[Senate Prints 108-37]
[From the U.S. Government Printing Office]

108th Congress                                                  S. Prt.
                            COMMITTEE PRINT                     
 1st Session                                                     108-37


                          COMBATTING TERRORISM

                                 OF THE

                          UNITED STATES SENATE

                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

                               DURING THE

                      ONE HUNDRED EIGHTH CONGRESS



                             JULY 29, 2003


     Printed for the use of the Select Committee on Indian Affairs

                            WASHINGTON : 2003
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                      COMMITTEE ON INDIAN AFFAIRS

              BEN NIGHTHORSE CAMPBELL, Colorado, Chairman

                DANIEL K. INOUYE, Hawaii, Vice Chairman

JOHN McCAIN, Arizona,                KENT CONRAD, North Dakota
PETE V. DOMENICI, New Mexico         HARRY REID, Nevada
CRAIG THOMAS, Wyoming                DANIEL K. AKAKA, Hawaii
ORRIN G. HATCH, Utah                 BYRON L. DORGAN, North Dakota
JAMES M. INHOFE, Oklahoma            TIM JOHNSON, South Dakota
GORDON SMITH, Oregon                 MARIA CANTWELL, Washington

         Paul Moorehead, Majority Staff Director/Chief Counsel

        Patricia M. Zell, Minority Staff Director/Chief Counsel


                            C O N T E N T S

    Allen, Ron, chairman, Jamestown S'Klallam Tribe..............     4
    Bender, Cynthia, president, Alaska Native health Board.......    85
    Bennett, Audrey, president, Prairie Island Indian Community, 
      Minnesota..................................................    62
    Bopp, Michael, director and chief council, Committee on 
      Governmental Affairs.......................................    50
    Coffey, Wallace, chairman, Comanche Nation, Oklahoma.........    80
    Echohawk, John...............................................    56
    Espinoza, Drucilla, council member, Viejas Band of Kumeyaay 
      Indians....................................................    61
    Frazier, Harold, chairman, Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe, South 
      Dakota.....................................................    82
    Gavigan, Frank, police commander, Mohegan Tribe..............    73
    George, Keller, president, USET..............................    30
    Hillaire, Darrell, chairman, Lummi Nation, Washington........    68
    Heffelfinger, Tom, U.S. attorney for the State and district 
      of Minnesota...............................................     7
    Inouye, Hon. Daniel K., U.S. Senator from Hawaii, vice 
      chairman, Committee on Indian Affairs......................     2
    Johnson, Roland, governor, Laguna Pueblo, Laguna, NM.........    65
    Juan-Saunders, Vivian, chairwoman, Tohono O'Odham Nation, 
      Arizona....................................................    12
    Little, George, environmental program coordinator, Inter-
      tribal Council, Arizona....................................    11
    Matheson, Chuck, council member, Coeur d'Alene Reservation, 
      Idaho......................................................    83
    Nez, David, acting homeland security coordinator, Navajo 
      Nation.....................................................    25
    Parkinson, Larry, deputy assistant secretary, Law Enforcement 
      and Security, Department of the Interior...................    19
    Pico, Anthony, chairman, Viejas Band of Kumeyaay Indians.....    58
    Reddig, J.R., Health and Human Sevices.......................    33
    Rivera, James, Pueblo Pojoaque...............................    68
    Roe, Cheri, director for tribal coordination within the 
      Department of Homeland Security............................    27
    Sanders, Tim, Office of Emergency Management, Gila River.....    77
    Saunders, Richard, chief of police, Tohono O'Odham Police 
      Department.................................................    16
    Stafne, A.T., council member, Fort Peck Reservation, Montana.    71
    Swamp, Rita..................................................    75
    Thomas, Andrew, chief of police, St. Regis...................    76
    Trudell, Richard, executive director, AILTP..................     1
    Vanderwagen, Craig, Health and Human, Services...............    31

                          COMBATTING TERRORISM


                         TUESDAY, JULY 29, 2003

                                       U.S. Senate,
                               Committee on Indian Affairs,
                                                    Washington, DC.
    The tribal leaders forum was convened, pursuant to notice, 
at 8:45 a.m. in room DG-50, Senate Dirksen Building, Richard 
Trudell, executive director, AILTP (facilitator) presiding.


    Mr. Trudell. Why don't we all take a seat so we can get 
    Before we get started, I've asked Wallace Coffey, the 
chairman of the Comanche Tribe in Oklahoma, to offer an 
invocation or opening prayer. So at this time, Wallace.
    Mr. Coffey. [Invocation given in native tongue.]
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Wallace.
    My name is Dick Trudell, and along with John Echohawk, 
we've been asked to serve as facilitators for the meeting 
today. So for further identification, I run an organization 
that's based in California called the American Indian Resources 
Institute. I know many of the people in the room, but I'm sure 
there are a few that I don't know and should get to know.
    The schedule is pretty packed with a lot of speakers 
throughout the day and we're making some adjustments in terms 
of, there are some people who are unable to be here and we'll 
have replacements for them. I think the schedule is pretty 
self-explanatory in terms of really hearing from a variety of 
speakers that represent organizations or departments here in 
Washington and appropriate tribal perspectives as well. Then 
obviously this afternoon we'll move into more of a dialogue 
between the tribes and to really hear from different parts of 
Indian Country in terms their perception or perspective on 
homeland security and what the tribes are doing to deal with 
that particular area.
    The Senator is only going to be able to be here until 
roughly 9:25 a.m. or so, so we shouldn't waste any time. So at 
this time it's an honor and a privilege to present the vice 
chairman of the Indian Affairs Committee, the Honorable Senator 
Daniel K. Inouye.


    Senator Inouye. It is a bit early in the morning, so I 
welcome all of you who have traveled long distances to be with 
the Committee on Indian Affairs as we begin our first two 
sessions on the consideration of S. 578, a bill to amend the 
Homeland Security Act of 2002, to address the role of tribal 
governments in homeland security.
    I am certain that since September 11, all Americans have 
been called upon to take part in a nationwide effort to protect 
our homes and our homelands from acts of terrorism. The 
Homeland Security Act provides the authority for the 
establishment of this department, the new Homeland Security 
Department, to serve as the focal point for the Federal 
Government's efforts to prevent terrorist attacks, to reduce 
our Nation's vulnerability to terrorism, to enhance the 
capacities of all governments to respond to a terrorist threat, 
to the coordination of homeland security activities with State, 
local and I underscore tribal governments.
    There are six priorities identified in the act: First, the 
development of a comprehensive intelligence and warning system 
to detect terrorism before it manifests itself in an attack. 
Second, domestic counter-terrorism, including the improvement 
of intergovernmental law enforcement coordination. Third, we 
have border and transportation security. Fourth, a critical 
infrastructure protection. Fifth, catastrophic terrorism 
defense, and finally, emergency preparedness and response.
    As the Federal Government begins to build homeland security 
capacities to meet the threat of terrorism, it should be clear 
that State, local and tribal governments have a critical role 
to play as well in homeland security. At the Federal level, it 
is well known that tribal governments serve as a primary 
instrument of law enforcement and emergency response for more 
than 50 million acres of land that comprise Indian Country. 
What is less obvious to many of those charged with implementing 
the Homeland Security Act is the extensive nature of 
infrastructure located on or near tribal lands that is critical 
to our Nation's security.
    For example, dams, hydroelectric facilities, nuclear power 
generating plants. Many of them are located in or near tribal 
lands. Oil and gas pipelines, energy resources, transportation 
corridors or railroads, and highway systems, communication 
towers, proximity of Indian lands to military reservations, 
installations and population centers. These factors must be 
considered and considered seriously.
    Like other governments, tribal governments need the 
necessary resources to develop tribal government capacities to 
respond to threats of terrorism, including access to 
information, an information warning system, law enforcement 
data bases and health alert systems related to the possible use 
of germ, chemical and biological warfare.
    I find it ironic when I hear someone say, ``I do not think 
that the Indian people can carry the load, I do not think they 
are prepared for this.'' I just want to remind them that in the 
last century and the beginning of this new century, on a per 
capita basis, more Native Americans have put on the uniform of 
this land to stand in harm's way in our behalf than any other 
ethnic group, and no one has ever complained about that. They 
have all done a good job. On a per capita basis they have 
amassed large numbers of medals, demonstrating not only their 
patriotism, but their courage and determination.
    This meeting, which will be followed by a hearing tomorrow 
before the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs, is designed to 
provide a forum for developing a better understanding of the 
homeland security challenges to critical infrastructure that is 
located in Indian country. I think most of you here can stand 
up and say, in my country or right next to ours is a big plant, 
or a dam, or something of that nature, as well as a critical 
role the tribal governments must play in working with Federal, 
State, and local governments to ensure that homeland security 
has a comprehensive network capable of emergency detection and 
response to activities that threaten our Nation's economy and 
    So this morning and today we look forward to hearing from 
those of you who have traveled great distances to be here for 
this important meeting. So on behalf of the members of the 
Committee on Indian Affairs, we thank you for your dedication 
and your perseverance. I hope that we will succeed in 
convincing our brother and sister governments, Federal, State, 
and local, that Indian country has a very important role to 
play in homeland security. Because it is in our mutual 
interests. I hope that we will be able to convince our Federal 
and State governments.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Senator.
    I think it would be helpful if everyone would sit at the 
table. I know some of you are behind the table, but maybe fill 
up the table if at all possible. I should point out that the 
proceedings today are going to be a part of the record, 
combined with the hearing tomorrow. So they do have a court 
reporter here who will be developing a transcript of the 
proceedings. So it would be very helpful to have people be sure 
to identify themselves when they speak to help him develop this 
    Let me just take care of a few logistical things before we 
hear from our next speaker. As you're well aware, I think 
there's coffee in the back of the room and it's my 
understanding there are going to be some box lunched provided 
at the lunch break, thanks to the contributions of a number of 
tribes who stepped up and are helping defray those costs, in 
particular the Mohican Tribe of Vieja Sequon, I think Jamestown 
S'Klallam and I'm sure there are a couple of others, Salt 
River. But anyway, we will certainly thank others once we are 
informed of who they are.
    As I mentioned, John Echohawk will be sharing the duties or 
responsibilities of trying to move the meeting during the 
course of the day. It is kind of ironic that there's any kind 
of resistance or lack of appreciation for Indian country when 
it comes to homeland security, given the fact that tribal 
governments are the primary governments in Indian country. As 
the Senator pointed out, when you're responsible for policing 
over 56 million acres of land in the lower 48 and another 44 
million in Alaska, it's a substantial percentage of the land 
mass in this country, as well as to have better than 550 plus 
communities that have a responsibility to serve their 
communities. But nothing new, I guess.
    I hope that between the forum today and the hearing 
tomorrow that a record is developed that removes any resistance 
to really having tribal governments fulfill their 
responsibilities to their communities. As I said earlier, 
there's a full program today and hopefully we'll have time to 
add some dialogue between the speakers and tribal leaders so 
everyone will get a chance at participating at some time or 
    Our first speaker is ron allen, the chairman of the 
jamestown s'klallam tribe. Ron, it would be helpful if you'd 
come up here. Most people know Ron from his past experiences 
and ongoing experiences with NCAI, and he's just always been 
kind of a workhorse when it comes to attending meetings and 
making sure that Indian country participates the way it should.
    So at this time, it's always a pleasure to present Ron 


    Mr. Allen. Thanks, Dick. It certainly is an honor to be 
here this morning. I was called by Billy Frank, Jr., a well-
known leader from the Northwest who was going to provide these 
opening remarks, and he wasn't going to be able to make this 
meeting so he asked me if I'd pinch-hit for him. I said sure, I 
can do that, Billy, but I can't quite use the same kind of 
language that you use. I don't quite have that talent or that 
distinguishing honor.
    Which reminds me, in terms of who put the agenda together, 
I noticed that my name was The Ron Allen. I hope there was 
supposed to be something in between The and Ron Allen, because 
otherwise, I'm going to have to do some explaining. [Laughter.]
    Well, this is an important topic, combatting terrorism and 
the subtitle, Assessing Challenges, Building Capacity and 
Governmental Partnerships. It's a topic that has been on our 
minds since 9/11 for all of us, and I know that I'm very 
honored to be talking about this topic with my fellow chairs 
and presidents and governors and council members and 
distinguished officials from the Administration and members of 
the Congress. It's a topic we need to attack and address 
together. That last word I think was probably even one of the 
most important, partnerships.
    From my perspective, this topic is one that we've been 
talking about for generation upon generation, between the 
tribes and the Federal Government in all its capacities, with 
regard to what our relationship is with the United States and 
what our role is in terms of dealing with all the many issues 
in the United States. We have to constantly remind that the 
backdrop of the relationship, in the Constitution, recognize 
the tribes as legitimate governments and as a part of the 
political governmental structure in America, recognizing the 
sovereignty of tribes, recognizing the unique relationships of 
Indian country from Alaska to Florida and Maine to California.
    Today there's over 560 tribes across the United States. In 
that, we have over 60 million acres that we have responsibility 
for, for oversight. That is a lot of country to cover. That's a 
lot of issues; 25 or more tribes have land along the borders or 
land along the oceans and the waterways which we have to 
protect the interests of America.
    So when we talk about homeland security, we talk about how 
the tribal governments coordinate and collaborate and join in 
partnerships with the Federal Government, the State 
governments, the local governments and so forth, with regard to 
moving our agenda forward. Our jurisdiction is very clear in 
our minds. Now, we know that some have difference of opinion, 
and we have court opinions that create difference with regard 
to what our jurisdiction is.
    But regardless of that, when it gets right down to the 
bottomline, it is, who is protecting the interests of Indian 
country with regard to activities that take place in Indian 
country? Whether it's on the borders or whether it's within the 
borders of the United States, because terrorism kinds of 
activities can take place all over the United States. It 
doesn't have to be just on the borders. And it is an issue that 
is of great importance to all of us.
    So we have, across the United States, literally hundreds of 
tribal jurisdictions, tribal enforcement teams, who have 
responsibilities within our territories, as Senator Inouye 
referenced. We basically protect the interests of our community 
and provide oversight over the activities in our community, 
coordinating and watching and observing the kinds of activities 
that may be of concern to us that are relative to terrorism or 
any other kinds of mischievous kinds of illegal activities that 
threaten the danger and public safety of American and our 
    That is an important objective that we have, and we need to 
pay attention to that. Many of us will ask that our Federal and 
State and local counterparts, are you really in our back yard, 
working with us and collaborating with us. If anything happens, 
are we prepared to join together and work together, to take 
corrective and constructive and aggressive actions in order to 
protect the safety of our people.
    Senator Inouye referenced the dams, referenced the 
infrastructure, other kinds, hydro activities or power plants 
that are all taking place that all reside near or on our 
reservations. That's an important issue. That's an important 
issue for America, it's an important issue for our communities. 
And we believe that we need to make sure that we work closely 
together in collaborating this effort.
    We know that when the Homeland Security Act was passed, the 
United States was moving quickly to take aggressive and 
constructive and progressive activities to protect America and 
protect the people of America. So in doing so, what happens 
often is that the United States, when it passes legislation, 
forgets about Indian country. We're often afterthought policy, 
an afterthought with regard to policy development in the United 
States. We have regularly told president after president, 
Congress after Congress, that if you're going to pass laws 
which you're going to deal with cross-jurisdictional issues, it 
is always about the Federal Government, the State government 
and the Indian governments.
    So quickly our leadership in the United States just stops 
after State or local government and then just tries to meld 
Indian country into local government. Yes, we are a local 
government, but our status, our legal, political, historical 
status is different. And when you look at what's going on 
within our communities, there is a legal and moral obligation 
for us to work collaboratively together. And we would argue 
that it is important for us, it is absolutely important for us 
to think about how we're going to manage these affairs, so that 
we don't have some sort of unfortunate event or activity taking 
place in our community that would be detrimental, and all of a 
sudden we ask ourselves, did we not think about what could 
happen in these Indian communities.
    John Wooten, the famous basketball coach from UCLA used to 
always tell his players, failing to prepare is preparing to 
fail. Now, that is an underlying theme in homeland security. 
That's a fundamental underlying theme. So it's about preparing 
to deal with terrorism, it's about preparing to protect the 
safety and welfare of our communities, Indian and non-Indian 
alike. And we would argue that as we go through this dialogue 
today and prepare for the hearing tomorrow and in the 
discussions on the Hill and in the Administration in the coming 
weeks that we would remember what our important relationship 
is, that we would rise to a higher level with regard to the 
unique relationship in America for Indian communities, criss-
crossing America, an important component of America, an 
important component of the family of the governmental structure 
in America.
    I remember a phrase that I had used before and I had heard 
from Robert Redford when he was talking about the entertainment 
industry. That phrase was, we're constantly living in a sea of 
change. And we're constantly surviving that change. But we 
cannot just survive the change. We have to lead it. And in 
Indian country, we think we have to lead it too. Within the 
Administration together in terms of how we're going to fight 
terrorism, how we're going to protect the interests and welfare 
of our society, we have to be respectful of who we are in our 
society and what our responsibilities are, so we can grow 
    So I would continue to champion Senator Inouye's comments 
that he has argued to the Administration, to the Congress and 
to the tribes: We must seize the reins of control to advance 
and enhance the unique sovereign relationship of Indian country 
in America, no matter what we're dealing with. Whether we're 
dealing with advancing government to government relationships 
or whether we're going to deal with homeland security measures 
and activities, seize those reins of control. Homeland security 
is a part of that relationship. We must figure out how we're 
going to make that happen.
    We can't fight over the reins of power. The notion that 
somebody has to be in total control, the Federal Government 
knows it can't be everywhere. It is not omniscient. I can 
assure you that there are corners of Indian country you won't 
be, just like you know there are corners of America you won't 
be. You'll be coming in and called in if the event calls for 
it. But it will be because of the local enforcement, that they 
did their job and brought you in in order to play your rightful 
role with regard to protecting the welfare and the safety of 
our society, all our society, Indian country, too.
    Let's work together in true partnership. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Ron.
    Our next speaker is in his second tour of duty as a U.S. 
attorney. He's been in his current position since September 
2001 and had also served as a U.S. attorney during the first 
Bush presidency. So at this time, I'd like to call on Tom 
Heffelfinger. Tom?

                     DISTRICT OF MINNESOTA

    Mr. Heffelfinger. Thank you very much, Ron.
    As Minnesota's lead Federal law enforcement officer, the 
word ``the'' is associated with my name a lot. Usually it has 
``the'' and some other expletive after it. So be thankful that 
all they're calling you is ``The.'' [Laughter.]
    I want to thank Senators Daniel K. Inouye and Ben 
Nighthorse Campbell for inviting me to participate in this 
forum to address the important and crucial topic of the role of 
tribal governments in homeland security. I'm the United States 
Attorney for the State and district of Minnesota.
    I also chair the Attorney General's Advisory Committee's 
Subcommittee on Native American Issues. That's a long title for 
the group of U.S. attorneys responsible for advising the 
Attorney General on issues related to Indian country. We are a 
large group, we represent almost a third of all the U.S. 
attorneys in the Nation. We are the U.S. attorneys who have 
significant Indian country in our districts.
    In regard to today's conference, our committee has 
identified terrorism, border and infrastructure protection as 
our number one priority. The Attorney General has endorsed that 
prioritization. In order to enhance the role of the Department 
of Justice in responding to terrorism and security in Indian 
country, and to learn about the issues related to it, we have 
either attended or conducted numerous conferences, including 
one in February 2003 in Tucson for 2\1/2\ days, devoted 
entirely to border security issues. As part of that, we were 
honored to have the opportunity to meet with a number of 
Arizona tribal leaders and to tour the Tohono O'Odham 
reservation and see first-hand the issues faced by that 
community. I understand that chairperson Vivian Juan-Saunders 
is on the agenda today, and I want to again extend my 
appreciation of the Tohono O'Odham's hospitality to our 
committee last February.
    Although it's been 22 months since the attacks of September 
11, the Government continues to be committed to homeland 
security as our number one priority. As recently as 2 weeks 
ago, the President addressed all of the U.S attorneys and 
reaffirmed that the war on terrorism is our top priority, and 
reaffirmed that this is a long term effort. Such an effort is 
necessary in light of the demonstrated patience of our enemies, 
those terrorists avowed to kill us, to hurt us.
    Perhaps the best proof of the patience that we need and the 
demonstrate commitment of our enemies is in the words of Al 
Qaeda itself. A training manual recovered in England in 
September 2001 contained the following mission statement:

    The confrontation with these godless and apostate regimes 
does not know Socratic debates, Platonic ideas nor Aristotelian 
diplomacy. But it knows the dialogue of bullets, the ideals of 
assassination, bombing and destruction, and the diplomacy of 
the cannon and the machine gun.

    In responding to these threats, it's important for us to 
recognize that our enemy is waging a war against all people in 
this country. No distinctions were made on September 11 between 
civilian or military, between adult or child or between people 
of different races. It's also important to recognize as we 
consider how to wage this war that this is the first battle 
fought by the United States that is being fought as much by law 
enforcement and first responders as it is being fought by our 
    The terrorists have clearly identified United States 
infrastructure and key economic centers as party of their 
targets. The World Trade Center was not chosen because it's a 
series of tall buildings, but rather because of its symbolism 
of America's leadership in a world economy. And according to 
the Al Qaeda training manual, one of the main mission of Al 
Qaeda is ``attacking vital economic centers.''
    Terrorists can only be successful in attacking us 
domestically if they can both enter our country and gather 
information and intelligence while they are here. To do that, 
they must avoid detection. Again, Al Qaeda trains its 
operatives to travel great distances and to be successful in 
gathering information by avoiding being known or being 
conspicuous. In light of these lessons from the enemy, it is 
important for us to recognize that Indian country is both a 
vital economic center of the United States and it has border 
areas and lands that are generally remote and sparsely 
populated areas in which it is easy to avoid detection.
    For example, there are roughly 260 miles of international 
border and international shorelines within the reservations of 
more than 25 Native American communities. The examples are 
known to many, Akwesasne Mohawk, in my own district, the Red 
Lake Band of Ojibwa. Red Lake, for example, the reservation 
includes Northwest Angle, which is the northernmost mass of 
land in the lower 48. And the Tohono O'Odham Nation of Arizona, 
which has the largest expanse of international border, roughly 
75 miles.
    In the area of infrastructure, we've heard about this, the 
Senator mentioned it, but some examples may help bring it home. 
In my own State, the Prairie Island nuclear powerplant is next 
door neighbor to the Prairie Island Band of Mdewakanton Sioux, 
and I note that President Audrey Bennett is on the agenda 
today, and I look forward to hearing from her. If we are going 
to protect the Mississippi River, on whose banks that 
powerplant sits, we must work collaboratively.
    Grand Cooley Dam in Washington State is on the Colville 
Indian Reservation. Grand Cooley Dam was on a list of targets 
recovered from a Taliban cave in Afghanistan.
    In providing effective anti-terrorism response in Indian 
country and integrating that response into the nationwide 
homeland security system, we face certain challenges in 
addressing homeland security concerns for Indian country. And 
we must focus on those challenges over which we have control, 
and we must plan and prepare for those challenges over which we 
do not have control. Among the challenges are distance and 
remoteness, the time necessary to respond to instances in 
Indian country, and the harsh weather we find in many of our 
communities. These are not factors over which we have control; 
however, they are factors for which we can plan and for which 
we must work with our State and Federal partners to plan in 
responding to a terrorist threat.
    Jurisdiction of Federal, State, local and tribal law 
enforcement to act in connection with terroristic attacks or 
homeland security, or even criminal and public safety issues, 
is a confusing, complex and difficult issue. As Tracy Toulou, 
from the Office of Tribal Justice and I advised the Senate on 
July 11, 2002, the Department of Justice urges and continues to 
urge that Congress undertake a comprehensive clarification of 
jurisdiction in Indian country in order to further enhance our 
ability to protect the public, both against criminal acts and 
terrorist acts.
    At last year's National Native American Law Enforcement 
Association tribal homeland security summit, former Assistant 
Secretary for Indian Affairs for the Department of the 
Interior, Neal McCaleb, made the following observation, that 
even with additional funding, there will never be enough law 
enforcement resources to cover all of the vast territory of the 
Nation's Indian country. Recognizing that, we must learn to do 
our best with existing resources. This means we must get 
adequate training, this means we must support independent 
tribal police forces, and most importantly it means that 
Federal tribal and State law enforcement officers must develop 
cooperative arrangements in order that we might leverage 
available resources to maximize the protection in the vast 
areas we're talking about.
    Communication, coordination and information sharing are 
another of the challenges. This is within the control of law 
enforcement. There's only one model which we can follow, and 
that is the model that was used during the Olympics in Salt 
Lake City, and that is to develop a law enforcement turf free 
zone, so that all law enforcement agents work together to 
coordinate, communicate and share information for the maximum 
protection of all.
    Among those things that we should focus on, then, is 
enhancing communication and coordination, and those things that 
are necessary to facilitate coordination and communication. For 
example, one of the things that the Native American Issue 
subcommittee has learned is that most tribal police departments 
are not linked to their Federal and State partners with 
coordinated radio and computer or telecommunications systems. 
Without such systems, a rapid response is very difficult.
    In addition, the tribes must be directly involved in 
homeland security planning and preparation. And I applaud the 
Senate for its identification of this issue and its work on it.
    Although these challenges that I've identified are large 
and they are real, there are certain opportunities available to 
us in addressing them. First of all, every tribal leader, 
national leader and law enforcement officer with whom I have 
dealt, both in this tour and last tour of duty as U.S. attorney 
are committed to waging this war against not only crime but 
also against terrorists in Indian country. That commitment, 
quite frankly, is at the heart of our ability to succeed, and 
we will succeed.
    As evidenced by the efforts of NNALEA at last October's 
meeting, national focus in Indian country on the area of 
homeland security has increasingly been on enhancing 
communications, coordination and information sharing. This is 
absolutely essential. And the evidence that this works was 
published in an article in the Arizona Republic newspaper just 
last week about success that has been achieved at the Tohono 
O'Odham Nation by a collaborative relationship between the 
tribal police, U.S. Customs Service and the U.S. Border Patrol, 
and dramatic reductions in calls for illegal border crossings 
in that community, based upon enhanced resources being applied 
to that border. And I look forward to hearing more about the 
success of that operation when we hear from President Juan-
    Last, homeland security, I'd like to reaffirm Ron's earlier 
statement, homeland security can only be achieved by planning 
and preparation. The tribes must be involved and increasingly 
we are seeing that tribes are being brought into the planning 
process. I believe that conferences such as this will only 
expand on that opportunity.
    The tragedy of September 11 remains engraved on all of our 
memories as a day of suffering and tragedy, so much so that as 
the 2-year anniversary approaches next month, it remains 
difficult to see that such tragedies present opportunities. One 
such opportunity is that afforded to us to have an opportunity 
to work cooperatively with tribal law enforcement, tribal 
leaders and the tribal communities generally, so that all might 
participate equally as partners in defending this country. On 
behalf of the U.S. attorneys and the Department of Justice 
generally, we're excited about the opportunities to advance 
this effort.
    Again, I thank you for the opportunity to attend, and I 
look forward to being here today to listen to the observations 
of others involved. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Tom.
    I think most of you realize that this meeting was developed 
on very short notice and we certainly appreciate the efforts of 
the Committee to decide to have this meeting preceding the 
hearing. I should point out that organizations such as NCAI and 
NARF and a couple of others were very helpful in trying to 
develop this meeting on a very short notice.
    As I mentioned, we are going to have some substitute 
speakers for people that are listed on the program, but we 
certainly hope to include every perspective that we should hear 
from and hopefully have enough time to have some dialog as 
well, because I'm sure that some of you may have questions for 
say, like Tom Heffelfinger. Fortunately, he'll be with us for 
the whole day, so we'll have an opportunity to maybe interact 
during the course of the day as well.
    As the schedule points out, the perspectives from Indian 
country on Federal agency activities is, the agenda is 
structured so that we'll hear from a tribal leader or tribal 
perspective and then hear from someone from one of the 
Departments as well, in as many areas as we can. So the first 
topic, critical infrastructure in Indian country, we were 
hoping to have Ricky Anderson, the president of the Seneca 
Nation, here to address that topic. Unfortunately, he is not 
able to be here today. So in his place, we've asked George 
Little, who is the environmental coordinator for the 
Intertribal Council of Arizona, who will offer a perspective in 
that area.
    So at this time, George, would you like to come up?


    Mr. Little. My name is George Little, and I work with the 
Intertribal Council of Arizona down at Phoenix.
    As I was introduced, I am the environmental program 
coordinator, and like many tribes, that's the title that was 
given to you, but then you wear many hats. That's one of my 
hats, is doing a little bit of this and a little bit of that. 
But my primary duty is working with EPCRA and SARA title III. 
That's how I got started in emergency response. But since you 
deal with emergency responders, you kind of deal with law 
enforcement, fire, everything in the emergency response field.
    The critical infrastructures that are located in Arizona, 
there's quite a bit, since 27 percent of the land is in Indian 
country in Arizona. We have those powerlines, as was mentioned 
earlier, high power transmission lines, major highways, dams, 
the border issues, aquifers, major railroads and communication 
towers. And one thing that was not mentioned, too, is the 
hospitals. We have those hospitals that are in the rural areas 
that are very much needed, if something should happen. So those 
are some of the issues that we're concerned about, and also 
cultural, agricultural and traditional sites. Many of the non-
natives don't see that perspective from the Indian view.
    Again, I'm reiterating what has been said before, but true 
partnerships and communication is needed, cooperation. And 
again, tribes are always considered as an afterthought. In 
working in Arizona for the tribes, the State of Arizona is one 
step ahead. I'm saying that, kind of patting myself on the 
back. We had a meeting on May 22 where the State of Arizona, 
the State government, Federal people came down and the tribes 
of Arizona sat down and had a meeting to discuss exactly this. 
The tribes, 14 tribes were represented, and they were able to 
discuss with the State of Arizona, where do the tribes fit in 
all of this. Again, like I said, it's always an afterthought. 
They've done their plans, they've done their committees. And 
with this meeting, the tribes were able to present their 
concerns and issues.
    I do have a paper that will be submitted tomorrow, and I 
have some copies, if anybody is interested I'll make that 
available. But another thing that's also again that was 
reiterated is the funding, training and exercise that is 
needed. Arizona has put together a committee called the Arizona 
Homeland Security Coordinating Council, of which Richard 
Saunders, who I believe will be presenting also later on and 
myself have been appointed to this council. We will be there 
discussing the issues in Indian country for the State of 
    But any questions, I will be happy, I'll be around for the 
day. But other than that, that's all I have. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. The next two speakers I don't see in the room 
yet. So we may skip over the law enforcement perspectives, or 
the first responders for law enforcement and accommodate them 
when they get here, or if we can find--if there are others in 
the room that have the law enforcement experience, then 
obviously you want to offer or share a perspective on what's 
happening on their reservation, it would certainly be 
    Our next speaker is going to be back shortly here, so I'll 
kind of wait until she gets here. We thought we'd even call on 
Randy Noka, since he's got some on the ground experience now in 
terms of law enforcement, from Narragansett. That's just a 
joke. [Laughter.]
    For those of you who saw the information on the internet, 
it wasn't a pleasant situation there in Narragansett, and it 
certainly had national coverage. Randy was one of the people on 
the ground.
    Our next speaker is rapidly approaching her seat. As I 
mentioned, we'll leapfrog over the law enforcement area for the 
time being, and move to the border security in Indian country. 
And her name has been kind of bandied about here quite a bit, 
and obviously if you've ever been to Tohono O'Odham, you can 
realize that they have a very long border, given the size of 
the reservation, which I guess exceeds 3 million acres. They've 
had border issues for quite some time. So it's certainly a 
pleasure to have our next speaker here, who is the chairwoman 
of the Tohono O'Odham Nation in Arizona and has been very 
involved on the national scene prior to being elected to her 
current position. So at this time, it's a privilege to present 
Vivian Juan-Saunders.

                        NATION, ARIZONA

    Ms. Juan-Saunders. Good morning. It's an honor to be here 
on behalf of the Tohono O'Odham Nation. I'd like to introduce 
Richard Saunders, who is the chief of police for Tohono O'Odham 
Nation, has served in his capacity for over 18 years as police 
officer and over the last 5 years in administration. Happens to 
be my husband, so it's been very interesting over the last 20 
years as we've made attempts to draw attention to these issues.
    Today I want to speak in honor of all the elders who are 
still living, all the elders who have passed on, who have 
carried the flame in terms of advocating these issues and 
drawing attention to the tremendous need and focus on the 
international boundary. I just want to first begin by sharing 
that, in terms of the national homeland security strategy, our 
understanding is the overall strategy after 9/11 is: First, to 
prevent terrorist attacks; second, reduce our homeland 
vulnerability to terrorism; and third; minimize the damage and 
recover from attacks that do occur.
    After 9/11, I read in the paper, and I watched on the news 
on TV how the United States was moving to secure the borders, 
north, east, west and south. As a citizen of the Tohono O'Odham 
Nation at that time, my immediate concern was the 75 miles of 
international boundary that is adjacent to the Tohono O'Odham 
Nation. My father lives one-quarter mile from the international 
boundary in the United States, so obviously I was very much 
concerned about my father and my relatives.
    So I called and just informed them, they're securing the 
borders, there may be an increase in military, increase in 
activity. And they waited and waited and waited, and there was 
none. That's an example of how the isolation of not only the 
Tohono O'Odham Nation but other tribes is currently, in our 
view, the need to influence others to provide more resources in 
terms of border security. Our understanding is that terrorism 
is any premeditated, unlawful act dangerous to human life or 
public welfare that is intended to intimidate or coerce 
civilian populations or governments. We also know that 
terrorism includes hijackings, kidnapings, shootings, bombings, 
attacks involving chemical, biological, radiological or nuclear 
weapons, cyber attacks, et cetera.
    Terrorists can be U.S. citizens or foreigners acting alone, 
in collaboration with others or on behalf of a hostile nation 
or group. And this leads us to the vulnerability of border 
tribes. It's important to recognize that there are 25 tribal 
governments that have land located on or near Canada or Mexico. 
A total of 260 miles of the U.S. border is near or adjacent to 
tribal governments. A 171 tribal law enforcement agencies 
across the United States protect dams, water impoundments, 
electrical generating systems, power plants, sanitation 
systems, gas fields and pipelines, railroads, interstate 
highways, State and Federal routes.
    Indian lands comprise 5 percent of the total land area of 
the United States. But they contain an estimated 10 percent of 
all energy reserves in the United States. Whole natural gas and 
other energy minerals produced on tribal land represent more 
than 10 percent of total nationwide onshore production of 
energy minerals. The 20 largest tribally operated law 
enforcement agencies are responsible for 50,000 square miles of 
U.S. territory.
    This also includes communication towers and water resources 
and casinos. We know that terrorists will identify 
entertainment centers, and as you know, with the advent of 
Indian gaming, we've seen an increase and expansion in Indian 
casino entertainment. So this is an important note. Coal mines, 
power transmission lines, tourist attractions on or near tribal 
lands, and obviously that does include Indian casinos.
    I don't want to purport to speak on behalf of the 25 border 
tribes, I feel that each has its own unique story. I'd just 
like to in general summarize the experience that all of us 
experience everyday. For the Tohono O'Odham Nation in 1848, the 
United States and Mexico entered into a treaty known as the 
Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. In that treaty, it placed a 
southern boundary at the Gila River. If the treaty was placed 
and the line was placed at that location, all of the Tohono 
O'Odham Nation would have remained in Mexico.
    In 1854, through the Gaston Purchase, the United States and 
Mexico further defined the southern boundary and brought the 
southern boundary to its present location. In doing so, it cut 
into the heart of the Tohono O'Odham Nation. The aboriginal 
land base of the O'Odham extended south to the Gulf of 
California, east to the San Pedro River, north to the Gila 
River, and west to the Colorado River. That was the aboriginal 
land base of our nation.
    The 75 miles of international boundary that we have today 
is very isolated, very vast. Some of the issues that we deal 
with today include on an average day every officer within the 
Tohono O'Odham police department spending 60 percent of his or 
her time working on border related issues. In 1999, our 
officers assisted the Border Patrol with 100 undocumented 
immigrant apprehensions per month. In 2002, our tribal officers 
recorded 6,000 undocumented immigrants detained, pending U.S. 
Border Patrol pickup.
    Obviously that's a Federal responsibility, but due to the 
land base, the isolation and the hours it takes to travel from 
the Tucson-Casa Grande-Ajo sectors, to the Tohono O'Odham 
Nation, it's a waiting game at that point. In 2002 and 2003, 
1,500 undocumented immigrants crossed our tribal lands each 
day. Illegal narcotics seizures have more than doubled in the 
last 3 years to over 65,000 pounds in 2002. It's no longer just 
Mexican nationals that are crossing our lands. We have 
undocumented immigrants from Guatemala, Honduras and all of 
Central America who are apprehended on our nation. The 
apprehensions that are made is a combination of the Tohono 
O'Odham police department, Border Patrol and the U.S. Customs.
    In 2002, 4,300 vehicles were used for illegal drug and 
immigrant smuggling. A total of 517 stolen vehicles were 
recovered on tribal land. And these stolen vehicles are from 
Tucson, Phoenix, Chandler, Mesa, that are stolen for illegal 
activities that occur on the Tohono O'Odham Nation.
    Since January of this year, 49 undocumented immigrants have 
died on our reservation lands due to heat and exposure. When 
the deaths occur on the reservation, the tribal police, through 
the seven staff members in criminal investigations, they 
conduct the investigation at our expense. If there's an 
autopsy, it's $1,400 per body that comes out of the tribal 
police funds. Last year alone, the Tohono O'Odham police 
department spent one-half of its budget, $3 million, dealing 
with issues related to the international boundary. Last year, 
the Indian Health Service spent one-half a million dollars on 
health care for undocumented immigrants. This is a drain on our 
resources and health care that does not come to our people as a 
result of expenditures on undocumented immigrants.
    In summary, I wanted to share these statistics with you to 
give you an idea of how important it is for tribal governments 
to receive homeland security resources. Currently, if we were 
to request for homeland security funds in Arizona, we'd have to 
lobby the local counties. The Tohono O'Odham Nation is located 
in three counties, Pima, Maricopa, and Pinell. We don't have 
the staff to participate in emergency preparedness planning 
sessions with the three counties. It's important for us to 
receive the funds directly.
    We currently are involved in coordination and collaboration 
with entities in Mexico that are near or close to the 
reservation or O'Odham in Mexico. We're working with their 
hospital personnel, their Red Cross in terms of developing a 
bioterrorism plan. And so the planning efforts extend south 
into Mexico. Because of the international boundary we have 
approximately 1,000 O'Odham who are still in what we know now 
today as Mexico. It's important for the resources to come 
directly to the Tohono O'Odham Nation for the following 
    When the Department of Homeland Security was established 
after 9/11, there were a series of policy decisions that were 
made here in Washington, DC here last year. Over the last month 
or so, we have started to feel the impact of those policy 
decisions at the local level. Consequently, the Tohono O'Odham 
Nation had no other choice but to develop its own position 
paper on how we want Federal entities to conduct activities on 
the Tohono O'Odham Nation.
    For the last 20 years, the U.S. Border Patrol has conducted 
its activities on our nation. The U.S. Customs has a long 
history as well, since 1985 they entered into an 
intergovernmental agreement with the Tohono O'Odham Nation to 
establish a base there on reservation lands. Currently, the 
Border Patrol does not have the same agreement. It would take 
an act of Congress for them to set up a substation on our 
lands. In place of that, one of the local communities and 
districts provided a land base for the local Tohono O'Odham 
police department to establish a substation that will be shared 
by the Bureau of Customs and Border Protection.
    On the Tohono O'Odham Nation, we have a total of 21 
American Indian customs agents who are part of an elite unit 
known as the Shadow Wolves. Their primary mission is in drug 
interdiction. They've been very successful, they've been called 
at the international level to provide their expertise and 
skills. In the reorganization of Customs and Border Patrol, the 
Shadow Wolves were transferred to the Customs and Border 
Protection. Our concern was that we were not consulted as a 
tribal government in any reorganization within homeland 
security. Consequently, our position paper, Strengthening 
Relations Between Federal Agencies, first and foremost, we 
request government to government consultation regarding any 
reorganization and regarding any plans for activities on the 
Tohono O'Odham Nation.
    In 1848 and 1854, our people were not consulted, even back 
then, when the international boundary and the provisions of the 
treaties and agreements were established. And today we felt, 
well, 2 months ago, the feeling back then was, we weren't being 
consulted, even in the 21st century. As you continue your 
discussions on resources and additional manpower on tribal 
lands, it's important to recognize that tribal governments must 
establish the provisions and organization and position on 
conduct and activities of additional deployment of agents.
    We're concerned that we have an increase, as you see an 
increase of additional Federal agents on the reservation lands, 
we see and we hear increase of concerns about harassment of our 
people, reservation lands being viewed as militarization zone 
with towers going up, with Border Patrol helicopters flying 
above every day. Someone referred to the environment as a 
concentration camp. And we have concerns by people that it's 
impacted the everyday lives of our people. Speeding through 
O'Odham villages, placement of agents within the nation, 
reporting methods, currently the Border Patrol has three 
separate reporting, Tucson, Ajo and Casa Grande.
    If a member of our tribe reports illegal activities, we're 
given a 1-800 number to call, but it's a voice messaging 
service. And when there's an illegal activity occurring in 
front of you, you don't know if anyone on the other end will 
respond to your call. So we requested that we initiate a one 
person, one center reporting for our tribal members.
    All of these concerns that we have, the lack of government 
to government consultation is important as we move forward in 
addressing S. 578, but especially section 13, with regards to 
tribal authorization for criminal and civil jurisdiction. Our 
tribal police officers today, they detain and they apprehend 
undocumented immigrants today, as we wait for the Federal 
agents to arrive. The isolation of our nation is so vast that 
we have to make decisions on the spot to ensure the safety of 
our people. But overall, we join with everyone in stating that 
our first and primary concern is national security for the 
entire United States.
    However, we are on the front lines. And as we continue to 
work with the State of Arizona, we continue to work with the 
national Homeland Security office and its staff as important to 
understand that the resources for emergency preparedness, 
bioterrorism and for equipment and training of our local law 
enforcement and the emergency response team is so critical, 
because we know our people, we know our lands. Another concern 
that our people have expressed is, if Federal agents are not 
familiar with our reservation lands and you have sacred sites 
and people who are responding to calls don't realize that 
they're on or near a sacred site, they're very concerned. So 
we're grappling with an increase in manpower, which is so 
necessary. But respect for people and land also must play hand 
in hand.
    At this time I'd like to turn some time over to our chief 
of police to share with you the specifics of our communications 
and collaboration that we have with some of the agencies on the 

                       POLICE DEPARTMENT

    Mr. Saunders. Good morning. My name is Richard Saunders, 
I'm chief of police with the Tohono O'Odham police department.
    Just to reiterate what Vivian said and bring you up to 
speed, this year's, some of our statistical numbers, and I'll 
get into some more detail, some of the drugs that were 
apprehended by the Tohono O'Odham police department, and we 
don't have a large department, probably very much like many of 
the Indian tribal jurisdictions represented here, we've got, 
including myself, 69 officers attempting to patrol and provide 
law enforcement service to the entire Tohono O'Odham Nation, 
2.8 million acres in southern Arizona.
    We've got a two-man drug team, including a four-man canine 
unit, and then the rest of our patrol division, obviously. To 
date, just this year alone, we've seized in excess of 58,000 
pounds of narcotics attempting to gain entry into the United 
States and then into very much of your communities, the rest of 
Arizona and the rest of the United States. If you add those 
numbers, along with the border protection, Customs and Border 
Patrol, we're exceeding 160,000 pounds just since January 
    In addition to that, when migrants die in our desert lands, 
as represented, last year we investigated 85 migrant deaths on 
our reservation. The Border Patrol does not do death 
investigation. That falls upon local law enforcement. In that 
case, last year we investigated that many deaths. Up to date 
this year alone, just since January, we've already investigated 
49 deaths of migrants dying on our reservation, including 
crashes, vehicle crashes and at least 1 dozen migrants killed 
also tragically on our roadways.
    That provides for a direct impact on our local law 
enforcement. In terms of the investigations, we sent out a full 
criminal investigative team. It's treated as a homicide until 
proven otherwise, and that further demonstrates the 
professionalism of the tribal police department. In addition to 
that, we pay for the autopsy cost, again as required by law, as 
an attempt to identify the persons and identify and determine 
the cause of deaths in those cases.
    In addition, up to date, since January, 2,600 plus vehicles 
that were attempting to come into the nation's lands were 
apprehended, were seized that were directly to be used for 
illegal alien smuggling. We've recovered in excess of 300 
stolen vehicles and again, these vehicles weren't stolen from 
tribal members on nation's lands, they were stolen from points 
throughout Arizona. So that's a good thing for the rest of the 
State of Arizona, as well. There's been in excess of 260 
individual search and rescue efforts on migrants who are lost 
or in distress in our desert lands, creating additional work 
and manpower problems for us.
    As mentioned, in excess of 60 percent of our time, effort 
and energy and resources were used at what we consider border 
related issues. This really, we had to create a partnership, if 
you will, with Border Patrol and customs there. Some of the 
initiative and some of the partnerships, I'd like to elaborate 
on briefly. They were killing us in terms of the Federal 
mandated strategy. The local Border Patrol, they were operating 
on a Federal mandated strategy of full deployment, if you will, 
trying to hold the line. They were being defeated. How could a 
75-member Border Patrol unit attempt to stop the flow of 
migrants crossing our nation's lands and the 75 miles that 
exist on our nation? It was impossible.
    So just working with them and getting them to be sensitive 
to the nation's lands and perhaps rethinking their deployment 
strategy, they finally were given some flexibility to do so. 
With that, they created some redeployment strategies further 
north from the border, still with an emphasis along the border. 
Now we've got additional manpower, resources and technology 
further north there. They got helicopter support to us, lookout 
stations if you will. However, there's an opposite to that in 
terms of militarization along the Tohono O'Odham Nation is 
identified by tribal members.
    Some other things that are working is some emphasis on 
cultural sensitivity. We try and offer these new agents coming 
into the nation's lands who are not understanding or not 
informed or educated about Indian country, trying to provide 
them some cultural sensitivity training, so that they become 
familiar with the Tohono O'Odham Nation, its people, the 
culture and traditions. We continue to work on that.
    Additionally, this year I had a wonderful opportunity to 
travel to Mexico City with United States Attorney Paul 
Charlton, from the district of Arizona. He was going to Mexico 
to talk with his counterparts in terms of what's occurring 
within Arizona and how better, I asked if I could go, simply, 
can I go. How better than the Tohono O'Odham Nation to describe 
our impacts and effects of border related activities. So truly, 
exercising the sovereignty of the Tohono O'Odham Nation with 
the international Mexican Government, they're our counterparts 
in Mexico. Clearly, the border situation doesn't stop or start 
at the border. Obviously, it starts into Mexico with situations 
as they are there.
    So on this visit, we had an opportunity to travel as a 
sovereign independent nation, not representing the State of 
Arizona or the United States, if you will, but the Tohono 
O'Odham Nation, in informing and educating my counterparts in 
Mexico of the impacts, the law enforcement impacts that we are 
up against. As a result, I believe there were some initiatives 
with the Mexican law enforcement. Within a few weeks, within 
the last several weeks, they are doing raids down south there 
and really going after their smugglers and trying to put a stop 
to some of the migrant flows directly through the Tohono 
O'Odham Nation, the avenue of choice, if you will. So that was 
successful in that, and we continue to try and pursue that 
opportunity to revisit that continuously.
    Some other initiatives that are working for us, we had a, 
trying to address the Federal Government in some of our issues. 
One of them was the telecommunications that probably exist in 
many of the rural Indian communities that are represented here. 
Through a project, a pilot project, if you will, through the 
national homeland security senior executive director of the 
telecommunications and wireless system, Charlie Cape, came to 
the Tohono O'Odham Nation to see first-hand our communications 
    As a result, we were provided some equipment, some 
resources with what's known as an AC1000. Basically what it is 
is a computerized system. You insert your handheld radios, and 
it allows now local law enforcement to have operability, 
communications operability with other law enforcement entities 
that are working within our jurisdiction area. So now we have 
an opportunity to communicate with Border Patrol, border 
protection at Customs and other local law enforcement 
responders. That was a success.
    In addition, we've been asked to provide, we've been 
concerned about no involvement at the State level and certainly 
at the Federal level with our involvement in homeland security. 
I'm pleased to announce that finally there is some tribal 
representation at the Arizona homeland security level. There's 
a newly appointed member by the Governor of Arizona, Janet 
Napolitano, to the Advisory Committee to the homeland security 
director, Frank Navarett.
    With that, I've been asked to wrap up, and clearly I'll be 
available the rest of the day to answer any questions. Thank 
you for the opportunity, as we address our issues and concerns 
impacting the Tohono O'Odham Nation, and certainly in 
protecting the rest of Arizona and the United States. Thank 
    Ms. Juan-Saunders. Just in conclusion, I just wanted to 
stress the vulnerability of the 25 tribes that are along or 
near the international boundary and how it's important, as we 
discuss terrorism, the vulnerability that exists within the 
nation's lands, the tribal lands. And due to the lack of border 
security on tribal lands, it frightens me to think that anyone 
who wanted to scope the United States and look at the 
vulnerable spots would target tribal lands in terms of access 
to the United States.
    So I would very much stress that we continue to move 
forward to ensure that the adequate resources are provided to 
tribal governments. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Vivian and Richard.
    In my rush to hear their remarks, I inadvertently 
leapfrogged over a speaker who was listed in the program. He is 
here. We also have somebody from the Department of Homeland 
Security that will share with us her remarks as well.
    But at this time, I'd like to call on Larry Parkinson, who 
is the Deputy Assistant Secretary for Law Enforcement within 
the Department of the Interior. Larry?


    Mr. Parkinson. Thank you. It's an honor to be here.
    I'm Larry Parkinson, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Law 
Enforcement and Security at the Department of the Interior. 
I've been on this job 1 year, 1 year this week. I come to it 
with some background in homeland security. I was the general 
counsel and assistant director at the FBI until 1 year ago. And 
I remember 9/11 quite well. Director Mueller was on the job 6 
days when the planes hit. We spent a wild day and a lot of days 
after that facing up to these new challenges that we've got.
    I came over to the Department 1 year ago because Secretary 
Norton has restructured law enforcement and security programs 
within the Department of the Interior. I was a little surprised 
to see how much of my time and the time of my staff would be 
spent on homeland security issues at the Department. Certainly 
more than one-half my time in the last year has been spent 
focused on homeland security challenges.
    I'd like to give you just a quick overview of the 
Department's homeland security issues and lead into Indian 
country issues. They obviously, everything that we're 
challenged with the tribes and others in Indian country are 
faced with the same challenges. Generally, we have four broad 
issues that fall within the homeland security umbrella at the 
Department. The first category is protection of monuments and 
icons, things like the Mall, Statue of Liberty, St. Louis Arch, 
things like that. We've talked about oil and gas pipelines and 
facilities, that's a huge responsibility for the Department, as 
it is for the tribes. We have things like shared responsibility 
for securing the Trans-Alaska Pipeline, because one-half of 
that is on BLM land, and a number of other things. We have 
things like over 4,000 offshore oil platforms that Minerals 
Management Service has to address security for.
    The third category is dams, and we heard about that. I'm 
going to touch on that briefly. Almost all of the big dams out 
west are part of the Department of the Interior's 
responsibility, through the Bureau of Reclamation. And fourth 
and the most significant and the one that I'm going to spend 
the most time on, I'm not going to spend a lot of time, but try 
to keep my remarks reasonably short, is borders, because those 
are where our most significant challenges are, and it's where I 
think the Government's most significant challenges are, and 
certainly the most significant challenges for Indian country.
    I have to say, and emphasize again, not that others haven't 
emphasized that, that these dangers are extraordinarily real. 
They are as real today as they were 2 years ago. And if anybody 
has any doubts, all you have to do is open the Washington Post 
today and you will see the story, which is again quite real, a 
warning from the Department of Homeland Security, Department of 
Justice, FBI and CIA, about the fact that Al Qaeda wants to hit 
the United States again. And it wants to hit the United States 
    The story relates to a warning that was put out yesterday, 
talking about a potential Al Qaeda threat as early as the end 
of this summer. They are remarkably resilient, and as somebody, 
I think Tom noted this morning, they are extraordinarily 
patient. I learned in the years that I was in the FBI that they 
will spend years and years planning attacks. And while we've 
made significant strides in taking them down, there are a lot 
of folks out there still.
    Let me touch briefly on dams. I don't want to reiterate 
things that have been said already. Several of the speakers 
have made mention of the fact that dams and other 
infrastructure affects Indian country just like it affects us 
in other areas. Some of those dams are exclusively within 
Indian country, like Yellowtail. My deputy just came back from 
Montana, Yellowtail Dam is exclusively within Indian country. 
It is run by the Bureau of Reclamation, and one of our 
challenges is to make sure these Interior bureaus work 
together, let alone working together with all the other 
partners in Federal, State and tribal issues.
    Some are very near or adjacent to Indian lands. Grand 
Cooley was mentioned earlier. That's one of the better examples 
out in Washington State. Cooley's the largest dam that we've 
got in the United States, in lots of different categories it's 
the largest. And Indian country is affected every single day in 
lots of ways. If there is ever an attack on Cooley, they would 
feel the pain more than anybody else. And they would suffer the 
consequences more than anybody else. Not only that, they would 
be the first responders if there was something to respond to, 
along with a small number of law enforcement and Bureau of 
Reclamation security folks. So that is a significant issue 
throughout the country.
    I want to spend most of my remarks on borders. I was on the 
job 3 weeks, and I got a phone call that said we had had a park 
ranger killed on the southwest border. So my first trip on this 
job, 1 month after I arrived, after attending the funeral, was 
to the southwest border. And I've been down there three times 
since then, three times directly on the border, including a 
trip to Tohono O'Odham in March that was sponsored by Senators 
McCain and Kyl, where they brought Asa Hutchinson, the under 
secretary for Homeland Security, down for a first-hand look at 
the problems on the borders. I'll talk in 1 minute about the 
murder next door to Tohono O'Odham on park land.
    Interior has, when Indian country is included, Interior has 
40 percent of the southwest border, 40 percent of those lands 
are Interior lands, about 15 percent of the Canadian border and 
over 30 percent of the southeast border, which tends to get 
neglected, and we've focused some significant attention 
recently on that border as well.
    We've heard the numbers about Indian country, 56 million 
acres in the lower 48, 25 tribes directly on the border. When 
we look at the borders, we don't look just at land on the 
border. We look at land, we had to pick some arbitrary number, 
we usually pick 100 miles when we usually talk about it, lands 
within 100 miles of the border. There are 37 tribes that have 
land on or near the Mexican and Canadian borders. And the 
impact is significant, whether you're directly on the border or 
not. And Tohono O'Odham is a good example. You go 50 miles off 
the border and it looks pretty much the same as it does 
directly on the border. The impacts are the same.
    BLM has some land, Ironwood National Monument outside 
Tucson, which has to be, I haven't measured it lately, but it's 
probably 70 miles off the border. And it has the same abandoned 
vehicles, a trail ever 14 feet, almost literally, and garbage 
and the same kinds of devastation and problems that are faced 
by us and by the tribes directly on the border. So we try to 
send a message that this is just not the lands directly on the 
border, it's a lot of other lands.
    I was going to use two examples, Tohono O'Odham was one, 
and I was delighted to see that Vivian and Richard were here, 
so I can shorten my remarks on Tohono O'Odham. It's the one I'm 
most familiar with, because I've been down there several times 
on the job. But they gave you the numbers, and I don't need to 
repeat them, other than to emphasize how devastating the 
impacts of the traffic down there have been. Even things that 
most people wouldn't think about, $266,000 a year for autopsies 
alone has a devastating impact. Whether it's $3 million or $7 
million, it's in that range of border related expenses for 
Tohono O'Odham. They are obviously being hurt very badly and 
they need assistance.
    One of the reasons that the impact has been so significant, 
not just at Tohono O'Odham but to other lands on the border, 
other Interior lands as well, is that the Border Patrol has 
been very effective in the last several years at tightening up 
the ports of entry, the official ports of entry at Lukeville 
and Nogales and the other locations, Naco, down on the 
southwest border. And this is not a criticism of Border Patrol, 
this is a compliment to Border Patrol, they put their resources 
and have put their resources lately at the places where they 
get the most bang for the buck, which is at the ports of entry, 
which are obviously the jumping off points for those who are 
going to enter the country.
    Well, the consequence of that is that as their numbers have 
gone down at the ports of entry, the bad guys and illegals are 
going around. And when they go around, they are in Indian 
country land or they are on other lands that we have 
responsibility for. And that is a, I think Homeland Security 
recognizes that. And we have the challenges to expand the 
success that Border Patrol and Homeland Security have had at 
the ports of entry, expand those out to places like the west 
desert of Arizona.
    We have, as Richard said, there are 69 officers total at 
Tohono O'Odham, tribal officers. Next door to that, we've got a 
30-mile border, several hundred thousand acres at Organ Pipe 
Cactus National Monument. One year ago we had three, count 
them, three park rangers. That was our law enforcement force at 
that 30 mile stretch of border next door to Tohono O'Odham to 
the west. And this leads me to the significant issue which 
faces all of us, particularly in law enforcement, and that is 
protecting the safety of our officers and our citizens and our 
visitors to those lands.
    The phone call I got last August 9 was that Chris Egley, 
who was a superstar ranger, he was class valedictorian, all 
star cross country runner at the University of Michigan, Eagle 
Scout, you name it, he was the all American boy. What happened 
in August was that the Mexican police were chasing these two 
bad guys in a car. The radioed ahead, told the Border Patrol 
that they were in pursuit and that this truck had crossed the 
border. Chris Egley and the Border Patrol partner of his 
responded to the scene. What they were not told is that these 
guys had been involved in a quadruple execution killing the day 
before and that they were being pursued for that. So obviously 
they were armed and dangerous. Our guys responded without 
really knowing that.
    They abandoned the vehicle in Organ Pipe Cactus. This is 
just a few miles from Tohono O'Odham. Our guy, Chris Egley, was 
ambushed. The bad guy had an AK-47, shot him. He had a vest on, 
it went under his vest, through his radio, severed his femoral 
artery and he bled out pretty quickly and died on the desert 
there. It is unfortunate that we had to have something like 
that to get attention to some of the issues down there. I raise 
it simply to make the point that that could just as easily have 
been a Tohono O'Odham tribal officer, it could have been one of 
our refuge officers at Cabasa Prieta to the west of Organ Pipe 
Cactus. It could have been any of our folks who are out there 
every given day on the borders. And as I said, we had three 
people at the time, where Park Service is bumping that up and 
we've now got 11 folks at Organ Pipe. We should have 16 there 
by the beginning of October.
    But you compare that, Border Patrol last count had 1,800 
Border Patrol officers in the western sector of Arizona alone, 
in the Tucson sector. So we are coordinating well on the 
ground, but we need to have a comprehensive governmental 
solution to those problems. The solution is not, as Organ Pipe 
is an example, the solution is not to pump 1,000 or even 100 
Park Service rangers down there, or 1,000 tribal officers. But 
something's got to be done.
    Our responsibility has not traditionally been border 
protection, obviously, but our folks and our resources are at 
risk down there. One of the issues about coordination as a 
concrete example is, this was in the works before Ranger Egley 
was killed, but it obviously took on a greater urgency after 
that, is the Park Service decided that we should have a vehicle 
barrier across the 30-mile border at Organ Pipe Cactus National 
Monument. So they are investing, ground is about to break and 
over the next 3 years they're going to spend $17 million to put 
up a vehicle barrier. It's not going to stop human traffic on 
foot, but it would stop vehicles from crossing the border. 
Because obviously anybody who's been down there knows that the 
existing fence is a joke. If anybody thinks that provides any 
security to the border, it does not.
    So anyway, they're investing a significant amount of money 
in building this vehicle barrier. Well, the issue obviously is 
going to be, what happens if somebody is on the Mexican side 
and wants to get into our land, all they've got to do is go 
around the 30-mile stretch at Organ Pipe. And if they go to the 
east, they'll be on Tohono O'Odham. If they go to the west, 
they'll be on Fish and Wildlife Service national wildlife 
refuge at Cabasa Prieta. So we have to have a comprehensive 
solution. We've been talking to the tribe and the Department of 
Homeland Security about how we can assist in extending a 
vehicle barrier to those other lands, including our own lands 
on the national wildlife refuge, and who's going to do it. Is 
it going to be the Department of Interior, is it going to be 
the Department of Homeland Security, who's going to pay for 
    Let me move just briefly to the Canadian border, as an 
example. And again, these are just examples, as we mentioned. 
There are at least 37 tribes who have significant border 
related challenges. The northern border example that I like to 
use is Akwesasne at St. Regis Mohawk Reserve on the border of 
Ontario and upstate New York. It is similar to Tohono O'Odham 
in the sense that the reservation itself is both on the 
Canadian side and the United States side, similar to Tohono 
O'Odham, where the nation is on both sides of the border. And 
there's traditionally been free movement across the border.
    Akwesasne is really a 12-mile border, it's a fairly short 
border, but particularly in winter what it really is is a 12-
mile ice bridge. The seaway freezes, and if you want to get 
into the United States, all you have to do is drive across the 
ice. There's no fence, there's nothing. All you have to do is 
drive across. Some of you may recall on Christmas Eve, last 
Christmas Eve, December 24, there was a nationwide manhunt by 
the FBI and others. It was alleged that five Middle Eastern 
terrorists had come across from Canada. The number ranged from 
5 to 19, there were some news reports that it could be as many 
as 19. And it kind of put a little bit of a scare on the 
holiday season, that these Middle Easterners had come across 
the border.
    What had been alleged, and actually had been told to the 
FBI through a source, turned out fortunately that he was making 
it up, was that they had come across through Akwesasne and St. 
Regis Mohawk. That was the way they had gotten in. It had been 
known as a smuggling route from Canada for some time. Even 
though it washed out about 1 week later, law enforcement 
officials throughout the country were on alert for a long time 
trying to find these guys. Turned out the guy had lied about 
    But the reality is that it could very well have been 
reality, because it's easy to get across. And traditionally, 
particularly when you focus on Al Qaeda, they have crossed into 
the United States through Canada, not necessarily from Mexico. 
Although one of our biggest concerns, and several folks have 
made reference to this, Vivian in particular, that as we make 
it harder to fly into this country, for the bad guys to fly in, 
whether it's Al Qaeda or somebody else, they're going to walk. 
And it's not that hard to walk. As we all know, the borders, 
particularly in Indian country that are on the borders, as well 
as Interior's lands, anybody can come across. It's not 
necessarily easy, that's why we had 89 people die on Tohono 
O'Odham last year. But our borders are completely porous.
    So let me close, what do we need to do? First, with respect 
to Indian country, we obviously need to educate folks and 
recognize the role of our tribal governments. They really are, 
as Vivian said, on the front lines. We've had our own 
challenges at a broader level at Interior, explaining what we 
do and why we have a significant role in homeland security. 
When the Homeland Security Department was stood up, nobody was 
really thinking too much about the Department of the Interior, 
no fault of theirs. But it's become quite apparent what our 
role has been, and that we need to do the same kind of 
education with respect to Indian country in particular.
    When we've asked for assistance and added resources for 
things, what we've been told by those who control the purse 
strings, some in Congress, some in the Executive Branch, is, 
what are you doing that for? That's Homeland Security's 
responsibility, things like, yes, look, we need a vehicle 
barrier down at Organ Pipe Cactus, we need a vehicle barrier on 
the southwest border. Well, you guys shouldn't have to pay for 
that, that ought to be Homeland Security.
    Our response is, that would be great, but they don't have 
any money. When we have problems, we have to rectify. We have 
people that are at risk, visitors, employees, officers, every 
single day. We need some resources, if nothing else just for 
pure protection of those folks, as well as protecting the 
resources. Because the resources down there are being 
completely trashed.
    We obviously need to work together. We're not going to 
succeed without coordination. And as Tom said, we need to 
leverage whatever resources we have, because that's the only 
way that we're going to succeed. And folks are spending some, 
putting some serious attention to these issues. That March trip 
to Sells was a good example, when Senators McCain and Kyl 
brought Asa Hutchison down there to see it first-hand. So we 
are talking and working well, I think. But we still lack a 
coordinated Government-wide approach to these issues. Obviously 
the new Department of Homeland Security, that you'll hear from 
very soon, is a recent creation and as they get things sorted 
out, we're going to see some significant changes, I'm confident 
of that.
    Finally, we need some direct assistance to the tribes. 
There's legislation that is going to be considered in some 
specificity tomorrow, S. 578. That needs to be passed. The 
director of the Bureau of Indian Affairs will be here tomorrow 
afternoon to express the Bureau's and the Department's strong 
support for that legislation. Assistance for first responder 
training and you name it has got to come directly to the tribes 
and not be filtered through the States.
    I'll just close by commending Senators Ben Nighthorse 
Campbell and Daniel K. Inouye and the Committee on Indian 
Affairs for sponsoring this and for bringing national attention 
to these issues. I'll be here throughout the morning and be 
delighted to participate in whatever discussion there is. 
Thanks very much.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Larry.
    We have about five more speakers this morning, and it would 
be nice to take a break, but I think this information is 
extremely helpful and obviously educates all of us. I have a 
schedule that's a little different than what you have in your 
booklets. It's more updated. So what I'd suggest we do is keep 
moving forward, and hopefully there will be some time before 
the morning part is over so there can be some discussion or 
    I think Larry's remarks were a good segue into homeland 
security. What I'd like to do first is call on Dave Nez, who's 
the Acting Homeland Security Coordinator for the Navajo Nation, 
just to kind of share with us what is happening at Navajo. So 
at this time, Dave.

                         NAVAJO NATION

    Mr. Nez. Good morning, everyone. My name is Dave Nez, from 
Navajo Nation. Like our facilitator said, it was a very short 
notice, it was Thursday afternoon that I got this message to be 
here today, along with my presentation here a few minutes ago.
    I'd like to refer to the law enforcement, our first 
responders. In that I also would like to include all our health 
care workers, our community emergency response teams. With 
Navajo Nation, we're now getting to planning and implementation 
and recognizing the people and training them down at the local 
    Our first line defense, referring to our public safety 
personnel, this is where I'm going to speak on how critical and 
how important this is to our community. I've seen reports, I've 
seen counties that report on how they're going to plan and how 
they're going to structure and work with tribal entities. It's 
offensive to hear that in these reports, counties are debating 
whether tribes have the capacity or the capabilities against 
acts of terrorism. But still, we still have to protect our 
people, that's our main mission statement.
    So in that respect, within the last three allocations, I 
believe it started about 2001, 2002, 2003 now, and I'm speaking 
for Navajo Nation, we haven't really been involved in the 
planning, the organization, the allocation or distribution of 
funds and so on, and to training, equipment, exercise. But 
that's where we need to really get involved in the training 
aspect of it as well. I talk to the chief of police, people in 
chief status under criminal about what kind of preparation or 
what kind of training they have taken so far, and there's none.
    I know that in Indian country, jurisdiction plays a major 
role. Down to the simplest report of terrorism, it seems to be 
FBI is our first resource for these kinds of activities. 
Because we haven't really considered offenses for these types 
of activities, we haven't really talked about protocols or new 
policies and procedures for these types of activities. I think 
we need to really get involved in those areas and just basic 
training of detection, prevention and also investigation.
    But we also need to be covered with intelligence. These are 
data collection on terrorism, some places they have already 
established centers for analysis for this information, 
particularly dissemination of this information. It seems like 
we get the facts or we don't get the first alert on a lot of 
this information.
    Then comes the equipment. We need to work on the list. I 
know that with the State of New Mexico, which also is part of 
Navajo Nation, they have outlined three separate lists of 
equipment, one calling it phase 1, phase 2, phase 3. We haven't 
really begun to start with phase one yet. And according to 
their outline, you can't get phase three equipment until you 
get phase 1 equipment, which is the basic necessity of a lot of 
the protection equipment. These are anywhere from protective 
gear, different ratings, or different protection against 
different bioterrorism.
    Challenges, again, some of the things mentioned are 
remoteness and time. Speaking for Navajo Nation, we're looking 
at 27,000 square miles, somewhere close to 300 plus population 
including all our visitors and vacationers out in our areas. 
Another challenge that we need to consider right from the 
beginning is the three State mutual agreement that we're going 
to be working on, the 10 and 12 counties that we have to deal 
    And then we look at our infrastructure, some of the ones 
that were mentioned. This is going to be part of my 
presentation this afternoon or tomorrow. Navajo Nation has five 
coal-burning generator stations located on or near Navajo 
Nation. They generate approximately 9,380 megawatts of 
electricity to major cities, any major cities west of Navajo 
Nation, which is Nevada, California and down in southern 
Arizona. Page Dam provides hydroelectricity, where we get most 
of our electricity for Navajo Nation.
    Navajo Nation is also working on a major Navajo 
transmission project, which consists of 470 miles of 500 kV 
high powered transmission line from the Four Corners all the 
way down to Las Vegas, NV, with interconnection points north of 
Flagstaff, which will provide access to metro Phoenix area. El 
Paso Gas provides 286 land miles of four 34 diameter pipelines 
that transport approximately 2.2 billion cubic feet of methyl 
gas daily. TransWestern Gas Company also has a similar 
transport system.
    The old Route 66 which is now Interstate 40 borders the 
full length of the southern edge of Navajo Nation. That's about 
300-miles of superhighway, including two railroads that run 
parallel along I-40. Navajo Nation also has five major aquifer 
systems that supplies groundwater to wells and streams to the 
Navajo Nation.
    So these are just, I mentioned a few, and it's been 
reiterated over and over about cooperation and coordination 
with resources. Again, because of jurisdiction, because of 
responsibilities, because of limited resources, because of the 
remote areas, we do have to share responsibilities. When it 
comes to a vast crime scene investigation, I know that Navajo 
Nation doesn't have that capability. And in some respects, we 
don't have that jurisdiction. So we have to strongly rely on 
other agencies.
    When we present our position papers, I believe we're going 
to strongly talk about tribal participation. As we speak, 
States, counties, committees, they're talking about how 
policies are being structured, what are going to be the 
procedures, what are going to be the protocols, how are the 
coordinations going to be put in place together. And as I said, 
Indian tribes have not fully been at the table at a lot of 
these meetings and a lot of these plannings at the moment. I 
think that's where we need to really encourage, bring 
encouragement to all Indian country, that we need to be 
involved at that level and participate in our responsibility, 
our mission statement that we also have to protect our people 
in Indian land.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Dave.
    A person who is not on your program is Cheri Roe, who is 
the director for tribal coordination within the Department of 
Homeland Security. She is here and will introduce herself a 
little further than what I've said, as well as to explain her 
duties and to talk about ongoing DHS tribal outreach efforts. 
So at this time, Cheri.


    Ms. Roe. Hi, thank you for the opportunity to be here. I 
used to be a school teacher, so this is about as big as some of 
my classes were, so this isn't too bad.
    I'd like to introduce myself. My name is Cheri Roe, I'm 
with the Office of State and Local Coordination, the Office of 
the Secretary, Department of Homeland Security. Right now, I 
would like to thank you, thank Senator Daniel K. Inouye and 
Senator Ben Nighthorse Campbell for the opportunity to be 
speaking here.
    We've heard a lot about homeland security. One of the 
things that my background, I come with a background in 
emergency management. I worked as the tribal coordinator at 
FEMA before they joined the Department of Homeland Security.
    So my background, I've worked with lots of people in the 
room about emergency planning and preparedness and response to 
disasters. One of the things, the key notes that you should 
take home from here is to be prepared and to plan. Those are 
two of the most important things. I know that there's a notion 
out there that planning is something that everybody should do 
in a mutual, together way. A lot of the tribes out in, I know 
I've worked with Gila River before and I've worked with NCAI in 
basic awareness, the plans and the preparedness in Indian 
country are very well done and are very extensive. And I know 
that they've done a lot of work in supporting them.
    So I would like to say, with the development of the 
Homeland Security Office of State and Local Coordination, one 
of the first things that was developed was to have a tribal 
coordinator. So in that job, it's my responsibility to 
coordinate with the other directorates within the Homeland 
Security Department, and to ensure that there is a coordinated 
method to inform and again, coordinate with tribal governments.
    Right now, we have several different directorates. We have 
the IIAP, FEMA, which is the emergency preparedness and 
response, BTS, and all of the different departments, we work 
together to include tribes in our outreach. In the current 
distribution of our grants, it is true that we do provide 
grants to the States. My encouragement is to work with the 
Homeland Security advisor to go out and put together the plans, 
and a lot of the tribes have plans, take those plans to the 
Homeland Security advisor and participate in the planning for 
the grants for the ODP money and the other monies that are 
available out there.
    We are also working with different tribes in training. 
There was a mention here about training. There are several 
different opportunities for the tribes to provide themselves 
training on planning through FEMA. If you go to the emergency 
preparedness response, the fire and EMI, Emergency Management 
Institute, and the U.S. Fire Academy, they do have classes that 
tribal members can participate in. The Office of Domestic 
Preparedness has training. That was brought up just recently 
about some of the tribal people and the first responders 
actually not having the training, but the training is 
    I would encourage again the first responders, the fire, the 
EMS, the emergency manager. I know that you probably wear all 
those hats at once. One of the things that happens is that 
somebody will come to the forefront and will be the emergency 
manager because they are the police chief or because they've 
done something else, and they know about incident command. And 
sometimes it doesn't occur until a disaster occurs or some kind 
of event occurs that we see that need. But there are classes 
and there is training available. So I again would encourage 
    I just would like to talk about some of the things that 
we've done at the Department of Homeland Security. We're new. 
We're 6 months old. And I must admit, it's been a wonderful 6 
months. I've been there since day one. We've done a lot of 
work, a lot of outreach. I've had the opportunity to 
participate in the National Congress of American Indians forum 
just recently with some of the other departments and agencies 
in the Federal Government and tribes. I've also had the 
opportunity to meet with several of the different leaders and 
first responders. That's been great.
    I must say that I really enjoy what I do. I think that our 
mission and our statement of working to have the country 
respond to any kind of terrorism event, have the country 
prepared for the terrorist events is very important.
    I was also going to talk about critical infrastructure. We 
have met, and I've met with the Navajo Nation and talked about 
the critical infrastructure that is in the Navajo Nation. I 
have passed that on to our IIAP directorate. I think that the 
notion of critical infrastructure, again, I would encourage you 
to work with the States and to make sure that the States and 
the Homeland Security advisors know what critical 
infrastructure is on the tribal lands, and to work out some 
kind of method of planning for the protection and the 
information sharing of what is out there.
    At the Department, again, I would like to reiterate that 
when the Secretary developed the Department of Homeland 
Security, there was a tribal representative from day one from 
the Office of State and Local Coordination. We are currently 
working and have worked with the National Congress of American 
Indians on tribal issues and we presented at the recent 
conference. We are participating with the National Native 
American Law Enforcement Association, working closely with them 
and we're providing partnership and working on the Homeland 
Security forum that is coming up in the near future.
    We also have coordinated with the different agencies. I 
look around the room and I see some of my other partners in 
homeland security. We have sat down and dialogued and have 
meetings regularly on what is available out in Indian country. 
One of the real benefits of this is that in the different 
agencies, we all have different missions and we all have 
different ways and means of getting to different things. One 
agency may be able to provide some property, and somebody else 
may have a building that they can move to that property. By us 
sitting around and talking informally with each other, we are 
able to find out what is available and how we can encourage and 
work with each other to provide our assets and our help to 
Indian country.
    We have included in the upcoming national response plan and 
national incident management, we have included tribes in the 
coordination process. We participate in the DOD/Indian country 
working group, and we provide outreach and coordination with 
our partner bureaus and other directorates within the 
Department of Homeland Security to encourage and to provide a 
forum for coordination for Indian country.
    And I'd like to again reiterate the planning and the 
preparedness. We need to be prepared, we need to plan. In 
planning for the minimum, in planning for an event that would 
occur in your home, and then you prepare for the event that 
would occur in your community and then in the larger community 
of the reservations and then the larger community of the State 
and then the Nation. It all comes down to planning 
preparedness. And it's not a far step from planning for your 
family, the Secretary talks about the Ready campaign. If you 
prepare for your family and you prepare for your security, it's 
not that much different preparing for our national security. 
You become more aware, you become more prepared. You know where 
your assets are.
    One of the key concepts out there is talking about mutual 
aid, working with your partners, making sure that you know what 
everybody else has around you. You may have, I've been down to 
Gila River several times, and they have a fire department 
there. By being able to have that fire department, and I was 
out in Yakima not too long ago for a big exercise that occurred 
out there, if the fire department there has a hazmat team and 
the fire department next door doesn't, then they need to work 
with each other on mutual aid, or work with each other on how 
they can share those assets and how they can educate each other 
on how they're going to respond to disasters or as first 
responders to any kind of disaster or preparedness event.
    So that's one thing, again, that we need to work on mutual 
aid and work with each other. I'd like to again thank you for 
the opportunity to be here and we strive in the Department of 
Homeland Security to coordinate with tribes and within 
ourselves to coordinate with each other. It's a great 
opportunity. We're new, we've brought a lot of different people 
together, and we're starting our own community and culture. 
It's a real exciting work, and I'd like to thank you.
    Ms. Roe. I always give out my own phone number. My direct 
line, it goes directly to my desk and I return calls within 1 
day, is 202-282-8214. And if you have any questions, give me a 
call directly. I have e-mail, it's [email protected] So give 
me a call and I'll answer your questions. Thanks.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Cheri. You're going to be here for 
the morning only?
    Ms. Roe. Yes.
    Mr. Trudell. Okay. So we'll try to make sure we have some 
time for any questions that we may want to direct at Cheri 
before the morning is over.
    We have three more speakers. The next individual, Keller 
George, many of you know him. He's the special assistant to the 
tribal representative for the Oneida Nation of New York, as 
well as the president of USET. We've asked Keller to share some 
thoughts on tribal emergency and medical response capabilities. 
As you well know, the number of people on reservations any more 
is significant, primarily because of the tourism and resorts 
and what have you. There are significant kinds of mini-cities, 
so to speak, on many reservations now. So I think it's 
worthwhile to hear from a tribal leader before we hear from 
representatives from HHS. So at this time, Keller.


    Mr. George. Thank you, Dick. I appreciate having this 
opportunity. However, I'll remind you I'm a pinch hitter this 
time. Chief Philip Martin was invited, unfortunately was unable 
to be here. But I'm better looking than him anyway. [Laughter.]
    Some people say I'm a legend in my own mind. So I'll just 
get on.
    What I want to talk about briefly is tribal emergency and 
medical response capabilities of the tribes. I come from the 
State of New York, and it's been mentioned that the St. Regis 
Mohawk Tribe at Akwesasne has the border between Ontario and 
Quebec. But a lot of us in New York, particularly the Seneca 
Nation, the Onondaga Nation and the Oneida Nation have nuclear 
plants in our area, Nine Mile One, Nine Mile Two nuclear plants 
are within 60 miles of our reservation lands for the Oneida 
Nation in New York.
    We also have a large number of high electrical transmission 
lines that run through our reservation. We also have pipelines 
for natural gas, and other pipelines of that sort. So if a 
disaster was to happen, we need to be prepared with medical 
people because on our reservation lands we're going to be first 
    One thing that hasn't been mentioned. On our nation, we 
contract with local municipalities for fire protection, because 
we have not as yet been able to establish our own fire 
department. We have medical technicians that work for us in the 
police department and in the IHS facility at our clinic. But we 
are not up to the way we should be to be prepared for a major 
attack on any of the nuclear plants. We don't have the proper 
training, we don't have the proper equipment in terms of masks 
and suits and all this to protect against radiation if 
something ever happened to one of those nuclear plants.
    So that's what we're trying to do. One thing that has been 
mentioned so many times is that as the grants go to States, as 
they filter down, by the time they get to Indian tribes, most 
of those resources are exhausted before it gets to us. So this 
is one of the reasons why I think my nation in particular and 
all of the nations within USET, I think, could support the 
amendment to the Homeland Security Act. That's part of the 
purpose for the hearing tomorrow. But I wanted to get it on 
record to say that the USET tribe does support this amendment 
that will allow more coordination and training and in terms of 
dollars, because that's what runs the show in my mind as we get 
to try to be prepared for any of this.
    We have a number of tribes within the USET area that are on 
the borders, particularly the Micmac up in northern Maine, 
Pasamaquoddy, Penobscot, are close to the Canadian border. So 
we do have a lot of concerns. Also the Seneca Nation is very 
close to the Ontario border, which there are dams and waterways 
there that are very significant to producing power and things 
like that along the Seneca Nation's territory.
    Also within the USET tribes down south in Florida, we have 
the Seminole and the Miccosukee Tribes that are close to the 
Gulf of Mexico and those areas, I don't believe, although the 
Park Service has some capability in that area, and particularly 
down in the far southern part of the Florida borders, with Cuba 
and other areas, where we're vulnerable. So we need to get the 
training, particularly the training, the equipment and all 
these things that we need to be able to respond as first 
responders from our tribes.
    One other thing that we need to do is be able to have 
collaboration with local and State law enforcement agencies. I 
think currently these relations are strained and not where they 
should be in order to provide service during a national 
emergency, mostly due to lack of funds and competing for those 
funds. I think that's one of the main things that we have to 
have, is more coordination, particularly in the intelligence, 
if something's known to be happening our law enforcement people 
and our first responders in the EMS and the ambulance services 
and all these things need to have some type of sharing of 
information of something that's coming down. If they say 
there's going to be an alert, we find we go from a yellow alert 
to an orange alert, we really don't know what's been happening, 
because there is not that much collaboration and passing of 
information between the State law enforcement and the local law 
enforcement agencies with tribal law enforcement agencies and 
medical services.
    So these are some of the things that we are hopeful will 
come out of this hearing, this roundtable today and this 
hearing that will be coming tomorrow. So I appreciate this 
opportunity to make a few comments on behalf of the Oneida 
Nation and USET. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Keller.
    The final two speakers before we open it up for some 
discussion are two representatives from Health and Human 
Services, Dr. Craig Vanderwagen and J.R. Reddig.


    Mr. Vanderwagen. J.R. will be right back, so I'll take 
first opportunity to speak. It's really a pleasure to be here 
with a group that really forms the corporate board of directors 
for our organization. Ultimately, Indian Health Service exists 
because there are Indian people who the Federal Government has 
an obligation to. I recognize you as our corporate board of 
directors, and I'm glad to be here to speak for just a few 
    Keller, thank you so much for sort of setting the stage a 
little bit around health. We've heard a lot of discussion about 
law and order, and that's very appropriate and very necessary. 
Law and order really is a continuum, I think, at least the way 
I look at it as a public health person, where on one end of the 
spectrum you have crime and punishment, and on the other end of 
the spectrum you really have public health. Because law and 
order is really about the security of the people, and 
ultimately that's what public health is, is the security of the 
    And as we heard from our esteemed friend from Jamestown 
this morning, preparation, anticipation and thought really fits 
with Indian culture in large measure, because ultimately 
traditional Indian values of wellness and preservation of 
health really are at the core of what concerns you as tribal 
    Indian Health Service provides health services, both 
directly where tribes elect to have us do that, manage the 
program, or through funding that we provide to the tribes to 
exercise their governmental function on behalf of the health of 
their people. And as Keller stated, one aspect of that health 
program and activity is really about emergency response 
capacity, first responders, your EMS people.
    Two or three years ago, along with the National Highway 
Transportation Safety Administration, we reviewed the status of 
EMS programs in Indian country. Recognizing that there are 
about 80 Indian Health Service funded programs, 78 of those are 
tribally operated. Tribal governments are exercising their 
governance capacity through their EMS programs.
    But much like the rest of rural America, those EMS programs 
are not as complete as we might expect them to be. The good 
news is that your EMS people are better trained at base than 
the average rural EMS program, and even some urban EMS 
programs. Because the percentage of staff in the tribally 
controlled EMS programs that have EMTP and the LDMTC training 
is higher than it is in other segments of the EMS delivery 
system. It's true, we don't have the paramedic, the EMTPs, but 
at base you have well trained people.
    But as was noted by the U.S. Attorney from Minnesota, the 
communication capacity of those programs lags. We are dealing 
with communication equipment that's 30 years old. It is not the 
digital, up to date communications that both the law and order 
and EMS people need to be in communication with their State and 
Federal counterparts. So we have areas, as Keller highlighted, 
where we need training, where we need equipment. And those are 
areas that we've worked closely with the Department to try and 
develop, working through the States, given the Stafford Act 
    There are some good things that have happened, and we need 
to build on those. The State of New Mexico, for instance, has 
hired a full time tribal EMS coordinator. The Governor has 
committed in New Mexico to consult with the tribes, and those 
are positive steps. I will note for you, however, that our 
Deputy Secretary, as recently as two weeks ago in meeting with 
the State health people pointed out where there are more steps 
that could be taken for the State to work with and honor the 
tribal government in its sovereign responsibilities.
    Maine has taken some positive steps. There are other States 
that have taken positive steps. But it continues to be 
difficult, as Keller pointed out, to work through the county 
then to the State in order to access the resources. Our 
Secretary has tried to fulfill his sense of obligation by 
communicating directly with the governors his commitment and 
concern that tribes be included. As you'll hear from J.R., 
we've gone so far as to withhold funds from States where there 
is not good evidence that they are trying to participate in a 
meaningful way with tribal governments.
    J.R. will give you the bigger picture. I think there are 
organizations that you as tribal leaders can utilize to support 
your policy position. NNALEA was mentioned. Last year I 
attended that meeting in Reno. Your EMS and public safety 
people were well represented there. There were significant 
leaders from the Department of Homeland Security, from the FBI, 
from the other relevant Federal entities. This next year, 
hopefully you can take advantage of the opportunity to bring 
your message to them in policy as well as through your law and 
order and first responder staff.
    The Native American EMS Association has grown in strength 
in the last 10 years. It's another organization of technical 
and professional people that you as tribal leaders can use to 
advance your policy position. I would advocate that you do 
that. They work very closely with us, they work with NHSTA, the 
National Highway Safety and Transportation Agency. Take 
advantage of those technical and professional people. They can 
be advocates for the policies that you stand for.
    We're prepared to continue to work with you. We believe in 
your programs. We believe in the sovereignty of your 
governments. J.R. I think will pick up and speak a little bit 
about the position of the Department on a broader basis as they 
interact with the States. Thank you very much.


    Mr. Reddig. I'm J.R. Reddig, and I've been set up. I'm 
supposed to give the big picture? Ha. There is such a big 
picture out there that it is almost inconceivable.
    I want to start out my remarks, I find it curious that I am 
in the bioterrorism business. And the bioterrorism business has 
a unique relationship with Indian country. It was the British 
General Geoffrey Amherst who first devised a bioterrorism 
campaign against the indigenous peoples of this continent, by 
which he thought he could bring smallpox to the villages by 
providing blankets to them. That is bioterrorism. And it 
started here. Indian people were the victims of that. This is 
something that is deeply personal, and this is something that 
we've got to be aware of.
    I am an intelligence officer. I did not say an intelligent 
officer. [Laughter.]
    For the first 26 years of my career, we looked outward, and 
I traveled the world, looking at the threat, at the bad guys. 
Always in the background for us was the Soviet Union, the evil 
empire that President Reagan used to talk about. And they were, 
they were bad guys.
    But the fall of the wall brought us face to face with some 
other bad guys, some other bad guys who felt that they had been 
wronged by the west, that their lands had been occupied by the 
colonial powers, by France, by Britain. And after the end of 
World War II, after the fall of the Berlin Wall, the end of the 
Cold War, the last one standing, the last superpower was the 
United States of America, the flower, the shining symbol of the 
    And it occurred to them that if they were to restore the 
glory that had been the culture of Islam that they had to 
destroy us. When I say us, I have to be as inclusive as I 
possibly can, because it means everyone in this room. It means 
the sovereign tribes and it means the people of the United 
States at large. They want to kill as many of us as they 
possibly can. And you are seated in one of the targets that is 
most significant to them, the target that they wanted to take 
with United Airlines Flight 93, which was inbound toward the 
U.S. Capitol over Pennsylvania, not far from Indian country. 
That flight was to destroy the most powerful symbol of our 
democracy. Instead, simple Americans, civilians, rose up and 
said no, we're not going there. Wherever we go, we are not 
going there.
    Having spent most of my career looking out at the bad guys, 
I want to tell you a little bit about them before we move to 
some direct public health emergency preparedness issues, which 
is what I do for a living now. We like to think of them as 
angry young men in caves with Kalishnikovs. Some of them are. 
But that's not what all of them are. In fact, it's not even the 
really scary part of them. Some of them are graduates of the 
Lajore Institute of Microbiology. Some of them are 
veterinarians. Some of the most dangerous are physicians who 
have turned their back on their oath to heal and turned their 
attention to killing large numbers of people. And they are 
    Osama bin Laden first began to establish his cells in the 
United States in 1983. Many of them are law-abiding citizens. 
Some of them work for the Government of the United States. The 
vast majority of them have never done a wrong thing in their 
lives. But they are prepared to do something to us which will 
be in their minds as spectacular as bringing down the World 
Trade Center.
    I'm not a Pentagon survivor, I did work there for 8\1/2\ 
years, and I had just relocated a budget staff that I was 
privileged to have to that part of the Pentagon. I was there 
that morning and then drove up to CIA for some meetings. We 
heard the first airplane go in, you know, well, stuff happens. 
We heard the second one go in, and we went, okay, we're under 
attack. By the time we got to the hall, the Pentagon was 
burning, and from the only available camera angle, I could see 
that the people I had led for 3\1/2\ years were probably among 
the dead. Thankfully, they were not, because we practiced.
    As a sailor in the early part of my life, I always believed 
you had to find two ways to the fresh air. Because on a ship, 
nothing more than a series of steel boxes, you had to find your 
way in the darkness, often times in toxic, cloudy, smoky 
passageways, sometimes crawling on your hands and knees. But I 
believed that if you could do it with your eyes closed then you 
were going to have a fighting chance at living. I practiced 
that with my staff, and they all cheerfully considered me to be 
the crazy one. But I said, you live in a highly significant 
target, a symbol of America. And those are the kinds of targets 
that the bad guys want to come and take.
    What's our immediate threat? Our immediate threat is going 
to be, we here, toward the end of the summer, the beginning of 
the fall. Osama bin Laden asked his people to lay low, not 
raise a high profile, allow us with our national attention 
deficit disorder to pretend that the war on terrorism was 
somehow some other war in Iraq, and for us to grow tired and to 
turn our attention to something else. We are in the process of 
doing exactly that. But I tell you that our enemies are here 
and our enemies are prepared to act.
    What will that agent be? I don't know. We have had a 
national initiative sponsored by the President to try to 
prepare ourselves against smallpox, something that has been 
used on the North American continent, as I mentioned. It could 
be anthrax. And we are not very far from Senator Daschle's 
office, where that scourge emerged, powder-like, from an 
envelope. It is entirely possible that some of the 
microbiologists trained in Pakistan who are living here may 
choose that as their means of attack, something spectacular, to 
bring home to us that our enemies wish nothing less than the 
complete destruction of our way of life.
    That said, had I been talking to you before March 1 of this 
year, I would have talked about the Office of Emergency 
Response. I would have talked to you about how our office 
marshaled medical resources to respond to catastrophe and 
tragedy. I would have told you how we became apprised of the 
critical deficiencies in our for-profit health care system in 
dealing with the specter of mass casualties, the idea that 
thousands of tens of thousands of American citizens, Indian or 
other, may appear at a hospital demanding treatment against an 
instrument of mass casualty.
    Those functions transferred to the Department of Homeland 
Security, but we did not lose interest in them. We now are 
confronted by the idea that we must somehow adequately posture 
ourselves to deal with the prospect of mass casualty.
    I talked to some representatives from the Central 
Intelligence Agency this morning, and they said, well, if they 
were able to deliver, say, 50 gallons of anthrax in a slurry 
mixture driven in a vehicle across the Beltway, we could 
possibly deal with 100,000 people who might have been exposed 
to anthrax. I said, is it possible to do that? Sure, they've 
got commercial stuff out there all over. It's easy, you buy it. 
    Well, have we exercised our ability to respond? Not yet. 
We're working toward it. The key to all of this is beds, 
training and equipment. And we are moving to have those things 
in the stockpile. We believe that the tribes, that Indian 
country should have the same opportunity to gain those 
resources to be prepared.
    What are the targets? One of my favorite ones, you may 
remember Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, he was a somewhat disheveled 
looking individual that they rounded up in Pakistan a few 
months ago. He's talked, he's dissembled. But one of the 
targets they considered was a major dam near the Hanford 
Nuclear Reservation. And in their minds, in their engineering 
minds, they thought perhaps if they could bring that dam down 
the resulting spill of water would overflow the original course 
of the river, would roll across the Hanford Nuclear 
Reservation, across those places where there are residual 
traces of dumped plutonium from the Manhattan Project, that it 
would spread this material across the lands and it would dry 
when the water levels went down, and then it would blow with 
the wind, both across Indian country and towards the grain belt 
of the United States of America, polluting our food chain.
    These people had a lot of time to think, and we've helped 
them. We all read the Post. And most of these things have 
appeared in the Post as good ideas. And Khalid Sheikh Mohammed 
said, you know, it's really cool, we used to read the Post, 
we'd read it online, too, you guys gave us some great ideas. 
The horror of what they could do, the horror of what they want 
to do, the horror of what they have the resources, the agents 
and the technology to be able to do, are things for which we 
must be prepared.
    Now, in the Bioterrorism Act of 2002, the one which 
established our office and which went a long way toward 
beginning to posture America to protect itself and all of its 
peoples, we had some fits and starts. That's fair to say. The 
original grants for bioterror went to the States, to the 
territories and to the three target cities, New York, 
Washington, and Chicago. That's the way the funding went, with 
the assumption that things would, in the due course, penetrate 
to all those with equities in bioterror defense.
    It didn't quite work out that way, for a variety of 
perfectly good reasons. But we are committed to working the 
grants process, to help fund good grants, to help the tribes 
and the sovereign people of America prepare themselves to deal 
with the specter of bioterror, to help to prepare us to take 
mass casualty, if necessary. If we are not alert to that, if we 
do not recognize what has already happened on this continent 
hundreds of years ago as a template for what could happen, then 
we would be very shortsighted indeed.
    It is a great honor to be here as it was to appear up with 
the Region V consultations a couple of weeks ago. I'm from a 
little town in northern Michigan that is Indian country. And I 
have a prospective daughter who is Cherokee. This means a lot 
to me. The defense of America means an enormous amount to me. 
And the key role of the tribes and the sovereign peoples of 
America is something that we must absolutely be committed to.
    I'd like to thank you for your time and hopefully will be 
around for a few minutes before we get to the luncheon period. 
Thank you so much for your attention.
    Mr. Trudell. J.R. was our last scheduled speaker this 
morning, so we have some time to have you direct questions at 
any of the speakers that you heard, but in particular the 
agency representatives from the Department of Homeland 
Security, Cheri Roe, Department of the Interior, Larry 
Parkinson, Department of Justice, U.S. Attorney Tom 
Heffelfinger, and the two gentlemen you just heard from 
Department of HHS, Craig Vanderwagen and J.R. Reddig.
    So at this time, if any of you have questions you want to 
direct at any one of them, take your shot right now before 
lunch. They may not be with us after lunch. It would be 
helpful, if you do have a question, if you could come to a 
microphone. There are some microphones up here at the front, or 
this one, if you want to use this one. But you can just 
identify yourself and direct your question at whoever you want 
to direct it at. Questions?
    Mr. George. My name is Keller George, and I'd like to 
address this question to Dr. Vanderwagen.
    My understanding is that there's been some memorandum of 
understanding with the Canadian Government. So if you could, 
could you expand on that, and maybe it's something that we 
could be interested in, and something that will help us.
    Mr. Vanderwagen. Thank you, Keller. You know, Indian Health 
Service really doesn't have an international portfolio, that's 
not our business necessarily. Our business is to work for 
Indian people here in the United States.
    But we believe that work with Canada and Mexico both may 
have benefits for Indian people here in the United States. Yes, 
1 year ago Secretary Thompson, at the World Health Assembly, 
did sign an agreement with Ann McClelland, who is the Minister 
of Health with Canada, and the language was very broad. We left 
it intentionally broad because it was done in a hurry and we 
hadn't had an opportunity to fully consult with tribes about 
what they might expect from such a document.
    And over the last year, we've worked some with the Canadian 
Government officials and now we've begun to work with the 
tribes to articulate what the elements of that MOU should be 
over the next 5 years, that tribal leadership thinks are 
important things that the two governments can do to support the 
health needs of the indigenous people of both Canada and the 
United States. In brief, we're working with NCAI, NIHB, self-
governance tribes and in fact, the Inuit people specifically 
asked for the Alaska Native Health Board to participate, 
because of the connection between the Inuit peoples of Canada 
and the United States. And on the Canadian side, the Assembly 
of First Nations and ITK, the Inuit organization are 
participating as representatives of the Canadian tribal 
    We hope to have a presentation prepared for folks who are 
able to attend the NIHB meeting in Minneapolis in September or 
early October to talk about some of the ideas that have come 
forward. We would like input, we'd like thoughts about how we 
can use that document to prepare for such things as drills. 
Keller, you mentioned preparedness drills. Where we have cross 
border opportunities for preparedness drills we'd like to make 
sure that the tribes are active participants in that. There are 
other aspects to Indian health, obviously, that can be a 
    In Mexico, the Federal Government has not really stepped 
forward to sign such an agreement, but over the last 3 or 4 
years we've had in fact a tri-national health fair in Sonora, 
with the minister of health for the State of Sonora, the tribe, 
Tohono O'Odham, and the United States Government. We hope to 
use that kind of interaction with the Mexican Government to 
build stronger relationships with them and their recognition of 
the needs of their Indian people in the border environment.
    One other thing I want to mention is there is a 
Congressionally directed border commission that really focuses 
on the Mexican border in California, Arizona, Texas, and New 
Mexico. I've been involved. It's another opportunity for tribal 
leadership to engage with the Mexican Government, the United 
States Government. There will be a meeting here in fact, in 
Washington August 18 and 19, where the Denali Commission, which 
the Alaska Native people are quite active with, the border 
commission, which I think the Tohono O'Odham may have interests 
with, and some other tribes in the southwest. It might be an 
opportunity to raise what about the Canadian border as an 
    There are two other commissions that really Indian country 
hasn't been too active with. There is a Mississippi Delta 
Commission, and Tim may be, NBCI might be interested in what 
that commission might do, both in economic and preparedness 
terms. Then there's an Appalachian Commission, and again, the 
Catawbas, the Eastern Band of Cherokees, may have an interest 
in that as well.
    So there are opportunities in this wider level for tribes 
to have influence. We work with them on a staff basis for some 
of these issues, but we need your policy input as to how these 
instruments can be used to effect the kind of policies that are 
useful for you. Thanks for asking, Keller.
    Mr. Trudell. Is there any native participation on this 
border commission?
    Mr. Vanderwagen. The border commission participants by law 
are designated by the governors of the four States along the 
boundary. And for the border health component of that 
commission, we've had two Indian people, I don't think tribally 
designated representatives, but there is an Indian Pasaweocki 
physician that lives in Sierra Vista that was on the Arizona 
side. There was also a woman who had Mexican-Indian family 
folks from Arizona as well.
    But I do not believe that the tribal leadership has been 
consulted in designating members to that commission. It's 
another opportunity, however, I think, for tribal leadership to 
bring their issues to the floor. Tohono O'Odham has made the 
best, the best presentations. The tribe, represented through 
the vice chair and the health committee have made the best 
representation of how border issues and health can be dealt 
with at the border commission. So I have to acknowledge the 
quality of the program and Sylvia and the other folks have just 
done a marvelous job with that. But there is no formal 
representation from the tribes on those commissions, as I'm 
aware of it.
    Mr. Trudell. Any questions, come forward and speak into the 
microphone. Others who may have questions, you can slide toward 
the front here to get to a microphone when you see an opening.
    Mr. Stenskar. Good morning, and I'm glad to be here. My 
name is John Stenskar, a member of the Colville Business 
Council. Not so much a question, just a comment. There are some 
ears here that could possibly hear it, what an example of why 
homeland security is not working at this time as far as 
Washington and how those dollars are passed out.
    I guess to give a little bit clearer picture of Grand 
Cooley, which two-thirds of it sits on the Colville Indian 
Reservation, as was mentioned, it was on a list of targets that 
was found by Al Qaeda in one of their caves. If Grand Cooley 
was to be taken out, there are six or seven dams down the river 
along with, as was mentioned, Hanford. The west coast virtually 
would be without power, the majority of the power comes from 
those dams on the Columbia River. And the other interesting 
thing that he points out, earlier was pointed out about 
Hanford, if they use the same ideas that they did in New York, 
what if those planes were loaded with chemicals when they took 
out Grand Cooley, the devastation that would cause throughout 
the west coast. Irrigation districts, there's a major 
irrigation district that would be completely shut down.
    Talking about preparedness, one of the things that we don't 
see happening, they all continue talking about what happens 
after. We don't see anything being done to protect Grand Cooley 
to begin with. They have a security force on the ground, which 
we have a few of our tribal members that are part of that 
force. But there's no air protection, water protection.
    And the other thing is, talking about Grand Cooley itself, 
there's 150 miles of water behind that. As I stated earlier, it 
will take out everything down along the Columbia. I heard of an 
estimate clear back in the 1970's that if Grand Cooley was to 
go out, it would not only take out all of the towns, but all of 
Portland would be, Portland-Vancouver would end up in the 
ocean. It is a major target. And I appreciate hearing the other 
concerns that have been brought up this morning about border 
crossings. But in our stance, looking at the situation, there's 
a total lack of protection of that facility.
    Currently, in Washington, we have to, we are at the same 
levels with the local county governments and municipalities, 
the first draft has come out without any consultation with 
tribes as far as I know, at least with Colville. Colville, in 
north central Washington, we are the largest employer, we have 
the largest law enforcement office, largest EMS programs. Not a 
word was said to us. They set up how much dollars are going per 
county. There are two counties that ``overlap'' our boundaries. 
We weren't asked which county we'd elect to be with, or if we'd 
preferably have our own dollars, so that we can decide what to 
do with those.
    Prior to that document coming out, we were working with the 
local counties and municipalities a preparedness plan, a course 
of action should something happen to Grand Cooley. Since those 
dollar amounts and that document has come out, those meetings 
have virtually stopped. Kind of halted our coordination efforts 
that our staff was working with.
    Furthermore, the original document that came out did not 
come to the tribal government, it came to one of our staff 
people indirectly because they attended a meeting. So that 
really shows the lack of commitment to working with tribes.
    Where do we go from here? To me that's a prime example of 
why the funding should, in our case, come directly to the 
tribes, especially when we have the largest force. You look at 
our area, all the hospitals are off the reservation. We have a 
clinic. We are currently building two new health facilities 
that we're kind of hurting for funding for. It's all coming out 
of the tribal dollars and third party billings and contracting 
of the plan. But these facilities will be up and running this 
fall or early spring. And looking at dollars, if Grand Cooley 
was taken out, the only medical facilities anybody would have, 
they'd have to rely on the tribes on our side of the river in 
our area.
    But I guess, it's just more of a comment than a question, 
just to explain what we're dealing with and what we're looking 
at. And they talked about border issues and considering 
everything within 100 miles. The Colville Indian Reservation, 
our northern boundary is approximately 40 miles from the 
Canadian border. But I just wanted to make that comment and 
thank you very much.
    Mr. Trudell. Other questions? I know in reading the USA 
Today, last week, I think, when there was an article about 
various communities receiving Federal funding, and they didn't 
even know what they were going to do with it. And here you have 
tribes who have responsibilities that just can't get their foot 
in the door or are just kind of an afterthought.
    I think for those of you who are new in your positions and 
new in the Federal Government, many relationships between 
tribes and States, when it comes to funding, it just doesn't 
work. I don't know what it's going to take for certain members 
of the Congress to recognize that and deal with it for what it 
is, as opposed to trying to make it something that is just not 
going to work. So hopefully that becomes a discussion topic for 
you as you try to do your outreach.
    Ms. Stacey. Good morning. My name is Naomi Stacey, I'm an 
attorney at the Umatilla Tribes over by Pendleton, OR. I really 
want to thank you for the comments from Colville, because 
actually they pretty much laid out the groundwork for what the 
Umatilla Tribes has experienced.
    Umatilla Tribes takes this very seriously. We've brought 
with us some of our elected officials, Armand Menthorn, our 
fire chief, Rob Burnside. They've been tremendous in making 
sure that our message is brought to Washington, DC, because our 
work at home has been a big drain on the limited resources that 
we have, and we know we're not in a different boat than many 
people, including our local governments around us and the 
    What I wanted to focus on, ending up with a question, with 
just a few more comments to kind of give some background to my 
question, is that I'm focusing on tribes designated as local 
governments. And mostly I'm interested to see in the 
Administration what kind of experience they have or what kind 
of knowledge they have of the issues and if they have any 
comments they could give us on the Senate hearing that will 
look at S. 578 here tomorrow.
    Our issues are that homeland security is pretty much set up 
in designating tribes as local governments, much like the 
Stafford Act does in FEMA. And we've had a miserable experience 
with FEMA. The Umatilla Tribes are actually one of FEMA's pilot 
tribes, and part of our visit this week is to say that we don't 
want to continue to waste our resources at the local level. We 
haven't had a real good experience. And if this is what FEMA 
has to give other tribes, they're not going to have success in 
Indian country.
    We understand that FEMA is now a part of DHS. What we're 
concerned about is, does the Administration, do they have an 
idea about what kind of impacts that puts on the tribes as far 
as keeping them as local governments. Because what we're 
finding is we cannot rely on the State to carry our messages 
and not to treat us as important as we are in the region. We're 
not too much different than Colville in the respect that we 
have a lot of power grids, we have a dam adjacent to our 
reservation. We are the largest employer in the county, we're 
better equipped than the county. We provide the only 24/7 
emergency response in many instances in our area.
    At the same time, our State actually has a constitution 
that does not allow their agencies to give funding directly to 
the tribes. So Stafford Act will never work until something's 
changed. Homeland security follows the same path, so you're 
never going to have something that actually works in our area. 
And even so, unfortunately, we have not been able to rely on 
our State to carry the messages or declarations of emergency 
and emergency response as we would.
    So I was hoping to get some feedback, actually, on what 
your understanding of those situations is and if you guys can 
actually speak at all on 578.
    Mr. Miko. I'm John Miko, from the Office of Legislative 
Affairs. Although Cheri handles our tribal coordination, the 
question gets a little bit over into the legislative area. So 
first, I really appreciate and thank everybody for their 
comment. As you know, Cheri and I and our entire department are 
new to this process. I hope that our presence here today 
communicates the Department of Homeland Security's desire to 
work with tribal governments in improving the systems that are 
necessary to help you be the critical partners in our 
nationwide homeland security effort that you need to be.
    With respect to S. 578, and the issue of the Stafford Act 
structure, the Department of Homeland Security, being so new, 
has inherited many things. We've inherited people, we've 
inherited organizations, we've inherited responsibilities, 
we've inherited some challenges. And we've inherited some 
protocols, systems and laws that we are at present trying to 
make work to the best of our ability. So the real challenge of 
our department is trying to make the systems which we have 
brought in work as best we can. That's why Cheri's position was 
established, and that's why we're so excited to have somebody 
in the Department that has a background in working with tribal 
    So as for S. 578, we are going to provide testimony on it 
tomorrow. Actually that testimony is still in its final stages 
of preparation. But I can say that we're excited that S. 578 
provides an opportunity for everybody to sit down and take a 
look at whether there isn't perhaps a better way of doing 
business than the status quo that we have inherited. So I guess 
our short term challenge is to make things work as well as we 
can, given the current law and the protocols that we have, and 
to seize opportunities like the presentation of S. 578 to sit 
down with the Congress and discuss if perhaps we need 
legislative action to be able to do better in the future.
    I'm not sure if that answers your question or not. Go 
ahead, Cheri.
    Ms. Roe. Armand, we're going to meet tomorrow at, I think 
it's 11 o'clock over at FEMA. And we'll discuss, I understand 
the concerns and the MOU that is being worked out. We're going 
to get together and discuss that tomorrow. So I believe 
tomorrow we'll be able to answer your question more directly 
about the relationship with FEMA and the MOU.
    Ms. Stacey. We just want to know more about it, about S. 
578 or no or partial.
    Ms. Roe. I don't think we have----
    Mr. Miko. I think it's best that we testify on S. 578 when 
we testify on S. 578, so we look forward to doing that. And 
we'll do it at the hearing tomorrow. I think that's maybe the 
best way to do it. I don't want to get ahead of our witness for 
tomorrow's hearing. We will provide testimony on S. 578.
    Ms. Stacey. So it will come out tomorrow?
    Mr. Miko. Yes.
    Ms. Stacey. Thank you.
    Ms. Juan-Saunders. I have a question for staff in DHS. Do 
you have a policy on government to government consultation with 
tribal nations, or are you working on a policy? That's really 
important to tribal governments in general, but more 
importantly through our experience over the last month, in 
dealing with the changes coming down from Washington, DC.
    Ms. Roe. And I agree, I do understand the importance of a 
strategic plan. And we have not developed that as yet. And our 
workings, we're still getting a handle on the different 
policies and plans that exist already through the other 
departments, bureaus and then we'll put that together and come 
out with a strategic plan.
    Mr. Allen. I couldn't agree more with Chairman Saunders' 
issue about government to government relationships and the 
policy and process for the new Department. Probably more 
important to all the Federal agencies is resources. I think 
that we are in synch with regard to the importance of the 
coordination, collaboration, communication. The bottom line is 
that the enforcement vehicles that we have in our communities, 
the communication systems, the ability, the training capacity 
in order to get up to speed with all the more current 
techniques to communicate, the Tohono O'Odham are just one 
example, Blackfeet another one, St. Regis another one. So you 
know about all those various areas and the complexities of 
their respective terrains, or whether it's a tribe in the heart 
of America, whether it's in Lakota country and so forth.
    So the bottomline is, we can certainly get in synch on the 
concurrence of the importance of being prepared for terrorism 
in all its forms, and all the different kinds of activities. 
But what resources are being planned in order to assist us in 
dealing with these matters? When we look at the Indian budgets 
across every department, we're not getting any resources. No 
resources are coming to us.
    So if this is a priority for America, then it needs to be a 
priority for the Indian communities as well. So I guess the 
question I would have to you as representatives of the various 
departments is, are you planning and making adjustments to the 
budgets in order to assure that sufficient and reasonable 
resources are being made available to the tribal governments in 
our infrastructural capacity as much as any other government?
    Mr. Noka. Good morning. My name is Randy Noka, I'm first 
councilman for the Naragansett Tribe. I think Dick may have 
made some kind of mention about me before. I've been in the 
news a little bit lately, as well as others from my tribe. But 
one could argue homeland security there, too. [Laughter.]
    But in any event, and on a more serious note applicable to 
today, it's too bad, maybe in a perfect world if we ever get 
there, or a better world for Indian people and Indian nations, 
then the Administration, Congress, whichever side, it won't be 
necessary to have this type of legislation brought forward, 
because we'll automatically be in the legislation that brings 
about a homeland security act or whatever the case may be. It 
shouldn't be that tribes have to resort to a secondary 
amendment type legislation in order to be given the same 
considerations as States and local governments.
    I forget your name, sir, but you spoke about the testimony 
you'll be giving tomorrow, and keeping it close to the vest as 
to what type of testimony. I know I had a question that I was 
going to address more so to Larry, perhaps, but it's in the 
same thought that, where is the Administration on this. 
Granted, this is the Senate and it's friends of Indian country 
that are bringing it. But it would be nice to know. I guess 
we'll find out tomorrow, perhaps, where the Administration is 
on this, where Interior is on this. Because frankly, that's who 
should be the strongest advocates for us.
    But time and again, it seems like we're fighting them just 
as much as we're fighting others, or we're not getting the 
support that we think we deserve or we should be having, the 
government to government consultation that hasn't been 
acknowledged with the Tohono O'Odham and others, the St. Regis 
Mohawk, whatever the case may be, border tribes, never mind 
wherever they are, interior tribes. We should have the same 
respect, the same protocol, the same understanding that the 
States have, no second thought, no hesitation given to the 
States. If we ever come to that point, then maybe tribes 
wouldn't have to fight the way we are fighting time and again.
    And again, if you're not ready to answer it, fine, I guess 
we'll see what tomorrow will bring for testimony. But where is 
the Administration on this, is what I'd like to know. Thank 
    Mr. Johnson. Good morning. My name is Anthony Johnson. I'm 
the chairman of the Nez Perce Tribe.
    My question is to Cheri. You made a statement in your 
comments about the Native Americans being active participants 
in the shaping of the policies for, I believe it was State 
advisory boards and what-not, and your involvement in FEMA. So 
with that, I've heard from the Umatillas and the Colvilles that 
they, like the Nez Perce Tribe, have not been involved in the 
    So my question gets to how tribal participation has 
occurred, because answering the how will help us as Indian 
tribes get to what has gone wrong and how to fix it and kind of 
help gauge in whatever the conversation tomorrow would be. So 
I'd like a little bit on how we've been involved and maybe in 
that manner we'll be able to find out where the communication 
has broken down from State to State, as it seems to have. 
That's what I'd like to know. Thank you very much.
    Ms. Roe. I think I was saying that through the process, in 
the planning that goes to the Homeland Security advisor, right 
now the money is given through the State and the State develops 
a plan. Through that plan is the communication between the 
locals and the tribes and the Homeland Security advisor and the 
councils that are put together in the different States.
    In the money, in the Homeland Security Office of Domestic 
Preparedness Bill, the money is provided through the State to 
the locals and the tribes. And the coordination of how that 
State decides in the plan how they're going to distribute that 
money. So I can't speak to the fact that how the communication 
between the tribes and the State has occurred. I know in some 
States they have opened dialogue. I know George Little, we 
worked together and you put together a meeting with the Arizona 
homeland security advisor and had a dialogue that I believe was 
pretty successful in at least sharing ideas. And so that is the 
process that exists right now, with the money that goes out 
from ODP.
    As far as other moneys through the Department of Homeland 
Security, I know that the fire grants are provided directly to 
and through the fire departments. They make the application and 
the money goes there. That's the answer to your question.
    Mr. Martin. My name's Tim Martin. I'm the executive 
director of USET, United South and Eastern Tribes, representing 
24 tribes in the east and southeastern part of the United 
    To that particular issue, I'm only aware of three States 
that I know of, Arizona, I think Wisconsin and the State of 
Maine that have actually given money to tribes to combat 
bioterrorism. USET was actually, in the State of Maine, given a 
grant from the State of Maine to work for the five tribes in 
the State of Maine.
    The problem being is that as you talked about, of course, 
is moneys going out to the States and then the States using 
allocation. They're using allocation of the makeup of the 
citizenships of the States as far as allocations. And by and 
large, tribes in most of the States represent less than 1 
percent of the population of the States. But what they're 
missing, the fact is that we have the legal standing through 
our treaties and obligations, and that we have to look at the 
core preparedness costs of those.
    The other question is, is there a pool of emergency money 
that if you have an incident that will go way beyond the core 
capacity to respond to be able to respond to the actual 
emergency that may occur on or near the reservations. But I 
would like for you to take back that they've got to change 
their thinking about their allocation, that we have a legal 
standing. We're not a minority. We are a special relationship 
and enjoy government to government relationship with the 
Federal Government.
    Ms. Roe. I'll take that back, and I will make sure that I 
say that to the appropriate people. Thanks.
    Mr. Vanderwagen. I think Tim asked a fair question. Is 
there a pool of dollars that's held in reserve for emergencies, 
and in general, Congress doesn't appropriate that way. I think 
individual agencies may have, as you know in Indian Health, we 
do have a small reserve that the director maintains for such 
emergencies. But on a larger scope, no, there probably isn't.
    Now, we can call upon, the tribes can call upon the 
strategic stockpile, should there be a need for drugs and 
medical equipment in an emergency environment. And in fact 
we've deployed the commission corps folks for a number of 
tribal requests in Alaska, California, and other places. And 
there would be those resources to call upon in an emergency 
situation to support the core of what is available at the 
community level. But at this point, there really is not an 
emergency fund that's there to draw down against of any large 
    Mr. Martin. [not at microphone.] I don't know if they took 
care of it. But I didn't see them taping into any kind of core 
funding [inaudible]. We have tribes already planning. Indian 
Health Service went by far, can demonstrate now, we have the 
capacity to respond. We have a better capacity to respond than 
the majority, I would think, of any local non-Indian government 
within the general areas of the tribes.
    But what you're finding is you're having this money going 
to the non-Indian local governments which don't even have the 
capacity to take the money and do anything. And they bypass 
tribes that have the capacity that could protect those local 
non-Indian communities, but yet we're not begin able to 
participate in it. That's what's got to be corrected. We can 
show evidence we can do more with the money than the non-Indian 
communities, and protect them better than they otherwise would 
be protected now.
    Mr. Vanderwagen. Tim, I happen to agree with you that we 
have capacity in our emergency response that isn't available in 
much of the rest of rural America, in particular. But 
supplementals, I think, are the only approach that Congress 
really puts together out there to deal with a broad scale 
emergency. Other than those pieces that I just described.
    Ms. LFrance. Hi, good morning. My name is Rita LaFrance and 
I'm the director of Health and Human Services with the St. 
Regis Mohawk Tribe in Akwesasne, NY.
    I'm also a Kaiser Fellow this year, and my question is in 
relation to my placement, which is with Senator Tim Johnson of 
South Dakota. And this question and comment is for the HHS 
representatives. Senator Johnson is very concerned about his 
constituents, particularly because they are direct service 
tribes for health services. It is our understanding that Indian 
Health Services and the Bureau of Indian Affairs cannot access 
dollars for bioterrorism or the homeland security matters 
directly from State allocations. So we're very concerned that 
our direct service tribes, particularly in South Dakota, are 
not being considered at all and have no access to prepare or 
    The question, I guess, is how does HHS propose to address 
the direct service tribes?
    Mr. Vanderwagen. I think that Rita raises a real valid 
concern, and that is for those tribes that rely on us to manage 
their health system, as opposed to managing it directly, there 
are issues around, can we access funds that tribes might be 
able to access that we can't. In fact, it varies from State to 
State. Our office of general counsel sees no specific 
prohibition necessarily against us receiving funds as part of a 
local planning process for certain ones of the funds. But then 
that depends on how the State has worked out its relationships 
with the locals.
    So that in Arizona, for instance, some of the funding is 
being provided to our facilities for some aspects of the 
emergency response. But it is not consistent and it's not 
coherent in its authority and its application. And I'll defer 
to J.R.
    Mr. Reddig. The problems with the Patriot Act in not being 
inclusive or recognizing the historical relations between the 
tribes and Washington, which predate the States, the States 
didn't exist, that's all true, things were done in haste to try 
to get ready.
    The way I would approach rectifying it, what I intend to do 
our office, is to specify in the guidance from the Secretary 
that when these funds go to the States, which is our only 
cooperative agreement mechanism at this point, when those funds 
go, the States must consider the needs of the tribes in any 
allocation, and directly addressing the fact that no, this is 
not a per capita deal. This is a reflection of historical 
relationships, sizes and responsibilities. Not to mention the 
fact that there is a capability in rural America that happens 
to be an Indian capability that is funded.
    So that's the way I intend to go. And if we can, we can 
work toward a better mechanism in the grant process. In fact, 
we have deployed assistance for grant writing in the process of 
going to the ten regions.
    So that's the way we intend to go. I think we juggled the 
ball a little bit in 2002 and 2003. But don't we always? Isn't 
it always the afterthought in saying, oh, geez, maybe we ought 
to recognize our historical treaty commitments first? Sorry. 
But we'll get better. I know my office will.
    Yes, ma'am?
    Speaker From Audience. [Not at microphone.] Can you tell us 
how your Department could be helpful to the tribes who have a 
particularly challenging environment in certain States, such as 
South Dakota, how you could help maybe, I don't know, I don't 
want to say mediate, but how you can help facilitate or bring 
together the States to recognize the responsibility that may 
not be choosing to do so?
    Mr. Reddig. I probably didn't say it strongly enough, I 
think the point is, and the Secretary's guidance to the States 
is that they must incorporate that. And if that recognition is 
not present in the request for cooperative grants, then it 
doesn't meet the criteria. Is that----
    Speaker From Audience. [Not at microphone.] There were very 
few States who even, less than seven States that I recall, or 
around that number, who even had any, in their documents and 
everything, any indications that they had even consulted with 
the tribes to any extent or even considered the tribes. Yet the 
[inaudible] proceeded to go out.
    So I'm concerned that, how serious is the Department on 
trying to resolve these issues, well, we know that there are 
serious State-tribal relations in some of these States.
    Mr. Reddig. I have spent more time in the chow line in the 
Navy than my office exists. So this is going to take a couple 
of cycles to get together. We were lucky to get the money out 
at all in the first cycle. And was there rigorous review? Not 
as rigorous as it could be.
    I've just got to say, mea culpa, we're new, we're going to 
get better. I believe that the guidance is the way to influence 
them, but then you have to have oversight and scrutiny over the 
grants themselves as they come back from the States, and you 
have to have understanding of those States where there are more 
tenuous relations between State health offices and the tribes. 
I've got you.
    All I can do is say that we're going to pay attention to 
it. And the guidance mechanism is the only hammer we have on 
the dollars.
    Ms. Jackson. [Not at microphone.] Back to this direct 
service problem, and I really appreciate the fact that you're 
new [inaudible].
    Mr. Reddig. She says she really appreciates that I have 
made a commitment to give all kinds of dollars to the tribes. 
    Ms. Jackson. I do appreciate the fact that HHS has 
indicated their willingness to help us. Oh, I'm Dana Jackson, I 
work with Rita for Senator Tim Johnson of South Dakota. I'm 
tickled that HHS is going to help us, because South Dakota 
isn't alone in being a State that has had challenging 
relationships, I think is what Jackie said, with the tribes.
    But I want to reiterate the point, and we've got to think 
of Navajo here too, and we've got to think of our South Dakota-
North Dakota tribes, that's probably, I'm going to go so far to 
say, and I think it's Cherokee too, who are direct service 
tribes. That is a significant chunk of tribal populations. And 
I think there are some Montana direct service tribes, if I'm 
not mistaken.
    What the problem is, is that because IHS is conducting the 
services on behalf of the tribe, they have to go, a Federal 
agency would have to go to the State to apply. And the inherent 
problem of the Federal Government being subservient to the 
State government is I think, it might even be a tremendous 
legal difficulty. I think that if we're going to talk seriously 
about legislation, we should contemplate that particular 
section, and we're happy to look at if from our office if it 
needs to be fixed on a legislative perspective. Of course, we 
can't do that without the Administration's blessings. So we are 
encouraged to hear that you're willing to work with us, and I 
hope that you get what a serious problem that is for our direct 
service tribes.
    Mr. Newcomb. My name is Steve Newcomb. I'm Shawnee 
Delaware. I'm indigenous law research coordinator at DQ 
University of Sequon and director of the Indigenous Law 
    I just want to say that I was struck by the evident lack of 
transparency in response to several questions that were asked, 
particularly by the chairperson from Nez Perce, by the 
representative from Umatilla, in asking about the rationale for 
the definition of Indian nations as local governments within 
the Homeland Security Act. And there was no answer forthcoming.
    Also a question with regard to communication between Indian 
nations and FEMA, and whether or not that had actually 
occurred. There was no answer forthcoming to that question. I 
would just like to suggest that in the spirit of cooperation 
and some of the other themes that have been discussed here 
today that are so vitally important to the issues that are 
being discussed that it would be really wonderful to have a 
much more open and direct and candid conversation on these very 
fundamental and important issues.
    I would like to say one last thing, that it is important to 
keep in mind that there's a larger context to this definition 
of Indian nations within the international arena. Some of you 
may know that with regard to the U.N. draft declaration on the 
rights of indigenous peoples that the Clinton administration, 
right when it ended, came out with a policy statement regarding 
Indian nationhood. It said that Indians only have the right of 
self determination to be negotiated, with the nation states 
within which, I'm paraphrasing here, but within which they are 
basically encircled. And that they do not have an inherent 
right to simply define their own status.
    I see that perhaps the homeland security language with 
regard to Indian nationhood is actually a conscious intention 
on the part of the U.S. Government to undermine and directly, 
in a sense, weaken the definition of Indian governments as a 
concerted strategy that's in keeping with that policy position 
that was actually taken on by the Bush administration and 
became formal policy of the Bush administration as well.
    So if anyone would like to address any of these, I'd be 
willing to hear your answers. Thank you very much.
    Mr. Heffelfinger. I'm not going to address DHS' position on 
sovereign to sovereign, but let me suggest, and I think I 
really need to respond because the impression I've gathered 
over the last 15 to 20 minutes is there is some concern that 
the Administration is not being candid and open, nor confirming 
its intent to deal with the nations, tribal communities, on a 
sovereign to sovereign basis.
    The President, in November 2001, issued a proclamation 
reaffirming this Administration's commitment, as prior 
Administrations have done, to dealing with nations on a 
sovereign to sovereign basis. The issues laid out in S. 578 
address those issues, and on behalf of the Department of 
Justice, we're glad that the Senate is looking at those issues 
as they apply to the homeland security bill.
    But I need to suggest to you that on a broad range of 
issues, at least those of us in the Department of Justice, in 
our dealings with the various tribes, feel it is essential to 
our performing our mission, on a broad range of issues, to deal 
face to face with the tribes. I said in my prepared remarks, I 
alluded to a meeting we had in Tucson where we met with Tohono 
O'Odham and several other of the Arizona tribes regarding the 
border. That was to give us an opportunity to have a dialog in 
a smaller environment than this about the concerns and needs of 
the particular tribes in that region.
    Every time that we meet, and we meet quarterly, we meet in 
Indian country. For example, we met about 1 year or so in 
Albuquerque to address issues of domestic abuse. And in 
Albuquerque we had a meeting with representatives of everyone 
of the tribes and Pueblos in New Mexico. We met 3 months ago up 
in Rapid City to discuss issues of drug abuse and gang violence 
in Indian country. We had representatives from several of the 
South Dakota tribes in attendance at that.
    We'll be meeting in 3 months in California, actually 
Nevada, to address issues of Indian gaming with the entire 
NIGC. And we'll be inviting representatives of NIGA as well as 
the California tribes to address us at that.
    So on a broad range of issues, other than, beyond what we 
are talking about here today, this Administration attempts to 
deal on a sovereign to sovereign basis, as the President has 
affirmed we will. I think you need to recognize that we were 
invited by, and I will speak tomorrow regarding the Department 
of Justice's position on S. 578, but we were asked to address 
those issues tomorrow. And I apologize if that request for some 
patience is interpreted as evasiveness. It is not. We will be, 
at least on my behalf and on behalf of the Department of 
Justice, we will be clear on our position.
    Thank you very much.
    Ms. Roe. I just wanted to make one last comment. The 
Department of Homeland Security does, and is working, 
government to government with the tribes and in our outreach. I 
just wanted to reaffirm that. And again, to the testimony, we 
will again give the testimony tomorrow.
    But I just wanted to confirm that any questions or any kind 
of interaction or any kind of meetings or any kind of 
information that we need to share within the Department, give 
me a call, I'll share that within the Department and we'll make 
every effort to do what we can and coordinate with the tribes 
and the different departments and bureaus and divisions. Thank 
    Mr. Trudell. Well, we look forward to hearing your 
positions tomorrow in terms of where the Administration stands 
on some of these matters. It's unfortunate in some respects 
that the train has left the station and the tribes were left 
off the train, which isn't new in many respects when it comes 
to the relationships and certainly funding.
    I appreciate everyone being patient this morning and 
sitting through this without a break or anything. But there's 
been a lot of good information laid on the table. I would 
certainly encourage the Administration, there needs to be many 
more frank discussions.
    I know Tom, on a quarterly basis, any more it's not even 
good on a quarterly basis. Some of the issues we're dealing 
with, just in the jurisdictional arena, are just overwhelming. 
And to me, it's easier said than done, but obviously any kind 
of government to government relationship and, you know, the 
need for consultation, there's just no excuse for not having 
it. It's easier said than done, and obviously I'm probably 
preaching to the choir here in terms of the tribes, we've been 
through this roller coaster ride so often.
    To me, just commonsense tells you you need to be working 
together and obviously, even though DHS has only been in place 
for a short period, there are lessons to be learned from a 
number of areas why relationships haven't worked well with 
tribes. We hate to see them repeated.
    Again, I thank everyone for taking the time to be here this 
morning. This afternoon there will be more dialog between 
tribal representatives, and we will have a representative from 
Senator Collins' office, since she is the chair of the primary 
committee that has responsibility for homeland security in the 
Senate, the Committee on Governmental Affairs. It would have 
been nice to have her here as well, but we will certainly hear 
from her representative, and then get into seeing how Indian 
country is going to make homeland security work in Indian 
    Having said that, there are box lunches in the back of the 
room. We need to try to get started on time this afternoon, and 
the schedule points out that we will reconvene at 1:30 p.m. So 
that's just a little more than 1 hour, 1 hour and 10 minutes 
from now. So there should be box lunches for everyone, and 
hopefully we will see everyone back at 1:30 p.m. Thank you.
    [Luncheon recess.]

                           AFTERNOON SESSION

    Mr. Trudell. I think it would be helpful if more people 
would move toward the front of the room, if you can, because I 
think when there's a dialog occurring, I think it makes it a 
little better if we're at one end as opposed to spread around 
the table or the backup chairs.
    There's a number of empty chairs on this side, or to my 
left, especially for the people who are on the program and are 
scheduled to speak this afternoon, it would be nice if they 
would come up a little closer. I think this afternoon will be 
as equally informative as this morning was. I thought everyone 
really put a lot on the table in terms of their concerns and 
obviously the work that lies ahead for Indian country in terms 
of really trying to engage the departments more to get 
different responses, and in terms of their working on something 
or what have you. But hopefully they'll take this area a lot 
more seriously.
    As the schedule points out, we have a representative from 
Senator Collins' office. We have a person different than is 
listed on the program. His name is Michael Bopp, and he is the 
staff director and chief counsel for the Committee on 
Governmental Affairs. I think as we mentioned this morning, 
Senator Collins chairs that committee, and is also active in a 
number of other areas.
    I was looking forward to meeting her. Her bio is very 
impressive in terms of, and maybe Michael will comment on it as 
well, the fact that she's been a dedicated person to public 
service and obviously has received a number of, a lot of good 
things said about her in terms of her concern about effective 
governance and what have you. But rather than to say much more, 
I think we should just turn the mic over to Michael Bopp, who 
will share with us some of the thoughts or suggestions that the 
Senator would have shared with us if she had been here.


    Mr. Bopp. Thank you, and thank you for inviting me to speak 
to you here today. Senator Collins, unfortunately Chairman 
Collins could not make it. She was actually planning on coming, 
but in the week before the August recess, schedules are very 
unpredictable. We actually have two hearings in the Committee 
on Governmental Affairs today, two hearings tomorrow and 
another one Thursday. Unfortunately she could not be here and 
sends her regrets.
    I am the staff director and chief counsel of the Committee 
on Governmental Affairs, which has primary jurisdiction over 
the Department of Homeland Security within the Senate. And the 
Committee on Governmental Affairs has been very active in 
overseeing the Department and helping the Department get up and 
running in its first, now I guess it's about 160 days or 50 
days. It's amazing to think that the Department didn't even 
exist less than 1 year ago, when Congress finally came together 
and passed legislation. Now it really is up and running. It's 
not fully functioning, but it's definitely up and running.
    The Committee on Governmental Affairs oversees all of the 
programs, or actually that's not quite true, most of the 
programs of the Department of Homeland Security, most notably, 
perhaps of most interest to you, including its homeland 
security grants programs. And I appreciated, I know Senator 
Collins did as well, the opportunity to discuss the need for 
the Department to improve its partnership with tribal 
governments. The issues that you've been discussing today, as I 
understand it, and many of the issues raised in the bill, S. 
578, introduced by Senator Inouye and Senator Campbell and 
others, are issues that came up to some extent in the Homeland 
Security bill, when the Senate debated it last fall. However, 
those issues were not resolved. And Senator Collins knows that 
there needs to be a continuing dialog, and something needs to 
be done to improve the Department's partnership with tribal 
    The role of tribal governments, law enforcement and 
emergency responders is clearly vital to our Nation's security. 
Protecting the critical infrastructure, such as dams, military 
bases, and guarding international borders are just two of the 
many ways our tribal governments and their first responders 
assist the Department in preventing against terrorist attacks. 
The fact is, the needs of tribal, State and local governments 
are as diverse as the communities they represent. And we must 
make sure that homeland security programs are flexible enough 
to address these unique needs.
    Over the past 6 months, the Committee on Governmental 
Affairs has held a series of hearings, I think it's eight in 
all now, to take a comprehensive look at homeland security 
grant programs for States, communities and for first 
responders. These hearings have illustrated what many of you 
know first-hand, that the Federal Government needs to improve 
its homeland security partnership with State and local 
governments and tribal nations. The hearings have shown that 
too much red tape is holding back homeland security dollars 
from reaching your communities, and the issues that you have 
been discussing today and the issues you've experienced through 
much frustration, no doubt, are issues and frustrations that 
are shared largely by local governments as well. We've heard 
quite a bit about that, and we're very sensitive to those 
    After a series of hearings, Senator Collins introduced 
legislation, the Homeland Security Grant Enhancement Act, to 
streamline and strengthen the way we support our first 
responders. The bill would make it easier to apply for grants, 
promote more flexibility in grant funding and make sure every 
community receives a long term, steady stream of funding, which 
I know is important for tribal governments as well.
    Just about 1 month ago, the Committee on Governmental 
Affairs unanimously approved this legislation. The committee is 
also reviewing a number of other homeland security issues. For 
example, I know that the bill that Senators Inouye and Campbell 
have introduced would explore the way the tribal governments 
receive homeland security dollars and would actually change the 
way they now receive or don't receive homeland security 
dollars. Senator Collins shares their interests and that of 
many here today to make sure tribal governments receive the 
resources they need to better protect the homeland.
    The legislation Senator Inouye introduced, the Tribal 
Government Amendments to the Homeland Security Act of 2002, has 
actually been referred to the Committee on Governmental 
Affairs, so it is in our jurisdiction. Our staff is currently 
reviewing the legislation and we understand that the Committee 
on Indian Affairs has scheduled a hearing on the proposal 
tomorrow. Senator Collins is very supportive of that hearing 
and is eager to review the testimony that is taken tomorrow.
    We feel that through that testimony and through the 
legislative record that is set out tomorrow and developed 
tomorrow, our committee can then move forward and try to figure 
out a better way for the Federal Government to partner with 
tribal governments to better protect our communities. I know 
that's sort of a very general overview of what the Senate 
Committee on Governmental Affairs is doing. And I would be the 
first to admit that you are all more familiar with S. 578 than 
we are. However, we are definitely taking a close look at it, 
and have taken a look at it to some extent already.
    The final thing I would say is that the hearings we've 
conducted on Senator Collins' bill that passed out of the 
committee unanimously, and that probably will become at some 
point a Floor vehicle, we do expect to get some Floor time in 
the Senate, either later this year or early next year, also 
becomes a vehicle for the changes you're looking to make. It's 
extremely difficult to get Floor time at this juncture, 
particularly given that we have nine appropriations bills that 
haven't been completed and have to be completed by September 30 
of this year. The rest of this year is going to be devoted 
almost exclusively to appropriations measures.
    However, Senator Collins is working very hard in a 
bipartisan basis with Senator Levin, Senator Carver, Senator 
Lieberman, and others, to move her legislation and to get Floor 
time. If that happens, that's the vehicle in which to deal with 
the issues that S. 578 raises. Senator Collins has asked me to 
make it very clear that she is open to and really wants to sit 
down and figure out a way that tribal governments don't 
experience the same sorts of frustrations that local 
governments are now experiencing because they're not getting 
their money as they're supposed to and as the legislative 
language actually mandates that they get. They're not getting 
the money and it's just taking too long and the process is not 
working as it should.
    So with that, if anyone has any questions, I'd be glad to 
try to field them.
    Mr. Trudell. Mike, do you want to comment on the funding 
for homeland security, is that a separate spending bill or is 
it a part of one of the other existing bills?
    Mr. Bopp. Actually this year was the first year that a 
separate homeland security appropriations bill moved through 
the Senate and it actually moved and passed the Senate last 
week by a resounding margin. The House has also passed a 
homeland security appropriations bill, so that bill will be 
conferenced and should be wrapped up actually by September 30 
or October 1 the start of the next fiscal year.
    That bill contained very little legislative language in it. 
It really wasn't, because of Senate rules, it really was not a 
vehicle for legislative change, as Senator Collins did not try 
to move her bill, trying to fix the grants process through that 
bill. In other words, we need an actual legislative vehicle on 
the Floor. Senator Collins has already talked to Senator Frist 
and the leadership actually on both sides to try to get Floor 
time for that measure.
    Mr. Trudell. Does anybody have questions? Come up here and 
identify yourself and speak into the microphone. As we 
mentioned this morning, the proceedings for this meeting will 
become a part of the record here in the Senate for Tribes and 
Homeland Security. So we're trying to make it as accurate as 
possible, particularly for the court reporter here who needs to 
know who is speaking.
    Ms. Stacey. Good afternoon. I'm Naomi Stacey, I'm one of 
the attorneys at the Umatilla Tribes out by Pendleton, OR.
    I was wondering if you could share any of the input the 
committee has been receiving, particularly whether this is well 
received or if there's criticism, anything you could share on 
    Mr. Bopp. As you can imagine, most of the input we've 
received, largely from local governments, county governments, 
State emergency managers, has been somewhat critical of the 
Department's process for distributing grant funding. It's truly 
amazing how much grant funding has gotten out the door already. 
For that, I think, the Department deserves some praise. In the 
last 3 years alone, I've seen figures, if you total up the 2004 
money as well, so you have 2002, 2003, and 2004 money combined, 
about $8 billion have gone out or will go out the door by the 
end of 2004, specifically for State and local governments and 
first responders to address homeland security concerns.
    The testimony we've received at the Committee on 
Governmental Affairs has by and large pointed out problems with 
the way that money is distributed. Some people have problems 
with the formula through which the money is distributed. Some 
people believe that larger, more populous States should get a 
bigger slice of the pie. Others believe that small States 
aren't getting enough, and that each State has homeland 
security problems whether it's Wyoming or New York.
    The other problem we've been hearing is that there's too 
much redtape, and that States who right now are sort of the 
focal point for homeland security funding, when the funding 
leaves the Department of Homeland Security, it goes to the 
States and the States are supposed to distribute the funding 
according to a plan. One criticism we've heard is that States 
are not including all of the right parties at the table. Not 
everyone's got a seat at the bargaining table, not everyone who 
needs homeland security funding is being allowed even to sort 
of participate and to receive a portion of what is a whole lot 
of money.
    The other testimony we've received that bears upon changes 
that need to be made to the homeland security grant program is 
that the funding that's gone out so far is relatively 
inflexible. The funding has gone out in four different 
categories. If it turns out that a State has used, let's say, 
all its equipment dollars but hasn't used all its training 
dollars, it can't shift training dollars to buy more equipment. 
And in some cases, including in Maine, a lot of that money is 
still, or a good chunk of that money is still sitting there 
unused, because the money has come with these strings attached.
    Speaker From Audience. [Not at microphone] [inaudible].
    Mr. Bopp. I'm sorry, actually we have not taken any 
testimony specifically on S. 578 in the Committee on 
Governmental Affairs. We've not held a legislative hearing on 
S. 578. We are eager to read the record of today's and 
tomorrow's proceedings, and then if another hearing is 
warranted after that, we'd certainly take it up. It's a bit of 
an unusual situation, since Senators Inouye and Campbell 
introduced the measure, Chairman Collins felt it made sense to 
give them the first opportunity to hold a hearing on their own 
bill, even though the bill has been referred to Governmental 
Affairs. What we're going to do is treat the record of this 
hearing as if it had been a legislative hearing in Governmental 
Affairs for purposes of whether or not and how to move your 
bill, or to move S. 578.
    So we haven't taken any testimony on S. 578. What I was 
trying to do was recount testimony we've taken that might be of 
interest or might reflect concerns the tribal governments have 
that are the same concerns as local governments.
    Speaker From Audience. [not at microphone] [inaudible] can 
you share [inaudible].
    Mr. Bopp. On S. 578? We haven't gotten any feedback, to be 
honest with you.
    Speaker From Audience. [not at microphone] [inaudible].
    Mr. Bopp. No; informal or otherwise.
    Ms. Herdman. Thank you, Mr. Bopp. My name is Vernita 
Herdman. I'm Inupiak. I'm from the native village of 
    I have specific concerns, and it's good to hear you say 
that you're treating this as kind of a quasi-hearing. With an 
obscure section of S. 578 under the definitions, which most 
people pass over when they're looking at legislation, 
specifically under section 3 table of contents, definitions, 
non-Indian tribe. There's been a lot of talk in the papers 
lately about 16 words from our President. I'm talking about 
five words in this bill. And those five words are, excluding 
the State of Alaska. If this language, five words, excluding 
the State of Alaska, is allowed to stay in this bill, then it 
effectively erases the ability of Alaska's 229 federally-
recognized tribes from being part of those who are involved and 
at the table when talking about homeland security. I think that 
is an insult to people like the people of my home village.
    I spoke about that village when NCAI conducted its meeting 
in Portland last week as a village that has been in that place 
for 1,500 years. We've been there since 500 A.D. And we've 
always been self-governing and we've always taken care of our 
own people. Members of my family, including my father and my 
brothers, have served in the military forces of the United 
States. I think it should be brought up here again, and I 
haven't heard it brought up this morning, that Native 
Americans, per capita, provide the largest number of people to 
serve in the United States armed forces. For this definition to 
exclude our 229 federally-recognized tribes and for the 
definition of those governments that can participate in this 
legislation to exclude tribal governments is an insult to that 
    I would appreciate it if you would pass that on to your 
chairman, Mr. Bopp. This is a matter that is not trivial to my 
people. My parents are still alive, my father is 86. He served 
in what was back then called the Eskimo Guard, the people that 
guarded the coastlines of Alaska. Alaska has 30,000 miles of 
coastline, 586,000 square miles of land. We also have the 
Canadian border. We have Inupiak people, we have Tlingit 
people, we have Athabascan people. And all of those 
nationalities have relatives on the other side of the borders 
that they share with Russia and Canada. I would hope that you 
would pass this concern on to the committee, and specifically 
to Chairman Collins.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Bohnee. Good afternoon. My name is Gary Bohnee, I'm 
with the Gila River Indian Community from the Phoenix, AZ area.
    We're set to testify tomorrow at the hearing on S. 578. But 
I did just want to mention to you, one of the things that we 
will be submitting forward to you is, I think you referenced S. 
1245. And while I think the Inouye-Campbell is a right step in 
the direction of establishing more of a direct partnership 
between the Department of Homeland Security and tribes, 
obviously S. 1245 is where the money's at. In terms of building 
infrastructure and funding for training and all the things 
necessary where I think tribes lack, I think we would like, and 
I think we will be proposing some specific amendments to that 
bill, which I think, I hope, will be helpful to you as tribal 
governments are always looking for the programs that would 
benefit us to participate in that process.
    And I think we'll also be, Governor Napolitano from the 
State of Arizona will also be providing a letter in support of 
the Campbell-Inouye legislation. I think she has worked hard 
with the tribes and will continue to do so, so that both not 
only the Federal-tribal relationship but also the State-tribal 
relationship in this whole process, because it is a very 
complicated nexus, we hope to work productively and assist you 
in your efforts here.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Bopp. I'd just like to say I appreciate the comments of 
both speakers and we'll bring those comments to Chairman 
Collins. In particularly with S. 1245, as I mentioned, we know 
that the bill is a work in progress, and in particular this 
issue, the issues addressed by S. 578, are issues we still want 
to address and consider in the context of S. 1245.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Michael.
    As the schedule points out, we want to begin to hear from 
various tribes on a regional and tribe specific basis in terms 
of perspectives about challenges in the homeland security area. 
But before we do that, I want to see if John Echohawk has 
anything to say. He has to leave shortly to get on a conference 
call regarding the Lara case, which some of you are aware of, 
which may be on its way to the Supreme Court.
    John, is there anything you wanted to share before you 


    Mr. Echohawk. Thanks, Dick.
    I wanted to begin by thanking you for all of your efforts 
in putting together this tribal leaders forum on these Homeland 
Security Act issues. As many of you know, Dick Trudell and the 
American Indian Resources Institute over the years has 
sponsored a number of these forums for tribal leaders to 
discuss issues of important national-tribal concern. This issue 
certainly fits within that category.
    As has been mentioned here today, tribes have really been 
left out of the formation of the Department of Homeland 
Security. It's not really the first time that tribes have been 
left out a big national initiative, but again, it's not too 
late to try to correct that, and that's the intent of S. 578. I 
was pleased to work with Dick in trying to move this issue 
forward. I know tribes are very concerned about it. I think 
many of you were at NCAI down at Gila River last month when the 
delegates approved a resolution supporting S. 578.
    As follow-up to that, Dick was kind enough to put together 
a tribal leaders forum out in San Francisco at the beginning of 
the month of July to address the crisis in tribal sovereignty. 
Among those items of discussion at that conference was homeland 
security and S. 578. As part of that conference, we had a good 
discussion on these issues and realized at that time that we 
needed further discussion on those issues, and that led to the 
organization of this meeting here today, preceding the hearing 
    In addition to the tribal leaders forum, this has also been 
an issue of concern to tribal leaders participating in the 
tribal sovereignty protection initiative. I think many of you 
have participated in that, and know that the objective of the 
initiative is to try to enhance tribal sovereignty in every way 
possible, including homeland security. We need to take 
advantage of opportunities that are presented here in 
Washington when major pieces of legislation move forward that 
impact tribes, to make sure that tribal concerns are addressed 
in that legislation. Of course, that's exactly what these 
homeland security amendments do for tribes.
    Based on the representations from Senator Collins' 
representative, who spoke a few minutes ago, it looks like 
we've got a chance to get the important provisions of S. 578 
through in terms of the Congress' amendments to the Homeland 
Security Act that they passed last year. So I think if we're 
all vigilant and keep working this issue with our delegations 
that we may be able to have tribes recognized for having an 
important role in homeland security. But it's not going to 
happen unless we're all very busy with our delegations, making 
sure our Senators know that this is an important issue, not 
only for our tribes but also for the entire Nation.
    So I'm pleased that we've been able to have this meeting 
and to work with Dick Trudell and Patricia Zell and Paul 
Moorehead of the Committee on Indian Affairs staff, putting 
this meeting together. Dick and I were talking earlier about 
the next steps after meetings today and tomorrow. We've still 
got the House of Representatives to go in terms of trying to 
get these kinds of tribal concerns addressed. It's probably 
going to require further meetings like this.
    For better or worse, I think this is the work group that we 
have in Indian country on homeland security. This is a big work 
group, but I think it's one that we have to try to keep 
energized and moving forward with. So I offer my services and I 
think Dick's going to be offering his services as well to do 
whatever kind of follow-up we need to do to make sure these 
homeland security issues keep moving forward in the best 
interests of Indian country.
    Sorry I'm going to have to leave. But as Dick mentioned, 
this tribal Supreme Court project is having a conference call 
here this afternoon on this United States v. Lara case, which 
raises a very important set of issues dealing with the power of 
Congress to recognize inherent sovereign authority that the 
Supreme Court has failed to recognize. So we have, I think for 
better or worse got an important case coming up in the Supreme 
Court that is going to decide who's the final word on inherent 
tribal sovereign authority, the Supreme Court or the Congress.
    So with that, I'm going to have to be excusing myself here 
shortly and rejoining you all tomorrow at the hearing. Thank 
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, John. As we were discussing, 
obviously there needs to be some kind of work group developed 
or whatever. Otherwise this stuff won't happen. Obviously 
looking at the Congressional schedule, with the House already 
in recess and the Senate about to go out, you come back and 
deal with the spending bills and what does that mean in terms 
of homeland security, what does it mean in terms of the tribal 
perspective. So we need to figure out a way to get geared up. I 
think some of the speakers this morning, the tribal speakers in 
particular, I think really provided some invaluable information 
in terms of what they're confronted with and what it's costing 
them, just resources, both human and financial.
    As the schedule points out, I think this part of the 
program is really designed to facilitate some dialogue amongst 
the people in this room. What I wanted to do was change the 
sequence of speakers a little bit, mainly just to kind of set 
the table the correct way. What I mean by that is, I think we 
need to hear from tribes from different States, so we kind of 
get a snapshot of their perspective and what they feel the 
challenges are. So I'm taking the liberty of just trying to 
skew this thing just a little bit to hear from some people I 
think we need to hear from, from different States. But we will 
accommodate everybody that is on the schedule and then some as 
    What I'd like to do is first call on Anthony Pico and 
Drucilla Espinoza from California, the Viejas Band of Kumeyaay 
Indians, and to hear a California perspective. Then we will 
begin to pick off some of the others who haven't had a chance 
to really put some of their concerns on the table.
    So at this time, Anthony and Drucilla.
    Mr. Pico. Thanks, Dick.


    Mr. Pico. I'm Anthony Pico, I'm chairman of the Viejas Band 
of Kumeyaay that's located near San Diego. And we're here to 
support, our tribe supports S. 578, which recognizes tribes as 
sovereign governments and rightful participants in homeland 
security. Because of that statement, I'm certainly that the 
California tribes will support S. 578.
    The Federal policy of governmental and self-determination, 
economic self-sufficiency, had begun with the Nixon 
administration, and has had a profound effect on Indian people. 
It's given us heart and revived our spirit on many reservations 
in many ways not experienced since conquest or our forced 
dependency. In addition, to economic development, the tribes 
are moving to strengthen our governments and take our place not 
just in the country but among the mix of strong, sovereign 
States upon which the American constitutional and democratic 
values and federalism rest.
    The policy has proven effective because it once again 
allows American Indians to hold our heads high, knowing that we 
have a stake and a voice in our future, and the future of our 
children. Our future is tied to America even as it is tied to 
our own ancestral roots.
    We want to be truly free. Freedom and the right to self-
govern is the source of America's strength. American Indians 
know, as well as the founding fathers of America, that freedom 
and responsibility go hand in hand. Only the free learn the 
disciplines of freedom, only the free can practice and 
experience responsibility. Only the free can succeed and fail, 
and between failing and succeeding is the space where the human 
spirit and character are formed and our spirit shines.
    Strong tribal governments capable of meeting 
responsibilities to our people, any who travel or live within 
our jurisdiction, is not possible if we are not recognized as 
sovereign governments. Along with the benefits of America, we 
must share in the obligations. We don't want to become enclaves 
of times gone by; we want to be vital, contemporary communities 
that participate in the building of America's future.
    To leave us out is to leave us behind. To leave us out of 
the homeland security planning, the coordination, the funding, 
except through the States, is to cripple not on the tribes but 
also the renewed spirit tribes find when treated as equals. And 
by equals, I mean people capable of caring, people capable of 
self-governance and caring for our own, participating with 
other governments and proud to be doing our share. I think 
that's the spirit of homeland.
    Who better to understand the spirit of the American 
homeland than the original people? Indians have fought in great 
numbers in every war to defend our homeland. We even fought for 
the United States when we were denied recognition as citizens 
of our own ancestral lands. Native Americans are in Iraq and 
have died there, along with every other race and creed that 
comprises our country.
    My tribe was angered and saddened by the attack on the Twin 
Towers as much as any American. We demonstrated our patriotism 
in the American way and in the Indian way. We held prayer 
vigils on our reservation and hosted the Here's New York photo 
exhibit on the anniversary of 9/11 as a place for all San 
Diegans to go, to remember and honor that tragedy. We sent our 
ceremonial prayer singers to the Twin Towers site to pray for 
peace for the spirits of those who died and the healing for 
those who had lost loved ones.
    The Viejas Indian Reservation is in San Diego County. It's 
a county that's bigger than five of our States, a county 
adjacent to the Mexican border. In our county, the three 
largest Government landholders are the Federal, State, and 
tribal governments. Most of this land, aside from military 
bases, is undeveloped forest, parklands, waterways and Indian 
reservations. Excellent places to hide, to get lost or to lose 
others. There are 17 cities and 17 tribal governments in our 
county. There are 107 recognized tribal government reservations 
in our State of California.
    You all know the saying that a chain is only as strong as 
its weakest link. Despite our presence, potential and interest 
in California, there are no reciprocal government agreements 
for disaster or emergency evacuation planning. This is true 
despite the State's history of earthquakes and devastating 
wildfires. Despite San Diego County's high military profile and 
potential as an enemy target, the State, county and cities have 
never thought to include Indian tribal governments in emergency 
planning or disaster preparedness. We don't expect the State of 
California to change this pattern of behavior when it comes to 
terrorism. This great threat to national security is precisely 
the opportunity for Congress to reaffirm that tribal 
governments have a legitimate sovereign stake in America.
    Maybe some people think that we don't have enough 
populations on reservations to worry about. Well, they're 
wrong. Our governments have a responsibly, the inherent 
sovereign responsibility to every single person in our 
jurisdiction. We want to make sure that our children and 
grandmothers are safe, whether it's a natural disaster or an 
act of terrorism. Equally important, we're part of the 
geography that needs guarding, and we have resources from 
water, land and people.
    We're part of a larger community, and welcome the shared 
responsibility for the welfare of our neighbors, Indian or non-
Indian. Most of our neighbors in California are far from urban 
centers and disaster services. In the rural areas, we are 
doubly vulnerable and more dependent on each other. San Diego 
County and the State need an enhanced capacity to patrol 
reservoirs, border crossings, forests and deserts. And our 
governments need to be part of the larger network of 
communication and coordination that is being established, if 
not today, then for tomorrow.
    A tribal government like Viejas government can provide 
mutual aid for emergency medical services to personnel. We have 
sought and now provide these services for our unincorporated 
neighbors. No one sought our participation. We offered it 
    The Honorable Hank Murphy, council member of the Sequon 
Band of Kumeyaay Nations of San Diego County, is here with me 
now. Chief Murphy wanted to let the committee know that the 
tribes are concerned because California State officials have 
stated that homeland security funds are too limited to meet the 
State's needs. Meanwhile, between Viejas, Brone and Sequon 
Bands of Kumeyaay, we have six advanced life support units 
providing emergency medical services to reservations and our 
non-Indian neighbors. We volunteer our fire trucks and medical 
units to the county-wide mutual aid support system. The tribes 
pay for the equipment and the salaries.
    However, to be prepared to respond on a larger scale, we 
need financial support from homeland security. The county-wide 
mutual aid system needs our help, but it can't pay us. We don't 
want to be ignored, we don't want to be left behind or 
forgotten any more. We don't want to be the weak link. Nor do 
my people want to be isolated from responsibility for our 
neighbors or county in times of need, especially when we can 
    Terrorism, like wildfires and earthquakes, doesn't 
recognize national, State, or county jurisdictions. When it 
comes to working with Indian tribes, it seems that the States 
fear losing power more than they fear America's enemies. The 
Federal Government realized some 40 plus years ago that doing 
away with Indian governments and communities was not going to 
happen. We are a strong and resilient people, and it has become 
clear that keeping our governments dependent and impotent 
wasn't working either. Congress set about an agenda that is now 
working. The agenda honors the United States Constitution, 
historic treaties that affirmed the sovereignty of Indian 
people. Modern policy recognizes America's trust 
responsibilities to tribes, its policy confirms that American 
Indians are not an enemy, nor is our sovereignty a threat, but 
that we desire and need to develop our own strength through our 
own governments.
    Sharing the burdens and the power of governance is the only 
possible policy for American Indians. Time has proven this so. 
Unfortunately, most States have yet to learn this lesson. 
Congress must once again take leadership in reinforcing our 
role and place in America. If States fail to recognize this 
resource or honor our sovereignty, the Congress must. For it's 
Congress to whom we look to keep America's promise to American 
Indians, a promise that in return for our land, we will be 
respected and treated as sovereign governments.
    In closing, I would like to thank the Senate Committee on 
Indian Affairs for its advocacy for Indian sovereignty and S. 
578, which is the latest of many battles that the committee has 
fought with us and for us. America's enemies aren't going to 
limit their next terrorist attacks to Federal or State 
jurisdiction. Neither should the Homeland Security Act limit 
the capability to respond and protect only the Federal or State 
    Please help us educate your colleagues in Congress about 
American Indians and tribal governments and our right and 
responsibility to participate as equals to the States in 
homeland security. This is the most important service the 
Committee can perform on our behalf.
    We stand ready to serve our country. All we need is for 
Congress to support S. 578. Thank you.

                        KUMEYAAY INDIANS

    Ms. Espinoza. Good afternoon. I serve as an elected council 
member of the Viejas tribal government. The Viejas Band of 
Kumeyaay Indians is located in the southern California region 
and county of San Diego, adjacent to the Tiajuana-Baja Mexican 
    I work with tribal youth. My goal is to prepare them to be 
the best possible citizens and contributors to our tribal 
community and the county we share. When my children asked why I 
was coming to this hearing in Washington, DC., I told them I 
wanted to testify that the tribal governments, like the Viejas 
government, want to be able to assist in protecting our 
homeland and our neighbors from terrorism. They wondered why I 
had to ask Congress. Don't they know that we love our 
homeland?, they asked. This is the spirit which my people want 
to add our voices in support of S. 578.
    I ask you to remind Congress that we love our homeland. We 
have fought to defend the United States in World War I, even 
before we were recognized as citizens. I ask you to remind 
Americans that according to the U.S. Constitution, treaties and 
an entire body of legal precedents, tribes are recognized as 
sovereign governments. We loved, preserved and protected the 
land of this country in times of disaster, before there was a 
U.S. Government. We have tribal members serving and dying in 
Iraq. We ask to assist because there is a need for our 
resources and because the Homeland Security Act represents and 
opportunity for tribal governments to be linked to national 
emergency and national defense systems in the same way as 
    In California, where we are located, we are not include in 
any of the State or local governments' emergency response or 
disaster planning. And we will not have the opportunity to work 
as partners with the States and Federal Government unless 
Congress makes it clear that tribes must be included in the 
Homeland Security Act. Neither the State nor counties nor 
cities have seen fit to include us in the past, even though 
there are 107 governments in California. Services and personnel 
are stretched, from border agents to police. Immigrants have 
long found ways to illegally enter and hide in rural areas 
where the only active governments are tribal communities.
    You need our help, yet we are not included. There is no one 
to monitor the reservoirs, like the one place on the Captain 
Grande Reservation, where I am from. The Viejas Band, as 
administrators of that large tract of inhabited land, have 
admittance and oversight. There are many such reservoirs, 
waterways, bays and borders where the most immediate response 
should come from tribal communities. One small bomb could blast 
away the restraining walls of this precious water commodity and 
send millions of tons of water hurtling down a valley that is 
crowded with houses, urban and suburban residents and towns.
    To be without water in any emergency in a State with a very 
limited supply is a formula for disaster, with ramifications 
lasting beyond a natural catastrophe such as an earthquake or 
one created by an enemy act. We have security forces, we have 
tribal people who have shown their skill and courage as elite 
firefighters, working with the Department of Forestry. There is 
a generation of tribal youth willing and able to fill positions 
of responsibility for national protection of our lands, 
neighboring lands and shared resources. We have assisted our 
neighbors in fighting local fires, housing and contributing to 
those left homeless by wildfire. And we have done it on a 
voluntary basis.
    We don't understand why our sovereign governments should 
not be included in this national effort. We ask to be 
acknowledged as sovereign governments by the States and Federal 
Government, and respected for what we can contribute. Failing 
to include tribes in the Homeland Security Act is an oversight 
that if left standing reduces the status of tribes to non-
entities in this very significant national effort. We need to 
be recognized as part of the network of sovereigns, linked and 
cooperative efforts to protect our homelands. I believe this 
would foster and strengthen tribal government relationships and 
communications with States and local governments. Eventually 
setting a precedent and including tribes in a national agenda 
of this sort will extend to other areas where tribes and States 
need to work together as partners. Excluding tribes only 
perpetuates the indifference or even hostility that exists 
towards tribal governments in many States.
    We realize money is limited. In California, without Federal 
direction, the State, facing a large deficit and political 
turmoil, will not share either resources nor responsibility 
with tribes. But the benefits needed at this time in our 
history, as well as the opportunity such collaboration could 
engender is worth the initial investment of including tribes. 
The Viejas Band, like tribes across the Nation, stands ready to 
come to our country's aid. Today is a good time to start 
involving the tribes in this national effort. Tomorrow is too 
    In closing, I would like to thank the Indian Affairs 
Committee for constantly reminding the rest of the Federal 
Government that there is another group of sovereign governments 
who not only have the right but the desire to be considered a 
part of America, and share in all her endeavors. We want to be 
part of the solution to national dangers and problems, just as 
we want to share in the United States' benefits and 
sovereignty. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Drucilla and Anthony.
    Our next presenter is President Audrey Bennett from the 
Prairie Island Indian Community in Minnesota. She offers a 
midwest regional perspective. Audrey?
    Ms. Bennette. Thank you, Dick.

                      COMMUNITY, MINNESOTA

    Ms. Bennette. Some of you don't know me, my name's Audrey 
Bennett, I'm president of Prairie Island Indian Community in 
the State of Minnesota. We are about 35-45 minutes southeast of 
St. Paul, MN. We're right on the banks of the Mississippi 
River, on one side, our reservation is on a peninsula. South to 
us is the Vermillion River. The other neighbor that we have 
living on our reservation, adjacent to us, is a nuclear power 
plant with two reactors, high level radioactive waste stored 
above ground in 17 casks.
    So when this homeland security issue came up, it was a big 
concern for us on Prairie Island. Although we always have been 
active and participating on a Federal and State level when it 
came to nuclear waste and nuclear energy, we took it upon 
ourselves, fortunately through our gaming dollars we had the 
resources to get involved with emergency preparedness for 
ourselves, for the simple fact that we are the only community 
in the United States who lives 600 yards away from a nuclear 
power plant with two reactors. That is a big concern for a lot 
of our tribal members.
    We have a small land base. Where we are located is 340 
acres. Back in the early 1920's and 1930's when they built Lock 
and Dam Number 3 was sited, it flooded over one-half our 
reservation, which we never got compensated to this day. And 
then in the 1960's is when they built the nuclear power plant. 
So I'm the generation who grew up watching the powerplant being 
built. It's been there for 30 some years now. The issues that 
it all entails, talk about health and safety, we have a lot of 
Native American reservations the number one death rate is 
diabetes or alcoholism. But on Prairie Island, it's cancer. So 
that's a big concern for us, because now it's people in my 
generation who grew up with the plant who are starting to see 
different types of cancers.
    You could talk to scientists on both sides of the issues, 
they always say it's genetics or that's the way it is. But if 
it is genetics, I could understand it, most studies have one 
type of cancer, stomach, whatever. But on Prairie Island, it's 
all forms of cancer that our people get, and we don't know why. 
So we took it upon ourselves to hire the best environmental 
people we can to do soil samples, water samples and air samples 
around our reservation borders, specifically the ones that are 
mostly adjacent to the nuclear power plant. And we're 
collecting all that data, we have been doing that for eight 
years now. Hopefully we're doing a health study, we're trying 
to get involved and get a baseline study. That's one of the 
things that was neglected by the Federal Government and State 
officials when they sited that nuclear power plant next to our 
    So when 9/11 came, that was our big concern. Everytime on 
the news when you hear code, different levels of code orange 
and yellow and red, I think our tribal members lived under that 
all our lives, that unknown fear, always being aware of the 
plant being so close and every little noise you hear, you 
think, is it going to blow this time, is it going to go. There 
have been two minor accidents since the plant has been built 
there, back in the 1970's. At that time, those of us that lived 
on the reservation were the last to know that there was an 
accident at the plant. We weren't aware of it until national 
news media, helicopters were landing in the bean fields, asking 
what we thought about it.
    So that's why it's been an important issue for us to get 
involved in and start talking with State, local units of 
government to be a part of the people at the table, sitting 
down, making the decisions to decide if something does happen, 
some disaster, what do we need to do? Because now that we have 
gaming, our responsibility has increased a hundred fold, 
because you're talking just on that little island alone, the 
power plant has 400 employees. We have a little under 400 
tribal members living there. We have over 1,600 employees and 
at any given day of the week, we could have anywhere from 4,000 
to 10,000 people at our facility.
    So this is a major concern, and you also have to 
understand, in order to get to our reservation, there's only 
way on and off. And you have to cross the railroad tracks. In a 
24-hour period, there are 40 trains that go through those 
railroad tracks. At any given day and time, sometimes those 
trains stop, they come to a complete stop, and they stop there 
anywhere from 5 minutes to a one-half hour. We had a couple 
incidents where we needed an ambulance from the nearby city of 
Red Wing. They got down to our tribal member's home who was 
having a heart attack. When they got there and they were ready 
to leave the island, they couldn't because a train had stopped. 
So there was no way on and off the island.
    So this was a major concern, what if an accident happened 
and that scenario was there? Nobody would be able to get off 
the island. So we spent a lot of time, dollars and resources 
sitting down with State government officials to come up with an 
emergency preparedness. We've been involved with this now for 
the last 3 or 4 years where we do mock drills and we set 
command posts in St. Paul, on the reservation, and the nearby 
towns. But it takes a lot of work, and it's a lot of hard work 
to work with the different jurisdictions.
    I think with this homeland security, even though tribes 
weren't included like the previous speakers before me, it's not 
too late. We've still got time to get involved. It's very 
important. I think that's why, when I first found out that the 
tribes weren't mentioned in this bill, because we were 
monitoring this when we heard it was coming out a little under 
1 year ago, every legislator that I came out here to visit, I 
always mentioned it to them about this bill. I'm glad to see 
that we're finally talking about it as tribal leaders, because 
it's always been a concern on my mind.
    But like I said, it's not too late. Hopefully we can get 
something done. But you have to remember, even if we get this 
approved and tribes are included, we've still got to get the 
Federal funding dollars. That's the other step. And it's 
important we do it this year also.
    So the little amount of time we have, we have a lot of work 
ahead of us. I think as Indian people, we're very strong and 
we're pretty vocal and we get out here and we put our minds to 
it. I'm glad to see a lot of tribal leaders out here today that 
are taking an interest in this. Because there are all different 
facets of homeland security. Ours just happens to be a nuclear 
powerplant. Other people have borders. Other people have dams 
on their reservations.
    But overall, it's all important, I think, as Indian people, 
Mother Earth is always sacred to all of us. It's up to us to 
take responsibility and be active and be a part and work 
together with the different jurisdictions to find solutions and 
a common ground so we can move on and keep protecting Mother 
Earth for the generations that aren't here yet.
    So I'm going to say about that much, and I'll be on 
tomorrow speaking also. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Audrey.
    Our next speaker is Roland Johnson, who is the Governor of 
the Laguna Pueblo, located in Laguna, NM. It's kind of an 
interesting segue, it wasn't too long ago that the bulk of the 
uranium being mined in this country was being mined in Indian 
country, and the Laguna Pueblo was one of the areas that a 
considerable amount of uranium was being mined. They've had to 
deal with that ever since then in terms of the reclamation.
    So at this time, Roland.
    Mr. Johnson. Thank you, Dick. Good afternoon.


    Mr. Johnson. Normally when I come to Washington this time 
of the year, I'm complaining about the heat and the humidity. 
But today is was downright cold in the room, wasn't it?
    I'd like to begin my presentation by giving you a brief 
overview of some of the activities that have taken place at the 
State level. I think most of the tribes in the State of New 
Mexico are quite encouraged by the current administration, the 
State administration. As some of you are probably aware, former 
ambassador, Congressman, jack of all trades Bill Richardson was 
elected Governor of the State of New Mexico last year, and he 
took office on January 1. Just right after he took office, 
Governor Richardson convened a summit of all tribal leadership. 
We were encouraged by the fact that at that particular meeting 
we signed an agreement, which is basically a protocol statement 
that prescribes the manner in which the State and the tribes 
will come together to address issues of concern to either the 
State or the tribes.
    Also since coming to office, the Governor has appointed a 
number of Native Americans to key positions in his cabinet. One 
of the things he did was sign an executive order which 
basically elevated what used to be the Office of Indian Affairs 
to the Department of Indian Affairs, and appointed one of our 
fellow Pueblo members as the secretary of that particular 
department, Bernie Teba, who used to work for the Northern 
Pueblos Enterprises, now the secretary of the Department of 
Indian Affairs.
    Also by Executive order the Governor created the Office of 
Homeland Security, which has become the lead agency to 
coordinate Statewide homeland security and emergency 
preparedness efforts. The activities of the Department of 
Public Safety and the Department of Health are coordinated by 
the Office of Homeland Security. The Department of Indian 
Affairs received a contract not too long ago from the 
Department of Health to conduct a community based assessment on 
emergency preparedness in all the Native American communities 
in the State. I believe this is probably a first on a national 
basis of an initiative that has been undertaken by the State to 
assess the status of preparedness on the part of Native 
American communities. We look forward to seeing the results of 
that report and the implementation of recommendations that 
we're sure will come from that particular assessment.
    The Department of Indian Affairs has also been designated 
by the Director of the Homeland Security Office to be the point 
of contact for all homeland security and emergency preparedness 
efforts for tribal communities. So we have one common point of 
contact, which we think is good. Secretary Teba has also been 
appointed to the New Mexico Homeland Security Advisory Council, 
as well as to the Public Health, Emergency Preparedness and 
Response Advisory Council. There has also been a letter of 
agreement signed to formalize funding allocations from the 
United States Department of Homeland Security Domestic 
Preparedness grant office. It's the Department of Indian 
Affairs which is responsible for coordinating the distribution 
of these funds. The Governor has directed that a certain 
percentage of the funds that have been allocated to the State 
be reserved for assistance to Native American communities 
within the State.
    As Dr. Vanderwagen indicated this morning, the State has 
also established and is now funding a full time emergency 
medical services coordinator, a tribal coordinator, that is. So 
we think that's a good move.
    That, I think, covers pretty much what's happening at the 
State level. Obviously within our own respective communities, 
we have concerns and challenges that are quite similar to those 
that have already been enunciated by the tribal representatives 
before me. The case with the Pueblo of Laguna is that, our 
properties are situated in western New Mexico. We are, we 
consider ourselves to be extremely vulnerable to perhaps 
attacks of terrorism and perhaps other incidents that could 
test our state of preparedness, and have tested our state of 
preparedness in fact.
    Across our reservation runs Interstate Highway 40. We have 
the Burlington Northern and Santa Fe Railroad which traverses 
our properties as well. We have two high pressure natural gas 
interstate transportation lines that cross our properties as 
well. We're in fairly close proximity to Albuquerque and Los 
Alamos, both of which house or accommodate military and defense 
type installations, national laboratories at Los Alamos, Sandia 
Laboratories in Albuquerque, and of course, the White Sands 
Missile Range in the southern part of the State, and the waste 
isolation pilot project is located in the southern part of the 
    The WIPP site is the repository for a lot of nuclear waste 
being shipped from places in Nevada and other parts of the 
country, including within the State itself, from the labs at 
Los Alamos. Interstate Highway 40 happens to be the route over 
which much of the nuclear waste is being transported to the 
WHIP site from Nevada. So it's of tremendous concern to us.
    At Laguna approximately two months ago we had an incident 
occur that really tested our state of preparedness to react to 
situations of this nature. As I mentioned, Burlington Northern 
Santa Fe has its tracks across 40 miles of our property. And on 
Memorial Day, just this past Memorial Day, around 4:15 in the 
afternoon, we had a railroad derailment, in which 11 cars of an 
86 car train jumped the tracks. It was not immediately known, 
but it was suspected that the box cars were carrying hazardous 
materials. Because of the lateness of the hour, we were 
successful in getting many of our own programs to respond, our 
emergency medical services activity, our fire department, our 
police department as well as our emergency preparedness 
response team to respond to the situation. But there was not 
enough time to really determine exactly what was on board the 
    As a result of it, we had to evacuate about 500 people from 
the homes which were located in fairly close proximity to the 
scene of the incident. Some of the families were able to return 
home after 2 o'clock in the morning and others had to stay in 
the emergency shelters until around 2 o'clock or 3 o'clock the 
following afternoon. But the damage to the railroad tracks was 
of such magnitude that it stopped trains in both directions.
    So it was conceivable that we could also have encountered a 
situation similar to what President Bennett described, where 
because of the stoppage of trains at a railroad crossing, we 
would not have been able to gain access to some portions of our 
community. Fortunately, that did not occur in this particular 
instance. But what this incident did was that it really called 
to our attention how inefficient or how we're lacking in terms 
of being truly prepared to respond to an emergency situation. 
We had the assistance of some of the State organizations and 
agencies, but even they too were somewhat limited in terms of 
what they could do.
    So we've had the experience of realizing how much of an 
impact an incident, whether of the nature that I described or 
whether it was by act of terrorism, what impact it could have 
on a community. So we're looking forward to being able to 
present our story to the committee tomorrow. We will present 
testimony. We have offered some suggestions for modifying what 
has been proposed in the way of amendments, so that a situation 
that we have in New Mexico can be addressed, and it's a 
situation that has to do with, or that results from a Supreme 
Court decision that has an impact, that has impacted the status 
of lands over which the railroad traverses.
    As a result of that, it used to be that the BNSF would pay 
a possessory interest tax that was imposed by Pueblo. Now 
because of the recent Supreme Court decision and other court 
cases that have come about, BNSF has refused to pay the tax any 
further. We think that's unfortunate, because we are dependent 
upon the resources that we receive from such a tax to help 
maintain a lot of the services that we have at Pueblo, 
including our police services, emergency medical services and 
the operations of our fire department. We think that by 
broadening the definition of Indian country as it's described 
in the law and the regulations that maybe that would correct 
the situation.
    I know that the other tribes are also, other tribes in the 
State are also concerned about the impact of recent court 
cases, and know the northern governors are working collectively 
to try to find ways to resolve that situation. I'd like to at 
this time call on James Rivera, with the Pueblo Pojoaque to 
briefly describe the situation that impacts some of the 
northern pueblos, but it impacts Laguna as well, because it's a 
situation that does involve the status of Indian lands.
    Thank you very much for your attention. I appreciate it.
    Mr. Rivera. Thank you, Governor Johnson. While they're 
bringing that easel over here, I'd like to recognize former 
Governor Perry Martinez, former Governor Marvin Hideta, former 
Governor Terry Aguilar, and Governor Salizar from San Juan. 
They're part of the Eight Northern Pueblos.


    Mr. Rivera. What I'd like to do is explain the Indian 
country in New Mexico, where Los Alamos is and where the WHIP 
site goes through. This green area here is all Santa Fe 
National Forest. This area right here is Los Alamos, which 
everybody knows, first it was an atomic laboratory, now it's a 
nuclear laboratory.
    Through here, this is State Road 502, which runs through 
the Pueblo Santa Ildefonso, which I believe is the only Pueblo 
right now that butts up with Department of Energy land. You can 
basically just walk across. There's really no boundary set or 
fence up, but you can just literally walk across.
    Here is Pojaque Pueblo. In between this area and here, you 
have several communities, you have a high school and elementary 
and a lot of home front, right on this highway here, which 
comes through Powhakee and then down through to Sukee and on 
into Santa Fe. But if you look at the surrounding areas here, 
the first communities that would be impacted if there was an 
act of terrorism or a malicious act, the first communities to 
be affected would be tribal communities. The WHIP route comes 
from Los Alamos down on through Santa Fe and through that area.
    But one of the things, I just wanted to kind of briefly 
just give you guys and overview of what the location is and how 
vulnerable the tribes could be in New Mexico, the northern part 
of New Mexico. As we all know, terrorism is a situation where 
these guys, they hit anywhere, any time, without any regard. 
They're death missions. We've got to continuously remind our 
Congressmen and Congresswomen that this is a war on terrorism, 
and that the United States motto during war is, leave no man 
behind. We've got to continuously tell them that as tribal 
leaders, because we are part of this war on terrorism. We have 
facilities that are located in strategic areas where we're all 
vulnerable, or many tribes are vulnerable to an attack or a 
malicious act that could have a huge impact on our tribal 
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you.
    The next speaker is Darrell Hillaire, who is the chairman 
of the Lummi Nation in Washington State, located near 
Bellingham, not that far from the Canadian border. So at this 
time, Darrell.
    Mr. Hillaire. Thanks, Dick. Thanks to each and every one of 
you for being here to talk about this most serious issue.


    Mr. Hillaire. On behalf of the Affiliated Tribes of 
Northwest Indians, one of the Nation's oldest and largest 
regional Indian organizations, which is celebrating its 50th 
anniversary, and has a membership of over 50 federally 
recognized Indian tribes that spans Alaska, Washington, Idaho, 
Oregon, Montana, and California. I'd like to present the 
following regional perspective, as well as Lummi specific views 
on these homeland security challenges. I'm really just 
reiterating some of the views that were presented earlier by 
Jamestown S'Kallam, Colville, Nez Perce and Umatilla and 
    Our perspective is, the first perspective and context that 
we should look at this is that, it's not a matter of if there's 
going to be another terrorist attack but when. And we need to 
think that way until victory has been declared on this war on 
terrorism. I also think we're hearing today and we feel this 
way at Lummi that we've answered a lot of the internal 
questions in providing for the health and safety of our people. 
But there has not been a good external plan on how we make 
these connections with outside governments and especially the 
State and Federal Governments. What that says is that we're 
prepared to react but we're not prepared to prevent these acts 
of terrorism.
    Then I think the third context is that yes, this is a great 
opportunity for Indian tribes with S. 578 to have in bold face 
lettering recognition of Indian tribes and its inherent tribal 
sovereignty. We see that as an opportunity.
    The regional overview is yes, the AT&I has compromised the 
Washington, Oregon, and Idaho as well as northern California, 
western Montana and Alaska. The geographical landscape of the 
northwest region covers a broad area, such as the Pacific 
Ocean, the Bitterroot Mountains, the San Juan Islands, the 
Columbia River, the Cascade Mountain Range, and the Polos. The 
size and scope of these 50 federally recognized tribes are 
varied in size from 10,000 to 300. Reservation landholdings 
within the northwest region are diverse, from border coastline 
frontage to mountains to rivers and timber.
    The I-5 corridor extends through a lot of our reservations, 
and we're close to a lot of metropolitan areas, such as 
Portland, Tacoma, Seattle, and Vancouver. Inland there are 
major cites that include Yakima, Spokane, and Boise.
    For Lummi, we're located 12 miles from the United States-
Canada border. We're the third largest tribe in the State of 
Washington that has a population of over 5,000 tribal members. 
Traditionally, Lummi derives its language, customs and cultural 
practices from the Koosalish people. That's our larger family. 
When we think about it, as Indian people, we've had homeland 
security since time immemorial. In our language, homeland is 
defined by the word skalatsis. Within that word comes inherent 
rights, and I was so glad to hear the word responsibilities 
that go along with the protection of those rights.
    What threatens us today? We're the Affiliated Tribes in the 
Pacific Northwest Region, those threats are significant. 
Numerous military installations exist in the Pacific Northwest. 
In the Puget Sound area, there's Fort Lewis Army Base, McCord 
Air Force Base, the Bremerton Naval Ship Yard, the Banger 
Nuclear Submarine base, the Woodbee Naval Air Station, and 
Everett Naval Port. Inland there also exists Fairchild Air 
Force Base, Yakima Firing Range, and the Pendleton Army Weapons 
Depot. This is not even talking about the installations in 
    Numerous nuclear sites and oil refineries, the Hanford 
nuclear site, which is directly on the Columbia River and is 
between the aboriginal homelands of the Yakima, Nez Perce, 
Colville, and Umatilla Tribes. Smaller sites, such as the 
Satsup nuclear site, pose potential danger as well. Close to 
Lummi, Squanamish, Upper Skaget, and Nooksak, there are four 
oil refineries.
    As was stated earlier by Councilman John Stenzgar, the 
threat to the dams in our area, not only within the Columbia 
River system but also the Lower Elwa. We have the Columbia 
River and we have the Snake River. On those dams are the Grand 
Cooley Dam, the Bonneville Dam, and the Lower Elowa Dam on the 
Olympic Peninsula area.
    What's not to be overlooked is that a number of tribes are 
located on the coastline and near U.S. borders. Tribes such as 
the Quinault, Quilute, Ho, and Macaw Reservations exist 
directly on the coastline of the Pacific Ocean. Within the 
Puget Sound region, places like Lummi are located directly on 
the coastline, within the northern San Juan Islands, with 
direct point of entry and access to Canada. I think this is 
really important to know, because our tribe and a lot of tribes 
that are located along the border are very active in practicing 
their culture and traditions, living out their lives with 
fishing or hunting or gathering.
    Today if you read the USA Today, in those short blurbs that 
they have on what's going on in the different States, you'll 
recognize that the Tulalip Tribe is mentioned there. And there 
are over 60 canoes there today representing all of the tribes 
up and down the coast of Washington and Canada, clear up to 
Belacula in northern Canada. They are celebrating culture and 
tradition. So this is just a small example of how active we are 
in recognizing that our homelands extend beyond this border 
that's agreed to between the United States and Canadian 
    For us, it's really important to be a part of homeland 
security, because we've decided to do something about a problem 
that is very important to us. It's the top priority within our 
community. And that's the mobilization against drugs. Twelve 
miles from our community is the Canadian border. On a regular 
basis, for the last 1\1/2\ years, 33 arrests have been made for 
the trafficking of drugs across that border that directly 
involved our tribal members. That pipeline extends into the 
city of Vancouver and to our sisters and brothers in other 
Koosalish Nations in Canada. We need to recognize that problem 
and make sure that it's acknowledged within these efforts. It 
will only make us stronger.
    Lummi, as well as a lot of our tribes, are located in 
remote locations within rural areas. Indian reservations within 
the northwest region contain a large number of uninhabited 
areas that become infiltrated by drug smugglers, terrorists, 
and illegal aliens. I don't take this lightly, because the 
snipers that terrorized this town, the young fellow that was 
actually pulling the trigger went to school with my son and 
actually played basketball with him. So it becomes very real 
for me that that could begin near our reservation. Not only 
these snipers, but there was also a terrorist that was arrested 
on his way to Los Angeles through our Canadian borders, just 
very recently, in the last 2 or 3 years these things are 
    The lack of proper funding for tribal law enforcement led 
to these negative safe havens being created. We see that as 
fishermen, when we're out on the waters, the amount of activity 
that goes on there. High speed boats everywhere. People coming 
across the borders undetected. I think we can help with the way 
we know these waters and these place names that are attached to 
hundreds of islands located near the border.
    Also, the lack of tribal jurisdiction in intergovernmental 
agreements has contributed to these security challenges. So 
many of our tribes have begun to develop emergency response 
capacity and preparedness. This is accomplished through self-
governance and self-determination. I know our tribe has 
completed our ERP, and I know Nez Perce is doing the same. But 
like other regional challenges, the implementation and 
development of the emergency response plans are minimal, based 
on the lack of funding or access to funds under the Homeland 
Security Act. So cooperation, coordination and funding, they 
all go hand in hand.
    So we'd like to be involved, and we try to be involved 
locally. But without that fundamental acknowledgement of the 
tribal governments on the same level as the State and the 
Federal Government, then this won't be acknowledged, these 
efforts won't be acknowledged. So we need to have that. That's 
why we support this amendment, S. 578, and section 13 and what 
it states in affirming and declares inherent tribal 
sovereignty. We encourage that funding comes forward. Yes, 
we're prepared to not only react but to help prevent. So we can 
send a message that not in our homeland, not on our 
reservations, will these acts happen.
    So that's our role, that's our job. And we want to join 
this fight. I really need to emphasize that I do get in line 
with the respected elder from Alaska that we need to stand 
together on this issue. Operation Liberty Shield, as I 
understand it, is what this has been named. And there's a 
purpose for that. I think we forget too soon those that have 
lost their lives not only at the Twin Towers, but in 
Shanksville and at the Pentagon. We're not going to forget. 
We're going to continue efforts to heal from this tragedy, but 
at the same time prepare ourselves as strong warriors like we 
all know we are, and work on this together with our friends 
within Congress, with our local partnerships to make this 
    [Greeting given in native tongue.]
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Darrell.
    The next speaker is a council member from the Fort Peck 
Reservation in Montana, A.T. Stafne. A.T.?
    Mr. Stafne. Thank you.

                      RESERVATION, MONTANA

    Mr. Stafne. You'll note, as Dick stated, I'm A.T. Stafne, 
I'm not on the regular program. I'm filling in for my chairman. 
I'm a tribal councilman from Fort Peck. First of all, let me 
state that it is a great honor for me to stand in front of such 
a distinguished group of tribal people and their 
representatives. Thank you for allowing me to be up here.
    I'm from the Fort Peck Reservation, that's in northeast 
Montana. We're about 40 miles from the Canadian border. Our 
reservation runs about 90 miles width and about 50 miles from 
north to south. The southern boundary is the Missouri River. I 
think we could have had our boundary, our northern boundary, be 
the Canadian line. Because when they established our 
reservation, they took one old gentleman and told him to ride 
north. And as far as you can ride in 1 day, that will be your 
northern border. I think he had a slow horse. [Laughter.]
    Along our reservation we have a major highway, Highway 
Number 2. As the gentleman from New Mexico stated, we also have 
90 miles of Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad traveling 
through our reservation.
    You haven't lost the fight, New Mexico. Fort Peck is still 
fighting. We're still in the Ninth Circuit and it's been 
remanded back to the lower court. We're fighting that tax case 
    On the Missouri River, on our western boundary, there's a 
large dam, Fort Peck Dam. At one time it was the largest, so 
they tell us, earth-filled dam in the world. Now they tell us 
it is the second largest. In any case, it is one of the larger 
dams. It has a hydroelectric powerplant, we have high voltage 
power lines going through our reservation. We have gas and oil 
lines going through our reservation, carrying oil down from 
Canada to the United States. We have gas and oil wells on our 
    One thing I would like to say on homeland security. I don't 
think that's anything new. I was a little fellow during World 
War II, and I was raised by my grandma and grandpa. They were 
always afraid of the Japanese coming over and bombing that dam. 
In fact, they used to have blackouts along the dam there, and 
since we didn't live too far, we lived in a little, just a 
little log house with Grandma and Grandpa, and we didn't have 
electricity, of course. All we had were kerosene lamps. But at 
night time, when they lit the lamps, they'd say, line those 
windows, grandson, we don't want those Japanese, we don't want 
to show them the way to that dam. That was their homeland 
security. We're still dealing with it, we still have the same 
    I brought a resolution from our State of Montana. In a 
roundabout way, I think the State of Montana is supporting this 
S. 578. I'd like to read a letter that was sent to us by Bob 
Brown, the Secretary of State in Montana. It's dated April 17, 
2003. It's addressed to the Fort Peck Tribal Council.
    It says:

    On behalf of the State of Montana, it is my honor and duty 
to send to you the attached copy of S.J. Res. 24 for your 
information. S.J. Res. 24 is requesting the U.S. Congress to 
authorize a feasibility study and demonstration project to 
consider transferring Federal funds allocated to the State of 
Montana for distribution to Montana's American Indians as a 
means of providing benefits to support tribal programs directly 
to Montana's federally recognized tribal governments in the 
form of direct payments instead of transferring funds through a 
State agency. On behalf of the president of the Senate, the 
speaker of the House and all the members of these esteemed 
bodies, I thank you for your consideration of this resolution. 
sincerely, Bob Brown, Secretary of State.

    I certainly don't agree with them asking for a feasibility 
study, but I think in a roundabout way, this is their way of 
saying, yes, we agree, the money should go directly to the 
tribes. All of Montana, all the State senators and house of 
representatives joined in signing this resolution, as did all 
our tribes in Montana.
    Again, thank you for allowing me to be up here.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, A.T.
    The next speaker is Frank Gavigan, who is the police 
commander for the Mohegan Tribe. A number of you in the room 
have been up there in terms of looking at those two gaming 
operations in Connecticut. On any given weekend they probably 
have anywhere from 100,000 to 125,000 people in both Foxwoods 
and Mohegan Sun in a 24 hour period. So it's just another kind 
of dimension that requires there be more cooperation.
    So at this time, Frank.
    Mr. Gavigan. Thank you very much, Dick.


    Mr. Gavigan. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I want 
to thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak to you 
today. I'm here to give you the regional perspective on the 
eastern region, which is a tremendous land mass with a whole 
bunch of varied problems from tribe to tribe. There are 23 
tribes in the USET conference, I believe, and we all have 
varying degrees of cooperation with the States. From the 
Passamaquoddy in Maine to the Miccosukee down in Florida, you 
get all kinds of flavors within that realm.
    I'm going to concentrate mostly on the region I know best, 
which is the New England States. Passamaquoddy, as you are all 
aware, shares a border with Canada. They have their issues up 
there with problems, cross-border problems which were 
exacerbated recently by the Federal Government when they did a 
survey to locate the border. They did a clear-cut path right 
along the edge of the border approximately 8-to-10 feet wide, 
leading to major population centers. I guess that was to aid 
people moving across the border, I'm not quite sure why.
    So issues like this, where we have a cooperative effort or 
a lack of cooperation among the various Federal, State, local, 
and tribal governments, can lead us into problems. That's what 
we're here hopefully to try and avoid.
    In Connecticut, where I'm most familiar, we have an 
unusually good working relationship with the State. The State 
has recognized that both federally recognized tribes that have 
gaming operations in operation as a dynamic and very important 
financial asset to the State. As a result of that, they've gone 
out of their way, at least the Homeland Security department has 
gone out of its way to include us in the planning and 
implementation stages of the preparations that Connecticut is 
    As a result of the cooperation between the tribes and the 
State, we've been allocated a hazardous materials trailer, 
along with the Mashantuckets. Two other trailers have been 
located in eastern Connecticut, one in New London and one in 
Norwich. And all those teams have cooperated to the point where 
they have a regional response team. If anyone has a problem, 
any one of the four trailers can be activated and will draw 
manpower from all the operations concerned.
    We have, as Dick was explaining, a tremendous population, 
daily population. We have a very small land base, under 500 
acres. There are about 1,600 tribal members in the Mohegan 
Tribe, located in Connecticut. As a result of that, the State 
of Connecticut had to come up with an alteration of the formula 
used to compute area population. We have a very small resident 
population on the reservation, only about 12 or 14 people. But 
as Dick mentioned, we do have upwards of 40,000 people a day 
that we count as population, our patrons and our employees. So 
in order to give the tribes greater input and greater entree 
into the homeland security measures, the State devised an 
alternative formula to determine population so that we would 
fit into the profiles and the models being used.
    Running an operation the size that we do entails quite a 
bit as far as trying to maintain security. Some of the 
initiatives that we've instituted require all vehicles being 
brought in the validated areas located under the casino go 
through a scrutiny, both under carriage and in the trunk area 
and the passenger compartment area, basically a visual 
scrutiny, to determine anything of an unusual nature. We, as 
everyone knows, have deliveries daily from various vendors. 
Before a vehicle can enter into the back of house area or onto 
a loading area, it's first taken to a staging area where it's 
examined by members of my outside security department to ensure 
that it's not bringing anything of a dangerous nature in. They 
are given a pass. The pass has a number on it, we put our own 
seal on the back end of the truck to make sure the truck isn't 
tampered with between the staging area and the loading dock 
area. And they have to pass through one more checkpoint before 
they're allowed into the back of house areas.
    We have established that security checkpoint so not only 
those trucks are stopped but any vehicle entering or attempting 
to enter the back of house area will be stopped, the driver 
questioned and the vehicle examined. To enter the casino, if 
you're carrying a package or baggage, you will be asked to 
submit that to visual examination by our security staff. At our 
arena events, we have an arena which will house up to a maximum 
of approximately 10,000 people, at the arena events we have 
continued to insist on patron pat-downs before entrance into 
the casino, or rather into the arena, prior to the event. This 
has been, my understanding is that most of the venues have 
ceased doing this. We continue it. And for the most part, our 
patrons don't seem to mind it. They actually applaud our 
efforts at trying to keep the peace inside the arena.
    We've taken a proactive role in cooperation with both State 
and Federal authorities. Anytime we have a high profile event, 
it's not unusual to see a State bomb dog swing through the 
arena, or have the FBI send a representative down to do a 
security assessment.
    As part of the continuing cooperation with the State, my 
boss, Joe Lavin, who was supposed to speak to you today, as a 
member of the steering committee for the Department of Homeland 
Security for the State, and an active member in a number of 
other subcommittees under that umbrella, our fire chief, Floyd 
Chaney, is a member and one of the planners of the regional 
hazardous materials response team, and is very active in that 
role. I participate through the Connecticut Chiefs of Police 
Association in a statewide emergency communications committee, 
which is working to facilitate the interoperability of radio 
communication throughout the law enforcement community in the 
    We expect that we will be receiving our hazmat response 
trailer some time either the end of this month or the beginning 
of next. We should be receiving the vehicle that will allow us 
to tow that at some later date. At the present time, we have to 
make do with an F-350 that we traded off from one of the other 
fleet operations.
    I've recently returned, as a matter of fact, I'm on my 
traveling cycle, I was up at EMI, which had been mentioned 
earlier today, at the Emmittsburg, Maryland National Fire 
Academy, and participated in training sessions put on by FEMA 
with members of police and fire departments from throughout the 
country. Next week we will also be participating in Operation 
Yankee Phase Two, which will be held in Newport, Rhode Island, 
which is another exercise put on by FEMA to try and regionalize 
the concept of exercising.
    Our main concerns in the eastern region, at least in the 
New England area, is that the region itself is very densely 
populated and, at least in my neighborhood, is an extremely 
target-rich environment. Within 15 miles of the reservation, we 
have a nuclear power plant, Phizer Chemical, Dow Chemical, 
Electric Boat, where our submarines used to be made, a regional 
airport, the U.S. submarine base, and a number of 
communications facilities which everybody says don't exist.
    Without the regional concept that is now going on within 
the State of Connecticut, any incident occurring at any one of 
those locations would quickly get out of control and would pose 
a serious impact to all of the communities located in that 
area. That includes three tribal communities. Those tribal 
communities are working hand in hand with the State and Federal 
authorities to assure that we can meet the demands placed on 
us, should an incident occur there.
    It is the firm belief of everyone in the Mohegan Tribal 
Government and the State of Connecticut that tribal governments 
must be allowed to have input into the planning process at both 
the State and Federal levels for all homeland security 
initiatives. Now as perhaps no other time in our history is the 
time for all levels of government, Federal, State, tribal and 
municipal, to come together, work as equals for the common good 
and the protection of the homeland we all share. Thank you very 
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Frank.
    This morning, Larry Parkinson from Interior briefly 
commented on the St. Regis Mohawk Reservation. At this time, 
we're fortunate to have Andrew Thomas, who is the chief of 
police up there at St. Regis. At this time, Andrew, would you 
like to come and offer your thoughts about some of the border 
issues as well, and other concerns you may have, or the tribe 
may have? He's accompanied by Rita Swamp, who is one of the 
sub-chiefs there are Akwesasne.

                    STATEMENT OF RITA SWAMP

    Ms. Swamp. Good afternoon. You'll be happy to know that I'm 
a woman of few words.
    St. Regis was mentioned several times this morning. I'd 
like to let you know that we were not invited. Some of you may 
not be aware of the significance of our location in upper New 
York State. We have two bridges, four or five rivers, including 
the mighty St. Lawrence River, which bypasses the American 
portion of the reservation and the Canadian portion of the 
    It's really unfortunate that New York City is located in 
New York, since per capita payments end there. The Homeland 
Security Act and program doesn't provide any money to our 
tribe. We would very much like to be in the realm of planning 
for homeland security, since our police force is made up of 15 
to 20 officers. We are very capable of maintaining our northern 
door. And we do work, our police do work in collaboration with 
our CMP, the IBET team and others which Andrew will get into.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Thomas. Thank you, Dick, for allowing us to speak.


    Mr. Thomas. As Rita was saying, the job of the St. Regis 
Mohawk tribal police department has been transformed. Our role 
used to be community policing. Now we've taken on the task of 
securing the northern border at Akwesasne. In that effort, we 
have joined forces with our local agencies, Federal, State, 
Canadian federal agencies and Canadian provincial agencies and 
formed the Central St. Lawrence Valley IBET, the integrated 
border enforcement team at Massena, New York and Cornwall, 
Ontario region.
    We do have a counterpart, another Mohawk police department, 
that works on the Canadian portion of Akwesasne. As was 
mentioned earlier by Mr. Parkinson, our reservation straddles 
the border. So we do have duplicate services. The Canadian 
government has been very generous with the Akwesasne Mohawk 
police department, and their annual approved budget easily 
surpasses ours at least five times in amount. They have also 
received recent increases to budgets in light of the September 
11 incident.
    We discussed participation with our local agencies and 
continue in that vein. We have done that with the State 
agencies. I participate in, I am a committee member for the 
counterterrorism task force organized within the tri-county 
area in northern New York State. We also have a gaming compact 
with New York State. We have a very good working relationship 
with New York State. But when it comes down to allocations of 
homeland security dollars, we get absolutely zero from New York 
State. So the Senate bill that's proposed, I would strongly 
endorse if it means some financial assistance directly sent to 
the tribes.
    I hear a few nations are concerned about the sovereignty 
aspect of the bill. To me, I'd like to emphasize the financial 
aspect of the bill. Because our sovereignty is inherent. And 
it's not something that can be added as an amendment to a bill. 
It's there. It's never going to be taken. We need to focus on 
the financial aspect of this bill.
    I guess with that, that's all.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Rita and Andrew.
    We've got five more speakers listed, I'm sure there may be 
others in the room here. Tim Sanders, who's been very patient, 
he's with the Office of Emergency Management at Gila River, 
Tim, why don't you work your way toward the front of the room. 
And I've got Chairman Wallace Coffey from the Comanche Nation, 
Chairman Harold Frazier from the Cheyenne River Sioux 
Reservation, Chuck Matheson, who's a council member from the 
Coeur d'Alene Tribe, and Dave Nez, from Navajo, who briefly 
spoke this morning but will be commenting on behalf of 
President Shirley from the Navajo Nation.
    So at this time, Tim.
    Mr. Sanders. Thank you. I'd like to thank the committee for 
sponsoring this hearing, and the others who were involved in 
putting this together. I think it's important.


    Mr. Sanders. Gila River Indian Community supports S. 578 as 
a good first step in improving government to government 
relationships in the homeland security and emergency management 
arena. But there again, it's only a first step. There are other 
things that we need to keep pursuing. One I think was mentioned 
earlier this morning, S. 1245. That's where the money's at. 
That's where we have to focus some of our efforts to make sure 
that the proper language is in that bill and that he funding is 
available to tribes.
    What I wanted to talk about are some of the implementation 
issues for homeland security that we've realized in Arizona. 
Some of the other States probably experienced the same things. 
By accident, we got a copy of the National Incident Management 
System that's being proposed to be implemented, kind of a chain 
of command for terrorist events and other events that might 
take place in the country. There again, that particular plan is 
silent on tribal governments. There was evidently no 
consultation with tribal governments, as this process was 
developed. It's based on the incident command system moving 
into a unified command structure in the event of an incident.
    In Indian country, there's various levels of expertise and 
experience with incident command system. I think if the 
Department of Homeland Security is serious about implementing 
this program, they need to make sure that the tribes are 
provided with funding and technical assistance to build that 
incident command structure, incident command experience within 
the response agencies and tribal government.
    It's going to call for the incorporation and the 
integration of law enforcement, emergency medical services, 
emergency management, transportation, public works, public 
health. All these are going to be players in that incident 
command structure. And there again, the capability is really 
lacking in Indian country. I think it's incumbent upon BHS if 
they're serious about implementing this that they do provide 
the tribes the resources to get this system in place.
    The other issue that they're coming out with is a new 
national response plan. I suppose that this is going to replace 
the existing Federal response plan, which was structured around 
emergency management support functions and things like that. 
Again, the national response plan is silent on tribal 
governments. Guess what? No consultation as they were 
developing this issue as well.
    So I think there again, they should consult and not insult 
by showing the tribes something, here's something we're going 
to implement and you really have no choice but to fall in line 
with this. I think they should take that time up front to 
consult with the tribes, figure out how they can best integrate 
the tribes into this system. Because with S. 578 or not, 
they're going to be implementing the Homeland Security Act. So 
there are things they need to do to help the tribes get 
integrated into that system and move forward.
    One thing I observed while reading the new national 
response plan is the emphasis is kind of moving away from an 
all hazards approach and going more and more into law 
enforcement and surveillance, issues like that. I think it's 
important that the Department of Homeland Security realize that 
an all hazards approach is perhaps the best approach to 
emergency management and homeland security. If we can be 
prepared for fires, floods, monsoons, storms, things like that, 
then we can be prepared for terrorist issues as well.
    Another implementation issue that I see is with 
communications. We heard Richard talk about some of the 
communications efforts that took place at Tohono O'Odham this 
morning. At Gila River, for example, our council allocated a 
pretty good chunk of money towards building our communications 
infrastructure. The problem we ran into was getting the Federal 
frequencies, getting the licenses and things we needed to 
attach to that system in order to communicate. We really had to 
battle the metropolitan areas to become part of their system. 
They didn't seem to realize that if we enhanced our capability 
that it would enhance that regional capability.
    So I think DHS has a role to play there in making sure that 
the localities, local governments, State governments, county 
governments, understand that in order to have a real regional 
capability that they need to enhance that capability at the 
tribal level and make sure those resources are integrated.
    Transportation, we've heard a little bit about the 
transportation issues, nuclear waste, hazards and materials up 
and down the interstates, all day long. There's been 
traditionally a lack of support for the tribes for planning, 
training, exercises for these type of events. I think as part 
of the implementation for the Homeland Security Act again those 
resources and technical assistance need to be applied to the 
    Our law enforcement, we've heard several excellent speakers 
talk about the law enforcement issues today, so I won't spend a 
lot of time on those. One thing I will say at Gila River, we've 
worked really hard with the State Department of Public Safety 
to cross-deputize some of their officers and all the officers 
at Gila River are post-certified. We've gone a long way toward 
solving some of those jurisdictional issues as far as law 
enforcement goes.
    We also heard some talk about mutual aid agreements, 
memoranda of understanding and agreement, things like that. 
Sometimes it's hard for tribes to work these agreements out 
with their neighboring jurisdictions with other entities. I 
think DHS with the recognition of tribal governments, tribal 
governments do exist and they are players in this, I think that 
will go a long way to help the counties and States and other 
local governments understand that tribal governments are 
players, that they do have expertise and resource and that it's 
worthwhile to enter into some discussions about mutual aid 
agreements, memoranda of understanding, things like that. At 
the end, I think this will lead to better cooperation, 
communication and coordination during emergency events and even 
for planning, training and exercising.
    Another implementation issue, I think we've all probably 
had some experience with this, some better experience than 
others, but the Office of Domestic Preparedness comes down with 
the equipment grants each year. I think they're in the third 
go-around this year. In Arizona, Arizona chose to have only 
their counties be a reporting jurisdiction to do the threat 
assessment, risk assessment, needs assessment and report that 
to the State. Well, they invited the tribes to come and sit at 
the table. But if the reservation was stretched across two 
counties, we had to go with one county and kind of artificially 
divide our risk and our threats and our needs and kind of 
figure out which way to go. We could submit part of it to one 
county, part of it to another county.
    We're currently working with the State of Arizona and I 
think Intertribal Council in Tohono O'Odham have the same idea. 
The States need to recognize an allow tribes to have the option 
of being a reporting jurisdiction. Take a look at your threats 
and your vulnerabilities and your needs as a whole picture and 
be able to report that directly to the State. I think that 
would be mutually beneficial to the States, because as it is 
now, they're getting a fractured picture of what the threat and 
risk assessment is, the capabilities in Indian country. I think 
the States could actually make a better case for more funding 
if they had a good picture of the lack of capabilities and 
resources in Indian country.
    So as the Homeland Security Act is implemented, I think 
this is another issue that kind of has to work its way down 
through the State, through the counties. And you have to be 
willing to negotiate for the funding and things that you need 
to enhance your capabilities with regard to health care and 
public health. Again, I think it's probably incumbent on the 
Department of Homeland Security to require that the tribes have 
direct access to some of this funding and technical assistance.
    We heard a little bit about the strategic national 
stockpile today. If there were an incident, I heard the 
gentleman back there say that tribes would have good access to 
those medications and things. But down there where the rubber 
hits the road, in some of our meetings at the joint 
bioterrorism task force, with some of our counties, those 
issues still haven't been worked out. You say, oh, it will work 
just fine. But we would prefer to see some good, hard work 
going into some concrete agreements and concrete processes by 
which tribes could access that national strategic stockpile. I 
think again the Department of Homeland Security has a role to 
play in making sure that that happens.
    Funding, after all, is the bottomline. We can't do it 
without the proper funding. We talked a little bit about S. 
1245. Gila River is going to be preparing some language to try 
to get that bill in the proper form that would allow some 
direct funding. One thing we're running into with the grant 
process is that the announcements for these grants come through 
the States, through the counties. Then we hear about them 1 
week or so before the proposals are due. Well, that's just not 
time to work through the council process for approving cost 
shares and things like that. So I think those are some other 
implementation issues that we're facing.
    I've got a couple of recommendations for DHS as they 
implement the Homeland Security Act. They need to include the 
tribes in the development and implementation of the national 
response plan and the national incident management system. and 
they must retain an all hazards approach to emergency 
management. If we're prepared for those natural, technological 
and intentional disasters, then we can handle those terrorism 
    Again, DHS should require the States to give the tribes the 
opportunity to be a reporting jurisdiction for their threat 
assessments. DHS should also support corrections to the 
Stafford Act and to the Homeland Security Act that gives proper 
recognition to tribal sovereignty and takes those small steps 
forward in helping tribes get the proper funding and technical 
assistance that they need.
    Thank you very much.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Tim.
    Our next speaker is Chairman Wallace Coffey, who is the 
Chairman of the Comanche Nation in Oklahoma. Wallace?


    Mr. Coffey. I want to commend each and every one of you for 
the seriousness that you have taken with regard to homeland 
    I want to ask some questions, because I've seen a lot of 
changes over the years, and because it takes tragic events to 
open our eyes and to try to create a more positive atmosphere 
in which our people can live. How many of you in this room 
remember where you were during the assassination of President 
Kennedy in 1963? Raise your hands. There's a lot of young 
people, they weren't even born in that time.
    How many of you remember where you were in 1968 when Martin 
Luther King was assassinated? In the 1960's, there was a lot of 
racial strife, tremendous problems, especially in my State of 
Oklahoma. In the 1970s, we as Indian people, we had an 
occupation in Wounded Knee, and here in Washington, DC as well. 
Some of you may remember those times. And Government initiated 
some responses to that, like affirmative action, equal 
    But they don't look ahead. They look behind and it's always 
a reaction to things. In 1977, there was a documentary that 
came out called Roots, the most widely watched mini-series in 
television today. Everybody went back to their Bibles, family 
trees, historical societies, to discover who they are and where 
they came from. I know a young lady that went to 11 B.C. Indian 
people, we didn't have to go anywhere. We already knew who we 
are, where we come from.
    But when that happened, a new pride existed in being an 
American. But how quickly they forget. We thought everything 
was going to be okay until the early 1990's, whenever we saw 
things happening, apartheid come down, wall of Germany come 
down, then all of a sudden gangs and the cryps and a lot of us 
didn't even know what anti-Semitism was. But like I said 
earlier, it takes tragic events to open our eyes.
    Now, how many of you remember in 1994 when the Murrow 
building was bombed? How many of you remember where you were? 
See, now, the younger ones raise their hands. Then we all 
remember 9/11, but how quick they forget. We knew we weren't 
going to be included in this homeland security. That was just a 
given. They had done it to us before.
    I'm a product of what I call historical trauma. Some of you 
may have seen this movie, Dances with Wolves. My great-
grandfather was a principal character of that movie, Ten Bears. 
Actually, his name was Pano Samona, Ten Bear. But the white man 
gave him the name of Ten Bears. He was also in a movie, Outlaw 
Josie Wales. That time of terrorism, bioterrorism, was 
impacting on my people. I can take you to several places in 
Texas and Oklahoma where we are the products of smallpox and 
cholera. At one time there were 200,000 Comanches. When they 
came into the reservation in 1887, there were 1,800. We weren't 
afraid to fight.
    But the greatest obstacle to our life was bioterrorism, 
smallpox and cholera. It even went into the 1940's, whenever 
some of our relatives had tuberculosis. My ancestors thought 
that was the work of government against our people again.
    So this is not new to us. So we have to be prepared. My 
great-great grandfather Ten Bears said, Comanches are not like 
pups, we're farsighted like grown horses. So when the Murrow 
Building was blown up, we started preparing for ourselves. We 
have this emergency response plan. From 1994 to 1997 we built 
community centers, shelters, so if time comes and something's 
going to happen, we can have a place that we can go. And I want 
to thank you for that food, because if it's not gone by the 
time we leave today, I'm going to take it home to my people. 
    Whoever provided us with food, I want to say thank you, 
because that really did something good for us.
    I've got some thoughts I want to share with you. Because 
from the State of Oklahoma, my reservation is located adjacent 
to Fort Sill military base. And I don't know who else is from 
Oklahoma, but there are 38 tribes in the State of Oklahoma and 
not all tribes have the emergency response plans.
    But that does not mean that they are not interested, and I 
know that they are. It's just very unfortunate that the two 
agencies designed to serve us do not advocate for us, IHS and 
BIA. They're not putting their foot in the door with homeland 
security. Do you know why? Because there's no Indians in there. 
I want to see an Indian person that I can talk to that can 
assure me that we're going to get some services and some 
responses to our concerns and our needs. We're going to get 
overlooked again. So we have to take care of things for 
ourselves. That's the bottomline.
    My grandfather died a very bitter man because he was 
betrayed. The person that promised him peace did not deliver. 
Also took our land through the Allotment Act and Dawes Act. And 
he watched as the Oklahoma, what they call the Oklahoma Run of 
1889, and everybody gave our land away. He stood there watching 
everybody taking our territory. And now we have to prepare for 
what little territory we have, we don't have a reservation. So 
when the Dawes Act created our communities, they did a 
checkerboard, we'll put you over here, and we'll put you over 
here, and we'll put you way over there so you all won't get 
together and create war again.
    Well, we knew about that. So we're prepared as best we can. 
But we don't have everything. I'd like to see that some of the 
problems that we have is emergency preparedness and response. 
I'd like to have the resources to train our people that when 
time of terrorism comes, that they'll be prepared. I'd like to 
have warning systems whereas in the event of any attack, our 
people would know that these attacks are going to be upon us as 
well. I want to have a siren. [Laughter.]
    I'd like to have some informational systems within our 
communities, so we can have coordination with other 
governments. But it's not them spending money to help us, it's 
going to be us to outdo them, so they can learn from our 
capabilities. And someone used to say in the history of our 
people, it's a good day to die. Our people don't think so when 
you're suffering from smallpox or cholera. That's not good, 
because my folks tell about the stories that their people went 
through during that time. And they're not good stories.
    But we do need the basic idealism of Native American Indian 
traits to be aware of this threat awareness, preparedness and 
protection services. And I need resources. Resources to 
respond. I could use 1,000 MREs in five areas of our community 
right now, that's meals ready to eat. I could use 1,000 
blankets in five different locations in our community right 
now. Plus I could use whatever medicines and supplies that are 
available right now to any community, why can't I have the same 
thing? That's not too much to ask.
    Well, I wanted to call that attention to you, and I'm glad 
to be here. But it just says that if we don't do it, nobody's 
going to do it for us. So I appreciate you very much. Thank 
    Mr. Trudell. Harold Frazier, Harold is the chairman of the 
Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe in South Dakota. He'll share with us 
what is going on in South Dakota.
    I also want to mention that Cynthia Bender will speak also, 
she's the present CEO of the Alaska Native Health Board.

                      TRIBE, SOUTH DAKOTA

    Mr. Frazier. Thank you. I'm the chairman of the Cheyenne 
River Sioux Tribe. We have four bands of the great Sioux Nation 
that are on our reservation. Our reservation encompasses over 
2.8 million acres of land. We have a major river on the eastern 
edge of our reservation, the Missouri River. There's Standing 
Rock, Cheyenne River, Lower Brule, Crow Creek, Yankton, and 
Santee Sioux Tribes that live along that river. I think that 
river is classified as the cleanest river in the United States. 
So it needs a lot of protection.
    I'd like to begin by saying that it's time that the Federal 
Government needs to start living up to their promises, promises 
that are owed to our people through treaties. We have treaties 
with the U.S. Government that need to be honored, and we need 
to be treated as nations.
    I agree with the previous speakers about homeland security 
is nothing new. We Indian tribes have been fighting terrorism 
since 1492. Like I mentioned before, we need to be treated as 
nations. We tribes need to be respected and treated, maybe even 
at the very least be treated like States. Fair treatment and 
funding, the sovereignty, the respect that is owed to our 
    There's a lot of tribes that do not have good relationships 
with the State governments. I always feel that where I'm from, 
back home they call it the Alabama of the north. That's South 
Dakota. So what we really need is direct funding to the tribal 
governments, bypassing the States.
    In closing, Chairman Murphy from Standing Rock was supposed 
to talk. I wasn't really prepared to have a formal testimony. I 
just want to thank you for the opportunity to be able to say a 
few words and hope things come around. Because I agree with the 
Comanche chairman that no one's going to help us, we've got to 
help ourselves. That's one of the things, the Federal 
Government won't give us funding, they just need to leave us 
alone and respect us so we can utilize our lands and make a 
living off our lands for our people.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Harold. Make sure you take some of 
those MREs with you back there. [Laughter.]
    Our next speaker is Chuck Matheson, who is a council member 
and the law and order administrator for the Coeur d'Alene 
Reservation in the State of Idaho. Chuck?

                       RESERVATION, IDAHO

    Mr. Matheson. Thank you. I really appreciate the 
opportunity to get up and speak, I'm very honored to be able to 
get up here and speak in front of the likes of all you great 
tribal leaders, leaders that we look up to and I've recognized 
over many years, like Anthony Pico and Keller George and many 
of you others that I've seen around over the years, or maybe 
heard my older brothers or my dad speak about over the years. 
It's very much an honor for me to get up here and speak to you 
    I was listening to everybody speak, I was kind of thinking 
about it. Throughout Indian country, with the growing industry 
of gaming, a lot of us have some pretty fancy facilities on our 
reservations, places that used to be ranches and farms and 
things like that are now big Vegas type buildings. I think 
maybe we've been kind of lucky that we haven't had a major 
terrorist attack on one of these facilities, or maybe it's more 
that we're more of an afterthought to the United States, that 
terrorists don't know how poorly funded and in the minds of the 
U.S. Government, we're probably the furthest thing in the minds 
of the U.S. Government as far as homeland security goes. That's 
what we need to do, we need to speak up and make sure that 
we're not an afterthought to those people any more.
    Chairman Pico I think said that some people maybe don't 
think we have enough population to be concerned about terrorist 
attacks in our area. I can see why they would think that. My 
hometown, I think the official population is less than 200. If 
you count in the tribal houses which are outside the city 
limits, maybe it's around 300 people. But a couple miles north 
of there, we have that casino. And in that casino, we just 
started construction, we'll soon have 200 hotel rooms, 1,500 
slot machines and probably 700 and some employees when 
everything is said and done.
    We've had a terrorist scare there once. This was actually a 
few weeks before the 9/11 incident happened. There was this 
middle eastern gentleman that had been calling up and saying he 
was going to bring a bus down from Vancouver, Canada. Initially 
when he called, he was very polite and very friendly and 
courteous to our employees. But on 9/12, the day after the Twin 
Towers went down, the gentleman called back and all of a sudden 
he was very abrasive and abusive to our employees when he 
called. Eventually we just told the guy he couldn't bring his 
bus and that's the last we heard of him.
    I guess we'll probably never know whether the guy was 
really a terrorist or not. But it certainly wasn't worth taking 
the risk at that point anyway.
    I've heard a couple other people talk about cross-
deputization. We have two counties within our reservation and 
we have cross-deputization agreements with both counties. That 
certainly takes care of some of the jurisdictional questions, 
not all of them, but it takes care of a lot of them. One county 
that we deal with, they have a very large metro area off the 
reservation. And most any time that they get a call down in our 
area, you'll hear their shift supervisor, their sergeant or 
whatever it is, tell the dispatcher, see if the tribe can 
handle it. The other county is so small, they barely even have 
a sheriff's department. They refuse to respond to Indian calls.
    So pretty much, we've handled even before we got the cross-
deputization agreements and jurisdiction to handle all the 
calls. We've been handling most of the calls all along anyway.
    One local fire district in our area, the Worley Fire 
District, told us that if we expected them to provide fire 
protection at our casino, we had to buy them $3 million worth 
of equipment. We since just bought our own equipment and we're 
starting up our own fire department.
    A couple of years ago, the Idaho tribes got together down 
in Boise and told the legislature that the use of the word 
squaw offended us. We asked them to please change the names of 
places that used the word squaw, for example, on our lake, 
Coeur d'Alene Lake, there's a bay that's called Squaw Bay. And 
across the lake from there, there's a bay called Little Squaw 
Bay. Well, they didn't think that was such a good idea, and 
they made remarks like, well, when I grew up, I knew an Indian 
when I was growing up and he thought it was funny when we 
called his little sister squaw. Squaw is not a bad word. That's 
the kind of mentality that we work with in the State of Idaho. 
I'm sure that Idaho is not the only State that's like that.
    Working through the State of Idaho or any State as far as I 
can tell, to get access to homeland security money, does not 
work. The Idaho legislature absolutely positively opposes 
anything and everything that might be good for tribes.
    I mentioned when I first began that maybe we're somewhat of 
an afterthought to some of these people. We need to make sure 
that we're not an afterthought any more. This hearing that's 
going on tomorrow doesn't get underway until 2 o'clock. That 
leaves us all morning to go out and pound on doors of 
Congressmen and Senators and hopefully I'll see you in the 
hallways tomorrow, in the Senate and the Congress. Thanks.
    Mr. Trudell. Cynthia Bender, who is the president and CEO 
of the Alaska Native Health Board. Cynthia, we're saving the 
best for almost last.


    Ms. Bender. [Greeting given in native tongue.] I'm very 
honored to be here today. I'm an administrator, I'm certainly 
not your peer. I am here in representation of the Alaska Native 
Health Organizations. I want to make sure that everybody is 
understanding that I am not a representative of the 229 Alaska 
federally recognized tribes. I am only an administrator, and 
here to testify on behalf of the chairman of the Alaska Native 
Health Board, who was unable to make it due to, he lives in the 
Aleutians in Alaska, and we've suffered some bad weather this 
week and he was unable to make it to Washington, DC. I live in 
Anchorage, in the biggest city and was able to get here very 
quickly yesterday.
    Today I'd like to paint a picture of Alaska for all of you, 
our brothers and sisters from the lower 48. Tomorrow during the 
testimony I do not have a slot to testify, a verbal testimony. 
I ask that the things I present to you today, especially in 
regards to Alaska Tribes not being included in S. 578, that you 
carry our message on our behalf.
    The Alaska Native Health System up in Alaska is the largest 
in America when it comes to native health, organized native 
health. On behalf of the organizations who operate health 
operations for the 229 tribes in Alaska, ANHB strongly 
encourages Congress to consider not pursuing language on S. 578 
that separates Alaska tribes by the definition of Indian 
tribes. And what we'd like to offer, and we've provided this in 
writing, currently Alaska tribal leaders are analyzing language 
to further identify the funding stream issues related to the 
current language that separates Alaska from other federally 
recognized tribes. When this is completed, we'll submit that to 
the Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and across the Nation, 
throughout all our Native organizations.
    The Homeland Security Act as written relegates Alaska 
tribes as a mere local government, while respecting other 
tribes in a government to government relationship. Despite many 
interpretations by the State, Congress and Alaskans, we are 
Alaska Native Tribes. We do not apologize for being who we are.
    Fortunately, this oversight can easily be remedied with a 
minimum of controversy by simply amending the current 
definitions of Indian tribe in S. 578, with the well 
established statutory definition of that term found in the 
Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act, which 
reads, Indian tribe means any Indian tribe, band, nation or 
other organized group or community, including any Alaska Native 
village or regional or village corporation as defined in or 
established pursuant to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement 
Act, which is recognized as eligible for the special programs 
and services provided by the United States to Indians because 
of their status as Indians.
    Again, I'll repeat that we do not have a slot for verbal 
testimony tomorrow. So I respectfully request to you in Indian 
country to assist Alaska Natives to be our voice, to include 
us, your most northern family, in S. 578. This is my most 
important message today.
    Now for the big picture in regard to concerns that we have 
in Alaska when it comes to homeland security. The Alaska Native 
Health System works in conjunction with the Alaska Native 
Tribal Health, or ANHB, excuse me, Alaska Native Health Board 
works in conjunction with the Alaska native tribal health 
organizations and their health directors to provide 
comprehensive health services to over 120,000 Alaska native 
people and in some areas to non-native residents that have no 
other access to a health facility. Our health system is made up 
primarily of nine tribally operated service units, six regional 
tribal hospitals, 24 tribal health centers and 176 tribal 
community health aid practitioner clinics.
    Alaska Native Tribal Health Consortium, which is our 
tertiary care hospital in Anchorage, along with the South 
Central Foundation, manages the Alaska Native Medical Center, 
the statewide referral hospital within the Alaska Native health 
system. The system has developed into one of the most 
sophisticated and comprehensive tribally owned and managed 
health care systems in the world.
    Alaska Native tribes believe that the security of our 
homeland requires a significant role of tribes in performing 
critical government and first responder functions throughout 
this great Nation. We are firmly convinced that consultation 
with tribes would enhance national readiness and capacity to 
deal with acts of terror directed against the United States.
    The Department of Homeland Security must consider that 
tribal lands could be direct targets or adjacent to direct 
targets of terrorist attacks. In Alaska, attacks on our oil 
resources and distribution system, the pipeline, Port of Valdez 
and oil tankers could have major disruptive and economic 
impacts to the United States. There are over 800 miles of 
pipeline and pump stations located throughout Alaska that run 
directly through federally recognized tribal villages and 
lands. This pipeline is one of the most critical 
infrastructures to be considered vulnerable.
    Tribal resources should and will serve as a willing partner 
in United States efforts to deal with terrorism. In my home 
State of Alaska, about one out of six State residents are 
beneficiaries of our native health system. But our philosophy 
and responsibility transcends that definition of a beneficiary. 
In emergencies, the native health system serves all who need 
help, whether they are accident victims transported to the 
Alaska Native Medical Center in Anchorage or a tourist from New 
Jersey or fish processing plant worker from California who 
receives care at a tribal community clinic.
    An example of our sense of commitment and responsibility is 
the disaster medical assistance team, supported and manned 
through the Alaska Native Medical Center. These teams are 
designed to respond to and provide emergency medical care 
during disasters and medical emergencies. It was our honor to 
dispatch our team to New York City to assist with the World 
Trade Center recovery efforts.
    There are three basic forms of local government that exist 
in Alaska. We have the tribe, city and borough. The borough is 
similar to the county in many other States. Alaska is unique, 
because most of it has not been organized into political units. 
Currently, 13 organized boroughs cover about one-third of our 
    Tribes and regional native health organizations will be the 
first emergency response teams in many areas throughout Alaska, 
including Anchorage as the Alaska Native Medical Center, as the 
only hospital in the State with a level two trauma center 
rating. In accordance with statutory eligibility rules set 
forth in the Indian Health Care Improvement Act, at 25 U.S.C. 
1680(c), and in accordance with the Emergency Medical Treatment 
and Women in Active Labor Act for emergency patients, these 
tribes and tribal organizations usually serve all members of 
their respective communities, Alaska Natives and non-natives 
    Since 9/11, ANTHC has been involved in bioterrorism 
preparedness for the community health providers. ANTHC is the 
consortium that is also the manager of the Alaska Native 
Medical Center. Because of the recent SARS outbreak, many of 
these health professionals have been evaluating their risk for 
exposure to contagious diseases. Alaska fortunately did not 
have any SARS cases, but we understand the value of planning 
for these types of terrorist contingencies. Alaska is a major 
pathway in the world market, whether it involves a tourist, 
process worker, air cargo and international flight crew or the 
    Terrorism or acts of war against civilians, the first 
responders, the front line defense are civil authorities, 
community emergency responders and health professionals. In 
many parts of Alaska, the first responders will be tribal 
members or their employees. And in rural Alaska, the victims of 
bioterrorism will almost certainly turn to a tribal health care 
provider for assistance.
    If Alaska were attacked, or if Alaska had to respond, 
travelers infected or exposed to smallpox or plague or 
influenza or SARS elsewhere, the Alaska Native Health System 
would be involved. If mass casualties occurred, ANMC and our 
regional hospitals would be key and valuable resources for 
relieving suffering and saving lives.
    In addition, there are over 1,000 commission corps officers 
that work in the IHS system in Alaska. We need a place in the 
system to ensure that in the event of a national emergency 
there will be considerations in place to handle deployment of 
these doctors and nurses in response to that effort. We will 
also need to ensure that the care of our Alaska natives will 
not suffer from the mass exodus of these professionals. The 
situation we need to be prepared for is maintaining an adequate 
number of providers to meet the current need as well as in a 
critical responsive nature.
    Border security, as you know, is also a challenge in 
Alaska. With 586,412 square miles, or about 365 million acres, 
Alaska is the largest State in the Union, one-fifth the size of 
the lower 48 States. That means we are 488 times larger than 
Rhode Island, 2\1/2\ times larger than Texas, and larger than 
the next three largest States in the United States combined.
    The last census puts Alaska's population at 634,892. Nearly 
one-half of the State's residents live in Anchorage. Alaska has 
.93 square miles for each person in the State. By comparison, 
New York has .003 square miles per person. Alaska natives make 
up about 19 percent of the State's population. There are 
hundreds of miles of Alaskan borders that are isolated and 
remote. In addition, there are many villages that are border 
communities. Alaska has 6,640 miles of coastline, and the 
estimated tidal shoreline is 47,300 miles. The Yukon River, 
almost 2,000 miles long, is the third longest river in the 
United States There are more than 3,000 rivers in Alaska, and 
over 3 million lakes. Our State's adjacent saltwater bodies 
entail the north Pacific Ocean, the Bering Sea, the Chuckchee 
Sea and the Arctic Ocean. The Alaska-Canada border is 1,538 
miles long, and the southeast border with British Columbia and 
Yukon Territory is 710 miles long, with a water boundary at 181 
    With all this land and coastline, and so little policing 
authority or resources, it is essential that tribes be 
consulted on homeland security, planning and development 
infrastructure and authority. We don't have very much of a road 
system in the State of Alaska, due to mountain ranges, glaciers 
and our vast wilderness. We have natural barriers for 
transportation, so we rely heavily, mostly on air 
transportation. In fact, Alaska has about 6 times as many 
pilots and 14 times as many aircraft per capita as the rest of 
the United States.
    Lake Hood in Anchorage is the world's largest and busiest 
seaplane base. Bethel, one of our regional hubs, serves 56 
villages and is the third busiest airport in the State. In 
1996, one out of every 58 Alaskans was a registered pilot. I 
was one of those. I got that in high school training. Over 200 
Alaska communities do not have road access, so boats or ATV's, 
but more often planes are primary means of transport. With our 
roadless areas comes a challenge to access the nearest 
inpatient medical facilities. Approximately half of Alaska's 
population lives in these rural communities.
    Fundamental access to health care is one of the most 
critical factors affecting our population. It is very obvious 
that we took our air travel for granted. September in Alaska is 
moose hunting season. And many of our subsistence hunters were 
out in the wilderness. Though they were cut off from 
communication with civilization, they knew something was wrong 
when they didn't hear or see aircraft traffic in our vast skies 
during 9/11.
    Tribal law enforcement in our villages is challenging, as 
are our health programs. The village public safety officer 
[VPSO] program, much like our certified health aide 
practitioner program, is unique to Alaska. Not only is it 
critical to get health professionals to serve in remote, 
isolated communities in Alaska, but it is a challenge in the 
law enforcement field as well. Whereas in the certified health 
aide practitioner program, we took control of the lack of human 
resources by building up our own unique professional outfit, 
the VPSO program has been built up very much the same.
    The law enforcement in most rural ares is the primary 
responsibility of the Alaska State troopers. From rural 
outposts, the troopers attempt to respond immediately to 
emergencies, felonies and misdemeanor cases. Their efforts 
however are often hampered by delayed notification, long 
response distance and the uncertainties of weather and 
transportation. In communities associated with the VPSO 
program, citizens are afforded immediate response to all 
emergencies without the delay caused by weather, distance or 
budgetary restraints. However, VPSO's are not expected, nor are 
they physically equipped, to handle high risk situations or 
trained to execute complex investigations.
    VPSO's are actually funded through a grant program. Those 
grants are given to tribal organizations, tribal health and 
tribal social organizations throughout the State of Alaska. 
Thus, VPSO's are not State employees or Federal employees, they 
are employees of our tribal organizations throughout the State.
    In 2002, 85 communities were funded for a VPSO. Throughout 
the whole State there are at least 124 villages that have had a 
VPSO over the last 30 years. The State has just recently 
announced a cut in funding for up to 15 VPSO positions due to 
fiscal restraints. So over time, the VPSO programs are becoming 
increasingly tribal, from an economic perspective.
    Realistically, in Alaska it would simply be impossible to 
carry out the letter and intent of the many law enforcement 
related provisions of the Homeland Security Act without 
mandating the full, fair and proper inclusion of all the tribes 
and tribal organizations that operate village public safety 
officer programs. VPSO's have been characterized by the State 
as the first responders of the last frontier. But we believe 
that the tribal government, the officers and the certified 
health aide practitioner program make up this distinction. 
These programs must have a place in the administration of 
homeland security.
    Just to tell you a little bit about the community health 
aide program, in most Alaska communities, our CHAP's are of 
necessity health carers, first responders to virtually any 
crisis or public emergency that occurs. By virtue of the 
isolation and distance of most Alaska communities to more 
established ones forms of health care, such as doctors offices, 
pharmacies and hospitals, CHAP's are all in one. Like VPSO's in 
emergencies, CHAPs often lack the most basic forms of health 
care backup and frequently are called upon to undertake life 
and death situations or decisions regarding members of their 
communities, including their own family members.
    CHAP's are statutorily authorized at 25 U.S.C. 16161(a)(2) 
to generally provide health care, health promotion and disease 
prevention services to Alaska Natives living in villages in 
rural Alaska. Under the express terms of the Indian Health Care 
Improvement Act, the CHAP program in Alaska is a Federal public 
function carried out by the Secretary of Health and Human 
Services through the Indian Health Service. However, under the 
Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act, the 
CHAP function may be compacted by the IHS to an Indian tribe or 
tribal organization, and in fact has been completely and 
successfully compacted to numerous tribes and tribal 
organizations in Alaska for many years now.
    We're also having a number of things that I'll just list 
here. Tribal search and rescue operations in Alaska, tribes or 
tribal organizations operate formal or informal search and 
rescue operations often without any formal funding or training 
for our search and rescue. A majority of the search and rescue 
efforts involve snow machine detail, to find and pick up a 
hapless community member who's own snow machine has run out of 
gas or broken down. More frequently, however, it involves a 
heartbreaking days or weeks long process of dragging the 
rivers, the bottom of a river, lake or ocean for the remains of 
a loved one who had gone missing, but whose boat or snow 
machine has been recovered with no trace of the owner.
    Tribal firefighting operations also are a concern for us. 
Many Alaska tribes or tribal organization contract or compact 
the Department of the Interior under the Indian Self-
Determination and Education Assistance Act to hire firefighting 
crews during the summer to fight fires on Federal lands or 
Federal trust lands. These crews are known throughout the 
western United States for their superior skill, bravery and 
ability to work hard for long periods of time under grueling 
circumstances. What's most ironic about our expert firefighters 
is a great many of them come from coastal Arctic communities 
that don't even have trees.
    We also have tribal sanitation and health facility 
construction issues. Over the years, Alaska tribes and tribal 
organizations have progressively managed a greater and greater 
percentage of all sanitation and health facility construction 
projects in rural Alaska. Collectively, tribes and tribal 
organizations now manage over nine figures worth of village 
sanitation and health facility projects annually, dwarfing the 
monetary value of such village projects managed by our own 
State of Alaska. The IHS funds only a small percentage of these 
tribally managed projects. The State of Alaska does not come 
close to Alaska tribes and tribal organizations when it comes 
to the critical government function of building water and sewer 
and health facility infrastructure in rural Alaska, including 
Alaska native villages.
    The ownership of those systems also in dozens of Alaska 
native villages where there is no formal local municipal 
government, the local tribe is often the default governmental 
entity in the community. And as a result, often ends up taking 
up ownership of any water and sewer system serving the 
community per the funding rules found in Federal and State laws 
and regulations. For example, the Clean Water Act.
    If there is even enough funding to build a basic water and 
sewer system in our remote communities, tribes find it 
extremely challenging to drum up the money and the technical 
capacity to maintain the most basic services that they rely 
upon to keep their families safe from infection and disease. 
Economy of scale and the benefits of shared support and 
services often give them little choice but to pool resources 
and to work cooperatively with a regional and/or statewide 
tribal health organization to carry out the basic governmental 
function of maintaining a clean, safe water and sewer system. 
Often the sanitation maintenance support role is specifically 
spelled out in the tribal organization's contract or compact 
with the IHS.
    In many regions and communities of Alaska, the sole health 
care provider is the local tribe or tribal health organization, 
which typically will operate either a small primary care 
hospital or a village built clinic. In this manner, many Alaska 
tribes and tribal health organizations truly carryout the 
critical government and first responder function of being the 
sole community hospital or health clinic, and play exactly the 
same role that a county hospital or public hospital might play 
in other States. These tribes and tribal organization 
facilities can be predicted to be the epicenter of any 
significant public health event in their respective communities 
or regions, such as an outbreak of an infectious disease. It 
will be difficult if not impossible in Alaska to give full 
effect to the Homeland Security Act public health provisions 
without mandating the full and proper inclusion of all Alaska 
tribes and tribal health organizations that act as the sole 
provider of hospital or health clinic services in their 
respective communities or regions.
    In our ongoing effort to build a world class health system, 
ANTHC, the Alaska Native Tribal Health Consortium, in 
cooperation with the South Central Foundation, has managed the 
Alaska Native Medical Center in such a way as to achieve a 
number of distinctions with regard to quality of care. For 
example, as Alaska's only level 2 trauma center, ANMC provides 
the highest quality of trauma care in the State. And as 
Alaska's only hospital with a prestigious nursing care magnet 
status, ANMC has set new unprecedented standard for patient 
care, high quality tertiary nursing care.
    Even though we intend to continue setting quality standards 
of this nature, success has created new challenges that weren't 
anticipated. We also have a tribal health information system 
that is unique and could be shared throughout the world. For 
over 20 years, Alaska tribes and tribal organizations have 
taken a leadership role in building health information systems 
to beset serve their customer-owner patients. More recently, in 
the last five years, the Consortium has taken a leadership role 
in developing high quality health information systems. The most 
notable, in cooperation with the Coast Guard, the Department of 
Defense and the Veterans Administration, the Consortium manages 
the Alaska Federal Health Care Access Network, the largest 
privately managed telemedicine network in the world. The AFHCAN 
system is in widespread use among tribes, tribal organizations 
and Federal and State agencies statewide. But its applications 
are so new, unique and useful, especially at the small 
community level, that they constantly push the boundaries of 
traditional concepts of medical practice, such as what 
constitutes the practice of medicine, what constitutes a 
professional service versus a facility service, or what 
constitutes a reimbursable event.
    In its role as the manager of the AFHCAN system, the 
Consortium is thrust into a dual role of performing the 
critical government functions of both performing research and 
development on a new and promising technology that could 
completely revolutionize how health care is delivered in the 
United States and throughout the world. In applying that 
technology in the here and now in the national interest to 
improve disease prevention and health promotion among a 
population, American Indians and Alaska Natives, that is 
desperately in need of it. We need the technology support 
provisions and its comprehensive integrated approach to 
security, the safety of communities without mandating the full, 
fair and proper inclusion of tribal organizations, such as the 
Alaska Native Tribal Health Consortium, is a leader in 
establishing new worldwide standards of quality and health care 
information systems.
    In conclusion, for all that has been outlined in the daily 
life of tribal operations in the State of Alaska, we already 
have a vested interest in all aspects of homeland security. We 
deserve to be a partner in the administration of such 
regulatory mandates. From border security, Medivac services, 
law enforcement, facility defense, health and associated care, 
we are already a part of the system. We need only to assure 
that recognition in S. 578.
    Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Before we begin to kind of wrap up today, 
David Nez, did you want to add to the remarks you made this 
morning regarding Navajo?
    Mr. Nez. Thank you very much.
    I'm going to be speaking and representing Navajo Nation. 
Our president, Joe Shirley, Jr., won't be here with us today. 
He's got other commitments.
    Earlier in my presentation, when we speak on law 
enforcement, I identified some critical infrastructure that we 
have on or that borders Navajo Nation. I've also talked about 
preparation and protecting our first line defense in Navajo 
Nation. We solely depend on our first line defense, our first 
responders, the law enforcement, crime investigators, 
firefighters, EMS. So for those reasons, because of remoteness 
and distance, our resources do take a little time. That's where 
we really need to be prepared to protect and make sure that our 
first line defense is prepared and ready for their 
    I'd like to followup on a statement that was made by one of 
the gentlemen here about why homeland security is not working 
on Indian country. Last week our Navajo Nation Council just 
went through a 1-week summer session. One of our special guests 
out there was Senator Lieberman. One of our delegates, council 
delegate Hope McDonald Long Tree, who is the chairperson for 
our public safety committee, raised the issue and concern about 
the same question. She went on and asked Senator Lieberman that 
they would like to raise these issues and concerns to the next 
level, and that perhaps they could arrange a joint committee 
meeting between Senate Committee on Indian Affairs and Senate 
Committee on Governmental Affairs and talk about commitments to 
Indian country in terms of homeland security funds, homeland 
security commitments. And from what I hear this afternoon is 
that Mr. Lieberman did make a commitment to followup on this 
    Tomorrow some of you guys and the leaders are going to be 
making testimony. I also would like to make a request that we 
also go back, that we go back to our notes. We shared a lot of 
information today. That we go back to our notes and take a look 
at the issues and concerns that we have shared this morning and 
this afternoon, and take a look at why homeland security is not 
working on Navajo Nation. Each tribe has its own unique 
government to government relationship with the Federal 
Government, with the State and the counties. So when it comes 
to another allocation, another funding through homeland 
security, these agencies seem to take this more convenient 
route to disseminate or allocate these fundings. Sometimes it's 
not as convenient for us, because we have to go through a lot 
of justification, we have to go through applications, we have 
to go through scrutiny on exactly how we're going to be using 
these fundings.
    I know that from the State of Arizona, the Intertribal 
Council, they're asking for direct funding from the Federal 
Government to Indian tribes. What does that exactly mean? Does 
that mean take one of those government to government 
relationship funding routes? Or does it literally mean what it 
says, or what we're saying, that Indian tribes go to a Federal 
office and get the direct funding? Because I'd like to see 
something more specific in that area of direct funding.
    The language could say that homeland security direct 
funding should supersede all other funding allocations for 
Indian country or Indian government. One example that I like to 
make with the State of New Mexico, because we're working with 
New Mexico and Arizona on how we're working on the distribution 
and allocation of funding. In New Mexico, there are several 
tribes in New Mexico and the Department of Indian Affairs, the 
money has been routed to the Department of Indian Affairs. And 
my understanding is that 10 percent of that homeland security 
fund has been set aside for Indian country.
    Navajo Nation received $25,000 to conduct an assessment 
within the eight counties that Navajo Nation resides on. And as 
you go further in how this 10 percent was set aside, again, 
that report is that the allocations are based on population and 
not by critical infrastructure or by assessment involving 
vulnerability or to increase our capabilities. So each State, 
each county seems to approach tribes in different manners. I 
believe a lot of these avenues that they are selecting are not 
very beneficial for Indian country. We need to work on a 
consistent process or procedure.
    We have an office here, and I had a chance to talk with a 
couple of legal people and also the staff here that work with 
the Congressional staff here. And we talked about the 
solutions, we talked a lot about a lot of our issues and 
concerns and the problem areas. I believe we should also 
present some solutions tomorrow, as I just stated here. But for 
Navajo Nation, we're going to lobby, starting today as we 
speak, with letters and with telephone calls. We're talking 
about establishing a facility with staff, set up a data 
collection system for Indian country, because the first step is 
this assessment. Because assessment is information that is 
going to be the justification on your 2004 allocations.
    And we do have a police academy that's available. I feel 
that we need to expand from that origin, that we need to really 
get involved in the training and the preparation.
    I'd like to thank everyone that's here on behalf of the 
president, Joe Shirley, Jr., from Navajo Nation. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, Dave.
    Is there anybody else that wants to say anything? We don't 
want to leave anybody out.
    It's been a long day, and I couldn't help but think of one 
of the lines from one of the Tom Hanks movies, I don't know if 
it was the astronaut or whatever, when he said, ``Houston, 
we've got a problem.'' We read it now, it's ``DHS, we've got a 
problem.'' If we don't somehow come together on these matters, 
then we're going to leave this place, including the hearing 
tomorrow, just not having any kind of plan to move forward. 
Obviously there are a lot of factors to consider. Obviously 
we're rapidly getting into the next political cycle, and who 
knows what lies ahead in that regard.
    We have some unfortunate differences in terms of where 
different Congressional delegations stand, in terms of being 
supportive of tribes receiving the recognition that they 
rightfully deserve. I know with the sovereign protection 
initiative, we spent a great effort, and at the same time, 
we're still not all on the same page. I would assume with this 
area it may be the same. Obviously it is all about funding.
    But there have to be some tribes that step up and help 
facilitate kind of an organizing process, so we can follow 
through. Otherwise it's going to be for naught. I know that a 
lot of tribes have a lot on their plate, such as; jurisdiction, 
funding, homeland security, or gaming. As John Echohawk was 
commenting, this Lara decision, what looms ahead with the 
Supreme Court, that particular case, if the Supreme Court does 
grant review, it can just provide chaos in Indian country.
    But I hope that we will all take something from this 
meeting. Speaking for myself, it was very enjoyable to listen 
to all these different scenarios. I think within reason we're 
kind of circling the same page, we just need to get on it and 
come up with a plan, in particular kind of a short-term plan 
with the spending bills in front of us. I assume once the 
Congress comes back from their August recess that the bulk of 
the time is going to be spent on the spending bills. It's my 
understanding that some of the politicians will be talking a 
great deal about homeland security during the recess, as the 
parties search for issues in terms of what will make a 
difference next year with the 2004 election.
    I don't know if anybody has any other comments they want to 
throw on the table or express before we adjourn for the day. We 
certainly appreciate everyone being very patient, not taking 
any breaks and kind of sitting through a lot of very good 
presentations and a lot of good scenarios that educate all of 
us in terms of what we're faced with. Is there anybody that 
wants to say anything before we begin to bring this to a close?
    Steve. I noticed that throughout this draft legislation 
that the word tribal is, with a few exceptions, is always lower 
case, and the word State is upper case, capital S on State, 
small t on tribal. It seems to me that's actually a very 
significant semantic difference. It may seem very 
insignificant, but there's a State department position paper 
from 1987 in which they actually went to the length of lower 
casing the word Indian, even though that is actually a proper 
noun, and as we all know, always capitalized according to the 
ordinary rules of English grammar. But they lower cased it, 
even when they quoted directly out of the Handbook on Federal 
Indian Law.
    So there's something going on there in terms of what 
they're doing with their language in this report. It's 
important to look at what may seem like a really small, 
insignificant thing. But it could have very significant 
    Mr. Trudell. Jackie.
    Jackie. I just wanted to invite everyone, last week, I know 
it was mentioned several times during the meeting today, but 
last week NCAI held a meeting in Portland to talk about 
[inaudible] one of the three meetings we held that day. And 
homeland security was discussed in great detail. We have some 
briefing papers, some talking points, we have some press 
releases, and any of those materials are available to you. 
We'll also have some copies of the press packets tomorrow at 
the hearing. As you go to educate your community and your 
council and take the message back so tribes can work on this 
issue with your State representatives, and your Congressional 
delegations, you do have, like I said, the talking points and 
some background papers that may be helpful.
    In addition to that, I have a request. That is, we've been 
putting together language, some amendments to propose to 
Senator Inouye, have given him the copies of the amendments 
that were discussed last week. Here today you heard some 
wonderful ideas, some additional concerns that came out from 
Indian country that need to be addressed. I would encourage 
you, as you look at this language, that if you would cc us or 
send it to us, we can add it to the list of things that are 
being developed so we can share it with all of Indian country 
to keep us united on the same page and helping us, supporting 
others. Because one thing that wasn't talked a lot about today 
was the struggle that I know Senator Inouye's staff has already 
come up against, the opposition to the amendments. That is some 
of the anti-Indian groups and other groups who are very 
concerned and have voiced early concerns.
    So we need to make sure that as we move forward with this 
issue, we stay together. But we really are educating, through 
the governmental responsibility that you as tribal leaders fill 
a responsibility for and a willingness to be accountable for. 
Continue to target from that direction.
    If you need any more information, we'll be here. Thank you.
    Mr. Trudell. To bring this meeting to a close, Darrell 
Hillaire, would you offer a closing prayer? While he is coming 
up here, let me express our thank yous to Jamestown S'Klallam, 
Sequon, Viejas, Alaska Native Health Board, Mohegan, Salt 
River, NCAI, and Prairie Island Tribal Community for their 
support for this meeting. Thank them for the MREs, the meals 
ready to eat. [Laughter.]
    At this time, Darrell.
    Mr. Hillaire. [Pray sung in native tongue.]
    Mr. Trudell. Thank you, and good luck tomorrow.
    [Whereupon, at 5:05 p.m., the Tribal Leaders Forum was