State of Emergency Measures addresses
the applications from citizens who feel they have been
wrongfully persecuted. This provides an effective domestic
legal remedy to any false accusations.
U.S.-Turkey relations are more important now than ever.
Turkey and Turkish democracy is experiencing an exceptional
period of stress due to the security concerns. A weaker
destabilized Turkey will be a disaster not just for citizens of
Turkey but for Europe, NATO, and U.S. As Joint Chiefs Chairman
General Dunford said during an Ankara visit, an express
willingness to work through these issues and share perspectives
will mean stability in the region.
The U.S. remains the ideal example of such democracy, and
it is important now more than ever that Washington and Ankara
maintain and improve their strategic and historic relationship
in order to ensure the security of both their countries.
I would like to thank you again, Mr. Chairman and the
committee members, for giving me the opportunity to be a part
of this hearing today.
[The prepared statement of Mr. Cinar follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
----------
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much.
And we wanted to make sure that we had somewhat of a
balance to this hearing, and that is always important to have
at least one point of view that differs.
And we thank you for coming today. And knowing that that is
a challenge in today's society, to step forward with your
testimony, we appreciate it very much.
You may proceed.
STATEMENT OF MS. NAZ DURAKOGLU, STRATEGIST AND SENIOR FELLOW,
DIGITAL FORENSIC RESEARCH LAB, ATLANTIC COUNCIL
Ms. Durakoglu. Thank you, Chairman Rohrabacher, Ranking
Member Meeks, and members of the committee. It is an honor to
testify before you both as a witness and a former staffer on
this committee under Congressman Bill Keating.
Congressman Bill Keating's commitment to public service and
my work with all of you continues to be an inspiration to me.
The Turkish referendum on April 16 should not be viewed as
a standalone domestic event; rather, a critical moment in
Turkey's history with wider implications for the transatlantic
community and NATO alliance.
The vote comes at a time of heightened fear, polarization,
and trauma for Turks, who have endured one of the deadliest
years in their recent history, a failed coup on July 15, and a
subsequent purge of institutions across Turkey.
This environment colors the constitutional package at the
center of the referendum. If passed, Turkey's parliamentary
structure would change into a Presidential system with few
checks and balances. I detail these changes in my written
testimony but would like to emphasize that under the proposed
constitution, the new President would exercise almost complete
executive control with the ability to appoint and dismiss all
ministers with no legislative buy-in.
Further, the proposed amendments weaken instead of
strengthen the Turkish judiciary and give the President the
power to appoint two-thirds of the country's senior judges. No
matter the outcome, Turkey's partners must prepare to engage
with the Turkish state that is in battle for its future.
The four key areas to watch are transatlantic security,
energy cooperation, economic prosperity, and democratic values.
Having the second largest military in the NATO alliance, Turkey
has a profound influence on international security matters. The
use of Turkey's Incirlik Air Base allows for 25 percent more
strikes against ISIS in Syria, and much of the United States'
humanitarian aid work there is based out of Turkey.
Last week, Secretary Tillerson visited Turkey to discuss
the campaign against ISIS in Raqqa. The final assault on Raqqa
has stalled over a disagreement on which forces to use. The
U.S. would prefer to see Raqqa taken by a coalition of Arab and
Kurdish YPG units, collectively known as the Syrian Democratic
Forces. Because Turkey considers the YPG an extension of the
banned PKK, the Turkish Government is proposing to use its own
military and a mix of local Arab partners to take back Raqqa.
Since the SDF has proven to be a reliable force on the
ground in Syria and given no viable alternative, the United
States will most likely back the SDF option. However, it
appears to be waiting for the outcome of Turkey's referendum
before making any announcement.
While President Erdogan would have additional control over
the Turkish military if the referendum passes, it is unclear
how he will react to this decision. The buildup to the
referendum has also instigated worrying diplomatic roads
between Europe and Turkey. The tension between these two
critical partners of the U.S. may result in long-term damage to
Turkey's EU prospects and to NATO's common defense community.
If emboldened by a victory, President Erdogan may seek to
test Europe's limits further and bring Turkey's EU candidacy to
a halt. A loss in the referendum fueled by conspiracies about
European intervention may be just as detrimental. Regardless,
NATO allies will need to work to steady relations between all
partners.
The outcome of the Turkish referendum can also impact
regional energy cooperation. The dynamic of Turkey's influence
on the Cyprus reunification process and the negotiations'
implications on the eastern Mediterranean's gas reserves is of
note. A successful referendum could empower some Turkish
nationalists in the MHP who helped usher the package through
Parliament in January. Their views on Cyprus and the Turkish
military presence there may spoil a potential agreement.
It is not clear if President Erdogan will follow MHP's lead
after the referendum. What is clear, however, is that once the
referendum is over, Turkey will have more time and attention to
focus on Cyprus. If a deal is reached, reconciliation between
Turkish and Greek Cypriots can occur, and Mediterranean gas can
flow into the European market.
The last two international considerations surrounding
Turkey's referendum are economic prosperity and democratic
ideals, which go hand in hand. Turkey experienced growth and
economic stability early on under President Erdogan. Recently,
the AK Party government's indifference toward democratic
institutions, rule of law, and freedom of expression has
undercut Turkey's lasting prosperity.
It is difficult to foresee how a consolidation of power
away from the judiciary and into the executive would enhance
the democratic principles needed for an open trade-based
economy. The only way to bring about more certainty in the
Turkish economy is if checks and balances are restored and
maintained.
Turkey has always been strongest when it comes close to the
ideal of a liberal democratic society where all voices are
tolerated. For this reason, Turkey's partners must address
challenges to democratic norms head on. Only direct U.S.
engagement, a true partnership, and conversation about Turkey's
commitment to democratic ideals can deter worse behavior,
enhance global security, and bring Turkey to the table on
critical issues.
In order to be taken seriously, the West must also hold
true to its own democratic values and principles. If attacks
against the press, unethical behavior, or disregard for
democratic institutions becomes commonplace, it will be
difficult to make the case of their importance in Turkey and
other countries.
Mr. Chairman, Ranking Member Meeks, members of this
committee, thank you again for your careful attention to U.S.-
Turkey relations. I look forward to your questions.
[The prepared statement of Ms. Durakoglu follows:]
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
----------
Mr. Rohrabacher. And thank all of you for your testimony
today.
The Chairman will start the questions, and then we will
proceed with the rest of the members.
Let me start. The contrast between our two central
witnesses here was dramatic in terms of the picture that was
being painted.
Let me just ask: Mr. Cinar, you mentioned that freedom of
expression and the press in Turkey is something that Turkish
people cherish and over the years have expected to live with,
and there are certain guarantees of that freedom. But yet you
did recognize that, today, there has been a wave of
suppression, freedom of speech. There has been a wave of
destruction, freedom of the press, but you mentioned you really
put that fault on the state of emergency, which is a result of
the coup attempt.
My question for you, Mr. Cinar, is, what about the
newspapers that were closed up and the journalists that were
arrested and kicked out of their job long before the coup? We
have been hearing reports. This committee has had a number of
hearings on Turkey. I have always tried to be fair, make sure
both sides are represented, but we had testimony in our very
first hearing on Turkey long before the coup attempt.
So how can you excuse the suppression of freedom of the
press and expression, excuse it by saying ``the coup'' and
blaming that on the military then when it was happening long
before there was a coup? Go right ahead.
Mr. Cinar. Chairman, that is a great question.
I mean, the freedom of press, yes, Turkey has some problems
on freedom of press, but investigations aren't due to their
journalistic work but due to their support and link to
terrorist organizations. So, when you look at, overall, some
journalists and reporters are making propaganda of Fethullah
Gulen before the coup and as well as PKK terrorist
organization, and also some of the journalists also were
sharing intelligence information to the public, which is
illegal through the Constitution.
And, also, I would like to highlight as an example
journalist newspapers like Zaman. In 2010, there were some
cases to the secular groups, and some of the secular
journalists were in prison and set up with FETO. Most of them
are jailed for many years. At that time, right now, the
Gulenists are complaining about freedom of press, but in 2010
and before, the Gulenists newspapers be quiet, and they were
supportive of the freedom of press.
So it seems like there is a double standard on what kind of
freedom of press we are understanding. As I said, and I would
like to give an example. Several thousand newspapers and
journalists----
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Cinar, we will submit that for the
record.
Mr. Cinar. Sure.
Mr. Rohrabacher. And let me just note that someone else's
double standard doesn't excuse the current government's
suppression before and after the coup of freedom of the press.
Because someone else had a double standard doesn't mean that is
an excuse.
Mr. Cinar. I totally agree, Chairman. I mean, as I said
from my--at the beginning, there are some problems on freedom
of speech, but when you look at, overall, 7,000 newspapers and
journalists, 200 TV stations, 1,000 radio stations, I mean,
still there is freedom at some point that Turkey is operating
and journalists are able to criticize President Erdogan and his
party. But the reporters or journalists are linked to terrorist
organizations; they are face, you know, to crime.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Some may well be linked because someone
has made that report and claimed a link. We have had four
hearings on this now, and in the original hearings, what became
clear is that certain journalists had lost their jobs shortly
after they had reported on corruption of President Erdogan's
family and appointees, which does not just jive with an excuse
that there is not an overall attempt to suppress speech.
To your knowledge, were there people who were reporting
corruption in the Erdogan government? Were they arrested in the
beginning and kicked out of their job?
Mr. Cinar. I mean, my understanding is--I am not well
knowledge on this, that I can't say there was a corruption or
not.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay. You can't answer that. All right.
Well, let's go back. Just to be fair, Mr. Phillips, you
mentioned that women were now being allowed to wear the hijab
in a government office, and before they haven't been permitted.
I don't think that is an indication of radical Islam: Letting
women make a choice.
Now, if they were forced to wear the hijab and they were
forced to do that, that would be a sign that the people had
gone overboard and that that was radical Islam.
But, Mr. Phillips, do you have data that suggests that
President Erdogan and his regime have actually sold oil from
Syria. Are you trying to suggest to us today--and please say it
outright if you can--that under Erdogan, the Turkish Government
has been providing the resources to terrorist organizations
that have been murdering people throughout the Middle East?
Mr. Phillips. Yes, that is precisely what I am saying.
There were 57,000 emails that had been released linking the
Erdogan family directly to the sale of ISIS-controlled oil.
Mr. Rohrabacher. And that money went to do what?
Mr. Phillips. That money, which totaled, at its peak, $3
million a day, went to ISIS to support its caliphate
operations, which is used to kill people and to target
Westerners.
Mr. Rohrabacher. And do you think that, Mr. Cinar's
observations--his right to his opinion--but do you think that
the fact that you just stated, meaning money that is being
syphoned off by the very top of the government and going to
terrorists, do you think that had anything to with Erdogan's
decision to suppress certain news outlets and to make sure that
the press was notified that there would be a price to pay if
certain criticism was heard?
Mr. Phillips. Any journalist in Turkey who reports on
corruption linking the family to ISIS activities is assured of
losing their job and going to jail. We saw that in the case of
the Cumhuriyet editor in chief and their foreign affairs
editor, both of whom received more than 5-year sentences for
reporting on the national intelligence agency's transfer of
weapons to Islamic State fighters across the jihadi highway
from Sanliurfa to Raqqa, which was a well-known fact,
extensively documented.
Mr. Rohrabacher. I will move on to Mr. Meeks, but let me
just thank the witnesses. I think I may have a second round,
but better get my colleagues their first round.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Let me start with Ms. Durakoglu. Now, foreign policy is
very difficult, and Turkey is in a very difficult part of the
world, and I am trying to figure out with interrelationships
with other governments, and et cetera, how we can make sure
that the best interest of the United States and actually the
best interest of others, whether it is the--those in NATO and
EU, how we figure this thing out.
I am really concerned about--because I think your testimony
was absolutely correct, that if I am to stand true to myself, I
can't ignore human rights violations and individuals being
penalized and put in prison without due process or anything of
that nature. But I can't advocate for Turkey to be removed from
NATO or anything of that nature because they are a vital ally,
especially in that region.
So, in your opinion, is there any low-hanging fruit in a
U.S.-Turkey cooperation and the political security or economic
fronts, something that we can do? You know, because Syria is
right there, and we will talk about Syria and talk about--that
is my second question. Let me just ask that first.
Ms. Durakoglu. Thank you for your question. I think your
question actually hits the complexity of the relationship. You
are absolutely right. There are definitely serious domestic
concerns within Turkey. However, there is reason for the United
States and for NATO, in particular, which Turkey is an ally, to
be cooperating at all times. Part of it is the geographic
location of Turkey itself.
In terms of your question about low-hanging fruit, before I
mention that, I would just say President Erdogan has
demonstrated that he appreciates continual contact with other
leaders. And sometimes I think in the structure that Turkey
represents at this point, the message that we might be sending
as the United States over to Turkey may not be making its way
up. So direct communication is key, even though it might be
uncomfortable at times.
In terms of low-hanging fruit, I alluded to this in my
testimony, but what seems to be at the forefront of our
relationship with Turkey at the moment is what is going to
happen with the Raqqa campaign in Syria, and the United States
is moving in a direction to work with the Syrian Democratic
Forces, which does include YPG elements, which Turkey is highly
uncomfortable with.
I think some communication there, more regular contact.
Secretary Tillerson was just in Turkey to be able to discuss
this. However, without an end game or an end point in Syria on
our side, it is difficult to imagine what is going to end up
happening with Raqqa, with the forces the United States may
choose to use there. So it is difficult to explain to a NATO
ally like Turkey that we are going to go ahead with this
option; however, we don't necessarily know what is going to
come of it, and you obviously have serious concerns.
So I think closer communication is definitely key, and
then, of course, economic cooperation. This is something that
the Turks raise often, I know, here in Congress as well. That
could also be helpful.
But continually raising the issues of Turkey's domestic
politics and the people that are being persecuted
unnecessarily, that is key, too. That can't be ignored.
Mr. Meeks. So we have got have those face-to-face honest
dialogues with our allies.
Ms. Durakoglu. Absolutely.
Mr. Meeks. When we think they are wrong and when we think
they are right.
You mentioned Syria. You know, as the chemical weapons were
released yesterday, that is concerning to me. This is
complicated stuff, and I don't think that the United States can
do--I didn't think that, under President Obama--and I know you
worked during the Obama administration--I don't think that he
could have done anything by himself or in this country, nor do
I think that Donald Trump can.
So the question then becomes the relationships that--in the
region. So I believe it was Turkey that shot down a Russian jet
some time ago. And so what is the relationship now between
Turkey and Russia and Iran and the whole Syria thing? All of
that is intertwined. How does that work?
Ms. Durakoglu. That is a really interesting question and
one that I know Turkey watchers are continually examining,
particularly the relationship between Turkey and Russia. The
incident you mention happened in November 2015 where the
Russian warplane was shot down when it impeded Turkish
airspace. And it led to a break in relations between Turkey and
Russia and very heated talk. Sanctions actually came into play
as well.
Since then, I know that President Erdogan around June 2016
extended an olive branch. They tried to make things better. To
be quite frank, the situation--the energy situation in Turkey
demands that they do have a sort of cooperation as well as the
tourism industry. There are a lot of Russian tourists that go
to Turkey.
So I know that Russia and Turkey are working on that
relationship. They have had four high-level meetings, most
recently earlier in March as well. And that is what we were
talking about earlier. Russians are offering them more economic
cooperation. There are discussions about Syria. However, when
you look on the ground in Syria, suddenly there is a very
different picture where Russians are obviously not cooperating
with the Turks. So I don't know how long that relationship
between Turkey and Russia will last.
Mr. Phillips. Mr. Meeks, could I add to that answer,
please?
Mr. Meeks. All right.
Mr. Phillips. I would like to recognize that the North
Atlantic Council established something called a Membership
Compliance Review. There are very strict criteria for getting
into NATO. There is no process for kicking anybody out.
Annually, each member of NATO should be subject to review of
their democracy and human rights practices, and if they receive
a failing score for 2 years in a row, then their membership
should be suspended. This wouldn't only affect countries likes
Turkey, but also Hungary would also be under review.
And on the subject of Incirlik that we have heard so much
about, yes, Incirlik is an important forward air base, but
there are other options. Turkey always holds Incirlik use over
our heads. There are bases in Jordan, in Kuwait, in Iraqi
Kurdistan. There are British bases in Cyprus. So we can
diversify our combat air operations without losing our capacity
in the fight against ISIS.
Mr. Meeks. Thank you.
I am out of time.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you very much.
Mr. Sires.
Mr. Sires. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
You know, I always think that Turkey has this attitude. If
we support an Armenian resolution--and I remember when we had
the resolution here in Congress, the pressure that was borne,
some of the people that supported it, you would think you were
going to go to jail.
If you support arming the Kurdish fighters that are
fighting ISIS, there is going to be dire consequences. And if
you don't return Gulen, they are going to make the U.S.
disappear.
I really think that, Mr. Cinar, when you talk about jailing
or purging one-third of the journalists in the country, it is a
little strong.
I mean, this reminds me of my country when I was a boy.
When the Communists took over, this is how they started. So, to
me, I mean, this is somebody grabbing for power, and you have
this effort where they took over 600 businesses. I mean, what
did the businesses have with these generals? To me, it looks
like somebody went out there and tried to get some of the
better businesses for some of the family members or themselves.
So there is just a couple of things here that do not jive in my
point of view.
And as far as NATO is concerned, I would hate to depend on
Turkey in a crunch the way they have been moving the last few
years.
And, Mr. Phillips, my question to you is, if this
resolution, if this amendment to the Constitution does not
pass, where do you--you know, which I doubt it is not going the
pass, from what I am hearing, where do you see Turkey going?
Mr. Phillips. There are 12 credible public opinion polls
that have been taken about the referendum. Eight of them say
that the ``no'' campaign is going to win. If, in fact, the
votes are stolen or there is an international opinion that the
conditions for the referendum were not free and fair, this is
going to fuel divisions in Turkey, and we could see social
cohesion fall apart and violence become widespread.
That is why it is important for international monitors to
be on the ground to verify the voting conditions. We also have
to recognize that if this referendum is approved one way or
another, Turkey's aspirations of joining the EU are over. It
will not be a European country. It will be increasingly inward
looking. And as Turkey becomes inward looking, it will be less
reliable to the United States. We always talk about Turkey's
role fighting the Islamic State. I think that this is a
misnomer. We need to recognize that Turkey hasn't fought the
Islamic State; it has abetted the Islamic State with money,
with weapons, with health care, all of which is well
documented. We need to see things as they are, not as we wish
them to be or how they used to be.
Mr. Sires. Mr. Cinar, where do you see Turkey going if this
fails?
Mr. Cinar. Congressman, first of all, for the human rights,
I would like to give you some examples before I jump to where
Turkey is going. And also we need to respect the Turkish
people. There is a government that is democratically elected,
and the referendum is coming up, including all opposition
parties right now. The election is going to be crystal clear,
and everybody needs to respect the election.
Regarding the human rights----
Mr. Sires. So you are comfortable that this is going to be
an honest election?
Mr. Cinar. Yes.
Mr. Sires. There is not going to be any interference by the
Erdogan government?
Mr. Cinar. Correct. In the last election, the November
election, Congressman, all opposition parties agreed it was a
noncorrupted election.
Regarding the human rights, as I submitted----
Mr. Sires. No Russian interference in the election?
Mr. Cinar. Hopefully not.
Let me talk about human rights and freedom of press. As an
example, before the coup, July 13, one of the Gulen
journalists, said, ``Busted in bed, hung by dawn.'' Or another
one: ``You just wait and see what is to come.'' Another one:
``Good times are just around the corner. How I wish I were a
colonel today and not professor. Then I would have much more to
contribute to this process.''
Mr. Sires. What am I looking at here?
Mr. Cinar. So these are the journalists of Gulen. So they
were promoting the coup.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Unfortunately, votes have just been
called. Could you please put those in for the record of this
hearing?
Mr. Cinar. Sure.
Mr. Rohrabacher. We will submit that.
We have about 15 minutes at the most. So we have 10
minutes. I would ask my colleagues to have about 3 minutes each
for their questions. We will try to get you in.
Mr. Keating. Actually, Mr. Cicilline was here first.
Mr. Cicilline. No, Mr. Keating was.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Keating, go right ahead. You have the
time. Quit being too gentlemanly.
Mr. Keating. I think that Ms. Durakoglu made four pillars,
if you will, that we should be focused on. My discussions with
representatives of Turkey since I have been in Congress have
really come back to economic cooperation. There was a great
deal of interest when there was interest in the TTIP agreement.
Every discussion I had virtually centered on that.
Now, with the failure of our trade agreements, I do hope
there is a chance for even a bilateral EU and U.S. agreement.
How important would that be, really, to find some inducement
for Turkey to have more open discussions with the West and with
the U.S.?
Ms. Durakoglu. Thank you, Congressman.
That is hugely important. You are 100 percent right. And I
know you were very active on that issue at the time. I think,
at the time, Turkey was nervous about the TTIP agreement and
being left out of the economic prosperity that might take
place. But there was a parallel conversation with Turkey about
how they can potentially benefit. And they were engaged, and
the United States was engaged in that conversation as well. So,
as long as that carrot is there, that is very important to
bring Turkey to the table, because I am of the opinion, with
all due respect to all the viewpoints represented here, that
are very important, but they need to continually be more
exposed to our ideals as well as our thinking and to be able to
understand that we do want what is in the best interest of
Turkey, including more freedoms for their people there.
Mr. Keating. Is there any way to ascertain what the feeling
of the Turkish people, what it really was about the coup
itself? We heard so much about the coup. But what about people,
the general population? Is there any way to get a sense of how
they perceived that?
Ms. Durakoglu. Yes. There have been several polls. And,
unfortunately, there is not a very positive picture to paint
there. A lot of the polls--they do overwhelmingly believe that
this was a Gulen-orchestrated coup. And many--and,
unfortunately, I don't have the exact figure with me--but many
also believe that either the Central Intelligence Agency or the
United States was behind this, which is wrong across the board.
But that is a prevailing view, unfortunately, in Turkey.
Mr. Keating. I will yield because of the rollcall. Thank
you.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Mr. Cicilline?
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you. Ms. Durakoglu, I appreciated your
testimony, other than that reference to how Mr. Keating
inspired you.
Thank you to the witnesses.
What I am interested to know is, with respect to the
treatment of journalists and academics and opposition leaders,
Mr. Phillips, would you just tell us what your assessment is
with respect to the imprisonment of journalists and the
conditions in which they are being imprisoned and whether in
fact they are primarily people who have disclosed classified
documents and the like? What is the real situation in Turkey
right now with respect to opposition leaders and journalists?
Mr. Phillips. Freedom House says there is no press freedom.
According to Freedom House, Turkey does not have press freedom.
Turkey uses legislation as the basis for arresting journalists.
The idea that almost 2,000 journalists would have been arrested
because they insulted the President to me represents a
crackdown on freedom of expression. Using items in the penal
code and the Anti-Terror Act to suppress debate is also a
violation of freedom of expression.
So we should just deal with the facts. Right now, more
journalists are in jail in Turkey than in any other country in
the world, more than China, more than Iran. A third of the
journalists in the world who are in jail are in jail in Turkey.
What conditions they are experiencing there, I can't say. But I
do know that the rule of law in Turkey is an instrument to
suppress oppositionists.
Mr. Cicilline. Thank you.
The other question I have is you did a significant amount
of research about the role of Turkey both in assisting with
logistics and transportation, support and training of ISIS
fighters. Could you speak a little bit to that?
And then my last question to other members of the panel is,
what is the likelihood that in the context of the continued
state of emergency that a referendum can be held which is free
and fair and something upon which the international community
and the Turkish people can rely?
Mr. Phillips. So we were not able to use primary sources
for our research because we weren't on the ground in Syria. We
used credible secondary sources. We referred to Vice President
Joe Biden's remark at Harvard, where he said that Turkey was
the primary sponsor of ISIS. And then, through our research
teams in Turkey, looking at Turkish language reporting in
Europe and in North America, we came up with scores of credible
reports that Turkey was involved in providing weapons,
financing, logistics, serving wounded warriors in hospitals in
Turkey. So there is ample evidence.
Meanwhile, we hear constant protests from President Erdogan
that Turkey is being misrepresented. I think the protests
should be coming from the United States that Turkey, a NATO
ally, is aiding and abetting a terrorist organization.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you.
Ms. Kelly.
Ms. Kelly. Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms.--I hope it pronounce it right--Durakoglu?
Ms. Durakoglu. That is right.
Ms. Kelly. I am concerned with, after the constitutional
referendum, I am concerned with the weakening of the
independent branches of government because there are few checks
and balances in place now. And, also, how will the minority
populations be affected, as well as will there be any effect on
military independence?
Ms. Durakoglu. Thank you, Congresswoman.
Yes, that is a concern. It is also a concern expressed by
the Venice Commission that looked at the package of amendments.
In terms of the judiciary, I think that some of the greatest
changes in the constitutional package take place there. As I
alluded to in my testimony, about two-thirds of Turkey's senior
judges can now be appointed by the President. And, further,
there is a body that actually deals with both prosecutors and
judges in Turkey. And they end up dealing with judiciary
issues, as well as appointing judges, and the President can
appoint a significant amount of those members as well.
That all being said, there have been some studies on the
referendum and the package of amendments, and some of them in
English actually. And there is the potential to still abide by
checks and balances. It really does come down to the President
under this new Presidency to be able to maintain that balance.
So I know that there are some with the hope that President
Erdogan, who will most likely be the President under this new
system, be able do that. But when you look at it on paper and
all those who have analyzed it, they have a rather bleak view
of the separation.
And for minority issues, I would defer to my colleague from
the HDP.
Mr. Yuksel. The situation is very hard because, especially
with this situation, they shut down the television, which was
transmitting only cartoons for the children in Kurdish. And
after a lot of pressure, they allowed. So, even with a lot of
translation in Turkish, or should be more than 60 percent in
Turkish, that is how the minorities live right now, on the
front of an assimilation. And other minorities numerically are
less, and they are under huge pressure. And, plus, the Alawites
in Turkey are under huge pressure because they see the regime
changing more and more as an Islamic regime and without any
law, like Iran, and they are afraid that they will be the next
target.
Mr. Cinar. Congresswoman?
Mr. Rohrabacher. Excuse me. You got your minute because you
are here, and we appreciate you giving the other side. But we
are going to have to be out of here in a couple minutes. So 1
minute. What do you got?
Mr. Cinar. Sure. Congresswoman, Chairman, I wish at least
we can see a little bit appreciation of Turkey's fight against
ISIS. And I will be submitting some documents that U.S.
Pentagon also said there is no evidence between ISIS and
Turkey. And Turkey lost 72 security personnel on the ground and
1,000 ISIS terrorists neutralized by Turkish army in Syria's
operation.
And also, regarding the human rights, and I would like to
ask you a question, you have a look at some HDP members here
that are promoting PKK at their meetings. Can you imagine a
Congressman speaking----
Mr. Rohrabacher. You want to put that in the record?
Mr. Cinar. Sure.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Okay.
Mr. Cinar. Can you imagine a Congressman attending an ISIS
leader's event and promoting the terrorist organization? So
this is a big problem for Turkey. It is a national security
risk.
Mr. Rohrabacher. All right. Thank you very much.
I am sorry. We only have got 2 minutes or 3 minutes to go
because we have to go vote.
Do you have a 1-minute closing statement, Mr. Meeks?
Mr. Meeks. I want to say real quickly, number one, I want
to thank the witnesses for your testimony. I want to thank the
chairman for the diversity of the witnesses that you presented.
I think you got thoughts from all sides.
For me, this is a very difficult, difficult period, a
difficult decision. A lot to look at. And as I said in my
opening statement, the key to me is, the bottom line, the one
that I have ultimate belief in is the Turkish people. So I
should hope that the Turkish people--that is where I keep my
hope--that I will stand with them. I will try to make sure,
where I see atrocities, I will speak up and speak out. But I
believe that the Turkish people will stand up. And as I have
seen the brave ones still on the streets now protesting and
doing what they think is necessary and others who may be on the
other side, because ultimately that is what makes the
difference, the Turkish people.
Mr. Rohrabacher. Thank you, Mr. Meeks.
And I would echo that sentiment. The Turkish people are
voting on whether they want to have a tough, strong,
centralized power controlling their government or whether they
want to have more of a loose freedom and exchange. Obviously,
we don't think they should overlook this incredible suppression
of the press and of disagreements and dissidents that now is in
place in Turkey as compared to the last 15 or 20 years in
Turkey's history. Let me note that one of my colleagues said we
don't know if we can rely on Turkish people to back us up. The
bottom line: The whole Cold War, the Turkish people were the
friends of the United States. We could count on them. They
fought in Korea. They were part of the deterrent that prevented
the Soviet Union from thinking they could come down and attack
all of Europe.
The Turkish people are going to the polls right now to
decide, will they be friends of the West and the United States?
Will they be a friend of the United States? And will they have
a radical-oriented government, an Islamic-oriented government,
a terrorist-oriented government in power in Turkey, or will
they be friends of the United States and have more of a
democratic future? That will be determined.
I agree with Mr. Meeks; we are on the side of the people of
Turkey. Please, I would hope that they hear our plea, remain
our friend. Don't go to the polls and then basically join in
this negation of a friendship that has lasted so long and done
so much well for the people of the United States and the people
of Turkey.
With that, I say thank you very much. We have to go vote.
[Whereupon, at 3:34 p.m., the subcommittee was adjourned.]
A P P E N D I X
----------
[GRAPHICS NOT AVAILABLE IN TIFF FORMAT]
Note: Material submitted for the record by the Honorable Dana
Rohrabacher, a Representative in Congress from the State of California,
and chairman, Subcommittee on Europe, Eurasia, and Emerging Threats,
entitled ``Islamic State Networks in Turkey,'' by Merve Tahiroglu and
Jonathan Schanzer, Foundation for Defense of Democracies, is not
reprinted here but may be found on the Internet at: http://
docs.house.gov/Committee/Calendar/ByEvent.aspx?EventID=105842
[all]